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proud Englishman here but was cheering you on all the way and absolutely gutted for Scotland. That really was the pits at the end.
It is a shame because there have been some very good performances by the refs throughout the tournament until today.
Great game today, both sides played positive rugby
I am so conflicted. Felt the team did brilliantly and hate complaining about the ref but he is just a knob. So many poor decisions both ways, but the worst game changing ones against Scotland.
As Mcgeeghan said, would those calls been made against NZ?
oh and who though Michael Cheika's voice was going to sound like that?
Gutted for Scotland. Nothing else to add - but a restart with 30 seconds to go...surely you just pop the ball forward to required distance and compete for it. Once it went to Australian hands it was game over.
Well done and hard luck Scotland. You came closest which was what nobody expected.
Another depressing day for NH rugby.
Shouldn't the TMO have drawn the refs attention to the late hit on Hogg?
Heard on the radio that Joubert headed straight down the tunnell at full time, without waiting for the players or his assistants. I'd say the guy doesn't deserve much respect after that.
a) I never thought Oz were utterly awesome. Beating England and sorry to say it Wales, does not make you an awesome team.
2) I dont mean that to take anything away from Scotland as they were pretty damn stunning.
z) gutted, robbed.
Awesome performance by Scotland, the last time I could say that was in relation to their male curling team at the Olympics.
It should be obvious by now just how far Southern Hemisphere rugby is ahead, but at least Scotland threw everything at it.
South Africa now my favourites to win the tournament.
Tom Heathcoate had a really good game for the Warriors on Friday,three years ago we were so desperate that he was the saviour of the Scottish backs. That is a measure of what we have now,if we can cut out the stupid restart errors and the like,we may no longer be a joke in the 6N. We were the second best team today,the Aussie backs were fantastic, but we were the unflushable shite,they just couldn't get rid of us.There is room for Cowan and Hardie in our back row and that much vaulted Aussie front row came second best. So as much as that was a sore one,look what angry Vern has done in a fairly short period of time.
One last point...The Aussie player will be cited for that hit on Hogg,won't he?
One last point...The Aussie player will be cited for that hit on Hogg,won't he?
Don't be daft.
I never thought Oz were utterly awesome. Beating England and sorry to say it Wales, does not make you an awesome team.
Does no-one watch SH rugby?
The only things in Joubert's favour were picking up Genia's knock on and I thought he ran the breakdown better than Barnes and Owens where it seemed to be a free for all
Never cheered so hard for Scotland! Have to commended for yet again scoring a lot of points and keeping up tradition of interception tries 😀
Shouldn't the TMO have drawn the refs attention to the late hit on Hogg?
I think the main problem was it was only really Lamont doing an "X-Factor" sign at the ref... and when was the last time you took Lamont seriously 😳 😀
The person dealing with the citing will probably be an Australian and decide Hogg should get a life ban for getting in his way. Bitter and disappointed? No, not me.
Embarrassed to be a Saffa right now.
Yep, cos Wales have been awful haven't they 🙄 Not really trying to play the hard-luck card here but we have had one or two injuries and the general consensus would seem to be we played 'heroically' and with heart.Scotland stepped up in a way that neither England or Wales could
Meh Hogg likes dishing out late cheap shots got no sympathy for him.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Flash you are Solomon and I claim something
£2.50?
Yep, cos Wales have been awful haven't they Not really trying to play the hard-luck card here but we have had one or two injuries and the general consensus would seem to be we played 'heroically' and with heart.
Dont worry no doubt now scotland are world beaters again no doubt we will see them win at least 4 six nations games between now and the next world cup!
Yep, cos Wales have been awful haven't they
Let's get a bit perspective. Wales snuck past a very very poor england team by 3 points. They then played 2 decent sides and lost to both. If anyone has done the NH/home nations proud, I'd say it was the scots. That was a terrific battle against a good australian side. Well done, you should be proud of yourselves.
Let's not forget Wales came close until the dying minutes too. There is just more expectation on (even an injury ravaged) Wales than Scotland.
Ireland got hammered by an "easy" team that many here were convinced would be a walkover but that's not to say Ireland aren't still a great side.
Let's get a bit perspective. Wales snuck past a very very poor england team by 3 points. They then played 2 decent sides and lost to both. If anyone has done the NH/home nations proud, I'd say it was the scots.
That logic of comparisons of different games doesn't work. Scotland lost pretty easily to RSA who themselves were beaten by Japan. Are Scotland worse than Japan? It's a tournament and all that matters is how far you progress.
I think most would say 3/4 of the Home Nations did us all proud, Scotland very much included in this
Liking your work, Stoner.
I didn't claim we were brilliant or anything like that. I merely questioned the quoted comment - that Wales wouldn't have turned up. You're right though, we should have lost the game against England but whatever happened in that last 20 mins or so a lot seemed down to wanting it more. We couldn't score against Australia when we should have - we lost to 5 Foley kicks and no tries whereas Scotland conceeded 5 tries. I thought we'd lose heavily yesterday so as gutted as I am we lost I was proud of our showings all things considered. Shouted for the Jocks today and genuinely gutted for them.Let's get a bit perspective. Wales snuck past a very very poor england team by 3 points. They then played 2 decent sides and lost to both. If anyone has done the NH/home nations proud, I'd say it was the scots. That was a terrific battle against a good australian side. Well done, you should be proud of yourselves.
Interesting...some people think they're only one or two tweaks from being world beaters!very very poor england team
£2.50?
NO! 😥 Let him have the whole £5.
Well I watched those games, and aus were the better team vs Wales. The saffas aren't rilliant, and I'd bet on nz putting 40 on them, I honestly thought Wales would beat them. As it turned out, sa were the better team. I'm not rubbishing Wales, I just don't see that they are much better than england (who aren't very good).
Interesting...some people think they're only one or two tweaks from being world beaters!
I think you'll find that boat has sailed.
Hey, it doesn't matter does it. We're all so proud of how we did. If I see another ****ing #shoulder2shoulder tweet after an abject loss to a side we've beaten 5 times in a row, I'll...I dunno...I'll tweet something angry. But I'm still proud.
****s sake...4 SH sides have just pissed into the QFs. England were a shambles. France were a shambles.
Am I proud? Am I ****. 😡
Quick someone tweet.
Matt Dawson is standing #shouldertoshoulder (with the Scots)
Matt Dawson @matt9dawson
Craig Joubert you are a disgrace and should never referee again!! How dare you sprint off the pitch after that decision!!! #RWC2015
Well, I wouldn't see that arsehole's tweets. He blocked me. 😀
It does say quite a lot about the southern vs northern game doesn't it? All the sh super 14 (is that right) teams are now contesting the last 4 places, come Feb when some bloody pundit states that the 6 nations is the tournament in the world, I hope he gets rotten fruit thrown at him.
Possibly the only way out of this is a Euopean league, although I in no way can see this happening in anything resembling my lifetime!
Ahh bugger. Still, at least Tigers won today!
Wales snuck past a very very poor england team by 3 points. They then played 2 decent sides and lost to both. If anyone has done the NH/home nations proud, I'd say it was the scots.
Whilst scotland beat Japan and Samoa. England and Wales are a fair bit better than scotland
Perhaps, but that just makes their performance today even more admirable.
All the sh super 14 (is that right) teams are now contesting the last 4 places
"Rugby Championship" is the international tournamount with 4 SH teams, Super 15 is the SH club league 😀
Possibly the only way out of this is a European league, although I in no way can see this happening in anything resembling my lifetime!
You still have the issue of the game and often rules/ refereeing developing differently in the two hemispheres not to mention cultural strategy differences largely influenced by weather and pitch conditions I guess. Pitting more international European teams together in a league won't change the style of rugby where windy stadiums and rain are the norm vs hard pitches, with often hotter weather and even altitude encouraging a huge kicking game.
I'm all in favour of an international (summer) season
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😀
South Africa now my favourites to win the tournament.
I can't see anybody beating the Kiwis.
All the sh super 14 (is that right) teams are now contesting the last 4 places
"Rugby Championship" is the international tournamount with 4 SH teams, Super 15 is the SH club league
But those players are mostly cutting their teeth in the super 15 before moving on to the championship.
Oh, and NZ is often bloody wet, seems to not hamper them too much! Agree with the nh / sh refring styles though, seem to be quite different. Actually, it's a stupid game if the refs style needs to be a pivotal part of your decisions on the pitch. I'm going to learn me to like Wendy ball.
Well I'd been getting fed up with all the comments (including a few on here) questioning whether Scotland deserved a place in the quarter finals.
I think I can safely say the answer was yes. If fate had landed ever so slightly differently we would have been worthy semi finalists.
Loosing hurts, but getting some pride and respect back in the way we played - that helps soften the loss a little. Just need to consolidate with a decent 6N and move on from there.
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Oi! You! In the white! Get back here!
Missed 2nd half on Eurostar. Can't believe the result as got in train on HT.
Just watching highlights now, but sounds like a proud Scottish performance. Had a great train full of Scots out of London. Great spirits despite being gutted. A real laugh. good on them
Just shown the Maitland sinnbinning - v harsh.
Scotland and Wales both fronted up and were heroic in defeat for different reasons. Scotland deserved to be in the semis - never mind the quarters.
Ireland thought they were world beaters but turns out they were just average.
France shambolic.
England aren't even worth a mention.
[quote=CaptainFlashheart ][img] [/img]
Oi! You! In the white! Get back here!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p035krs0?
mboy - Member - Block User
and the final penalty... Not even questionable. Should have gone to the TMO, who would (should) have seen it came off an Aussie player last...
Can't go to TMO for offside
That was a fantastic Scottish performance, but they should have won it. Great to see them playing a marauding fast paced game, back to the DNA of their game, other nations should take note especially the French.
wrecker - Member
I'm all in favour of an international (summer) season
If that means no more bloody cricket, I'm in. 🙂
Great game Scotland v Oz.
Much beer was drunk in this house.
My side won. 🙂
And my side also lost. 🙁
Penalty kick was for illegal play. Penalty decision to TMO if accidental off side its a free kick or scrum if deliberate penalty. He went to tmo for lots of things but not in the last two minutes.
Anyway result has a win for Australia.
The more interesting reaction seems to be jouberts post whistle sprint.
Incidentally, did anyone notice the crawl by the Aussie centre for his try?
I know you're allowed to place the ball, but pulling yourself forwards on your left arm before placing the ball with your right looked like illegal play to me - however I haven't played in ten years they may have changed the rules.
I'm not defending his performance and I was absolutely gutted that Scotland lost in such circumstances but apparently Joubert ran down the tunnel because he had bottles thrown at him. If true that's a disgrace and there's no room for it in this sport.
Incidentally, did anyone notice the crawl by the Aussie centre for his try?Hmmm, realtime I wouldn't have said so..... but in slowmo it looks different. The arm just stretched out but he had a little wriggle first.
From a few pages back.
Saw it again on highlights and in real time no; he just seemed to bounce as he hit the ground and then stretched. Slow mo it looks like a little crawl on his elbow. But then again, the deliberate knock on was instinct in real time and then looks far worse in slowmo. Consistency?
The first replay certainly looked as though he had a wee wriggle.
Joubert got a lot of things wrong on both sides and was possibly too dependent on the tmo for most of the match.
I could take a loss but we didn't deserve the last few minutes.
After the Hogg challenge the Aussie kick is directed to the hole left by him not being there
As Flatman pointed out in the commentary, as long as your torso doesn't move forward again you're ok to stretch out your arm and place the ball.
The real problem was Scotland messing up their lineouts in the closing minutes, having been pretty good all game long.
I thought that Aussie try looked fine. An arm stretch, nothing more.
As for the bottles throwing, that wasnt picked up by any commentators?
They mentioned on the radio about a bottle being thrown after he had left the pitch but he didn't spend long on it once he'd blown the whistle.
onehundredthidiot - Member - Block User
Penalty kick was for illegal play. Penalty decision to TMO if accidental off side its a free kick or scrum if deliberate penalty. He went to tmo for lots of things but not in the last two minutes.
World Rugby Laws state:
‘The TMO can only be used in the following circumstances:
Determining the grounding of the ball in-goal for a try or touchdown and/or whether players were in touch or touch in goal before grounding.
Determining whether a kick at goal has been successful.
Confirm if an infringement has occurred in the build-up to a try or prevention of a try (infringement must be within two phases of the try or touchdown).
Considering acts of possible foul play.’
Lets take a step back and consider the facts. Only TJ would have thought scotland could win prior to kick off!!
Surely if Laidlaw had said, "ref I think we might have knocked that on deliberately, do you want to check?", Joubert could have gone to the TMO.
We need to think faster.
AA - agreed. About the first time I've agreed with you. In fact if you'd offered me a heroic performance to come within one point after watching the other 3 QFs I'd have taken it.
As one of the few people on this thread whose team are still in it, can I just say, thank you Scotland, thank you very very much. And bad luck ! You really didn't deserve such a shitty exit. But well done for softening up the Aussies.
Hels - I think we showed the world that if you target Foley he gets nervous - both in defence and kicking. Not quite nervous enough of course, but if he'd kicked decently the game would have been very different.
I don't think it was all on Foley, the way Scotland played forced almost the whole team in to mistakes. Pretty much all the Scotland points were soft from an Aus point of view. That's not saying Aus had a poor day but I think Scotland did very well to knock them out of their stride and pressure them in to mistakes
Given the last few performances of the top 3, I'd say the AB's are odds on to keep thier title at this stage.
France - what can I say - I was at a party with 3 French people on the room, felt pretty sorry for them by the end. I did learn a new French word though: "corbillard" as in "corbillard pour l'equipe Francaise" so every day is a school day.
Just shown the Maitland sinnbinning - v harsh.
That's a yellow every day of the week. And if he hadn't blocked the pass then Mitchell would have taken the pass with no defence in front of him. I've seen refs check for penalty tries in exactly that situation.
Interesting that I've got a quite different view of the game from a lot on here - but I wasn't listening to the commentary so wasn't influenced by biassed presenters.
Lifer that's the thing penalty for for play, if accidental then free kick or scrum. We did ourselves no favours but it was gauling to say the least. Last from me on it. Refs arm went out for advantage before the offside player touched the ball, surely no advantage scrum if deliberate foul play tmo.
surely it would only be gauling if they were playing France
🙂
[quote=IdleJon ]That's a yellow every day of the week. And if he hadn't blocked the pass then Mitchell would have taken the pass with no defence in front of him.
But he's allowed to block the pass. If it hadn't gone forwards it would have been fine. If it went forwards accidentally, then that's also fine (well they'd get a scrum, but no yellow). The ref judged that he knocked it forwards deliberately in order to block the pass - which implies that there was no way to block the pass without knocking it forwards [b]and[/b] that he knew that. I'm not a Scotland supporter (I don't have much antipathy towards Australia either, so fairly neutral), have no idea what the commentators were saying at the time, and it looked a very harsh decision to me. In real time I was expecting a scrum for the knock on, but it looked like he was trying to intercept the ball legally.
I have to admit I do see your point though, and I'm torn on it, because I can see the argument that the try was prevented by the knock on, and it's something I'd been thinking about, but it wasn't how it seemed as I watched it live.
If you go for the ball with one hand as the last man then it'll always be called deliberate
25 years ago I thought the deliberate knock on law was stupid, and I still do. Should just be a scrum for a normal knock on. If there's a risk of an interception then it's a risky pass which the passing player should consider. I think it's daft to penalise a player for attempting an interception, but if he tries and fails and knocks on then a scrum as normal is a fair outcome.
Just caught up on the thread. What an epic day at Twickenham yesterday, right up there with the weekend in Marseilles for 2007 QF's. Argentina Ireland on the big screen and then a classic to stand alongside France's defeat of NZ in 1999
I thought Argentina had a chance but never thought for a moment they'd come out as they did. How many times have we seen a terrific fast start from Ireland put teams under pressure, the tables where turned completely. I'd have to think the hard school that the RC is has moved them onto another level, always strong upfront they now threaten with the backs. Formidable and they have another semi-final to add to 2007 and who is to say they can't go one better. Any team would miss POC and we can wonder whether he might had steadied the ship a little sooner. Smart and unexpected (?) tactics from Argentina to move the ball wide so early, very bold.
Scotland, the Northern Hemisphere team of the tournament by some margin for that performance. I couldn't have cheered louder or longer for Scotland than I did, I think the first and last time that will ever happen at Twickenham. The sin bin was extremely harsh, I only saw it on the screen once but it didn't at all look worthy of a yellow card (@idle he had a very long run in, not a definite try at all). The Aussie try looked fair enough, in front of us and a simple reach forward. Then we have the fateful line out. A long throw was madness, whatever happened afterwards throwing to the back with the reserve Hooker in such a situation is a very high risk manouver. The TMO issue, we have tmo checks for offside on trys (they checked the Argie score) how can you not check a penalty with 2 mins to go in a QF. Joubert is a disgrace, I've no doubt we'll get some YouTube montages in the same was as we have for the 2011 final where the refused to give France numerous penalties in the last few minutes. The guy has a track record and it's not a good one. I very much hope we don't see him again. @steven there are no glass bottles in the Stadium, only a few plastic ones. I'm not sure anything would have been thrown at him
The Northern hemisphere teams need to look at themselves very honestly. They where far off the pace and at a home tournament in their backyard. In the last few years (or longer in some cases) wins against the SH sides have been rare and when we come to a real tournament instead of a "friendly" we've been far off the pace.
To take the deliberate knock on thing to its logical conclusion - any forward pass would be a deliberte knock on and should result in a yellow card. That would be stupid though - just like the law as it is.
I think it's daft to penalise a player for attempting an interception, but if he tries and fails and knocks on then a scrum as normal is a fair outcome.
or reduce the sanction to a free kick (i.e. free restart to the attacking side)
I'm not sure even a penalty would seem unreasonable in the way the yellow card did (given the intent, outcome etc. wasn't very different to things which penalties are awarded for)
25 years ago I thought the deliberate knock on law was stupid, and I still do. Should just be a scrum for a normal knock on.
But when the attacker is through for a clear try, it's not fair to allow defenders to gain an advantage (ie re-organise for a scrum) by deliberately spoiling it. Or is it? Is the fact that the defender was able to get a finger to it a legitimate act of defence? It works at lineouts after all, you're allowed to try and spoil.
The problem for me with the deliberate knock on rule is the same as the use of the word 'wilful' in cricket. It requires an assumption on the part of the officials as to the intent of the player. Mind reading mid game?
Maitland was never going to catch it therefore it'll always be called as a professional foul (harsh wording but effectively what it is I guess), even though it'd be everyone's instinct to go for the ball in that situation
The intentional knock on rule is a great bit of double jeopardy. It ensures that defenders can't butcher scoring chances on a whim (you better be [i]sure[/i] you can catch it)
If we look back at Campese in the 1994 final that was a deliberate knock on. I though the one yesterday was not even close to a yellow card IMO. We have professionals to make these decisions. What sealed the game was the no TMO decision at the lineout, that's crazy. I've no doubt the laws will be changed on TMO calls after the RWC. It's been somewhat of an experiment this time and it's been found wanting. The conversations with the TMO should not be broadcast, it only adds to the pressure.
@wrecker the knock on rule as applied is a bit daft, you can catch a pass if you are behind the attacker (ie "offside") but if you try and catch it from an onside position and fail it's the difference between knocking it up or forwards is the difference between brilliance and a yellow card.