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No, not drinking. Watch it again. One heel to the head, then another, then he changes foot and kicks Murray in the shoulder and then swaps again to his other foot for a kick at the shoulder. Seriously, wtf were you watching?
It doesn't matter whether he contacted lightly, he still managed to take Murray off the pitch. Was it any different to a mistimed tackle that took a player out in the air? Or a player who accidentally lifts a players legs more than 90 and dumps them on tgeir back? Both of which would be a straight yellow. Take your eye-patches off 'chaps'.
Btw, I agree with DanW - England were far and away the better team. They look better than Wales at the mo.
The ball was on the ground. Brown was absolutely entitled to kick it away. Murray should not have been cuddling the ball on the ground. Penalty england.
think Farrell get very petulant with a player on the ground at about 56 mins
Was that clearing out about two rucks before the try? I would have liked to see that from the other angle.
I agree wrecker, but the penalty then gets superseded by the unintentional foul play.
Even more one eyed than your WC predictions Kryton? Why don't you just adopt the Wrecker defence of anybody who is critical of England is chippy and bitter? Or if you are a WC winner,a dick.
Possibly idlejon, but it's wrong to colour brown the villain. He was perfectly entitled to kick that ball. The ref hadn't blown for holding on (as he should), Murray was clearly cheating.
Or if you are a WC winner,a dick.
Actually I called him a prick, because he is. Npothing to do with being a WC winner. Mark Regan has won a WC. He's a prick too.
Duck man I reference my own posts if you read what I said.
See wrecker above, there's no more to be said. But I think you'll find I too have criticised England and England's players, despite being a fan.
a_a yes that might be it. Just to the right of the posts iirc
Superb! So that is now an England pen? 😀
has anyone got anything constructive to say about the actual performances? rather than just baiting each other?
England are failing at 9/10. Ford and Youngs are struggling. The defensive pattern is prone to the inside line (as Ireland found in the 2nd half) and the forwards are not mobile enough. When the 2nd rows are quicker than the flankers, there is something wrong.
Billy was awesome, itoje looks like he will be an amazing player.
Glad sexton made it through without any more head damage.
Do we think eddie Jones is going to start being able to feed the amazing junior players into the first team?
Also am surprised that Ireland got away with getting done in as many scrums inside their own 22 as they did in the first half
has anyone got anything constructive to say about the actual performances?
Yes, if Wales can hang onto the England power game for 60mins and be within a score they have a chance. How dumb were Ireland going high on Vunipola time after time and why was the irish linespeed so poor in defence, they let England run at them in a very passive manner.
First half, I think Ireland were overplaying slightly, without tying in the defence first, and repeatedly got caught behind the gain line. Billy & Watson were immense, and I think Ireland would have felt lucky to be within 3 at halftime.
I was disappointed with Ireland's kicking game - the chase was never quite close enough to put pressure on.
Overall an enjoyable game. England need to cut out the yellow cards.
AA - I think that 20 minute England attacking phase in the first half took a lot out of Ireland. The replacements looked noticeably fresher.
True england powered on at the start of the second half but then faded in the last 15 with ireland finishing stronger.
The replacements looked noticeably fresher.
...against the same England team, and we wobbled. Perhaps our subs should have come on sooner to counter that. For one thing, Lawes could have least shown some minor enthusiasm when he came on. It hardly lifts a team to see a replacement moping onto the pitch.
That fat hooker doesnt look to have the best darts either
I think being down to 14 didn't help with the "wobble"
Down to 14 twice in the 2nd half definitely didn't help!!
The ref hadn't blown for holding on (as he should), Murray was clearly cheating.
That's an interesting point. Refs this season are pretty much allowing a free for all at the ruck. I'm not sure why. But if you want Murray to be penalised for handling then you concede a penalty at just about every English ruck as well. Everyone is doing it, every ref is allowing it. England cheated at the ruck just as much as Ireland, as did Wales, France et al, all the way down through the club game this season. Even Super Rugby.
Plenty of penalty turnovers though Idlejon. If there is an attempt at the ball, it normally gets blown. There has always been that second or so before the posting of the ball permitted but lying on the deck cuddling the bloody thing whilst the opposition try to kick it away is ridiculous. All he had to do was let go.
I'm sure I mentioned at some point that Brown was a kn*b.......
Hopefully he'll be cited and receive a lengthy ban. I don't care whether he's innocent or not - I just don't like him.
The good thing is that England seem to be developing some sort of system of play. Hopefully that means that when EJ decides to dispense with donkeys like Farrell and Haskell then the thoroughbreds that come in will be able to slot into the system easily enough.
Well I for one want to see the back of Ben Youngs - he's plainly shit and Ford - he is way out of his depth.
Youngs kicked most of he ball away.
Just had a look on the planet rugby forum page. Holy crap that place makes this thread look like a church meeting
Some classy writing there
. I don't care whether he's innocent or not - I just don't like him.
Kind of sums a lot up....
Were they playing rugby out there or bridge?
It's the players fault not the refs when you get lots of penalties but it's a shame when the whistle dominates the game. The championship will probably hinge on a ref's "guess" at scrum or ruck.
Oh my - what a bitter piece of writing!! He must hate England even more than Stephen Jones. The hit by Youngs on Sexton was a great tackle.
wrecker - Member
Well I for one want to see the back of Ben Youngs - he's plainly shit and Ford - he is way out of his depth.
Nonsense,the Times gave him 7/10 for the purpose and intent in his game. Young's got the same and had a good game and played with "boldness"
The issue with the sexton tackle isn't the timing. He's getting rattled about because he's running across the pitch the hit is into his side not front on. The big swinging arm from haskell is more proof that his time is done.
Despite what he said, I doubt very much that Eddie was happy with that performance. A huge amount of domination in the first half but no cutting edge to ring off chances. We should have been out of sight by half time. The discipline was terrible; so many needless penalties in attaching positions. Haskell was don't pretty well defensively until his late and high hit on Murray which was just dull. He and Robshaw were so bloody slow. Hopefully one or both will be changed for the next match.
Youngs was utter shite too - his passing is awful. There were so many balls thrown at head or foot height. Ford remained suspect and Farrell continues to prove that he isn't a 12. Billy was immense again and is probably the stand out player this tournament. Watson looked spritely and Itoje gave a good account of himself. Harltley shops have been subbed earlier because he was nailed and started to miss tackles. Ireland seemed to play too too much rugby in the wrong parts of the pitch.
I think the Brown incident was accidental, but I guess with green glass on it was a red! He is a spikey, aggressive player but I don't think he'd do something like that on purpose. I know a lot of people don't like him but I don't think he in the same camp as Callum Clark when it comes to deliberately hurting people.
I still think the championship is Wales to loose. It's all of the talk about the next match being the decider, they have the experience to deal with the pressure.
Brown incident wasn't accidental, nor deliberate attempt to kick the player in the head. But it was reckless and deliberately so the multiple statements show that he was trying to clear the ball.
Players have a responsibility for others on the pitch. Something some from all sides seem to forget.
Without the Tongan england forwards didn't do much, if he gets hurt what would the plan be?
What a truly terrible article; who the fudge is Luther Watson?
As for England being arrogant for walking back to halfway after thinking they'd scored a try. Nice bit of BS Bingo there. Of course we're the only ones to do this. I bet it's be gamesmanship if Ireland did it! All teams do it when they're confident a try has been scored. The guy comes across as very, very bitter.
Without the Tongan england forwards didn't do much, if he gets hurt what would the plan be?
POSTED 13 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
And what do Wales do if they're local born and bred 8 is injured? It's not as though we're the only ones who use the rules. I'd suggest the likes of Scotland are relying more on the likes of Nel.
still think the championship is Wales to loose
What an odd thing to say given England ate the only unbeaten team and Wales at home.
Oooh touchy 😆
We would struggle but more than one of our forwards contributed, now answer the question 😉
And what do Wales do if they're local born and bred 8 is injured?
I suspect we'd see Warburton at 8, Tipuric to 7.
Nonsense,the Times gave him 7/10 for the purpose and intent in his game. Young's got the same and had a good game and played with "boldness"
😆
Must have done by the same idiot who gaves Davies seren y gem..oh hang on that was jiffy.
Turn overs thing seems different this year. Seem to need to actually get the ball. Gethin had at least 3 really good long stabs at the ball v france and got nothing when he came on. Warburton hasnt made a turnover in all three games and whilst he is still to hit top form he doesnt seem to be trying for them that much.
Oh my - what a bitter piece of writing!! He must hate England even more than Stephen Jones.
Let's be honest, it would take many such articles to balance the bias inflicted on the whole nation in the form of John Inverdale. At least that article is in the [b]Irish [/b]Independent, not a national broadcaster.
"Welcome to Scotland on this warm, spring day, where they host Ireland. So, Jim, how will the English back row perform tomorrow." 😉
Wales England will be a great match, all to play for. With home advantage I would make England slight favourites but I imagine Wales will produce a much better performance than they did against France.
Let's not forget England played almost 20 minutes of the 2nd half with only 14 men and still outscored Ireland 15-7. Had we taken advantage of being camped in the Irish 22 for much of the first half it could have been a rout.
What's plan B if Vunipola gets injured? Well the spectre of Nathan Hughes looms large on the horizon so if Big Billy can keep it going 'til after the Australian Tour then we should be OK.
OR - for the benefit of Pigface - when the Tongan England forward gets injured we'll bring in the Fijian England forward. 😉
Let's not forget England played almost 20 minutes of the 2nd half with only 14 men and still outscored Ireland 15-7. Had we taken advantage of being camped in the Irish 22 for much of the first half it could have been a rout.
How would England have fared with these 14 brave men against a full strength England side and how impressive would the score have looked if Ireland were given the try that was disallowed?
I wasn't at all impressed by England except on one or two ocassions when they ran wide. Far too much sloppy (cheating) play and lack of discipline.
I wasn't at all impressed by England
I wasn't that impressed either but, in stark contrast to the previous coaching regime, at least there's a clear sense of the direction that England are taking.
A stable gameplan will allow new/returning players to slot in more easily.
At least that article is in the Irish Independent, not a national broadcaster.
That a great line, good work.
Just settling on the sofa to rewatchbthe England match, having read all the opinions here 😈
dantsw13 - MemberJust settling on the sofa to rewatchbthe England match, having read all the opinions here
You might get more enjoyment watching Wasps v Quins......
Yeh Wales England will be a pivotal match.. Playing at Twickenham, but the Welsh managed a cheeky win there in the world cup so it's set to be very interesting.
I bet a tenner on Wales to win the 6 nations a few months back, so this match will be the decider I think!
Two big games england, wales at home and France away. I half hope Wale lose, might mean we try to improve our game.
How would England have fared with these 14 brave men against a full strength England side and how impressive would the score have looked
I think England would have won comfortably.
I've watched the game again, with particular interest on some of the foul play. The Brown incident in particular. He places his foot past Connor Murray and flicks the ball with his foot. The Irish flanker then drives him back, and it is as the Ireland player drives him that his foot goes backwards, catching Murrays head. So when he was in full control of himself, he carefully placed his foot past Murrays head, and was only ever playing the ball.
Poite & the TMO both looked at the replays and assessed no foul play.
How would England have fared with these 14 brave men against a full strength England side and how impressive would the score have looked
Who gives a shit? There are many permutations of what if, none of them relevant.
Who gives a shit? There are many permutations of what if, none of them relevant.
namastebuzz does, as this was in response to his post on the what ifs, but thanks for your reply anyway.
Sorry to be blunt, capt. There is always a "what if" or a "yeah but" when england win. Always. It just doesn't matter. We all have injuries, but you can only piss with the cock you've got.
Oh and wasps/quins is a hell of a game!
still think the championship is Wales to loose
What an odd thing to say given England ate the only unbeaten team and Wales at home.
I still think Wales will win it; they're an experienced team who have won the 6N before and are used to dealing with pressure. They won't fear England, even at home. They're stronger in some key positions; Biggar is in form unlike Ford, Davies is playing better than Youngs who insists on looking like a baby bird trying to fly for the first time at every ruck, Wales are stronger at 12 too. On top of that they dont give way needless penalties like we do.
Pigface - Member
Oooh touchyWe would struggle but more than one of our forwards contributed, now answer the question
We seem to get beaten with it endlessly by our Celtic neighbours who seem to be importing plots of SH players, so e of whom are being identified early and bought over specifically.
Without Billy? We do t have another player like that so I'd expect to see Clifford on to use his pace and maybe move Itoje to the backrow to be a pain at the breakdown. Mako can carry well and has better hands than Billy as Scotland found out.
I'm always interested in the discussions on here, but the fractious nature of the posts becomes tiresome.
However I'm keen to add my thoughts.....
England seem to be trying to move towards a different game plan and a faster style, they are identifying some useful players without making a complete clean break from the old regime, both some good bits and some bad bits are being carried forward. I expect that to change, EJ has only been in charge a few months it will take many more to change all the habits.
Wales are Wales! They seem to play one way which seems to limit them, they do have in Biggar though a real find, I really like his game and he looks very good. They need to find a bit more creativity and plan B.
Ireland need to find some ball carriers and stop inviting defences on to them.
France were desperate against Wales and look devoid of any ideas of how to play, no structure or game plan.
Scotland have disappointed me the most as at the WC they seemed to have finally made some progress but have failed to bring that to the 6N.
Italy are getting closer and are slowly becoming more rounded and less totally forward dominated, although they need to gag Parisse!
STW continues to disappoint with it's continual intolerance of each other, but I keep hoping to see some love!!!!!
STW continues to disappoint with it's continual intolerance of each other
The Celts hate the English in a magnified way when it comes to sport, you won't change that, and "writing" comes across more aggressive than face to face dialogue most of the time too, you won't change that either.
Wreckers right, most on here won't congratulate England, even the English as we are a passive polite race most of the time and prefer to highlight the negatives.
England Won. We are the top of the table, therefore currently by the sum of the nature of how the Six Nations is measured and ranked we are the best team to date.
Lets not forget Wales could only muster a draw against Ireland a few weeks ago - a similar Ireland to won we just beat, and had we been better finishers would have (I know I know) beaten by a bigger margin. Wales will be harder for sure.
Kryton I think you are right, I'm guilty of it too sometimes!
I've read / heard a fair few of the Welsh players interviewed and they mostly seem really nice blokes (and some dam fine players too!), but their supporters grate on me and make me dislike their team. Some of the Welsh players may be like that off the record too, but I'll let them off!
I think that mostly the players of all nations get on pretty well I'd like the supporters to do so more...
What I find funny though is growing up England were always derided for playing the power game and kicking penalties, boot seems to be on the other foot now and it is acceptable to win at all cost... Short memories.
I think that mostly the players of all nations get on pretty well I'd like the supporters to do so more...
I think you'll find the Welsh, as you've singled them out, get along with most nations, and them with the Welsh. Go figure! 😆
Rugby threads of old were a LOT worse!!!!
The Celts hate the English in a magnified way when it comes to sport
As a Scot I probably get to comment on that, and the comment is "not really". It's more disappointment that a country with so many players manages to play in such a boring (if effective) style. It's good old 10 man rugby straight out of the Rob Andrew book of style.
The only point in professional sport is entertainment - and forwards repeatedly banging away until the kick comes in doesn't entertain.
Wreckers right, most on here won't congratulate England,
Well after the Scotland game I was quite clear on here that the English deserved their win. What more do you want?
even the English as we are a passive polite race most of the time and prefer to highlight the negatives.
Can't agree with that - in sporting terms of boring describes the England team then arrogant tends to describe the England support. This of course is a massive generalisation and some England supporters are lovely insightful people with whom one can discuss the highs and lows of a game and where certain skills and abilities told.
However I think it is fair to say my wife hates the average English supporter - because as an English woman she is embarrassed by her compatriots attitudes.
Of course I'm sure it's only bitterness - we've never had a WC and the last decent thing we won was the 5 Nations (reigning champions there though)
I've read / heard a fair few of the Welsh players interviewed and they mostly seem really nice blokes (and some dam fine players too!), but their supporters grate on me and make me dislike their team.
😆
Total lack of irony.
😆
Good post bear and your right about what England are trying to do and the intolerance - tried a separate thread to counter but it died.
As frustrating as it is to watch, I think EJ is balancing things well although it seems to me is that experience heads are giving away more penalties that the young guns. An impression as don't have the stats to back that up!
IGM - your wife is right most supporters are difficult to comprehend.
I singled the Welsh out as I suppose I remember that rivalry the most.
There looks like the making of a decent Lions team in this 6N though. Hopefully a good mix of nations involved with no one nation dominant.
I was just trying to make observations, I have no problems with any team, just want to watch some good rugby.
Another observation is that people seem to have very high expectations of teams and the the ability to be near perfect, things take time to develop, players need time to learn styles and patterns of play. Rather than the revolving door policy I think it is best to identify talent and stick with it. There will be lean times but hopefully you get through those.
STW continues to disappoint with it's continual intolerance of each other, but I keep hoping to see some love!!!!!
I've read / heard a fair few of the Welsh players interviewed and they mostly seem really nice blokes (and some dam fine players too!), but their supporters grate on me
was just trying to make observations, I have no problems with any team, just want to watch some good rugby.
Well you grate on me, how about shutting up with your anti welsh clap trap and talk about the rugby. FFS you couldnt make it up tou really couldnt.
And bear has brought the old anagallis back. Well done that man. 😆
The supporters who grate on me are the ones who turn up for 6 weeks every year and pretend to be experts based on what the rugby section of the Telegraph says. Or my mate Mark, a Scot who knows nothing until the 6N, and then proceeds to lecture me about how Scotland are so good.
Bear for the record I am Welsh and I hate loathe detest english rugby. There, now you can accuse me of being hopelessly one eyed and bigoted because I am, proud of it as well. Hugs
Just watching rugby special, why did Vunipola stop on his early break? Did he blow that chance?
2 rucks before the watson try what was farrel up to? Looks like a punch but hard to tell without another angle
Didn't catch the Farrell incident but Billy was definitely guilty of not playing to th whistle and blowing a try scoring opportunity
I actually like Eddies unapologetic approach. He couldn't care less if anyone dislikes him or the team, and I think a lot of england supporters would do well to follow his lead.
like Eddies unapologetic approach. He couldn't care less if anyone dislikes him or the team, and I think a lot of england supporters would do well to follow his lead.
That's never a bad approach. Served Pontypridd well for years.
who knows nothing until the 6N, and then proceeds to lecture me about how Scotland are so good.
I miss TJ in this thread. 🙁
Gusset is a bell end and I have to agree with Nicol
AA - I'm not anti Welsh or anti much (except Wendyball), I said I actually like the Welsh players, just their one eyed supporters, in fact any one eyed supporter, English included, and they may be some of the worst because a lot of them know nothing about rugby just come along at international time.
Pigface - would you like some help removing the fence!!!!!
Apologies if I've offended anyone.