[Closed] 2015-16 rugby, world cup year

England were very lucky but did beat a very very understrength ireland at home. You must be proud.

Wrecker happy to take the charity bet but I'm not sure I expect wales to do well. Too many players short of form and match fitness. Loopy Liam, North, Jiffy Junior, Lydiate, Warburton etc and Biggar looks like what he is a player playing on one leg

21-10 what you where robbed dd ? We should have won by far more

21-10 what you where robbed dd ? We should have won by far more

And there I was thinking you couldn't possibly sound more ridiculous. But you managed it. Well done!

EDIT: If you need the stupidity of your first statement explained, I'm happy to do so. I reckon you know why already though. Or maybe you don't...it wouldn't be a surprise.

England were very lucky but did beat a very very understrength ireland at home.

21-10 what you where robbed dd ? [b]We should have won by far more[/b]

What are the odds on an english red card? 😛

Have we done the Sam Davies disallowed try from the weekend, by the way?

If that was held, my cock's a kipper.

I'd be quite content to see Brown, and indeed Farrell, get thoroughly Blanco'd by Warburton and his mates, during the course of an England win. Something for everyone in that scenario I think.

I am not buying that Schmidt was/is any more disadvantaged than Jones.

To be fair to Ireland, they're missing a lot of key players...SOB, Bowe, Henderson, O'Mahony, Healy (who came on but still doesn't look 100%), Henry, Luke Fitz - The two Os there being key to Ireland's weakness in defence so far this campaign, and our line-out looks a bit shagged - no excuse, you have to play with the squad you have and Ireland did well to stay in touch up till the last ten and it could have been 21-15(7) on 73 mins if VDF's try had been given (again I'm not whinging about it...there was no clear angle no matter how much anybody thought it was or wasn't grounded). McCloskey and Van der Flier look good for the future though. So, as much as I didn't want to see them lose, it was better than I expected before kick-off.

I don't think England are missing those players as much as Ireland are missing theirs - and have much better strength in depth than Ireland at the moment.

If Jones had had that 23 for longer, I reckon they'd have given Ireland a 20-30 point tanking - they missed one or two gilt edged chances when Ireland just had forwards in the line.

I realise it wasn't wrecker who said it, but a statement like "A so-so England were too good for Ireland" is just wilful stupidity or spouting bollocks for a reaction...or perhaps in jamba's case, it's both, I dunno.

England at the moment are in a huge state of flux, whilst they might not be missing as many layers as Ireland, but the fact that the coach has only known them for a few weeks is a pretty big deal.
For me, this team is largely placeholding. Come the aus tour, when we see underhill, Hughes, slade, manu, ewers, and players like brookes and george mature, only then will we see what england will be moving forward.
Great that EJ has been able to bring itoge and clifford in, but it's only the start.

Oh and on Brown, can he be assured of getting his quins shirt back? That Chisholm bloke has been very impressive indeed.

England at the moment are in a huge state of flux,

Wales are too experienced, too slick and too canny.
Farrell and JJ are the least of our worries, get roberts, davies or north running at Ford 5 times, you have 5 tries.
The only hope england have is to smash it up front, but even that is a bit of a stretch.

Discipline could be a deciding factor especially since our back row is weaker. Cant afford to see the Biggar shuffle too much. It hurt us before.

Tuilagi and Ewers return to the England squad for training this week.

Maybe too soon for Manu to play against Wales but you never know....

I also think Wales will deal with Billy V much better than Ireland did. Who, let's face it, didn't deal with him at all. 🙂

I would say its a 70:30 type of game in Englands favour.

As usual I don't agree with you :lol:, I think its much closer, more like 55/45, and if Wales go ahead on the score board, I think it goes more in their favour as England don't currently have the confidence to "know" they can pull it back.

deadlydarcy - Member
I also think Wales will deal with Billy V much better than Ireland did. Who, let's face it, didn't deal with him at all.

I've only one thing to say to you in reply; what er, happens if I neglected to oil the floor you laid in the last two years? 😳

Nothing. Unless you've wrecked it.

Early days, but I agree that EJ is subtly managing a transition phase pretty well. Gradually mixing things up but not abandoning experience completely.

Where does 70:30 come from - Wales are a better team as we are often reminded and they are going to muller our backs with ease. We have a poor 15 too - backs off confrontation unless surrounded by his mates, so imagine how bad he will be under a high ball.

Very close - as before, penalty count will be key.

The Sam Davies non-try.

Thoughts?
https://amp.twimg.com/v/39827627-1289-4381-ad7c-73913b4c5f15

Was ruled out as he was apparently held in the tackle.

Wales are a better team as we are often reminded

Funny, that was not what was being said here just before the world cup. Who is doing this reminding? One lucky win in a close game that was well and truely blown by the england captain and suddenly wales are better. We got humped at twickenham before that and at home. You Englanders are just going too far out of your way to not be too cocky. Havent checked the odds but teckon the bookies will be making England clear favourites.

https://amp.twimg.com/v/39827627-1289-4381-ad7c-73913b4c5f15

Remind me again, who does the Clancy Clown work for? Its a joke league.

All this talk of a coach/ team in transition neglects the (alleged) fact the real coach is still there watching over his boy 😆

England are massive favourites IMO. As a_a says, last time around Wales got lucky with a dodgy selection policy and some bad captaincy. That kind of lightening doesn't strike twice unless EJ picks a front row of Care, Brown and Ford and Robshaw leads the team again.

England have a new head coach but most of the structure stays the same with a few key changes that have all proved to be for the better so far. That England side isn't exactly inexperienced which is the only aspect Wales have any slight advantage in and the gap is closing.

Aside from experience, Wales offer very little besides a solid defense. England made very easy yards against Ireland and as long as the game is in Wales's half Farrell will get plenty of opportunities to do his funny hand signal.

Realistically I think Wales are very unlikely to win but I wouldn't be unhappy to be wrong

Havent checked the odds but teckon the bookies will be making England clear favourites.

https://m.oddschecker.com/m/rugby-union/six-nations/england-v-wales/winner

England odds on favs 1/2, Wales 7/4 ish

does 1/2 mean bet 1 win 2? I don't really know betting.

No bet £2 win £1. ( you do get your stake back though) Otherwise known as odds on favourites Wales odds against outsiders bet 4 win 7

Ah cheers. The welsh are worth a few quid there I reckon. Captsasquatch should be ploughing his money into that!

You Englanders are just going too far out of your way to not be too cocky

We really cant win can we...

Nope. Thems the rules.

DD you were well beaten and the 6N table doesn't lie. Biggest critism of England is we didn't score 35+ points.

Whilst we have home advantage those odds look too optimistic from an England perspective.

DD you were well beaten and the 6N table doesn't lie

The ref did make a massive error at a crucial time in not awarding the irish flankers try. England were well on top for much of the game but failed to putvireland out of the game.

Whilst we have home advantage those odds look too optimistic from an England perspective.

Yeah those bookies know **** all, all of them.

It'll be heavily swayed by the money being bet though.

Yes, whats your point?

But if they wanted to take more money on England they would improve the odds, its not like England are always favourites against Wales because its a bigger country.

England odds are always short of what they would be based on predicted outcomes just to cover the bookies backs against the sheer volume of all the "patriotic" betting.

As I've posted before home advantage is usually a big factor, this time round I'm not sure its enough. Wales have stuttered so far but are very capable of a big performance and imo they'll be much stronger than against France? The game is perfectly set up. I also said the 6N after a RWC is somehwat meaningless, I don't really care how we do results wise its more about rebuilding and establishing a style which can take us to 2019. So I'm not talking England up/down or sideways.

Edited above, post removed.
Spambot turned up last time odds were discussed here.
No point ever arguing over them anyway, if you think they're wrong there's an obvious option.

So you wont be cockahoop if you win the grandslam???? Jambalyafib 😆

nd imo they'll be much stronger than against France?

why Wales have showed nothing more than good defence for years, cant see our game suddenly moving on. Unless we lose against england.

There's only one place where winning is important - it isn't here, it isn't in the press rooms and it isn't in the dressing rooms....

...good to see Cleary talking sense in the Torygraph and partially echoing WG - proper rucking and reduced subs can save the game.

Odd merely reflect weight of money. As the name suggests, bookies are simply managing a book.

jambalaya - Member

DD you were well beaten and the 6N table doesn't lie. Biggest critism of England is we didn't score 35+ points.

How DARE anybody accuse English supporters of being arrogant! Which particular figure of authority told you that on the quiet?

Tbf to jamba, he is one of the 6-weekers-and-once-every-four-years-ers but as remarked earlier, they pay their money (for the car park) and there's no choice but to [s]listen to[/s] hear them (gloat) sometimes.

Anyway, now that Ireland are well out of the running, I can have a whinge about the tournament. 😀

To me, it has turned into this attritional win-at-all-costs tournament where rugby takes a back seat to results; especially results in the first game (or two), often played on cold wet Saturdays or Sundays (I lump Irish rugby in here too, mind, before anyone has a go...). We're not seeing anything that will be worrying the SH are we? Have we accepted that the RWC is a competition we will be attending every four years as a 5th place play-off...with the odd exception here or there? Who's playing the entertaining rugby? Week in, week out, we see sides turn glorious counter-attack opportunities into stodgy pick and drive phases...after which everybody says (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) "If that had been NZ/Australia/SA, that would have been a try..."

Is this just how the tournament is going to be from now on? Of course, we'll all still watch it and enjoy the victories, mourn the losses and talk about it on STW. Winners will gloat. Losers will moan. The sun will rise and the world will turn. The Sponsors will be happy.

Should the tournament be moved to late Spring instead of cold, wet Feb/Mar?

Should we have a special NH rule to have free-kicks [i]only[/i] for scrum infringements so that teams just get the bloody ball in and out as quickly as possible instead of the current spectacle of front rows being congratulated by full-backs after they've duped the ref into giving a penalty against the other side?

Nah DD, I prefer my rule change. Punish the congratulators.

I hope that scrums remain an integral part of the game unlike merely a means to pause and create space - but that's a front row man talking!

But games potentially being won and loss on the guessing game that is scrum penalties in stupid.

I think changing the subs rule (and rucking) are simple solutions. Let's have tired players and gaps, let's see who is fitter etc. It would be more exciting than a game bring won on the basis of some slight technical infringement and a boot from 40 metres or so.

The last thing we want is American Football Shirley?

The last thing we want is American Football Shirley?

I'm a fan of all codes...round ball, oval ball (although don't watch much Aussie Rules or League) and I don't think rugby is in any danger of becoming anything like NFL...which in itself is a marvellous spectacle...so let's be sensible here. 🙂

Before "Time-off" all players would manage the 80 mins wouldn't they? Now (apart from all the time lost to scrums) they really do have to play for 80 mins. There would have to be some kind of allowance for replacing injured players, especially if they're front rows. How long before there's a scandal involving replacing a player that's not "injured", just tired? It's all a bit wooly I think...messing about with subs.

I'd like to see (whisper it...) less men on the field in the first place.

Odd merely reflect weight of money

So bookies dont set the odds to encourage betting in certain directions and the patriotic english bet on england regardless of how they think the game will go? How odd.

DD, yes its been dire. I dont think Wales can play another way though. We have no powerful ball carriers in the pack so we need big backs to punch over the gainline. In the backs we have no ball players. Biggar for all his very fine attributes doesnt havevthe passing game nor is enough of a threat to bring defences onto him. Priestland plays a lot flatter and passes much better but is flakey. Anscombe maybe but he doesnt look anything other than average at 10. All our backs are strike runners with no one to put them in the hole. A ball playing 15 might work to act as a wider play maker but then we lose out by not having 1/2p's solidity in defence. Loopy Liam runs into holes nicely but no one passes to him. Anscombe or Patchel may give us more in attack but judging by Anscombe effort v ireland the defence will be shit. Matt Morgan on the wing given a free role like Shane had must be worth a shot but even then he doesnt have a passing game.
How old are Gavins kids?

Scrums have to stay otherwise you will have 15 a side run and wriggle

Sorting scrums is easy, shoulders above hips, go straight and put the ball down the middle.

Scrum goes down, re set scrum goes down a second time send one fatty from each side to sit down for 10 minutes. Be consistent.

Also get some refs to go and watch scrum practices or speak frankly to ex front row people about the black arts.

Scrum goes down, re set scrum goes down a second time send one fatty from each side to sit down for 10 minutes. Be consistent.

That would be uncontested scrums for most of the game then wouldn't it?

Scrums is easy ref it simply look at binding and early drives but then when one team pushes back the opposition 5m and the scrum disintergrates if the scrum going forward hasnt used it then reset the scrum dont always penalise the losing scrum. Its impossible to stay bound and straight when pushed backwards. The dominant scrum should get front foot ball not a pen.

DD - just reduce the number of subs not the idea entirely. Lets have some potentially tired legs out there.

Not only does the 60 mins auto subbing kill the gaps, it makes for disjointed 2H and a worse spectacle. I disagree with the party line that RU is a 23 man game.

Half the time when the scrum collapses, I had no idea and I was in the middle and either the victim or the culprit!! 😉

How about no foot up and straight feeds!! 😉 At one point Best had struck almost before the bind 😉

I see your point thm, but I reckon that ship has sailed. Can't see it going back to any less than 23 with player welfare being such a concern.

Although thinking back to your NFL comment...I've got it!

SPECIAL TEAMS!!

No just get another two fatties on but the team would be down to 14 for 10 minutes. If you get to the point of red cards then so be it.

I went to watch Exeter play Gloucester and one scrum took nearly 10 minutes, just gets boring and it is meant to be entertainment.

Before "Time-off" all players would manage the 80 mins wouldn't they? Now (apart from all the time lost to scrums) they really do have to play for 80 mins. There would have to be some kind of allowance for replacing injured players, especially if they're front rows

See Steve Thomson not coming back on when Saints were getting mulched a couple of seasons ago as an example of how easy that is to get round.

Also get some refs to go and watch scrum practices or speak frankly to ex front row people about the black arts.

They do, the pro guys work with the academy teams and ex internationals. Doesn't make any difference,half the time the props eating mud don't know how they got there either. If you can solve this,the IRB would be very interested,depowering the hit is an example of trying.I am still on the mailing list and they frequently ask for suggestions. And they do take feedback on board that's why they have changed the catch and [s]offside[/s] drive for next year.

that's why they have changed the catch and offside drive for next year.

😀

c'mon you cant leave us dangling - what is the proposal?

Refs talk to players and vice versa - that has been good and the depowered contact has been partially successful IME. But WB waiting for another 5 mins for the ball to go in was ridiculous.

As a hooker, working our the ref was always key. Did he enforce straight throws (not in Ire v Enga), foot up, feeding, etc. Work that out and then see what you can get away with - my parents always noted the times refs commented on the #2 being a crafty bugger!! 😉

It was meant to be introduced this year. I suspect it was written by a Gregor Townsend after the first game against Saints as they caught and drove all day.

http://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=9&guideline=9
In essence it is the ball that has to move to the back,not the player. I would assume 17...whatever...about offside will also be used to reinforce this (you used to get instructions on which law was to be hot that month) I used to tell captains what the focus was in the pre match instructions.

Didn't even realise that the player with the ball was allowed to slip to the back of a maul these days any way. We always practiced passing the ball to the back of mauls, from schoolboy rugby to packing it in 5 years ago.

So the ball should go back not the player, what about players joining ahead of the ball?
Can you get all this bought in before wales play england please?

Seeing as we are stuck with Winter Rugby, I'd like to see a proliferation of synthetic pitches. That should encourage more positive rugby.

Should the tournament be moved to late Spring instead of cold, wet Feb/Mar?

I like the danger of England wanting a Grand Slam and then getting hit by rubbish weather in Edinburgh...it helps prepare the kids for a lifetime of disappointment

A.A,it was meant to be in from last August. It maybe seems a wee thing,but far,far, more devious rugby brains than ours will be working out both how to use it to disrupt AND how to keep the catch and drive...

Right I'm going to be brave....

I've seen mention that the ref got it wrong for the Irish flankers try but I didn't see evidence that he grounded it even though he probably did. You can't ref on probabilities otherwise pointless having TMO.
I've seen no mention of the Hartley try incident which seemed strange. I do t think he scored but I also don't think it was a double movement, I know we have a ref here be interested to hear his opinion of both.

Bear - I agree with you on both, but would also be interested in a refs opinion. The Irish fans I was with thought Hartley had scored.

Again, not whinging, and I imagine Poite didn't see this particular image or angle, or anything clear and whatever kind of game he had, Ireland had lots to thank him for in the first half.
[img] [/img]

Dunno...maybe that's not the ball... 🙂

EDIT: "That's a try" not added by me.

In the days before TMO they would both hve been tries.

You can't ref on probabilities

Yes you can otherwise every try would go to the tmo. Any reason not tovawardvthe try? No. Its a try then. Nigel Owens would have given it.

I can't find any video anywhere of Hartley's "double-movement". Anything in your gif mine a_a?

Skysports write up says he was "[i]unfairly penalised[/i]" though, so I'd imagine that settles it for most readers. 🙂

Yes I found it curious that all the reports focussed on "in the days before TMO..." that Ireland would have scored whilst conveniently forgetting Hartley would have scored too (and given that spear tackles were allowed The Were-rabbit wouldn't have been binned either)

Jeez.
[img] ?oh=6ce88ddecd73af22cf84e4e60814f3ff&oe=57673B44[/img]

Hang on, here it is...

Think the various emphasis is on Hartley's not being awarded for not being grounded...maybe he was pushed across the line by others, but he was definitely down and stopped before the grounding. Arguable for sure.

Yes I found it curious that all the reports focussed on "in the days before TMO..."

I hadn't heard any of this, and only found that image today. We play in the era of the TMO these days, and sometimes the ref has to ask the, erm, right question. 🙂

Again, not whinging,

but you are like a whingey little girl 😉

Seriously Piggie, I'm not. We're just doing some post-game [s]whinging[/s] analysis while I have a bit of time to actually post for once. Haven't whinged about the result anywhere...unless you can find it. All you've been able to contribute is your usual anti-English bile and some guff about scrums. Come back when you've got something constructive to say. Otherwise sit in the corner with jambalaya. 😛

deadlydarcy - Member

Should the tournament be moved to late Spring instead of cold, wet Feb/Mar?

It's a valid question although even if the roof hadn't broken at the [s]Millenium[/s] Principality Stadium and they'd managed to shut it I fear the rugby would still have been sh*t.

There's no doubt that teams that try to play attractive rugby do it better on the firm pitches of Spring but, the fact is, they have to be TRYING to do it in the first place. If a team wants to kick it in the air and run after it for 80 minutes then they'll do that whether they're playing on a patch of bog or under a dome.

It's the mindset that matters - the mindset in the 6N is "don't lose".

If a team wants to kick it in the air and run after it for 80 minutes then they'll do that whether they're playing on a patch of bog or under a dome.

Be interesting to see some stats on the kicking this year. I'd noticed Ireland weren't doing it so much (thankfully)...do we think it's increased since last year's competitions? I'd a [i]feeling[/i] it had decreased a bit...could be wrong though.

I think Ireland are kicking less - maybe that's why they're losing.... 😉

Thing is, the ABs kick a LOT but they're generally good kicks and 90% are contestable. There's nothing wrong with good kick/chase if it's married to sublime handling and the ability to take chances.

I am not sitting with him 😆

DD what's up chum you seem stressed?

Tuilagi back in England squad!

anagallis_arvensis - Member

Tuilagi back in England squad!

Do keep up at the back there!

😉

namastebuzz - Member
I think Ireland are kicking less - maybe that's why they're losing....

Thing is, the ABs kick a LOT but they're generally good kicks and 90% are contestable. There's nothing wrong with good kick/chase if it's married to sublime handling and the ability to take chances.

Agreed, and Sexton is a very good positional kicker so I think they aren't using him properly at the moment.

It's interesting reading the comments here - most, if not all, have appeared regularly since rugby went professional. Summer rugby has always been an agenda point, as has pushing the 6N back to better weather. Defences ruling the game? Reducing the number of players was talked about years ago (maybe just by fans!). And somebody mentioned teams of specialist players as per American Football. Remember when Rob Andrew and Neil Jenkins, along with just about every other 10, reduced the game to a 10 man bore-a-long? I remember reading letters suggesting that the kicker only be brought on for kicks so that we could have creative players on the pitch.

Dwayne Peel has retired. Great player was among the top 9's in the world for a while. Would have had more caps if he hadnt gone to Sale I think.