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Christopher!
The Race Relations Act is 40 years old this year. It ought to be pretty clear which side of the line "gypsy" is on by now.
IDGAF what it says.
IDGAF what it says.
I bet Joe Marler does....
IDGAF what it says
Always good to have discussions with a mindset like this 😆
IDGAF what it says.
Luckily for the rest of society, your opinion is entirely irrelevant. Wrong, too.
calling someone gypsy boy is not a ethnic slur, but is seen as controversial.
if Marler had called him pikey boy, he would be in trouble.
calling someone gypsy boy is not a ethnic slur, but is seen as controversial.
Both controversial and - given the context - evidently also an ethnic slur (both in fact and also in law for the last 40 years).
I'm worried this is a difficult concept, not least because this was broadcast live on national TV.
Had AWJones said hey black boy to Itoje I'd think he would deserve a rest.
https://twitter.com/Tyson_Fury?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
You cannot compare actual racism with pretend racism. It's a travesty that this type of thing, whilst bad form, has been lumped into the racism category.
England have Nigel Owens next week, so hopefully not a referee affected outcome
That's a bit of a low blow, isn't it?
*Pointles post about Joe Marler as its been pointed out already he's been cited* 😳
You cannot compare actual racism with pretend racism.
You'll have to expand on this for me. Dont get your point.
You cannot compare actual racism with pretend racism. It's a travesty that this type of thing, whilst bad form, has been lumped into the racism category.
[url= http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/Gypsy-refused-entry-Llanelli-clubs-going/story-25031003-detail/story.html ]You seem to have all the answers. Can you help me out with this one?[/url]
Ah well seems like nearly every copper I've ever met is breaking The Race Relations Act with the use of "pikey" or "gypo"then.
From OMITN's ink:
[b] Leighton Price, who is a relative of Wales rugby international and Scarlets prop Samson Lee, said he was proud of the player’s start against New Zealand and had gone for drinks to celebrate.
The 31-year-old and his wife Rebbecca, aged 34, have called for an end to discrimination of gypsies.
She said: “Leighton only goes out once or twice a year. He went to one pub and he was on the way in and the bouncers stopped him — they said, ‘you can’t come in, you’re a gypsy’.
[/b]
How would the doorstaff have known his background?
I would imagine that being a gypsy, he's a well known troublemaker and thief.
A night out in Llanelli is eye opening, Lee's family have a certain "reputation" according to a friend who lives there.
Capt. Sasquatch - you've lost me?!?!
My point is the ref in the ire/Fra game let France illegally smash Ireland, and it affected the outcome, whereas I believe Owens is too good a ref to let that happen, and the best team will win.
I'd like to hear a full transcript of what Marler said.
I'm assuming that Lee is from a Gypsy family?
If Marler had said "cmon Welsh boy" would that have been racist.
Is the term "gypsy" considered racist? Honest question. I fully agree that being in the public eye, and their words broadcast to millions, the right thing has to be seen to be done. Maybe it's time for. The ref link to be edited before broadcasting?
Maybe it's time for. The ref link to be edited before broadcasting?
Or maybe thicko props should think before speaking?
The fact he IS a thick prop probably stops that!!
Duct tape before the game?
I'm assuming that Lee is from a Gypsy family?
Didn't you see his Bebo page? 🙂
Or maybe thicko props should think before speaking?
I always thought Marler did a good job of pretending to be thick but as I said before, it looks like he's been double bluffing all along.
Blaming being knocked out of the RWC for a late tackle is one of my favs
I'm assuming that Lee is from a Gypsy family?
Famously so - google ferrets and 61 cousins.
If Marler had said "cmon Welsh boy" would that have been racist.
No. Not in law, and being Welsh is not considered to be part of a separate ethnic or racial group.
Is the term "gypsy" considered racist? Honest question. I fully agree that being in the public eye, and their words broadcast to millions, the right thing has to be seen to be done. Maybe it's time for. The ref link to be edited before broadcasting?
Yes. It's been outloawed for 40 years (Race Relations Act 1976).
Interesting point on ref link - I think one of the things about rugby is that swearing on the pitch is expressly forbidden (and reffed against), so we shouldn't run the obvious risks that football and cricket suffer. And ordinarily we don't.
Consequently this is a pretty rare thing and ought to be adjudicated against the normal high standards of (verbal) conduct.
So, having followed this all day, I've come to the conclusion that:
Poking the opposition in the chest and calling him a "Welsh/English/Scottish/Irish Prick" is fine.
Calling them a "black/white/Asian/gay/gypsy prick" isn't.
I imagine the former happens all the time, and I doubt Marler is clever enough to differentiate. I think he will soon find out though.
At least we won't have 2 pages on loose heads hinging next week! 😀
Poking the opposition in the chest and calling him a "Welsh/English/Scottish/Irish Prick" is fine.
I think a ref might have something to say on the matter if he felt that it was being verbally abusive. The advent of the ref-mic is giving the IRB something over which to scratch its head. We want ever closer access to the game (and the IRB want us to have it...heaven forbid what we'd hear if there was a ref-mic in football 😀 ) meaning new standards have to be set and maintained by players and referees rather than taking the silly "it was ever thus" attitude. If that means players playing at the top level (rather than say, no-name hookers lamenting the days of brutal amateurism), have to moderate their language then so be it.
(Btw, "Irish" would have to be treated differently I'm afraid. 🙂 )
I thought Marler had grown up a bit; he used to get caught ip a lot in lots of niggle and off the ball stuff. He clearly hasn't.
I wonder if Alex Waller will be called up as a replacement...it doesn't look good for him either way with a citing and an investigation for verbal abuse. I'm surprised no one has been called up yet with only a few days until France. Jones has said that he's acting as if he's free to play but I'll be really surprised if he is.
More selective quoting DD, deary me but your correct "it was ever thus"...
....note that the aforementioned hooker was the victim of the verbal abuse based on nationality not the perpetrator.
teamhurtmore - Member
No it's not - and he will get 4 weeks, that clear.Verbal abuse of a player based on religion, race, colour, national or ethnic origin, sexual orientation or otherwise carries a minimum sanction of a four-week suspension.
depends on the sensitivity of the recipientWe're in 2016 right? And you're still saying this?
Yes for the basic reason that this is how the law stands - if someone is offended by the type of comment under questions then its pretty straight forward - it doesn't matter on the motives of the perpetrator - hence my comments on what is (or at least should be) clear. So as above, it depends on the sensitivity of the recipient on the rugby field and in the workplace.
I realise this is the other code, but seriously ouch.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/35801847/rugby-players-penis-almost-torn-off-in-tackle ]sfw bbc link [/url]
So are we having THM in a discussion of what is racial abuse. Reminds of that song by Alanis Whatserhername
No because we agree on what is and what isn't -as do the RUs and common law - it really is simple
They tried microphones in cricket and had to stop as the language and abuse was so bad. I don't condone the use of the term "gypsy" but this is daft, players are always trying to wind each other up.
No because we agree on what is and what isn't -as do the RUs and common law - it really is simple
So despite the protestations of duckman (and others) at you constantly referring to Scots as "sweaties" and your repeatedly defence of it not being racist (and subsequent attempts at sneaking in various references to "sweat", "sweating" etc), because duckie felt that it was, then it was.
We're clear on that then.
players are always trying to wind each other up.
Indeed. Apparently, it was ever thus.
don't condone the use of the term "gypsy" but this is daft, players are always trying to wind each other up.
Yeah they should stick the old fashioned ways like elbowing a prone player and rubbing his head in the dirt whilst cheering a try..oh hang on!
Just remeber folks, England won the (meaningless post rwc) 6N with a match to spare. Hence maximum effort required to generate a controversy to distract from fact other teams did not.
Only interest left is whether a decent French team / effort appears out of nowhere next weekend. Not impossible.
For other totally meaningless and irrelevant statisics I worked out today this is the first year in 24 I have not seen live at least one 6N game home or away. Only the third year in 30 also.
Never mind, it's only 144 weeks of having to think back through so only just under three years for lots of rugby fans.
I didn't think there was much in either the Marler forearm or the Francis nose tweak - I've certainly given and received much worse in my playing days...
The Marler name calling was footballerish, has no place in rugby and is therefore by far the worst crime imo.
Anyway on a lighter note we've all done this haven't we?
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/35292422/rugby-player-dives-over-wrong-line-celebrates-and-is-pummelled-by-opposition ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/35292422/rugby-player-dives-over-wrong-line-celebrates-and-is-pummelled-by-opposition[/url]
Well DD you see in law (see above) the distinction between nation and race is clear, so no, any colloquial reference to a nation cannot be racist by defintion. Indeed in the sporting context there is precedent with rulings in Aus and NZ re the use of poms for the English. Of course, people use the race card to exaggerate a point (or make one when it doesn't exist). But with regard our mutual friend, he was offended and got the result he wanted - so the point is proven again. It depends on the person who is aggrieved - simple.
Anyway back to the rugby, Jambas very true. It must be difficult to swallow having a poor English side win the championship with a match to spare. And for 12 and 15 to play well too!!! Oh and 2 wasn't bad either!!M
It must be difficult to swallow having a poor English side win the championship with a match to spare.
Not really. England have been the best team of the tournament. I don't think anyone here will disagree with that. True, it feels a bit strange that this could be the route to their first Grand Slam for ages as the expectations were very low from the fans but of all the competition they are the ones most deserving if any. What is hard to swallow is how more sh1t our own teams have been and how dire most of the games have been 😳
Hence the distraction tactics?!? 😉
Dire games ? Ok technically lacking on many occasion esp v SH but still entertaining and going down to the wire. Lots of fun. Don't understand all the angst.
Don't understand all the angst.
Well Wales have played shit throughout and more annoyingly have not even appeared to try and move their game on. The only positive has been Rob Evans holding his own.
Hoping to see Ken Owens and Moriarty start v Italy would also like to see Ickle Morgan on the wing but its not going to happen.
Who is maximising the controversy? The 'English' papers reporting it at great length or the 6 nations and possibly the RFU investigating it?
Sadly scamper, with the increasing popularity of rugby, the mainstream wendyball sports writers have now got involved. They love a good scandal far more than they love a good match.
But with regard our mutual friend, he was offended and got the result he wanted - so the point is proven again. It depends on the person who is aggrieved - simple.
No actually, here is the truth of the matter again.[b]I realise you and that term are uneasy bedfellows,but I will give it a go[/b]
I and a number of people asked you to stop using the term Sweaties. That is not a term for Scots,despite anything you try to claim on the page past,so your own argument is invalid. Your reply was to use it more BECAUSE it is offensive. Others have pointed that out to you...I did not complain to the mods,they banned you for it all by themselves,guess they need a "sense of humour." The invite to say it to my face when you are up here still stands,you know;when you visit here (and I am sure) refer to every Scot you meet as Sweaty.
A term doesn't need to be officially racist to be offensive or derogatory. Why anybody on here would intentionally be the latter in a sporting discussion is beyond me 🙄
The discussion around the Marler/Lee controversy has been mostly respectful and educational. Name calling is just a failing of intellectual argument I'm afraid - obviously why Marler did it!!!!!
The only people I have heard referred to as "sweaties" are heavy metal fans 😆 the "cool" kids would call them that due to moshing, headbanging or thrashing at gigs and getting, a good sweat on.
The Marler name calling was footballerish, has no place in rugby
That's not the case. There's always been sledging in rugby - it's just that you couldn't hear/see it in the days before multiple cameras/ref-cams/microphones and lip readers.
I remember reading about a young Aussie back row player who made his debut against England in the late 80s and received such a verbal bullying from the likes of Richards, Teague and Dooley that he totally went to pieces.
jambalaya - Member
Just remeber folks, England won the ([u]meaningless post rwc[/u]) 6N
Can't believe this nonsense keeps getting trotted out.
If you're going to determine "meaning" for any 6N tournament around RWCs, this is the only one with any definite material impact on a World Cup.
It's the last time the teams play each other before seeding for the pools of RWC2019 so it's the only one that can influence World Rankings, seedings, and which Pot teams are drawn from for the group stages.
Surprising description after all the furore about Wales, Oz, and England being pooled together last time. But the Japs have tickets to sell , and they'll be released next year as they need to stay ahead of the ticket sales for 2020 Olympics.
It's not been widely reported due to the whinging last time over the early draw, but it's going to be a case of "exceptional circumstances - just one more time" and, personally, expect it before the end of this calendar year.
At present Wales are clinging to 4th place, the last spot in pot 1 with England in 5th. Maybe that Welsh comeback was worth something...
Then Arg6, Ire7, Fra8, Scot9.
This is the interesting bit for me due to how points are earned against other ranked teams.
A France loss against England will not effect their Ranking points as much as an Ireland defeat against Scotland. So effectively, France are staying in the top 8 for now.
But a Scotland win will boost their ranking AND drop Ireland's at the same time so they swap positions. Ireland's year continues with 3 away games in SA and 2 tests against NZ. A big win there would fire them right up the rankings but they could easily come away with nothing from that. Scotland a have Japan tour, but that's another story. They're next in 10th...
Anyway the Ireland Scotland game is effectively a play-off to stay currently in the top eight World Rankings - Pot 2 seedings for RWC 2019.
The last chance they have to take points off each other before dropping into "Pot 3" with only "SH" teams to play.
Oh shit. Seru Rabeni passed away. 37 years old. 😐
Loum - interesting stuff, so we could see NZ/Eng/ire in the same group 😯
Wrecker, just spotted that - sounds like the end of a long illness.
I and a number of people asked you to stop using the term...
Agreed - can we still call Amerkins 'Septics' though? 😆
If they don't understand the rhyming sland can they still be insulted?
There's always been sledging in rugby
Yep, although Teague is a gent, he tried not to break us too badly when brought in as a ringer in a low level cup competition
Seru Rabeni passed away. 37 years old.
🙁
Awful news abot Rabeni
Sad news about Rabeni, Tigers are to have tribute on the big screen and a minutes applause before the sarries game at the weekend and some fans are buying Fiji flags to hold up during this as a tribute.
He was a cracking player and a great bloke, I've some great memories of him playing for Tigers. Sad day. 😥
[url=
the fake tan knocked off[/url]
With apologies to A-A
Liam Williams; Hallam Amos, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North; Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb; Rob Evans, Scott Baldwin, Samson Lee, Bradley Davies, Luke Charteris, Dan Lydiate (capt), Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau.
Replacements: Ken Owens, Gethin Jenkins, Tomas Francis/Aaron Jarvis, Jake Ball, Ross Moriarty, Gareth Davies, Rhys Priestland, Gareth Anscombe.
From bbc.co.uk
With apologies to A-A
I was going to post that!!
Was just readings gussets thoughts about the england wales game. Reminds me of something that really aanoys me about commentators...Wales are not trying to kick to touch ffs. Havent done so for years. Its not poor kicking, you could argue its poor tic tacs but dont blame the kicker!
Cannot understand how Baldwin is picked over Owens.
Even from penalties when they get the throw? They missed at least one of those.
On the subject of hookers AA, what has happened to Hibbard? Just totally out of form? Not seen too much of him other than the highlights on ITV4....gone from first choice Lion to not in the international squad in 3 years! Tom Youngs has enjoyed a similar fall from grace too!
Hibbard has been immense for Glaws(my English team) this year,getting on a wee bit though.
Tom Youngs has enjoyed a similar fall from grace too!
The difference being - Tom Youngs was shite!
Hibbard is a cult hero at Gloucester and as Duckman says been playing well.
37 is no age at all, very sad news.
Hibbard played shit and then buggered off to Gloucester mid camp. Pissed on his chips
loum - MemberBut the Japs have tickets to sell
Oooh! Don't know if you can say that? Think it has to "Japanese" doesn't it?
Tssk tssk! 🙄
Apologies to all our Japanese contributors for what I'm sure was an unintentional slur.
namastebuzz - MemberOooh! Don't know if you can say that? Think it has to "Japanese" doesn't it?
But its ok to demean and belittle us as a nation by calling us Scots? Racialist!
But its ok to demean and belittle us as a nation by calling us Scots? Racialist!
I thought I'd demeaned and belittled your nation by referring to you as "Jocks" rather than "Scots"? 😉
Anyway a big thanks to the nation who play in dark blue for handing us the title a week early.
Anyway a big thanks to the nation who play in dark blue for handing us the title a week early.
France.
France.
😆
Pissed on his [b]Welsh[/b] chips
His Glaws chips are doing fine thanks 😀
We like uncompromising hookers here in Gloucester 😉
In the same way T Youngs is a cult hero at Tigers. I imagine Cockerill is glad he's not in the England setup.
@ namastebuzz - that sledging was at Scott gouly- they called him "girlie" all game. Pretty imaginative ....... Not
that sledging was at Scott gouly- they called him "girlie" all game.
Well the poor fella must've been terribly sensitive.....
You can see why he was upset, when that well known after dinner raconteur and wit Wade Dooley is giving you dogs abuse,not being able to put him down with a wittier response must really create self doubt.
8 weeks for Francis. Odd not much for a gouge
On the high end for a nose tweak, though.
that well known after dinner raconteur and wit Wade Dooley
Although he (the beat copper) did come up with the great line after Paul Ackford (the Inspector) had been knocked out by that Frederico Mendez punch at Twickenham in 1990:
"You can tell which one of us sits behind a f***ing desk!"
Entry point 12 weeks. Judged at less serious end for type of incident.