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Claims that the Chosen One has told team mates his rugby [b]union[/b] career is over.
FTFY.
On the upside it does mean he gets to play for England in the 2017 world cup....
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*Chuckles*
OMITN, surprised it took so long for someone to bite! 🙂 If he wants to run off and play a minority sport instead, fair enough! 😉 It's annoying more than anything, though. So much pressure put on the poor lad, and there's no doubt he could have been a great rugby* player if he stuck at it.
*Can't help myself! 🙂
Sam training at bath today. Has he even made his mind up?
Haven't been paying a lot of attention to the domestic game so far dear Lord the Ospreys are awful
They are. Terrible defence vs Glasgow and no clue on how to attack.
<Ref bashing> Fitzgibbon saw Baker make an illegal tackle, no arms, and decided to card him. When the TMO replay was shown it appeared that Baker HAD used his arms but the player was slightly too far away and the Glasgow player basically tripped over Baker's fingertips. Nothing illegal at all, but Fitzgibbon being the arse of a ref that he is couldn't back down and had to give a penalty against Baker. 🙄
Lolz @ CFH
You and I know full well that in the valleys there is soccer and there is football.
Here you are CFH;
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🙂
Well some countries are getting their sevens squads sorted for the Rio Olympics. I saw Habana and Allende (among others) added to the Blitzboks and Sonny-Bill, Liam Messam and Ardie Savaea are in the ABs squad.
Anyone know what GB are doing? I know England getting 4th in the world series qualified a GB side but will that side be English or British? Is it gonna be organised or will it be the usual cluster***k that happens everytime we get a new team sport at the olympics?
the usual cluster***k that happens everytime we get a new rugby team
Yup.
slight tangent but I was channel hopping the other night and watched 'Urban Rugby' or whatever it was called with Ugo Monye and Marlon Yarde.
A really great idea, moving away from that 'rugby is for posh kids' idea (well in England anyway) and to borrow a football term for a moment some of those kids had 'unbelievable tekkers'. It was also great how they spoke to the kids about behaviour in school, at home etc. and teaching them values.
Really heartwarming
^ Thanks for the heads up, I missed that. School of Hard Knocks is worth a watch too for a similar type of thing (with Will Greenwood and Scott Quinnell). There are full episodes on Youtube/ Rugbydump IIRC
Rabbitohs resign Sam.
Good luck to him.
Good rugby player and good bloke.
Sauce?
If thats true its a slap in the face for all the Union people that put time in for him, and especially for Luther Burrell. He stole his place without merit then when he didn't get the glory he felt he'd paid for he's buggered off.
Lack of respect IMO, yeah good luck and hope he doesn't bother coming back.
On the Beeb now.
Can a revolving door slam?
Sauce - BBC website
Edit - dammit 13 seconds
Excellent news as it will be a very very long time before a League player is rushed into Union and into the England setup again. So my incling that the story may have been a scurrilous one put about by the Aussie press was wrong.
@loum, agree with your sentiments with the one correction that he's a very good League player and totally unproven in Union.
At least you clowns are consistent. Damned the bloke while playing for England and now you're damning him for going back to RL.
Now that your oh-so convenient scapegoat has gone back to RL, who are you going to focus your vitriolic rage on? Will England rise like a phoenix from the rubbish RWC campaign now the bad man has gone. Grow up! (ninja edit)
@El, I'm not daming him for going back to League, that's the best thing for England (Union). In fact I never criticised him for coming to give a Union a go that's his right. What's totally wrong was his selection for England or even Bath first XV
@jambalaya - I wasn't referring to your comments but to the committed anti-Burgess contributors on this thread. Opinions are fine but the hate is unneccesary.
Not sure there's much hate. Disappointment certainly. He could have been a great rugby player if he'd been given the chance to properly develop. He was railroaded in toothed game far too quickly. Who's to blame for that?
Well, I suspect that he should shoulder a little bit of the blame himself, but it must be hard to say you're not really ready!
Lancaster? Perhaps. Farrell? Likely.
It's a shame to see him go. Whatever the devious machinations that got him there for a year.
I think it's a real shame that he's gone back to league, I can understand why he has done it, but I think he had the opportunity to prove himself a fine forward that's now been lost. However as a league fan I am thrilled he's back, his brother Tom was superb on Sunday against NZ and I am looking forward to this weekend's match. Interestingly, Sam Tomkins withdrew from the England RL squad just before the series and was not replaced, so there is still the chance another unnamed player *cough* could be called into the squad...
Nobody hated SB. Most simply loathed the idiotic way that "Club England" dealt with the whole issue.
If he'd been left to mature at Bath and then picked on merit for England when ready it may have worked.
Being rushed into the RWC when clearly not worth his place and having proven to be incapable as a club centre with Bath having switched him to back row must have given Burgess the impression that English Rugby is totally amatuerish.
No wonder he's gone back. Careers are short. Good luck to him.
PS
Apparently the buy-out clause on the contract was substantially higher than the transfer fee Bath paid the Rabbitohs in the first place so Bruce Craig has made a few quid back.
Lancaster? Perhaps. Farrell? Likely.
And if it turns out to be true, his management for negotiating an RWC appearance into his cross code contract.
Personally as I said I think the fact that he hasn't attempted to play on and learn the game to come back stronger is disrespectful to his teammates and the guy that lost his RWC place to him. It smacks of Mr Grumpy throwing his toys out the pram. Instead he could have worked through the winter and come back stronger to stake a claim in the 6N. Could this be about his ego wanting to be in the RLWC?
What a pile of tripe!
I don't blame Burgess for going back to somewhere he's appreciated rather than stay somewhere where he's getting a load of shit for something that's not his fault. It would be a strange mentality to turn down playing for England if asked to. Shame for Bath because he could have become a mighty fine back row in time, and I agree a great shame for Burrell who should have been picked ahead of Burgess. But again, that's no more Burgess' fault than Burrell's.
To be fair he is better off in RL. I can't see the bloke wanting to learn the technicalities of bring in the forwards and he isn't fast enough for the back line. England management should be embarrassed by the whole affair and deserved to be sacked (unless they were told to pick him of course). If Bath made money on the deal then well done them.
Carter et al took the world cup to Jerry Collins grave. Nice touch..
+1 nbt and namastebuzz
I would have liked Burgess to remain in English rugby for the remainder of this season, but some of the vitriol from the press, from too many English rugby union fans and within the rugby union establishment itself has called for a thicker skin than any sportsman need bear.
So he's back at Souths with Tom and George. And he'll play in the 2017 Rugby World Cup where England have a very good chance if success.
After 120 years it's clear nothing has really changed in the English rugby union establishment attitude to the other code....
#blameburgess
It's a shame and indeed disappointing to see Sam go crawling back with his tail firmly between his legs. If anyone is to blame it's the England management for promoting him into the English squad far too early.
He [s]could have been[/s] is a great rugby player
He is a world class RL player, one of the best. Don't let your blinkered snobbery blind you to this fact.
Oh, and Sam didn't deny Luther Burrell a place in the squad, the selectors did. There is no argument against Burrell being a much better choice.
Sam go crawling back with his tail firmly between his legs
I don't think so some how.
I'm not sure where you've got the ammo to suspect every fan blames only Burgess. We're all aware of the rest of the shambles, his management is just part of the issue.
Coyote, we don't know but there are rumours of Lancasters hand being forced by Burgess contractual agreement. Should that be true it's a massive travesty. On the one hand why would a player ask for that, it doesn't display respect for your peers. On the other hand if it's the RFU / management that made the decision then shame on them.
Coyote bites! Excellent. 🙂
Anyway,
Sam didn't deny Luther Burrell a place in the squad, the selectors did. There is no argument against Burrell being a much better choice.
Agreed. And, I think Farrell may well have been the chief and/or "bossiest" selector in that situation.
Perfectly understandable decision
wrecker - Member
It's a shame and indeed disappointing to see Sam go crawling back with his tail firmly between his legs.
you're being a dick and I'm sure you know that. Go and have a word with yourself.
Up yours ****head
Now now girls...
Steady on lads... 🙂
Anyway...bit of a sorry saga. Good luck to Burgess. Not quite as mouldable as the plastic allegiances of some fans.
I do think quite a few wanted the whole Burgess thing to fail, to be honest. There are even a few contributors to this thread who plainly wanted to see it fail - they never bloody shut up about him.
Anyway, yes, nice touch to go to jc's grave with the cup. Sign, surely, that he was a good bloke.
nice touch to go to jc's grave with the cup. Sign, surely, that he was a good bloke.
Barnstaple RFC 2nd XV.
That's all you need to know.
There are even a few contributors to this thread who plainly wanted to see it fail - they never bloody shut up about him.
Sorry about that, but he became - along with Robshaw who also is a very good player and thoroughly decent bloke - a talisman of the Lancastrian era. The centres had been an issue for years, and what bigger player or stage could you choose to highlight that - is the problem.
I'll **** off now. 🙂
I'm not 100% sure about Robshaw, he has an annoying tendency to moan and question most of the ref's decisions. It could be his competitive spirit but can also be viewed as petulance. I suppose it's a fine line.
Barnstaple RFC 2nd XV.That's all you need to know.
Quite so. That is a very nice touch indeed. Which is more than can be said for the playground behaviour up there.
No doubt in my mind Burgess was given a very strong signal he'd be selected for the RWC when he crossed codes. We can't blame him for that and taking the opportunity for selection which was presented. As above this was an RFU issue and in particular the management team. It's very difficult to not see Andy Farrell as being at the centre of two of the biggest failings at the RWC, namely the whole Burgess saga and the selection of Owen at fly half after the first game when he had (quite rightly) not been first choice in the run up.
As for the centres being a problem, yes I think there was a selection / consistency problem to find the best combination but IMO we had a significant number of talented players to chose from with one in Tuilagi who ruled himself out.
@aa yes saw the photo earlier, very classy and a poignant reminder of the circumstances he and his wife where killed leaving their baby daughter.
Shame to see Burgess leave under these circumstances. The world cup will be overriding memory of his time in union, forgetting the fact that England's management selected a flanker with less than a season's experience to centre in a world cup.
I'd have liked to see him have a great season at 6 with Bath, then stick his fingers up at the England set up and go back to league at the end of the season.
After 120 years it's clear nothing has really changed in the English rugby union establishment attitude to the other code....
Or do they have the attitude that RL is a completely different sport to RU, that just happens to have the same origins and shares a ball?
Glad he is gone, he was a distraction and should never of made the squad let alone the team in the World cup. Good luck to him.
I'm not 100% sure about Robshaw, he has an annoying tendency to moan and question most of the ref's decisions. It could be his competitive spirit but can also be viewed as petulance. I suppose it's a fine line.
It isn't that. Its that he's a very good 6 playing out of position and the unbending strategy of including him there - amongst other things - highlights a failing of putting the right people in the right place to do the right job to the best of their ability.
Better to have taken the flak if benching a Captain that the "laughing stock" headlines that grace the sports pages this morning.
TBH I'm super happy he's backwith the Bunnies, all we have to do now is get his brothers fixed and have the 4 of them in the next England RL WC squad. Very disappointed with the RFU for mishandling him, and the press in making him a scapegoat for much of Englands woes.
Very much looking forward to his first hit up next NRL season.
press in making him a scapegoat for much of Englands woes.
Although, they haven't - show me a headline that says "Sam Burgess lost the RWC for England"
We've seen the reports so far, I reckon there much more to [s]be leaked [/s]come regarding the rest of the setup.
Look a Clive's damning of SL this morning...
I still don't understand what Burgess was supposed to bring quality wise to RU?
Still you have to laugh at England and all their complaints of Warrenball, but at least we know who are best players are and how we want to play. England after about 10 years still can't work out how they want too.
Screw sir clive, he is a total bell end, nearly ruined the Lions, ran away to football and now scrapes a living being sensational in the press. complete cocknocker
I do think quite a few wanted the whole Burgess thing to fail, to be honest. There are even a few contributors to this thread who plainly wanted to see it fail - they never bloody shut up about him.
You don't have to be much of a cynic to raise an eyebrow at the intentions of a big money move less than a year ahead of the RWC... he was always unlikely to stick around even if they won the RWC IMO. I don't blame Burgess necessarily as he was offered (and kept getting offered!) a great opportunity. I don't see him as a scapegoat either... more as a symbol of the shambles of a management setup as others have already said
show me a headline that says "Sam Burgess lost the RWC for England"
Read pretty much anything by Mick Cleary or Paul Hayward in the Telegraph. For instance:
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11893385/England-vs-Wales-Huge-Sam-Burgess-gamble-played-to-Wales-strengths-at-Twickenham.html ]Sam Burgess Gamble[/url]
Which neatly finishes with:
At this rate, his [Burgess's] World Cup will end at the pool stage - as it will for England.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/sam-burgess/11977922/Sam-Burgess-leaves-Bath-to-put-rugby-union-future-in-jeopardy.html ]Or how about this charming article and this line?[/url]
The supposed leader of men has succeeded only in leading many people up the garden path, notably Stuart Lancaster.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/sam-burgess/11901151/England-v-Australia-Sam-Burgess-is-naive-and-embarrassing-says-Gordon-DArcy.html ]And let's just ignore Gordon D'Arcy's completely OTT shrieking. [/url]
The thing is D'Arcy is right, not the fault of Burgess but you can't escape the truth of what he says.
A crap analogy would be putting a Top rally driver in a F1 car and expecting them to put it on the podium after a couple of races.
I have just read that D'Arcy article,what is it exactly that he says that isn't true? Face it,he was shit and almost a vanity project, an example of how all-powerful the RFU was,they could snap their fingers and the biggest English star in the league would come. Folk rattle on about how he could have been an international 6,yet he wasn't good enough for his club side at 6.
Scrammin Sam
That first article linked clearly states
To say Burgess’ departure was responsible for that unravelling is absurd. He was not the reason England lost but his selection was an error
That to me is pointing the finger at the management. But you also have to realise that he did nowt of note in that game, all I can remember him doing is one of the worst kicks in international rugby I've ever seen.
rugby union establishment attitude to the other code....
Seems to me the RFU's attitude was they where looking through such rose tinted spectacles at Burgess / League to the extent they fast tracked a guy with virtually zero Union experience into the most important tournament in the rugby world and put him in the starting lineup for the most important match. It seems to me the RFU thinks anybody can play international Union. Also I agree with @duckman about him playing at 6 or 7, he had even less experience there.
@dragon, yes a real dead duck of a kick and indicative of the lack of the most basic Union skills, Zinzan Brooke had a better boot on him.
Fast tracking him into the Engkand setup and the RWC smacked of absolute desperation. Rather than appearing strong or him being some kind of winning talisman we just looked really desperate when it was clear he was totally out of his depth
@aa 🙂
Sam who?
Seriously though, has he given any reasons for going back to the Sydney rabbits? Perhaps underestimated the technical challenges involved with the switch to Union. Perhaps was hacked off with the England management - start him one game, then drop him completely from the match day squad. Surely for the last pool game and looking to the future they should have given him as much game time as possible. Until he explains, it doesn't reflect too well on him with the timing.
Obviously Burgess should not be blamed personally for England's failure. Lancaster has to take the cop for this. The justifications for including him in the world cup squad were laughable including, "he has played a lot of the time (at Bath) at 12." So after 80 minutes club experience the lad is asked to line up at inside centre against Wales.
Does Rob Andrew exist?
BOD was on the BT Sport show Monday night and when he listed the pros and cons of Burgess staying/going he said it was a "no brainer".
All the Union players who criticised the whole fiasco were slamming the decisions made by the management, not the man himself. The views from the likes of Tindall, D'Arcy and Carling had some authority.
D'Arcy's piece was actually really interesting as well as being spot on.
It's a testament to Burgess that he managed to not look completely f***ing useless at centre - although playing next to Brad Barritt would help.
Does Rob Andrew exist
Certainly not when there is any sh1t flying about, his main contribution is to drain £500k out of the RFU annually
Scamper well he's allegedly getting £700k a year back in League, no one would pay him anything like that in Union and with the inevitable dropping from England he'd have no RFU top ups. JW used to make about that for Toulon and took a cut to stay on the last season or two, Burgess isn't worth more than £100-200 in Union. He also said he was missing his family. I take a guess that Carter is on a similar amount at Racing, so Carter or Burgess even money 😯
It's a testament to Burgess that he managed to not look completely f***ing useless at centre - although playing next to Brad Barritt would help.
Overriding Bath on the positioning of Burgess was one of the few genius management decisions this England team made... I mean, where else is he likely to see less action on the pitch aside from playing outside Farrell 😆
🙂
Exeter humped Leicester 😆 that makes me happy
No updates on the Scarlets result on the thread this weekend? How strange...
Nice win for Munster today at Edinburgh. 🙂 Connaught going very well this season.
Exeter humped Leicester that makes me happy
Oh god, they're playing the Ospreys in the Euro cup next week. On current form the Os will be hammered.
OH crap 😯 was going to say they won this weekend but it is only Zebre 😆
A few red cards this weekend.
Anyone else seen that Joe Lunch Boy is being tipped as a candidate for SPOTY?
Teh lolz!
Seren Y gem
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Burgess got a right hammering in the weekend papers. You know perhaps you could have done things differently when your fellow team mates tell you to do one.
CFH he was one relative brightspot, seems to look the part. Very far from a SPOTY though. Laidlaw would be the only home nations nominee IMO. It will be a run off between Jessica E-H and Hamilton, you read it here first (along with other statements of the bleeding obvious) 😉
Can people explain what Laidlaw did that was so great?
WTF is going on with Saints & Gloucester?
Glos looked awful yesterday, a classic example of what Austin Healey's been going on about whats wrong with English rugby, lots of tucking the head down & running into the opposition rather than looking for space.
AA - Laidlaw should win something for his refreshing no nonsense approach to kicking.
In the London Times today about the Engerland kit man being sacked for sending a share tip (which was dreadful)to the squad during the training camp. WTF?
In the London Times today about the Engerland kit man being sacked for sending a share tip (which was dreadful)to the squad during the training camp. WTF?
Does that sum up the England team in one succinct sentence? 😆
@duckman, you can't make this up can you. Was reported over the weekend Burgess lost the most. Kit man recommends speculative oil drilling company shares 😯 At least the rugby players where less daft than the footballers doing the aggressive film related tax dodging "investments"
At least the rugby players where less daft than the footballers doing the aggressive film related tax dodging "investments"
Bit unfair for a more reasoned take see [url= http://waitingfortax.com/2014/05/18/the-morality-of-tax-avoidance-the-journey-back/ ]here[/url].
you can't make this up can you
The heading for the RFU review (if it were written honestly and without arse covering of course)? 😆
No updates on the Scarlets result on the thread this weekend? How strange...
Only just caught up with the weekend's action... the refereeing wasn't a great advert for the Pro 12 and I'm glad I watched it on catch up so could fast forward all the stoppages!