[Closed] 2015-16 rugby, world cup year

Who's the twit of an English commentator? He's watching a very different game to the one I'm watching, 10 minutes in. (David Flatman?)

Get ford off! He is stinky bad at the moment.

I'd even prefer Inverdale's Waffle to much of their studio rubbish.

you still have time to edit that ^^^ 😉

Meh. Farrell made the try and watson was right next to ford anyway.

yeah goddam glory hunter stealing watsons try 🙂

Good pressure and aggression from Italy

Will 60m fitness tell???

Poor discipline/composure from England so far

What a crock of shite from England.

I think the test of an England performance should be: "does Haskell look like their best player" 🙂

Ford is playing with the 9.5 shirt, just a delay between 9 and Farrell. He not really adding anything and you'd be better off with a second centre 😉 no idea how the backrow can't win a turnover when the ball is unchallenged on the floor- a few times they just needed to pick the damned thing up!

England are at 6's and 7's (ironically) and somehow look better without a set piece or structure which is a minuscule consolation

great try though.

Mr Angry eschewing the half time oranges in favour of arguing with the ref there.

Sloooooow to the breakdown.

Keeps the haters happy though - look on the bright side!

Edit: no this IS crap at the moment, sorry

Haskell is a lucky boy...

Nah, Joseph is a lucky boy 😀

hehehehehehe

🙂

skillz.
bounce couldn't have been better!

Look how useful having a centre is! 🙂

This B team looks quite good . A few nervous old buys after this

Look how useful having a centre is!

I wanted to say that wrecker but then Farrell went and bloody scored too the bugger 🙂 but yes, two proper ones would be even better

Gives EJ some interesting choices to make. Time to change the start sheet?!?

At least a good 30 mins or so. 😉

This B team looks quite good . A few nervous old buys after this

I think Itoje took more ball off the floor than the rest of ge team in the entire first half. How the hell has Youngs taken MoM?

Some pretty solid individual performances. I still don't think we'll beat wales, but it could be worse at this stage. Beating this Italy in Rome by that margin is a pretty good result. They ran France close enough.
Agree with THM, the young lads didn't look at all uncomfortable. First half excepted, fairly encouraging.

careful wrecker, that was almost a positive comment...

Get Slade and Manu back, give the likes of George, Itoge, Clifford and Hill more time on the field and I'll be happy. If it means taking a couple of losses on the chin, then fine.
I did find it interesting, following Mako's impact of the bench last week, Marler had a similar impact.
Youngs MOTM??? WTF????

I like this Ugo Monye fella.
more of him and less of Wilko, Woodward and whoever the presenter is...

I think France will be the ones to watch this tournament.. I was quite pleased Wales drew with Ireland as I was expecting Ireland to destroy us..

Then again Wales v england at Twickenham won't be an easy match ffo the Welsh.. But we beat them there last time..

Interesting tournament so far.. Discounting Italy and Scotland it seems anything can happen..

I don't see a GS this year. With Eng, Ire & Fra all rebuilding it could go anywhere.

Ummm, that was shite. The problem with games like this is that Joseph will be seen as the hero when in fact he butchered umpteen chances, that against a better side (no disrespect to excellent Italy) he will just be hammered. Must have been three chances to offload to a guaranteed try in the first half where he kept the ball.

North did the same in the Scotland game, Wales would have been much further ahead if he had offloaded instead of keeping the ball. His run at the end was against a knackered defence.

Seems to be a NH malaise.

Not confident that we will get any traction against Wales, Ireland or France. I'm not knocking Jones, I think these are issues he will have to solve.

In the words of one great man "trundlemuppets"..

North did the same in the Scotland game, Wales would have been much further ahead if he had offloaded instead of keeping the ball.

When was this?

Been out all day,worth watching? (I realise England won)

It was Ok. Some pretty nice tries, not thrilling, but had some action.

Should be watching this demolition of Saracens by Wasps. Scoreline is incredible..

I shall rewind the game and show you the clips, there were a couple of great opps when north had men outside when he went into the tackle without offloading,sorry to upset our worship, but he just aint that great at sharing the opps. Don't worry England are and have been for the last 10 years, even worse. Like I said, lauding Joseph against a beaten side is foolish, as would be giving North too much credit for his try. Let see either of them do that against NZ or Oz.

Should be watching this demolition of Saracens by Wasps. Scoreline is incredible..

Wasps scored the first 3 tries in the first ten minutes, bonus point inside of first 30 minutes. Now up to 64 points and still attacking..

Wish chiefs could have pulled this off. Insane.

Chiefs played poorly yesterday, running into players, not around them. Looked really pedestrian from where I was standing (behind the goal).
Tells you something when Cipriani held up players in the tackle & turned attacking ball over three times.

Who do we think is for the drop? Wuss looking decidedly dodgy.

Wuss have Sale next week, I suspect its going to remain tight between Irish/Wuss/Falcons right to the last day.

Aye, they were not on form yesterday. Still 2nd in the table, but a long way to go.
I'm loving the Premiership at the moment, snatching games from mates with BT, gonna go for it next season I think...

No pleasing some people - StephenJones-itis is alive and well ( "They won't beat the AB's playing like this")

We won. First half not great - second half much better, and the bench all added. 2 from 2, top of the table.

We won. First half not great - second half much better, and the bench all added. 2 from 2, top of the table.

I get you, but essentially we struggled against the easiest opposition. It doesn't bode well does it.

Rhys Webb just sparked himself out in his come back game! Good win for ospreys though.

toys192 - Member
Ummm, that was shite. The problem with games like this is that Joseph will be seen as the hero when in fact he butchered umpteen chances, that against a better side (no disrespect to excellent Italy) he will just be hammered. Must have been three chances to offload to a guaranteed try in the first half where he kept the ball.

When were these? I saw a couple of times where he could have passed it out but they were nothing that the cover defence wouldn't have sorted out. And it's better to keep the ball in play than concede a lineout (although maybe not with our breakdown work)

I was fearing the worst at half time but did remember thinking that despite playing absolutely awful we were still in the lead. Second half was as expected really, we unloaded a strong bench against a weakened and tired Italy side and ran away with it, nothing to write home about. We're playing some nice stuff when we get chance but the breakdown is a shambles at the moment, barely getting any clean ball! There was one particular incident where I think Joseph took it in, and nowell and Farrell cleared out over the ball (fair enough) but then the ball was just left open and out! Just stupid play.

Also what happened to our lineout?! Borthwick will be giving them a roasting over that!

When was the last time ANY 6N team put Italy away by half time? It just doesn't happen. We won by 31 pts and haven't conceded a try yet.

nowell and Farrell cleared out over the ball (fair enough) but then the ball was just left open and out!

Positives - scrum immense, Itoje, George, Marler all added from the bench, we scored 5 tries. None conceded.

Negatives - we didn't play the perfect game of rugby 🙄

So the big question is, are England once again world beaters, after scoring some tries against an Italian defence that did nothing for stereotype?

Aaaaaaaaabsolutely not. Haven't seen anything that would suggest it yet anyway. But I don't think we'll see where Jones really wants to take this team until summer.

This year should be about getting wins, for confidence, and introducing these potentially very good new players, for the experience. That will do for his first season.

So the big question is, are England once again world beaters, after scoring some tries against an Italian defence that did nothing for stereotype?

So the big question is, are England once again world beaters, after scoring some tries against an Italian defence that did nothing for stereotype?

No, we continue to bear the yoke of perennial under performers, not utilising the unique resources available to us, and being lucky to scrape wins against poor opposition. It's a tough life being English. I think we need some therapy after this awful start. It's embarrassing!

I'll take the win and score line against Italy, but it was getting close to squeaky bum time at half time. The Ford / Farrell axis just isn't working and Ford is trying too hard. I've noticed much more this year that he is get man handled in both attack and defence.

Haskell and Robshaw don't complement each other - it should be one or the other plus Kvesic and Billy. It'll be interesting to see if Jones does go after Underhill from the Ospreys for the summer tour. He seems to be getting a lot of praise and looked pretty handy against Exeter a few weeks ago.

I think we need to find / introduce an out and out 12 for the rest of the games especially bearing in mind some of the players that we'll be facing. I think Farrell at 12 is one of the reasons that Ford is getting smashed about so much - a proper centre will offer him far more protection.

The Ireland / France game was tedious - both teams showed very little ambition. Ireland had a massive injury list though and are missing some pretty serious players.

Personally, I think the championship will be won by Wales - they don't seem to be cutting loose like promised but look very effective with pretty solid defence.

Scotland seem to lack a cutting edge and don't have a killer instinct - they did play some good stuff though.

The Wasps / Sarries game was very, very entertaining. Wasps were very good and played with a lot of ambition and speed. Sarries looked massively flat and seemed to really miss their international players (more so than Wasps). I imagine that they'll only get stronger as the pitches start to dry out. A few big upsets this weekend - Worcs came close but like Scotland lack the ability to play for 80 mins.

Farrell is currently miles better than ford. A out and out centre (in my opinion 12s an 13s are interchangeable) would be preferable, but perhaps not for Ford as it should mean that he will sit on the bench.

Yes, this picking players out of position is always a bit odd. At the moment, can't see the F/F partnership being the LT solution.

Ospreys win in Cork, that is a good result 😆

Agreed Wrecker - Ford is out of form for both club and country. He always, when faced with a difficult period, goes to pot, really struggling to achieve the impossible. We won't change for the next match, Fazlet is there and will play at 10. I think that Cipriani, Slade, Manu and that wasps guy would be a far better midfield yes I know it's one person to many, but it does show who's waiting in the wings.
Front 5 look pretty good, amazed that with a malfunctioning lineout, it's all the jumpers fault, where as with Tom Youngs, it's all about the thrower. Nothing like a prejudiced view!
Back row is still poor, really, really need someone who can preoperl fetch, preferably 2 of them. The Hask and Robshaw look good in defence and poor on the ground, as expected.
Subs were very, very good. Gives me hope.....

Back row? I'll have Hughes, Billy and Dave Ewers please. OOF!!!!

Ford is out of form for both club and country. He always, when faced with a difficult period, goes to pot, really struggling to achieve the impossible.

He was forcing passes in the first half that just weren't on - a bit like Saints a while ago which handed them the victory.

Cips must be pretty cheesed off because he's had another good season behind a so-so pack.

Back row? I'll have Hughes, Billy and Dave Ewers please. OOF!!!!

Lots of power and ball carrying but lacks a proper openside. If the rumours are true, I think we'll see Underhill in there fairly soon.

But Imagine the devastation!!!
I do hope you are right mindmap, it seems Jones is far more open to blooding new talent than previous coaches.

Can't disagree with that longer post mindmap besides the Wales winning part. I think England will win for some reason. The rugby is rubbish but I can feel it building (plus Home to Wales and Wales' earlier draw are huge).

Ford may be out of form but Farrell beside him is just compounding things as you say. He is basically a extra pass between 9 and 10 (Farrell). What is the point of Ford if he isn't doing any 10 type stuff? I do wonder if the EJ selection of Farrell at 12 is a temporary appeasment of Farrell Snr. while secretly hoping he gets properly smashed against some of the monster centres to come for the last laugh 😀

I think Jones is trying to turn Farrell into Giteau Mk II - despite Giteau being more talented. Trouble is as soon as he's back at Sarries, he'll be back to 10 where he plays best.

We do seem to struggle for 12's and 7's - there seems to be lots of options in other positions but not many for these two. Hill from Exeter is a bit of a bosh merchant but I think he would have been worth a shout at least in the short term.

The summer tour will be interesting - the likes of Haskell, Robshaw, Cole etc will have played a lot of rugby and will be shot to pieces and will need a rest. Is that when we'll see a few more bolters in the team?

Underhill is a serious talent. England would be wise to cap him early before Wales bag him! 🙂

I think there is a bit of a hang up on what certain positions should or shouldn't be doing (e.g. 7 should play like a "7") when just doing the basics at times would suffice regardless of shirt number. As I said before, there were several times when the backrow just needed to pick the ball up but the basic skills and decision making were poor. Billy got the idea late on but Robshaw and Haskell didn't need to do much at times to win turnover ball as it was often unchallenged at their feet!

Underhill is a serious talent. England would be wise to cap him early before Wales bag him!

Welsh nan!
Not sure he is the fetcher you need. Good player but more of the same as far as England goes.

Welsh nan!

in my opinion 12s an 13s are interchangeable)

In theory, but history tends to say otherwise.

In theory, but history tends to say otherwise.

I think that Cipriani, Slade, Manu and that wasps guy would be a far better midfield

The whole chop & change we want Cipriane, no Burns, no... whoever's flavour of the week at fly-half & centre seems to move against building a team.
Now remind me how did our centre's perform in the last world-cup?
Was the criticism that we kept chopping and changing partnerships?
...Of course silly me, why would EJ not listen to 000's of armchair coaches.
Did England impress in their over-ambition & trying too hard against Italy - not really. Did any of the other 6N teams impress...nah.
If you've got a squad for a 6N championship should you stick with them and try to get them better OR swap 'em everytime the wind blows?

It reminds me of Stuart Barnes bleating about Will Carling at centre in the 90's. I think he's still bleating now the [@^- 😈

Welsh nan!

Aye I thought this was the case too, I

I have no idea to be honest. But its worked before

If a player isn't performing, he should be dropped to the bench. The team previously has had considerable criticism with not changing things which were not working and quite rightly so.
There is a 6N squad which includes Devoto, Manu and Daly, and EJ should be free to select whoever he thinks will perform from that pool of players.

The whole chop & change

If it works, sure keep everything the same but you have to find those players first. None of the combinations were world class so finding alternatives is sensible.

Manu stuff probably is living in the past a bit but he's the only properly ugly centre England have who is potentially capable of more than just defense. Lets not forget he also punched Ashton which has to be worth something

I'm not a huge fan of trying to fit someone else's model either. The whole "Farrell could be like Giteau" or "Manu and Slade could be like Nonu and Smith" type approach doesn't make the most of the players you actually do have and their individual abilities (or not!). The team needs some identity

Manu was / is great when on song but brings his own issues - i.e. flies out of the defensive line looking for the big hit. I think he needs a run of games to get back to full fitness / form before winning any more caps.

I'm not a huge fan of trying to fit someone else's model either. The whole "Farrell could be like Giteau" or "Manu and Slade could be like Nonu and Smith" type approach doesn't make the most of the players you actually do have and their individual abilities (or not!). The team needs some identity

Agreed - we need to select the combinations that work well for us and develop a style / identity from there.

I think the general idea though, that sticking with players and developing them, has to be better than constantly rolling the dice.

Take Wales for example, as was pointed out before they have more caps than a Dutch contraceptive factory. This is out of necessity due to less depth, but even if some of the most experienced players are not the worlds best, they are mostly damn fine and any NH team would have them. Not all of that is nature, lots of it is nurture..
In fact records show that Wales approach is equally and mostly better than Englands, Gatland has made more of his lot than we ever have, and arguably most of that success is due to lack of choice..

ooh I like it - You're shit which is why you'll get better...!

In fairness, and if you look back through my posts, you'll see I'm an utter Tuilagi fanboy, way back in 2001 when the big brother Freddy came across to Leicester, then watched in awe as a set of brothers became so utterly brilliant - damn near a team by themselves. Now there's the first son in the Leicester academy, that's astonishing.

I think Ford can be good, its just, at the moment, he's clearly not. However, should he be dropped due to this, I suspect not as that's going to knock him further. Christ knows what's happened to the Bath lot, although JJ looked to be full of beans by the end of Sunday.

Anyway, thanks to this thread I watched the Wasps demolition of Saracens. That was an enjoyable couple of hours. Premiership now looking really, really tight. Good for the game!

Cipriani back to Wasps from next year,why isn't he in the England squad THIS year?