[Closed] 2015-16 rugby, world cup year

We beat Sale !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go Warriors !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My old man will be dead chuffed .

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Naughty

[url= http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12508/10176916/france-forced-to-drop-david-smith-from-six-nations-squad ]Apparently, he'd once been within 200yds of a baguette. [/url]

Who's in the clip AA?

Not sure about naughty, more crap at punching!

I was thinking about you while watching the Leeds NQC RL match yesterday - the high tackles, tip tackles and neck rolls would have had you in a frenzy!!

The run and wriggle mob did well didn't they 🙄

Not sure about naughty, more crap at punching!

OK - stand corrected!! Oops

Did they exchange pleasantries while the medics were on? (BBC website picture)

Devoto and Beaumont out of England Squad (not that they were going to get a game) and Burrell in. Thought it'd be Manu (who isn't playing well enough yet) so I'm pleased.

I don't think Burrells playing at his best. But will EJ use him or continue with Farrell? He's a much heavier runner than Farell, has experience and has worked with JJ - once touted as the RWC partnership.

If the fans have their way Ford off for Farrell and Burrell in. Right?

I don't think Burrells playing at his best.

He's been very good indeed for the last 3 games.

If the fans have their way Ford off for Farrell and Burrell in. Right?

I don't think Burrells playing at his best.

He's been very good indeed for the last 3 games.

At 13... which is where he was pretty impressive for England when he first came on the scene. I don't think he's a 12, he's a big, quick guy but doesn't break or bend the line enough to be a out and out bosh 12, and he doesn't seem intelligent enough (as a player) to be a ball playing 12. His strengths seem to be out wide where he can use his size and pace a bit more, so for me he's 13 or bust, and I can't see him ousting Joseph.

I've not seen much of Saints' games recently but have seen plenty of praise for Henry Mallinder, with some suggesting that its he who has brought the best out in Burrell again. Can anyone confirm?

Looking at how a Hooker can play nowadays are you sure you don't want the chubby centre to have another go at 12 for you? 😀

In which case Ekul, we'd see Ford/Farrell again (groan), and potentially Burell / JJ subbed for different jobs?

I do think we'll see Ford and Farrell again, I think our only hope is that Ford plays himself into some form in the next couple of games! I do feel for him a little, a couple of times against Italy I could see him looking for the pass only to either have a lumbering idiot (Haskell and Robshaw) jogging alongside him with no arms up to receive the ball and blocking him from passing it to anyone more useful, or there was simply no one there at all, hence why he got smashed a few times.

It might be symptomatic of whats happened at Bath but last 6Ns Joseph was running really good lines off Ford and just ghosting through gaps thanks to Ford's flat passing on the gainline, this year there's none of that. Have they been worked out? But it doesn't even look like they've tried anything like that in the past 2 games.

I've not seen much of Saints' games recently but have seen plenty of praise for Henry Mallinder

Disagree about ford though, he's getting smashed, because at present he is shit. Currently he does not deserve to be wearing an england shirt, nor, arguably a bath shirt either.

Wales make 3 changes Cuhbert for James, Lydiate for Tips and Davies for Girafferis. Shame Girafferis the maul buster is out big loss. Lydiate coming in to chop down the big French forward runners makes sense. On the wing Forest Gump 1 replaced by Forest Gump 2. Anscombe and Ball are on bench. If they play well they should beat France but it'll be tight. Not many players other than Roberts and Faletau are playing at their best tbh.

Some interesting comments by EJ on whether Tuilagi can be the next Nonu:

"If you look at it purely on athleticism between Manu and Ma'a Nonu, Manu is not behind Nonu at all, He starts in a good situation and then it's a matter of how hard you work at your game and how desperate you are to want to play for England.

"I think 12's his best position, yes. He's not a 13. That's what I know he's not. He's definitely a 12. He can carry the ball across the gain line.

"He threw a beautiful left to right pass on Friday night, threw a terrible right to left, so maybe he's left handed, I don't know.

"But he's got the ability to catch and pass. I haven't seen him kick but there's no reason he can't learn to kick. We have a reasonable kicking mentor (Jonny Wilkinson) here. He's got all the attributes to be an outstanding 12."

And on Burrell:

"The reason I left him (Burrell) out in the first place was because he wasn't good enough to be in the squad. He had flaws in his game and was making a lot of mistakes. I think he's done that brilliantly and looks like he's getting better every day."

[url= http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11593960 ]http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11593960[/url]

ON the All Blacks - I was reading about how Kieran Read will be the next captain and how Sam Cane will fill the No7 jersey vacated by McCaw.

Cane is 24 and already has 31 caps, including having captained the side. Contrast this with Matt Kvesic who's nearly 24 and has 2 caps to his name. Maybe Kvesic is the answer for England or maybe he's not but the point is - if he was a Kiwi they'd know by now.

It seems like he's been wasted. He's been on the scene for a few years but we've never found out if he can cut it.

The ABs are also talking about when Hansen is going to go. That's the difference. THey know when someone is going and they know who's gonna replace him.

Contrast that with England (or France) over the last 10 years......

George North has 50!

There was plenty of blood letting in NZ rugby when they were losing.

George North has 50!

Indeed and he'll probably get 150 if he avoids too many more bangs on the head. The cream seems to rise to the top a lot quicker in Wales.

There was plenty of blood letting in NZ rugby when they were losing.

True but I don't recall much losing going on of late - a couple of RWC knockout games aside.

Cane is 24 and already has 31 caps, including having captained the side. Contrast this with Matt Kvesic who's nearly 24 and has 2 caps to his name. Maybe Kvesic is the answer for England or maybe he's not but the point is - if he was a Kiwi they'd know by now.

The cream seems to rise to the top a lot quicker in Wales.

The vastly smaller number of options helps but Wales do make more effort to identify talent early and bring it in to the international game.

In case the country they actually are from cotton on and cap them.....

Dylan? Vunipola x2 Tuilagi?

Quite clever having an age grade tie in.

Wrecker - isn't EJ trying to do that with Ford?
He is out of form and playing poorly, but has been identified as the one to take England forward as he does seem to have great vision and passing ability when on form. Therefore you stick with him?
Or do they just share caps about trying to find a miracle? Personally I think if you identify someone then you should stick with it. I hope EJ does this in several key positions when he is ready and has established the players he wants and that can play in the style he would like.

It's a damn good question bear, and not one I have an answer to.
I am not, nor have I ever been convinced that Ford is as good as some seem to think. Given a year at 10, I think Slade would be better.

wrecker - Member

I disagree.

Sounds like you agree more than you disagree - that's pretty much the point I was trying to make but perhaps I didn't put it so well. :;

As for FH - Ford has proved with Bath and England that he can be a top-class operator so EJ looks like he'll stick with him. Slade might turn out to be better but he hasn't played too much at 10 for Exeter and he's not playing at all at the moment so it's a moot point, for now.

There's a lot of luck needed in international rugby - unless you're Jonah Lomu. Being uninjured and in good form when the various windows for squad selection open is paramount. Slade has fallen foul of that by breaking his leg when surely he was looking at being the starting 12 for the 6N. If he's not back and playing well when the Aus tour squad is chosen then he might miss out again and that's a years potential development wasted.

The same has happened to Christian Wade a couple of times and poor old JSD always seemed to play a blinder but then pick up injuries at exactly the wrong moment for England selection.

Perhaps but it is relevant that (at present at least) Farrell is the better player.
Apologies if i missed your point, it's a source of frustration that we have such a successful u-20s team, and the route to the elite squad is shit compared to the ABs.
I also learned that the AB contracted players will barely play any club rugby leading up to a RWC, they take part in a RWC conditioning package instead....remarkable.

Is Farrell a better player? Apart from playing for a dominant club and being a good kicker and being able to throw a long miss pass to nobody in particular is he really better than Ford?

I also learned that the AB contracted players will barely play any club rugby leading up to a RWC, they take part in a RWC conditioning package instead....remarkable.

Well that's the beauty of central contracts. In 1995 the RFU decided to "wait and see" how things would turn out under professionalism. How it turned out was the clubs took control of all the players and have never relinquished it. Hence the sorry state of the England team ever since - 2003 excepted.

On current form, this is the best 10 in the English prem.

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All of him.

🙂

That's him lying down after running out the tunnel before the start of the match.......

All the kids are just about managing to hold the advertising hoarding up against the load

Is Farrell a better player?

All of him.

The bloke doesn't run, not even a little bit

Is that Andy Goode or Farrell you're talking about? 😆

Farrell has been playing great rugby this year and he shifts and he can tackle, as in actually bring players to the ground rather than act like a breathing speed bump 😉

Much as I loathe stats his tackling % is actually lower than Ford or Cipriani in the premiership.....

Ah, we both know that stat to be bollocks. Farrell is considerably stronger defensively than both. You only have to have seen them play to know that.

Skillz.

🙂

Ah, we both know that stat to be bollocks.

😆

I know you're right but I find Farell such a disagreeable sort that I'll persist in arguing the toss...... 😉

So you'd pick Ford because he's a bit less objectionable? 😯

At international level Farrell is nothing special and his development has stalled. Ford was first choice 10 for 18 (?) months before the RWC and it was a major error to switch to Farrell after the first game. Ford stays first choice until his England performances are not up to scratch. We know what we'll get with Farrell and its not enough.

On Wales bringing players into the side early it certainly helped a lot with North as he was a man mountain at 19. The intensity of International rugby mixed in with tough league and european schedules mean I'd rather see playets eased in gradually unless exceptional (North was/is)

On Wales bringing players into the side early it certainly helped a lot with North as he was a man mountain at 19.

Halfpenny also had a shit load of caps by 23 or 24.

Ford stays first choice until his England performances are not up to scratch

Friday night is not a proper time to be playing international rugby, grumble moan, kicks can and wanders off hands deep in pockets. Just saying.

I agree

So you'd pick Ford because he's a bit less objectionable?

If two players were equal I'd pick the less objectionable one.

I personally think Ford is better anyway so I'd pick him. With Cipriani on the bench. 😀

I agree too Pigface. Not least because I'll be in the air coming home from work and have to watch it later. Sport should be watched live otherwise there's no point cheering and shouting at the television where you can clearly make a difference to the outcome 🙂

Friday night is not a proper time to be playing international rugby, grumble moan, kicks can and wanders off hands deep in pockets. Just saying.

I work every Saturday. Checked my schedule over the weekend, thought about booking next Saturday off, decided against it. Then thought a bit harder - rugby 'til late on Friday with a few beers, I could then go to watch Swansea v Llanharan on Saturday with an old friend. A few more beers then meet my wife for a curry and Zoolander 2. I decided that, yes, I need to book Saturday off. By the time I made my decision all holidays had been blocked because work is expected to be busy. FFS!! Dithering fool.

Friday night is not a proper time to be playing international rugby, grumble moan, kicks can and wanders off hands deep in pockets. Just saying.

As an aside ticket sales for Twickenham seem to have dipped as RFU mailing about extra availability.

@wrecker in absolute fairness to you I"ve not watched a single game or any highlights 😳 Consistent with my view that post rwc 6n is largely irrelevant. Dropping who was the best 10 in the run up to the rwc and is the player to drive a more expansive game is imo daft, EJ seems to be agree. All my spectating this season will be European RC and Top14
Being slightly cheeky I can see why Irish and Welsh fans want to see Farrell, he's far less dangerous to them than Ford

I wonder of those england fans, who admires players like Mike Phillips, Picamoles, Healy etc for their no-nonsense approach. Farrell has done nothing these guys don't do.
I don't play this self loathing bollocks. I like Farrell and Brown. We lack fire and aggression. We have a lot of players who are scared to show their teeth when needs be. They act like a load of big soft dopey lummoxes 😀 Regan, Back, Dally, Hill, MJ etc must be rolling their eyes.

EJ seems to be agree.

Ford/ Cips/ type player with a proper 12 and a balanced back row is a team I wouldn't want to face. I think most teams would take Farrell all day long by choice! The other backs get instantly taken out of the game 😉

The England pack on form do the work of most full teams in defence so I don't think adding to the lumbering-1D-ness (Farrell) helps the team as a whole if you want to be more expansive (i.e. challenge the SH sides).

I wonder of those england fans, who admires players like Mike Phillips, Picamoles, Healy etc for their no-nonsense approach. Farrell has done nothing these guys don't do.

I wouldn't call Farrell no nonsense, nor the others really. Farrell is all mouth and no trousers which is what gets people's backs up and his "confrontational style" is often very misplaced and lets down the team as a result.

Farrell is a solid international 10 who'll kick penalties but isn't the long term option IMO. I would imagine Snr's meddling will also delay this progress

I wouldn't call Farrell no nonsense, nor the others really. Farrell is all mouth and no trousers which is what gets people's backs up and his "confrontational style" is often very misplaced and lets down the team as a result.

Ford/ Cips/ type player with a proper 12 and a balanced back row is a team I wouldn't want to face. I think most teams would take Farrell all day long by choice!

who admires players like Mike Phillips, Picamoles, Healy etc for their no-nonsense approach. Farrell has done nothing these guys don't do.

None of those players have played for England! Therefore Farrel is a scum bag but Phillips a saint.

Healey is actually the worst of the lot, a violent stampy thug who tries to injure people.

None of those players have played for England! Therefore Farrel is a scum bag but Phillips a saint.

The thing is, it's a lot easier to look good playing for Saracens than it is playing for either Sale or (at the moment) Bath.

When people say Farrell is the "form 10" in Europe that judgement is based on how he looks given an armchair ride by a dominant team.

Mike Philips may be a total kn*b off the pitch but at least he played some good stuff on it. Farrell just runs round all the time trying to be a total c**t. As does Brown.

Josh Lewsey was hard as nails without being a tw*t. That's what you want.

The thing is, it's a lot easier to look good playing for Saracens than it is playing for either Sale or (at the moment) Bath.

Brown is one of the only england players who came out of the RWC with any credit, and it was only a couple of years ago people were saying he was the best 15 in europe.Farrell may be running around being a * but he's still performing better than Ford, which says quite a lot about Fords form.
It's disconcerting when England fans won't acknowledge a good player for their own team just because they don't like them.

Oh, and Phillips was every bit the * on the pitch that MB and OF were/are, and then some. I liked him, too.

Brown's not that good either. He had one good run of games where he was England's best player but then Mark Cueto did the same a few years back - didn't make him Jason Robinson.

Brown lacks basic skills like how to draw a man and give a pass. (See Eng v Wales 2012 80th minute) He also lacks basic manners when talking to officials.

Brown's been lucky - Foden's been injured a lot and Armitage/Abendenon went to France. They should have stuck Watson in at fullback and let him learn on the job.

Anybody read the article on project players in the Times today? Talks about us and Ireland targeting players for positions using Stander,Nel and Payne as examples.

Well, I am a fan of Foden and watson, and I was not keen on Brown in the early days, but he does a job well. If he needs to behave aggressively to get the most out of his game, then it's fine by me. Armitage? 😆 and you think Brown is a ****? He's a complete novice compared to that [i]person[/i] AND he's shit anyway!

I'm in the camp that being a tw*t can be a good thing if you do it right on the rugby pitch. Farrells problem for me is that his aggression leads to him shooting out the line to smash the player and leaving a dogleg in defence, means everyone else has to compensate. This is fine if he smashed his man every time but he doesn't.

Re. Mike Brown I'd never noticed it before but someone mentioned it to me against Italy, he's so easy to read. He never carries the ball in two hands, therefore he never looks like he's going to pass it and that's why he doesn't draw defenders in. To his credit he's pretty good at wriggling through but he's never gonna put other people away until he learns to carry in two hands and at least look like he's considering using his support runners!

France: Maxime Medard; Virimi Vakatawa, Maxime Mermoz, Jonathan Danty, Djibril Camara; Jules Plisson, Maxime Machenaud; Jefferson Poirot, Guilhem Guirado (capt), Rabah Slimani, Alexandre Flanquart, Paul Jedrasiak, Antoine Burban, Damien Chouly, Wenceslas Lauret.

Replacements: Camille Chat, Uini Atonio, Vincent Pelo, Yoann Maestri, Loann Goujon, Sebastien Bezy, Francois Trinh Duc, Gael Fickou

Anyone able to offer some insight into that lot? Backs look sharpe, have no idea about pack

The problem with englands ****s is that they're aimless ****s, see Farrell's push on Laidlaw or brown starting on forwards on his own. When Phillips was being a **** he'd generally be a discerning **** and getting some gain by winding the player up.

They are all "no trousers". No fisticuffs allowed nowadays. I think his disciplinary record is better than Healys.

I'm glad others were able to better articulate what I meant when I said Farrell is all mouth and no trousers.... granted though Healy is some special kind of nut job for the stuff he comes up with some times

I'm in the camp that being a tw*t can be a good thing if you do it right on the rugby pitch. Farrells problem for me is that his aggression leads to him shooting out the line to smash the player and leaving a dogleg in defence, means everyone else has to compensate. This is fine if he smashed his man every time but he doesn't.

Not to mention being seemingly easy to wind up and knock off his game, a fan of cheap shots and also bloody lucky that high tackles have been deemed lawful for some reason this 6N. He could already have a couple of yellows and that is potentially game changing stuff.

Anyone able to offer some insight into that lot? Backs look sharpe, have no idea about pack

The No 8 had a good Christmas period.

But in all seriousness, the coach is trying to rediscover France's rugby DNA, rightly in my view, it will take time to click but my guess is this Friday is too early - we, England, may be playing a very different team by the end of the tournament.

trying to rediscover France's rugby DNA

Peut-etre

Well, I am a fan of Foden and watson, and I was not keen on Brown in the early days, but he does a job well. If he needs to behave aggressively to get the most out of his game, then it's fine by me. Armitage? and you think Brown is a ****? He's a complete novice compared to that person AND he's shit anyway!

Armitage is a total bellend - I agree - but he has a grasp of basic skills that Brown never will and has more pace too.

There's behaving aggressively by flattening some annoying opponent in a legal manner (Lewsey) or by shouting at linesmen and running 50yds to shove someone in the back because they haven't released the ball for a lineout (Brown).

These days, fullbacks need to be the first line of attack and pose a proper threat - Ben Smith, Israel Dagg/Folau, Stuart Hogg etc.

Brown is little threat. As Ekul points out he tucks it under one arm, is easy to read and doesn't put people away.

Foden has far more ability although he hasn't looked great this season the couple of times I've seen him. Watson has massive potential as a fullback but doesn't look a natural winger - if anyone listens to Austin Healey....

That French pack is big,slow and not especially destructive in the tight for their bulk. Expect more grinding rugby to break out. 3 weeks for Britz for his red,that was premium brand biccies,none of your tesco own brand orange clubs there.

When Phillips was being a * he'd generally be a discerning * and getting some gain by winding the player up.

When he was Farrels age he was still a bit of a bell end tbf.

FWIW Brown would be one of the first names on my England team sheet. Farrell adds nothing postive in terms of "aggression", I doubt a single opponent takes himthat seriously in that rgeard. A red card in a big game has been a risk for a while, his shoulder charge/late tackle on Giteau was poor discipline in a massive game. He was personally humiliated by Wilkinson and Giteau in the Heinekin semi and final - that showed in his late tackle at the RWC. During the Cardiff final Farrell looked the pedestrian "jobbing 10" he is at that level, shovelling passes like his father.

Farrell got himself and England so far, to go further we mire from 10 and Farrells development has stalled.

anagallis_arvensis - Member

When Phillips was being a * he'd generally be a discerning * and getting some gain by winding the player up.

When he was Farrels age he was still a bit of a bell end tbf.

Posted 2 hours ago #

Getting knocked out by bouncers on drunken nights out, wasn't he? Oh;and sharing sexy time with that blonde singer. The rest of his leisure time was mostly wasted. 🙂

Looks like injuries have forced Joe to pick a centre in midfield and McCloskey's getting a start at 12. 🙂

And Josh van der Flier at 7 too. 🙂

What a legend 🙂 Going back to CFH's post....

[img] [/img]

[url= http://www.pierrecarton.com/portfolio/30/les-gueules-cassees ]These are great pictures of former French forwards[/url]

England starters as per BBC. Itoje in the second row...

Mike Brown; Anthony Watson, Jonathan Joseph, Owen Farrell, Jack Nowell; George Ford, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Dylan Hartley (capt), Dan Cole, Maro Itoje, George Kruis, Chris Robshaw, James Haskell, Billy Vunipola

Getting knocked out by bouncers on drunken nights out, wasn't he? Oh;and sharing sexy time with that blonde singer. The rest of his leisure time was mostly wasted.

Couldnt really care about that, at least he wasnt scoring coke for journo's!

Couldnt really care about that, at least he wasnt scoring coke for journo's!

Your apostrophe looks like it might have been tackled by Jamie Roberts, it has been knocked back four words.

@medty thanks for that link. Went on a golf tour to SW Ireland with an ex rugby player with a nose like Tolon's. He'd jist spent £15k on his teeth but none of us where nearly brave enough to ask why he hadn't got his nose done