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So, Wales beat Fiji, England beat Aus, Aus beat Wales, but eng & Wales qualify because Cheika didn't think about bonus points?
England beat Aus - aye, good one.
Anyhow - enjoy your beers, welsh fans. I can't even drown my sorrows as I have to go to work and fly home from Japan - thank god nobody on my crew is welsh!!!!!
England fans - if you turn it into ITV+1, you're still winning.....
dantsw13, I'm spending ten or so hours of tomorrow going the other way, ex-LHR T5. Will raise a glass to you over lunch!
Just watched it on catch up. Holy shit.
I thought at first it would be a nail biter, then at half time I was paying England compliments. I reckon they played top notch rugby in terms of approach and attitude, best I've seen them.play in ages. Tactical mistakes though.
Wales needed a prod though.. Half time, then those injuries ignited a bit of anger and it turned the tables.
JohnClimber - Member
England fans - if you turn it into ITV+1, you're still winning.....
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Bloody Jonny May, completely useless etc etc 😆
grahamt1980 - Member
Truly satisfying to see all the gloating come out so soon.
Wales travelled to Twickenham short of how many 1st choice players? Wasn't it 5 from the intended squad. They fielded an inexperience wing, the 2nd choice scrum-half, an injured full-back and a massively under-powered front row. They then lost another 3 players through the game.
And won.
In Twickenham.
England had all the advantage.
I think a little gloating is allowed before Australia rip Wales to pieces. 😆
(England need to be more than a little concerned about the selection, and the performance and replacement policy.)
England need to be most concerned about the penalty count. You'll never win if you're giving 20+ points away through pure stupidity.
Incredible and through sheer determination the right result.
England must wonder what they have to do after 60 minutes of dominance pegged back only by the glorious boot of Dan Biggar.
Gwlad!
Well done Wales
Courtesy of the excellent Dai Lama (Yes, he lives again!)
You won't believe this but a GIANT just walked by my window. He's now curled in a ball at the end of the road, crying
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North slapping Brown on the back was my fav moment.
Oh, and Sam Burgess done did some kicks.
Please don't remind me 😯
A few shots of Brown loosing his rag tonight!
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Again to quote Dai,
Look at him. He's like a pound shop Mitchell brother.
TCUP fail and replacement cock up +gazillions
When the long range W penalty went straight through the middle I felt it was going to be one of those days!!
Poor to hear singing during penalties - Twickers is usually better than that - and it was bloody SWLC as well.
Massive congratulations to Wales to win a game they should not have had a look in. Smart work for the try. England substitutions (injury related or not) had a bigger impact than the Welsh. A game we should have seen out being 10 up with 20 to go. Line out call was totally idiocy. Just look at prior line out which was dire with a terrible throw. My 6 pence is Farrell didn't fancy the kick. In any case a stupid call.
I thought JW and other studio pundits where spot on with their analysis of the poor defensive decisions for the Welsh try, rushed up and created space behind.
Australia is now a knock out game for England. Only cancellation is I could see Fiji nabbing a result against a depleted Wales and they will be very much second Favourites to Australia.
thegreatape - Member
Well done WalesPOSTED 51 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
Don't speak with your mouth full,you'll spray pie everywhere!
About to sneak downstairs and watch it. Sounds like a tense,tight game and fair play to the English supporters on here for not going into "Steve Walsh" mode.
Fiji game is far from a foregone conclusion for Wales, and they are unlikely to beat Oz. This group isn't over yet.
Don't speak with your mouth full,you'll spray pie everywhere!
Eh? I don't remember making any predictions about this game.
That was sadly predicable.... Fair play to Wales, a great result from a depleted side.
Interestingly I've had an 'insider' from a rugby company o er for dinner. The amount of money on offer to a certain leage player with a guaranteed wold cup place is apparently astronomical, mainly via a central contract type arangment. Sadly I feel it's tainted the entire team ethic, particually as he's mainly there because of his 'leadership' qualities. One things for sure, it's not for his ability in a union side!
That's the way England need to play rugby,having decided that,they need to put aside a build up of trying to entertain and do more of the same against Oz. Oh,and a captain the players follow would be good. Robshaw played well,but doesn't seem to lead. I also think the Welsh experience told in the end,their players were long enough in the tooth to not wilt, But God know how they will reach that level again. They also need a scrum,that was terrible today. I think Oz will win the group,but I suspect England may beat them.
thegreatape - Member
It's not arrogance mate, it's just the confidence that comes with knowing we are fundamentally better at the game. Your occasional lucky wins do not stand alongside the ongoing higher levels of play we have maintained over several decades.POSTED 1 DAY AGO # REPORT-POST
Oops... Lucky Wales eh?
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Oh dear. Go back and read that again, in the context of what was written before and after it, and see if you can work out what was going on.
fiji game is far from a foregone conclusion for Wales, and they are unlikely to beat Oz. This group isn't over yet.
This is true, but this morning is lovely. Off to take junior to rugby training
Nice backtrack ape,still; always next weekend eh? Enjoy you Sunday but maybe avoid the papers.
Williams concussed ( how can they tell?) Amos dislocated shoulder and other Williams with a knee injury ( that was the worst looking) Time for AA to post up that article on ordinary Welshsies offering their help. Wood may be on the naughty step as well because of the Williams head knock,according to the London Times. They are also saying the kick to touch was Robshaw call.
It's gone over your head hasn't it 🙂 Keep thinking, you'll get there in the end. If you're still struggling at lunchtime I'll help you out.
What an amazing atmosphere at Twickenham last night. I am fortunate to have seen England play there many times but have NEVER seen the fans get behind England at HQ like they did last night.
Forget Robshaw's final minute penalty call we kicked away too much possession and gave Wales too many penalties. Fair play to Wales they made everything England gifted them count.
In the cold light of day the pool of death gets even more intriguing. 2 tough games for Wales remain with an even more injury depleted squad. The first against Fuji this Thursday.
A must win game for England against the Aussies on Saturday.
There is every chance this group will be decided on points difference.
From where I was sat Burgess looked way out of his depth last night. This stupid experiment needs to stop. Get the ball to England's wings. May looked dangerous few times he got his hands on the ball.
Ha! Just looked at the geocaching thread,sorry ape,but this thread contains posts like that every year with no irony whatsoever. My humblest etc...
Not good news for either team on the way back to the hotel
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No bother mate. Now that's all cleared up I'll go and get on with my crying 🙂
In the cold light of day, england blew that so badly and for me it comes down to certain players having some serious issues. Burgess shouldn't of been on the pitch, I think there is some weird shit going on behind the scenes that got him into the squad let alone picked. It may come out in the wash but there are some strange rumors flying around.
Brown was out of control most of the match, needed a Johnson like figure to tell him to calm the **** down and do his job. Robshaw doesn't carry that authority.
Who was making the decisions on the pitch?
England lost that game more than Wales won it. The current set ups problems have been obvious for months if not years:
- mediocre management
- a captain who makes bad decisions and doesn't seem to inspire
- a lack of creativity in the backs (which wasn't helped by dropping Cipriani)
- niggling disciplinary problems, especially when under pressure
I think Australia might complete the demolition job Wales started in the last ten minutes. It's never the same when the hosts are knocked out but I still think the Irish could reach the semis.
I think there is some weird shit going on behind the scenes that got him into the squad let alone picked. It may come out in the wash but there are some strange rumors flying around.
This. How he could be selected when they didn't even know his position. Some BIG promises made to him to make the switch?
Back on Wood booting Williams in the head... Wasn't it also him who kicked North in the head recently too? He should have realised by now that his kicking is about as effective as Burgess's and not worth the effort 🙂
Oh and if it hasn't already been said.... Biggar was simply awesome. It wasn't too long ago you wouldn't have fancied his chances for the penalty on half way but he made it look easy!
Aye predictible it was, I knew we were dreadful and this was expected. This might be the kick up the arse we need, but I expect we will leave the group with a whimper. Look forward to 6N now and hope that a new management team will change things in a sensible manner. Lancaster is dead to me now..
I've said it many times before, Welsh passion is a phenomenal thing, they often cannot sustain this level against anyone but us. Maybe we need to learn to hate a bit more?
Liam Williams Twitter suggests he was up and reasonably OK by the end of the match. Hope it nothing long lasting and his WC can continue
No,that was the Wasps 8 wasn't it? He was cited and knighted. Why can't England not just play the way they can? Having two centres was a first for them in 2003,but I suspect they would have won it anyway. At least they looked like England last night. Still, if they don't qualify; they will get in a new coach with 4 years to get it right.
Enough talking about losers, the blue machine marches on this afternoon. I am sure all the England supporters will tune in and wish us all the best.
Scotland should do well against the 'mericans, more worrying are their appointments with Samoa and SA.
Canada scored some great tries, very unlucky against Italy.
I want to support USA since we have a dual nationality household here but their first game was pretty meh, and I find myself rooting for Scotland today, I have a lot of sympathy for them.
ack on Wood booting Williams in the head... Wasn't it also him who kicked North in the head recently too?
It was Attwood who booted North in the Wales England game in the six nations.
I thought Lancaster saying it was on on pitch decision to kick for the corner says a lot about the set up. Gatland for all his faults would take the blame to take pressure off his captain and team.
Here's a thought - maybe England got beat because Wales were the better team on the night. What is it with England fans thinking that they are the best team in the world at every sport? 😉
What is it with England fans thinking that they are the best team in the world at every sport?
I didn't read anyone saying this. The general feeling is, with the biggest Union in the world by membership we [b]should[/b] be world beaters, but are often shite, I think we all seek answers for this. It is obvious that we got beat by the better side, otherwise we would not have been beaten.
It's funny, isn't it, how when the England 3/4s are looked at it's always Burgess and not the ineffectual Barrit that cops the blame. Burgess had one loose carry, made a poorly executed but ultimately not dangerous kick and snubbed out Jamie Roberts all the time he was on the pitch.
I'd be asking more questions about Englsnd's inability to turn the breakdown into more effective attacking play - watch the SH sides and their ability to disorganise defences and keep them disorganised. I'd be looking at the loose forwards and the scrum half TBH.
The idea that Burgess, who left the field with England leading, is any way solely or materially culpable for that loss is absolutely laughable.
Although a big problem that blights all england play is resorting to Tindall ball, not distributing, thinking you are going to break the line and score a try under the gaze of a princess and get a medal for it. When they should be playing like the AB's, and always getting the accurate offload, because there are support runners behind you in every qaudrant.(whilst am dreaming can I have a bike that climbs like an Xc whippet and descends like a Dh bike, and magically lose 4 stone, and fill my bank accoun t with gold)
@Freester glad you enjoyed it. Agree totally regarding Burgess. Is he a leader ? There is a difference between shouting your mouth off and having respect of the other players. I find it hard to believe he has that with his total lack of experience in Union.
@aa I bet there was a wonderful atmosphere at the rugby this morning with a few sore heads and horse voices 🙂
According to the Guardian Rosbshaw spoke to both Farrell and Ford before deciding for the corner. Supposedly he said they may have gone for 3 if the kick had been easier, as I posted before I think Farrell didn't fancy it. England's selection and choice of style did cost them as they should have been well clear points wise. How Wales won a game in which they where so out played at the scrum is quite incredible, England definitely kept them in the game with too many daft infringements particularly the two penalties for not supporting themselves at the breakdown. Bigger was immense not least a 48m penalty to win it. JW posted a nice Tweet is his support
[url= https://mobile.twitter.com/JonnyWilkinson/status/647890855089565696 ]JW / Bigger[/url]
I still pick England to beat Australia (although it's going to be a massive pressure game for us) and with Figi game on Thursday Wales have less time to recover, I cant see a bonus point win and it could be a banana skin plus it will be another tough physical game leading into Australia match. Winning the group was always going to be tough but important to avoid South Africa in the QF
@ourman - Burgess want responsible for the loss but his and Farrells selection was IMO responsible for the way we played and for the fact that Wales where able to stay close. I can't imagine if the England mgmt had known the Welsh scrum would be so poor (arguably they should have done) they would have picked the same side. We missed a probable try when Youngs (?) should have shipped the ball out to Watson rather than take a tackle.
Rubbish to say England supporters believe we are the best at every support, certainly not rugby nor this RWC where NZ and RSA are far stronger. We have the largest Union not least as we have a population of 50m but rugby is not the preeminent sport it is in NZ, RSA and Wales for example. We should have won that game but that's the beauty of sport, the Welsh where heroic and well deserved that win.
I thought Australia looked better up front in their last game than they have for a while, including the scrum. I think having Pocock and Hooper in the back row is a very smart move. Apart from the silly penalties issue, England looked their usual lacklustre self at the breakdowns yesterday. I can't understand why this is though.
Freester - Member
I think there is some weird shit going on behind the scenes that got him into the squad let alone picked. It may come out in the wash but there are some strange rumors flying around.
This. How he could be selected when they didn't even know his position. Some BIG promises made to him to make the switch?
As I posted late last night (after a few beers, wines and drams, so not very eloquently) I had dinner with a chap who helped broker the union switch for burgess, there's a lot more than Bath having deep pockets. there's no way he wasn't getting picked for the squad and at least a few games. Stinks really, however as posted above, he was certainly the best English centre last night. Barrett was awful, again. Utterly useless in attack (which is a given) but also now being found out in defence.
As for the best team in the world comments, well, clearly.in this thread (which had quite a few England fans), there's going to be quite an outcry against such a poor performance as we have get again failed to live up to our hopes and after several years at the helm, our coach still seems completely clueless about what our best team is.
I certainly haven't heard anything other than congratulations for Wales who were clearly the better team last night.
I hope that the refereeing settles down a bit as the tournament goes on. Interpretation always plays a part of the game, but at the moment we have some refs who are phoning a friend on every decision, some who decide in an instant, and then Wayne Barnes, and his sliding scale of 'attempting to stay on your feet'.I'd like to slag the ref off. I don't like his style of instant decision making at the breakdown, but he was entirely consistent and fair.
I certainly haven't heard anything other than congratulations for Wales who were clearly the better team last night.
Quite right, and by miles in the 2nd half.
14 x centre pairings for England, throwing to the front of the line out - which shows Youngs confidence IMO - on a match winning attempt, and as Gareth Edwards correctly said on the telly, Brad Barrit - all tell a story of uncertainty. Watson was a tad lazy in defence also by allowing Wales to run onto him which brought width into play.
Lancaster won't admit defeat and bring Burrell and Slade into the team or can't. Giteau will have a field day out there. I think the game against Aus will go down the same as this one, with England being outplayed at the end. Lets hope JJ is fit to play, as Burgess/JJ might be thought only hope we have left in the centres for the remaining RWC.
@jamba I don't disagree with you on the tactics of the selection - though both played well as required to do. But you're spot on that England's issues stem from a lack of clarity off the pitch and invisible leadership on it. Lancaster is spoiled for choice across several positions, which seems to have driven some extraordinary overthinking. Rugby isn't always about matching your opponent man for man, but much more about having a clear style and executing it well. Woodward was excellent at this. Sometimes it's better not to think about the opposition too much.
@tinybits You're right on Barrett - if it wasn't for the Engkand 3/4s being miles offside in every (England) defensive breakdown I think he'd have been found out even sooner. in fact that's one area the ref didn't do anything about almost all night.
Burgess had one loose carry, made a poorly executed but ultimately not dangerous kick and snubbed out Jamie Roberts all the time he was on the pitch.
Burgess did not cause the loss but he was completely ineffectual. Roberts schooled him and Williams Who skinned him on the outside when he got dragged out of position. Farrel however was very good.
and as Gareth Edwards correctly said on the telly, Brad Barrit - all tell a story of uncertainty.
Straight to bed with no pudding for you.
Obviously here we need to ping Gethin![img] 
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Burrell can only be brought in as an injury replacement and the only declared injury in the backs is JJ so it's unlikely we'll see that pairing?
A poor performance from England key errors for me were:
Giving away penalties at the breakdown, these were completely unforced (as compared to Wales who only gave away penalties at the scrum or under considerable pressure).
Poor game management and decision making - if we were going to roll the die and go for a try then the penalty under the posts when we were 4 points up and Wales had just made lots of injury replacements was probably the one to go for; although I may be employing 20/20 hindsight there. Equally given our lineout had been shocking all game (and not great this year) and we'd been on top in the scrum all game then why not go for a scrum for the crucial last penalty?
Fair play to Wales - a good win for them which showed lots of Hwyl, grit and determination; hope the butchers bill isn't too high.
England were losing a lot of ball at every restart as farrel was kicking to far ahead of everyone.
After the first half I thought we had it wrapped up but we just seem to implode in the last twenty.
We will struggle to get out of the group now.
Lancaster needs to go.
@aa was that the first scrum ? Can't see how the ref can ping a prop on the far side particularly on the first scrum, as a min it should be a reset so he can have a look. I can't see Jenkins commiting such a clear offence that it can be called from the wrong side
We've discussed the league convert thing to death but aside from Robinson the converts hVe been poor anot least ad they are rushed into International rugby. I don't agree Roberts schooled Burgess, in fact Roberts was pretty anonymous. Farrell played his game well but his game was not what was required.
The group is far from over but were reliant on Australia doing us a favour and Figi duffing up the Welsh a bit first
Straight to bed with no pudding for you.
I don't know AA why you can't continue a decent conversation without pointless comments like this that gets people's back up.
Just enjoy the rugby can't you, and leave that on the sidelines.
Watching Australia now. England have no chance.
That scrum pic could have been any from the first half.
I liked that Lydiate was keeping an eye on the Welsh bind as the scrum was setting and physically moving his props arm forwards and more on to the body at one point
Not sure about the human interest story before the game. " I ate my dead team mates and now my son is playing for Uruguay."
I don't know AA why you can't continue a decent conversation without pointless comments like this that
Here is a clue
Spot the difference. Typical braying Rupert who thinks rugby started in 2003 and all the welsh look the same.
Ok, so I got a name wrong, and rather than politely correct me you add insults to the post. You really do have some issues my friend, no wonder you get some many cautions and bans.
Pack it in you two please, this has been rankle free for a while lets keep it that way.
Thank you
Screw you pigface, ya dick!
😆 😆 😆
I've nothing to "pack in" pig face. I came on here this morning to discuss yesterday's rugby, yet not for the first time find myself singled out for attention by AA, the result of which I now can't post on here again today without possibility of personal prejudice.
A shame.
*shrugs*
This thread has been well behaved can we keep it that way please?
All this discussion of performances and quality etc, lets face it the chances are Eng wont make it out of the group and then Lancasters achievement will be no better than Johnsons in the previous effort. It's funny how perception and press opinion colour the position of a team/coach in the nations eyes.
In 2011 the warm ups we beat ireland and wales and then wales beat us, not unlike our performance in the warm up matches this year.
At least under Johnson we won the 6N in the RWC year.
I don't give Lancaster any credo now, we need a new boss, and coaching team to bring on some of the better talent.
(unless of course by some miracle we beat OZ, make to the finals and then stomp NZ but I've been fantasising enough today as it is.)
It's not a unique jibe to a_a and as always best ignore silly comments whoever they come from. Cheer up, England will likely have a solid amount of bonus points and good points difference so they only need one of the next games (eng and Wales) to go their way and it's game on for the knockouts
Predictions for the Scotland game? Bonus point win with an interception try seems a safeish bet 🙂
No one has said it yet (I think) but credit to both goal kickers yesterday.
I'm the biggest detractor of Farrel but he was majestic yesterday.
Aye scotland will piss this.
No one has said it yet (I think) but credit to both goal kickers yesterday.
Indeed. They were both brilliant. Which makes the decision to go for the corner even more strange.
Discipline was very poor - think back to the silly penalty when the ball had been sent right back to the Welsh 22.
Forget O Farell, what abut the old man? How many times was the ENG defence line doglegged including the all important try???
Wasn't sure if they were trying the hinge / rush defence i.e. rush up on the 2nd / 3rd receiver that Wasps used to employ effectively? The line speed was good in the first half where it was effective but they lost coherence in the 2nd half particularly the last 20. If you're going to use that rush defence you can't miss tackles otherwise big holes appear.
A few thoughts on England in the cold night of day. I've been flying back fromJapan all night, avoiding the Saturday sports sections, trying not to be too grumpy to my crew, even if they were all talking in welsh accents to me all night!!!
1. I was, and still am, happy with the starting team. It did the job it was picked to do with a 10 pt lead.
2. The bench. Owen Farrell is not a match changing centre, nor will wigglesworth be at 9. We had no X factor on the bench. What has happened with Danny Care? Why not play Slade as a plan B at 10/12/15.
3. If you want to bring on Ford to attack in the last 20, having Farrell/Barritt outside him is not the way to do it.
4. Decision making. I don't blame Robshaw for going for the try near the end, but whoever called a throw to 2, then drove blindside wants shooting. If you go to the front, you need to peel inside. Japan & Fiji showed it perfectly.
5. Maybe England's lack of experience showed here. You should close out a game from 10 Pte up with 20 to go. This game will be a study in exactly how NOT to do it.
6. The pool of death is looking bad for both eng and Wales at the moment. Wales may well qualify, but their injury list has probably ruled them out as contenders.
I've not actually seen the match yet, that pain is for tonight - helped by my latest Yamazaki whisky purchase 😀
My Team for Aus
Mako
Youngs
Brooke's
Lawes
Launch bury
Wood
Robshaw
Billy V
Youngs
Farrell
Burgess
Slade
Watson
May
Brown
The Scotland of old is back with a ton of handling errors. Must be very frustrating!