[Closed] 2015-16 rugby, world cup year

Because the only other options are Hook and Morgan or Anscombe who is injured and Patchel who Gatland doesntcseem to like.

Welsh teams have lots of previous form in putting the worst choice player on the pitch. Politics normally but I'm not sure why in the case of Priestland.

(Going back years Aled Williams, Swansea no 10, was extremely talented but never picked by Wales in position - he was played on the wing in one game iirc. The rumour was that he'd shagged Bob Norster's sister, wife, dog, whatever. It was such a widespread rumour that he was even asked about it on TV after he'd retired, to much amusement because he was aware if it. He denied it. 😆 )

anagallis_arvensis - Member

You've got to play both your 7s against England - surely?

Why?

To win.

Brian Moore tells it like it is:

It must rankle with Cipriani and others, whatever they say in public, that the selection parameters of experience, promise, performance in training, opportunity to state a case, loyalty and so on are highlighted or downplayed according to each player.

Nowhere is this more apparent than in the case of recent union convert, Sam Burgess. His experience and achievements in League are outstanding and are evidence of character and talent. They have limited relevance to union until they are backed by solid performances at all levels in his new code.

Burgess’s case remains one of hope and promise on the field; none of it is public.
To those who say he brings something different or special, you have to ask what is it and when will we see it? Presently there is not one game to which you can refer that supports any of the claims made. There is no Burgess performance which strongly hints, let alone proves, that he is egregiously better than many other players available.

Perhaps the most contentious of all the claims made for Burgess is his presence and its effect on the squad. If you have not played at Test level and, more importantly, not had tournament experience, you cannot appreciate how much difference one player can make, positively or negatively.

Even if you have, you cannot definitively know what Burgess brings to this squad because you haven’t seen and experienced it. If it is as important as made out then it might justify selection but if he is not a starting Test player then the case for his direct affect on the team is weakened.

What nobody should pretend is that his selection is not a gamble, the extent and wisdom of which can only be decided later.
This leads to the legitimate question of why the gamble had to be made now, without waiting for Burgess to furnish proof of his union credentials?

anagallis_arvensis - Member
You've got to play both your 7s against England - surely?

Why?

To win.

How would that help?

How would that help?

Well it helped when you thrashed us 30-3 at the Millenium.

No you got thrashed then because the front 5 mangled yours. The question is I suppose is what you lose by having Warburton at 6 made up for by the "extra" Tips does or by Warburton at 6 being better than lydiate. Gatlands game plan is built around physicality so Warburton is better than Tips at 7 and Lydiate had a good game v ireland. Tips extra wide linking is not that much of a help in Gatland ball with our Big straight running backs. If we.had a backline like Aus it might work but we dont. Tips is a damn good back up and if Lydiate or Warburton (or Not Toby for that matter) got broke he would come in and do a job or he is a very good impact sub of the bench.

Yeah all good points but Tips seems too good to be on the bench and England seem better equipped to deal with Lydiate/Warburton than they would be to deal with Tipuric/Warburton.

You might be right but Gatlandball is built on massive defence and massive defencex10 will be needed at Twickenham. Tips can come on later if we need to chase.

England seem better equipped to deal with Lydiate/Warburton than they would be to deal with Tipuric/Warburton

I think that is one of those cases where what looks easy to deal with on TV is far from easy if you are in the thick of the action. It's a bit like saying Roberts doesn't do alot, just runs in to contact and is easy to tackle. I sure as heck wouldn't want to have to deal with him and you can guarantee the fatigue of tackling him and the other big runners non-stop and the subsequent gaps that might appear in the next phases is worth something more than first meets the eye.

I think Roberts is one of the reasons Burgess is included. Strong defence and a good organiser.

I think Roberts is one of the reasons Burgess is included. Strong defence and a good organiser.

Who Burgess? Is he? He puts the odd big hit in yeah, but you expect that of a bloke that is bigger than almost everyone else. Good organiser though......he really isn't.....he's out of position frequently in the centres in defence for starters.

Good organiser though......he really isn't.....he's out of position frequently in the centres in defence for starters.

^^This^^

Which means that even if he does manage to stop Doctor Desperate Dan*, the good doctor can just offload to someone running at the gap where Burgess [i]should[/i] have been.

*Admit it, you've never seen them in the same room. 🙂

I think Roberts is one of the reasons Burgess is included. Strong defence and a good organiser.

Is Lancasters theory perhaps, not yet realised.

As a bit of light relief, I see that England have a new star in the making for this game;

[img] [/img]

🙂

Given that Dion Dublin managed to break his neck running into someones chest in a footy match, I'm not overly hopeful of his surviving a rugby match!

Loving that Martin Offiah is included as a celeb too 😆

Loving that Martin Offiah is included as a celeb too

Well, the rest of the ex-pros were rugby players, you see.

😉

Louie Spence? My wife wants to get BT Sport now.

Possible Ireland World Cup squad:

Props: Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Mike Ross, Nathan White, Tadhg Furlong
Hookers: Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Richardt Strauss
Locks: Paul O’Connell, Devin Toner, Iain Henderson, Donnacha Ryan
Back rows: Jamie Heaslip, Sean O’Brien, Peter O’Mahony, Chris Henry, Jordi Murphy
Halfbacks: Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan, Johnny Sexton, Ian Madigan, Paddy Jackson
Centres: Robbie Henshaw, Darren Cave, Jared Payne.
Outside backs: Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe, Simon Zebo, Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald, Dave Kearney.

Happy with that.
Feel a bit for Marty Moore and Andrew Trimble, their injuries look to have held them back. 🙁
Tadhg Furlong must be buzzing. Good young prop who's not let Leinster down when needed.
And Darren Cave covering centres looks a stronger group than most predictions.

[i][s]possible[/s] confirmed squad[/i]

Is Chris Henry back playing now? I think Ireland really need someone like him or SOB to be in form. Likewise if Sexton can get some form and the props find a brain cell to share between them then the squad looks pretty strong

As another light distraction, [url= http://www.rugbydump.com/2015/08/4530/friday-funnies-bollywoods-violently-dramatic-take-on-rugby ]this funny rugby film clip[/url] popped up on Rugbydump 😆

That's the film that [i]Invictus[/i] should have been!

Since he seems to divide opinion here, you may enjoy the analysis on Tipuric v Ireland on [url= http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/wales-countries/analysis-justin-tipuric-confounds-breakdown-doubters-47797 ]Rugby World[/url]

Tadhg Furlong must be buzzing

AWJ's knee still is following his late tackle.

Indeed, that wasn't great. Very late

Vern Cotter can suck my boabie.

What does Barclay have to do, apart from find a few kiwi grandparents?

England: Mike Brown (Harlequins); Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby); George Ford (Bath Rugby), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers); Joe Marler (Harlequins), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Geoff Parling, Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), Chris Robshaw (capt, Harlequins), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby).

Replacements: Jamie George (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby).

So is that the first choice selection apart from Launchbury for Parling and B Vunipola for Morgan?

Going to need a big ****ing reinforced bench for that lot!

Yup. Expect Billy V on for impact and - if we are winning - Burgess later with f'real to kick. Really good to see Barrit play in his club position with JJ outside and neither positioned stupidly. The Welsh shoved the Irish around a fair bit last week and it looks as though well do the same.

Let's pray we win is and can make a positive statement....

So is that the first choice selection apart from Launchbury for Parling and B Vunipola for Morgan?

... and of course Burgess starting too in the first choice 15 😉

Controversial Scottish squad selection. Barclay and Harley very unlucky to miss out imo.

Forwards (17):

Hookers: Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors), Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby). Props: Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby), Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors), Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors), Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby), Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons). Locks: Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby), Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Castres), Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors). Back-rowers: David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby), John Hardie (Unattached), Josh Strauss (Glasgow Warriors), Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan), Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors).

Backs (14):

Back three: Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors), Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors), Sean Maitland (London Irish), Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors), Tim Visser (Harlequins). Centres: Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors). Fly-halves: Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors), Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors). Scrum-halves: Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby), Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester), Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors).

And Cowan! Strokosch is past it,Strauss has never played and can't yet and Swinson has been broken. Add in Hardie,who will be a find...But unlike Barclay is unproven. What is the point of being a young player here?

Cotter must really rate Hardie. Very surprised both Barclay and Cowan missed out. Still, they have one more genuine openside than England do.

I'd have had Big Jim Hamilton in for Swinson - for the comedy value he provides if nothing else..... 😉

I think it is that comedy value that has cost him...Swinson plays the same role,but is a bit delicate. Not as if taller Gray is a wee shrinking violet these days either.

I am going to type something I never thought I would...

[b]Scotland have a really good set of backs there[/b]

AWJ's knee still is following his late tackle.

That was late, I agree. Is AWJ arse ok though? Henderson fairly set him back on it 😀

Reasonably happy with the Ire squad but gutted for Trimble, I suppose they must have thought he hadn't had enough game time. I still think he offers a different dimension and greater physicality than Earls or Fitzg.

Hopefully the Wales game was our poor performance. The backrow esp Murphy were really poor, made Tips look good IMO. The pack against Eng is likely to be much stronger with Best, Toner, Ross and SOB back.

Can't believe Scotland aren't taking Cowan, he's a great player

duckman - Member

I am going to type something I never thought I would...

Scotland have a really good set of backs there

Indeed.

Plus Sean Lamont..... 😉

That was late, I agree. Is AWJ arse ok though? Henderson fairly set him back on it

His arse is fine, his knee is ****ed. Wont make the first game and given the fact we have 5 locks including Dom Day in the squad I'm very worried that he wont make it at all.

Maybe someone can enlighten me or possibly I have the wrong end of the stick but has the Springbok squad been chosen with a minimum 30% non-white quotient for political reasons?

Kolisi in over Brussouw and Paige over any number of other Scrum Halves for example.

Surely positive discrimination in favour of non-whites is as wrong as discrimination against them.

SA obviously has to reform its rugby system to get more blacks into the higher levels but surely they should get there on merit?

Kolisi in over Brussouw

How good/bad is Kolisi in your opinion?

Maybe someone can enlighten me or possibly I have the wrong end of the stick but has the Springbok squad been chosen with a minimum 30% non-white quotient for political reasons?

How good/bad is Kolisi in your opinion?

TBH I don't really have one as I haven't seen too much of him. He had a great debut against Scotland and certainly offers more in the lineout than Brussouw or others.

He certainly looks one for the future but seemed a surprise to me that Brussouw got left out although many feel he's no longer as effective as he was.

It was more that he and Paige were being held up by many as only being in to satisfy the quota. The quota is surely unfair on the black players too as people will doubt whether they've been selected on merit - even if they have.

How good/bad is Kolisi in your opinion?

Kolisi is above average as a Superrugby level player. Struggled with form and injuries this year, and certainly not up to scratch at the moment as an international. Defnitely in as a quota player, as Brussouw has been playing some of the rugby of his life.

What the politicians pushing the whole quota thing in SA don't realise is that it's not a racial thing, it's a cultural thing. Afrikaners are passionate about their rugby, and by a freak coincidence are big boys too. South African blacks traditionally play / follow football. The few black rugby players are generally from privileged backgrounds, hence their exposure to rugby.

All companies in SA have to fulfil racial quotas - not always easy IME - and sport is simply mirroring that.

Lost of noise on the issue at the moment but hope talks of not allowing them to travel will disappearx. SH sides are more entertaining to watch at the moment.

The few black rugby players are generally from privileged backgrounds, hence their exposure to rugby.

What the politicians pushing the whole quota thing in SA don't realise is that it's not a racial thing, it's a cultural thing. Afrikaners are passionate about their rugby, and by a freak coincidence are big boys too. South African blacks traditionally play / follow football. The few black rugby players are generally from privileged backgrounds, hence their exposure to rugby.

I typed a long reply to this - several in fact - and deleted them all simply because this sums it up....

That's the sort of crap that white south Africans have been spouting forever to justify their racism.

I would suggest that the government starts there rather than negatively impacting on their most successful sports team just because they can.

Perhaps the quotas are being imposed because this development hasn't been done voluntarily?

Ire reported to be fielding full strength side, apart from Healy, for Saturday.

R Kearney; T Bowe, R Henshaw, J Payne, S Zebo; J Sexton, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best, M Ross; D Toner, P O'Connell (capt); P O'Mahony, S O'Brien, J Heaslip.

Perhaps the quotas are being imposed because this development hasn't been done voluntarily?

Going to watch Georgia v's Japan on Saturday at Kingsholm, I think I shall support Japan.

Big game for both ire and england after their defeats last week. COME ON IRELAND!!!!

Ire reported to be fielding full strength side, apart from Healy, for Saturday.

Excellent, a proper test unlike the weaker side Wales played. I'm pretty confident we'll win it tbh. *runs away*

SARU can't make schools teach rugby.

They can go into schools, arrange summer camps, get the community interested in rugby. Maybe they do this already and the black communities just ignore their efforts?

The Ospreys seem to be in my local school every few weeks.

Edit : I've just done some googling and within two pages there are reports of the Ospreys visiting the local hospital and a Gower school. I did the same search for the Bulls, Griquas and the Sharks and found that the Bulls visited a car plant. Some good community work there.

Ire team confirmed. Got the Kearney brothers wrong, excited to see Zebo at full back. Should be a good game.

15. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Jared Payne (Ulster)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
11. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
10. Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)

1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
5. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster) (capt)
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

Replacements:

16. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
17. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
18. Nathan White (Connacht)
19. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
20. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
23. Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)

Maybe they do this already and the black communities just ignore their efforts?

I toured SA in 1997 and even back then as part of the tour the SARU made sure that a third of our matches were played in 'development zones,' townships to you and me. It was a great experience but football is the preferred sport.

I think the problem is government interfering in sport, they would be best to leave it to the union.

excited to see Zebo at full back

I don't think he'd suit most international sides but Ireland's model seems to be for a running fullback so could do well

Ireland's model seems to be for a running fullback so could do well

Excuse me? Ireland kick more than most.

As a team yes, but Kearney in particular seems to run the ball back more than the average FB, even from deep when there is all the time in the world for a well placed kick. Zebo wouldn't be such a departure from this and probably do the same sort of thing pretty well too. Sure Kearney is partial to the odd high ball as is Ireland's way, but he definitely does run the ball a heck of a lot

Jarrod Hayne still doing well in nfl.
[img] [/img]

That cornerback got nailed! A lot of RBs will step out over the sideline at that point, especially in preseason - but not Hayne.

Sounds like he has a good chance of making the 49ers roster by all accounts.

So I am posting this even though it makes us look ridiculous, what where they thinking ? England "send off" concert at the O2 with headline act "Take That". billboards up around London. That will strike fear into the opposition, I mean we are not even going anywhere it's a home tourmament 😳

[img] [/img]

TBH sll of that ^^ going on is a bit embarrassing...

Not least because Burrell isn't even in the squad....

Oh yes, I hadn't noticed!

Wrecker just seen Bristol have Gav on the bench this weekend... not too late for him to replace Morgan in the Wales squad is it?

I'd sooner you had neither!

Watching Ulster Ospreys and BBC NI had a piece about the Nevin Spence centre opened recently at Ravenhill. Can't believe it's three years since he died.

Tragic, was the guy who went in thecslurry tank wasnt it. ****ing awful.

Harsh yellow card, shite game I've stopped watching.

Yes that's the one. Poor game, hope for better viewing today.

Seems odd that Trimble was left out of the Ireland squad when you have plodders like Karney on the wing. Him, his brother and Earls arent exactly a scary back 3. Bowe is obviously very good but Zebo hasnt ever really kicked on.

There were some interesting performances in the second half. Brendan Leonard looked sharp, Rory Thornton and Dan Baker were good for the Ospreys, and the Ulster 12 and Trimble looked good. Sam Davies isn't good enough when he's playing outside a non-world class scrum half. (A bit like his father, only ever looked good when the players inside him were good.)

agreed about those 3 looking good. Leonard especially. Sam Davies is worth sticking with IMO, if he cuts out the errors he could be very good. Remember everyone wrote off Biggar when he was that age. Davies took the ball to the line and put some good passes to Ben John (another coming on well). Real shame for Beck he should be a welsh regular and the replacement for Henson of a passing centre with a bit of size too but has been blighted by injuries.

Yeah, I agree about Davies - they need to stick with him BUTTTTT not for too much longer. I find that if a player doesn't fulfil his promise within a couple of seasons they turn into James Hook. 😆

Beck - make a great break then take 2 months out..

WRT that picture above, I'm guessing it's not aimed at rugby fans, but trying to use the home WC to broaden the interest in rugby. Not my cup if tea, but I'm not the target audience.

Now, trying desperately to get my sky go password here in Toronto before the match starts!!

Davies is only about 21 isnt he? Has a few more years to improve. Biggar was 23 ish before he came good.

Well that's not a bad start!! I think our line out will be under a lot of pressure today.

Ireland have been very disappointing in the first half. Hope Murray is ok.

England looked a bit tired at the end, a bit of a worry.

I think both sides are still deep in hard training, so not surprised by that.