[Closed] 2015-16 rugby, world cup year

Massive respect for Barnes, great referring today.

Was his consulting the TMO on the fly a new innovation? When can they consult TMOs now?

A lot of cynical play from the [s]all blacks,[/s] New Zealand

Plus ca change....

Was his consulting the TMO on the fly a new innovation?

Nope. Y Nige has been doing it for a while now. Including, during the Georgia/Tonga game saying to the TMO (And I paraphrase)., "Yes, yes, I saw it. Nothing in it, we'll play on. Thanks...." in a slightly annoyed tone. 🙂

Eh?

No, I don't agree about Barnes. He penalized Argentina several times for breakdown offences but allowed NZ to get away with exactly the same ones. Not consistent.

I looked at those laws as well, CFH. Terribly written, terribly unclear. It defines what the cards are but then doesn't expalin when to apply them. On page 6 it says that a red card is used for contravention of Law 10, Foul Play. But under Law 10 every single offence is listed as a penalty. If you use the laws as written nobody ever gets sent off.

Only one answer to all these injuries
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I think he should just be a good boy and stay nice and safe in Brizzle. Rugby world cup? Pah. We've got Jersey away next week. 😀

We've had two tries called back now just prior to the conversion after the ref has seen the big screen. I sincerely hope the video guy at Twickenham does not show any replays of England tries 🙂

Also I propose the producers keep a camera on McCaw and show a replay on the big screen every time he's on the opposite side of the breakdown to the ref 🙂

Thought carter trying to dislodge the ball with his foot needs looking at, reckless and caused injury.

No different to one of North's concussions really

Nope. Y Nige has been doing it for a while now. Including, during the Georgia/Tonga game saying to the TMO (And I paraphrase)., "Yes, yes, I saw it. Nothing in it, we'll play on. Thanks...." in a slightly annoyed tone.

That will be his touch judges,not the TMO.
According to this page, Wayne Barnes is either a good ref or one who just misses NZ infringements.The usual suspects are again pedalling their "They only win because they cheat."rhetoric. Oh,or target Courtney Lawes...A visit from Zokes and we can call house. Ali Williams is tying evidence labels to some of you as I type.
The uncomfy fact for all the Engerland fans is the NZ put in exactly the type of performance that you lot did in 03. They imposed their game plan on one of the best sides in the world and didn't fold even when down to 13 men...And you lot didn't on Friday. Not seen AUS yet,but based on that weekend, still NZ by a mile.

Lol!

England's defence will stop that AB March up the field much harder and quicker than Argentina did. If McCaw is neutralised by the ref we stand a much better chance. Sonny Bill looked impressive though - ultra world class.

Walls should b worried - if Englamd don't put them to the sword it's a massive fail on our part, we should, edge them all over the park, and a little intensity into the mix should see the, crumble, as long as we hold onto the ball and take it up,the middle.

We've had two tries called back now just prior to the conversion after the ref has seen the big screen.

Indeed, but there was a difference between them too.

In the Eng/Fiji game the ref awarded the try and then saw it on the big screen and went to the TMO to reverse it.

Whereas in the Fra/It game the ref actually went to the TMO to make sure the ball had got to the try-scorer legally and then gave the try and THEN noticed him dropping the ball on the big screen and called it back. Why couldn't the TMO have just spotted it in the first place?

England's defence will stop that AB March up the field much harder and quicker than Argentina did

edge them all over the park, and a little intensity into the mix should see the, crumble, as long as we hold onto the ball and take it up,the middle.

I'm confused. Are you going all over the park or going up the middle? Have you been watching Lancaster Lecture 001.3, England Tactics 2015? The one they applied to the Fiji game. 😉

The usual suspects are again pedalling their "They only win because they cheat."rhetoric.

+1

It gets a bit boring. They win most games because they're awesome at rugby and as duckie says, every player poses a threat with his mobility.

I will concede that the green machine only win when they cheat. 😀 (A level 11b referee told me.)

I'm confused. Are you going all over the park or going up the middle? Have you been watching Lancaster Lecture 001.3, England Tactics 2015? The one they applied

My point is, that they play England 101. If the forwards take it up e park and we play the mauls, we'll suffocate the Welsh. Should it go outside, or priest land kicks like that again we finally have a threat on the backs to score that way.

Re NZ - yes our defence is more robust and we've send that possession is 9/10ths of the game Arg did that right. I also agree that NZ have a lot of threats, but it's Smith/sonny Bill / savea that will undo us IMO.

priest land kicks like that again we finally have a threat on the backs to score that way.

He won't be playing. (Please to all the gods and little demons, don't let Priestland play..)

Changed the rules to stop you cheating DD... 😆

Wales scrummaging options not looking too clever, perhaps uncontested scrums are part of the Gatland master plan ?

My point is, that they play England 101. If the forwards take it up e park and we play the mauls, we'll suffocate the Welsh. Should it go outside, or priest land kicks like that again we finally have a threat on the backs to score that way.

You are really just making yourself look silly.

we'll see next weekend wont we.

For as long as I can remember, the England game has been based on forward strength, 70% possession and squeezing penalties.

At the moment, we are struggling in the scrum/breakdown and having less than 50% possession, but still winning games - that has to be a good sign. We still have a great pack, and "if" they get themselves sorted, we could seriously click.

I'd not be reading too much into the Wales performance yesterday, it was the u15 girls squad playing and you could see they were playing to score tries at the expense of playing 'properly'. This may be over optimistic hopefulness more than belief. The winner from that group is the Aussies, none of the other teams looked convincing and they will take some reassurance from that.

After that performance I sincerely hope Priestland doesn't get on the pitch again. I'm fairly sure I could hear his mum calling for him to be taken off when he missed touch the 2nd time and she was sat on the opposite side of the pitch to me.

we'll see next weekend wont we.

No we wont thats the point. Priestland wont be at 10 Biggar will. Wales will most likely lose but your analysis is that of a parody rugby fan again.

u could see they were playing to score tries at the expense of playing 'properly'

Priestland looked under orders to gamble to get pens right in the corner and not worry about missing. The rest of Wales missed touches were based on them not actually kicking for touch as its been a Gatwards tic tac for years.

Priestland looked under orders to gamble to get pens right in the corner and not worry about missing. The rest of Wales missed touches were based on them not actually kicking for touch as its been a Gatwards tic tac for years.

It was a definite tactic to get as many mauls in as close to the line as possible as it seems to be the one big area of success for almost all teams but not one Wales really count as a strength. I'm not sure I agree there wasn't any pressure on the kicks to touch as Priestland looked really down in the dumps. The tic tac is normal... but we don't have any kicking wings and could probably do with Hooks huge range if Williams is struggling

Kryton57 - Member
Lol!

England's defence will stop that AB March up the field much harder and quicker than Argentina did. If McCaw is neutralised by the ref we stand a much better chance. Sonny Bill looked impressive though - ultra world class.

Will they really?

They're not in England's pool .
They're not in England's side of the knockout draw.
There's a lot of rugby to be played,
or do England just have a basket full of chickens and no eggs?

At this stage, it might be more relevant for the enthusiastic England fan to be talking about how they'll cope with Wales, OZ , or just about anyone else, tbh.

What was Ali Williams saying about arrogance?

your analysis is that of a parody rugby fan again.

No it isn't, its fact - see dantsw13 post under mine I'm not the only one that thinks so. As I said, IMO the best way for England to play is to their strengths, up through the forwards, threatening with the backs on the return phases, and the rush defence.

Forget the fancy pants tactics we employed against Fiji, the team didn't adapt / isn't practised enough to make it work, and better teams will rip them a new one.

I agree with mrhoppy, you shouldn't look too deeply at that game. A second string Wales side who looked pretty disinterested vs a team who could conceivably be considered the worst in the tournament. Saturday will be a seriously tough game.

On another note, I'm not normally one to express pleasure at an injury but huget is a total **** of the highest order and whilst he's a fantastic player, I'm not upset that his RWC is over. If ever there was evidence of the existence of karma - this is it.

England's defence will stop that AB March up the field much harder and quicker than Argentina did. If McCaw is neutralised by the ref we stand a much better chance. Sonny Bill looked impressive though - ultra world class.

Walls should b worried - if Englamd don't put them to the sword it's a massive fail on our part, we should, edge them all over the park, and a little intensity into the mix should see the, crumble, as long as we hold onto the ball and take it up,the middle.

This would work for the historic England teams but the one weakness of the current squad is.... the pack! The forwards will need to have a hugley different game compared to the one against Fiji to do well in the tournament.

It should be seen as a failure if England don't beat a depleted Welsh side at home. The casual fan probably didn't even recognize half the Welsh team yesterday it was that much of an improvised, C or D team so you can't read anything in to that... but it will be the backs not the forwards who'll clinch it for England

No it isn't, its fact - see dantsw13 post under mine I'm not the only one that thinks so.

I read that as "we are traditionally strong in the forwards, have the players... but need sort ourselves out for it to actually happen like that"

but it will be the backs not the forwards who'll clinch it for England

Sure, they'll score. I just think England play better and look more powerful when the forwards are carry it up, rather than their absence based strategic against Fiji where we looked frail.

The forwards will need to have a hugley different game compared to the one against Fiji to do well in the tournament.

...is my point, back to what they know, and do week in week out. The fact we don't have a genuine seven means they need to stay on their feet longer and are threatened there by Wales and Aus, but thats what we have, so we have to live with it.

I don't think England's pack is a weakness, they just haven't played well for a few games. On paper, they are still a very strong pack.

Kryton57 - Member

As I said, IMO the best way for England to play is to their strengths, up through the forwards, threatening with the backs on the return phases, and the rush defence.

None of those are strengths in the current England team.You will beat what's left of Wales,I have little doubt of that,but trying to make out that England has the attributes you mention above is evidence of a Meth habit. You do also realise that those "fancy tactics" are the result of the entire training camp,and thats how you are going to play,don't you? Lancaster has schooled the plan B out of that side.

None of those are strengths in the current England team.

One of us is watching with some kinted of tinted glasses. I never said they were the best at it though, thats just how they play traditional vis a vis natural strengths.

You do also realise that those "fancy tactics" are the result of the entire training camp,and thats how you are going to play,don't you? Lancaster has schooled the plan B out of that side.

IMO if we play like that for the rest of the tournament we are screwed.

wrecker - Member
...
On that, why isn't Cave in the ireland squad for the game? He looked excellent last I saw of him.

Going back a bit, but I'm really happy Joe gave Fitz a run out of position at 12.
IMO, it wasn't about fielding the best no 12 for the job against Canada but a little bit more experimentation on what players can cover as bench options.
No doubt that if it's a critical match and Henshaw's out then Cave is next best starter centre. But neither are really "big game" first choice, and now Joe can have a bit of confidence that if he put's Fitz on the bench he can cover 11-15 if needed.
It's been an ongoing experiment for the last two years with nearly every game including at least one player slightly out of position testing what they can offer as cover in case of injury. Mostly players who might be considered as 16-23 for the "big" games. Joe's a "bench for cover first and foremost" rather than "bench for impact" selector.

On a similar note, England's bench seems a little strange on the "cover front" to me.
OFarrell is 10 or 12, SBurgess is 12too.
From a "joe" perspective, that wouldn't happen.
Nowell would cover 11, 13, 14, 15 if OF covered 10,12.
Or if Burgess is going to be there as 12 cover, someone like Slade would be a better compliment as he'd cover 10, 13, 15.
And Watson would have had at least a match as an international 15 by now to give him confidence for covering Brown's next knock

Likewise in the Forwards a bit. Selecting two out-and-out 8s in the 23 would require a bit more evidence that 6 and 7 are covered by someone in the 23.
For me, it's interesting how differnt coaches have different outlooks on making up a matchday 23.

IMO if we play like that for the rest of the tournament we are screwed.

You do realise Eddie Jones was free about the same time as you appointed a [s]moral guardian[/s] coach....(Says the man from the country still paying Scott Johnston)

CaptainFlashheart said » Just spotted the cup and 2003 logo on the England shirt. Tacky

Or indeed the jerseys of all previous winners in the 2007 and 2011 competitions.

Australia

15. Israel Folau
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper
13. Tevita Kuridrani
12. Matt Giteau
11. Rob Horne
10. Bernard Foley
9. Will Genia
1. Scott Sio
2. Stephen Moore
3. Sekope Kepu
4. Kane Douglas
5. Rob Simmons
6. Scott Fardy
7. Michael Hooper
8. David Pocock
Replacements:
16. Tatafu Polota-Nau
17. James Slipper
18. Greg Holmes
19. Will Skelton
20. Dean Mumm
21. Nick Phipps
22. Matt Toomua
23. Kurtley Beale

You do realise Eddie Jones was free about the same time as you appointed a moral guardian coach.

Yes but we don't need reminding of that thanks. 😈

Nick Mallet was also available and he'd convinced Wayne Smith to come aboard as attack coach too - but we don't need reminding of that either.......

...Pats NMBuzz on the back in a sympathetic way...

Seriously though,Mallet and Smith?

Jap commentary on their winning try - only marginally more hysterical than it was in our living room.

Crank up the volume!

Seriously though,Mallet and Smith?

Mallet I could take or leave but if he'd come with Smith I'd have taken him. Smith could probably have taught some of the England backs to play rugby properly.

Things like straightening, drawing a man and giving a pass for example.

you're forgetting that we paid something like £40k in recruitment costs to appoint the person already in charge. With that kind of expenditure, we must have the right man for the job!

I almost hope England get a good kicking in the next 2 games so we don't have to go through another 4 years of Lancaster dross.

As to England's style, well, it'll have to be whatever they've trained for. I simply can't work out how we have managed to convert a pack that looked at least as good as any other, and better than most to something so bloody awful.
A scrum that doesn't work (and why won't Tom Youngs hook?), and no ability to compete for the ball at the breakdown, coupled with relatively slow forwards as well. Makes no sense at all.
Still, however bad they'll give wales a good kicking.

For me, it's interesting how differnt coaches have different outlooks on making up a matchday 23.

Completely agree. When you break down the England bench in particular it is a case of pre-planned 50 minute impact subs vs injury cover. The one positive for England is that these subs seem to be making a difference and not disturbing the team overall as much as they did a short while ago. One could argue that they should be able to have their best players last 80 minutes but on the other hand it works and they don't seem to be picking up injuries.

None of those are strengths in the current England team.You will beat what's left of Wales,I have little doubt of that

Got to agree with Duckman (edit and Tinybits) on this. In the current squad who are the players who'll march up the middle of any team and defend to such a level they could *hypothetically* stop a team like NZ in full flow?

The forwards playing as they did against Fiji wasn't a tactic- if it was it was a stupid one and England were lucky to get away with it!

Genuine questions, who are the enforcers in defense and who are the muscular guaranteed gain line breakers in a tight attack for England taking current individuals' form in to account?

12. Matt Giteau

From an Aus perspective this must make the fans very excited 😀 I do love watching Giteau at 12 so long as it isn't against Wales

I think England will go through,not sure about as winners as your pack is not firing well enough to dominate Aus where they are still perceived as being weak...Aus's backs are terrifying mind you,so any ball they get needs to be crap. However,scraping through and then beating us will be enough to keep Lancaster in a job for another 4 years....

One of us is watching with some [b]kinted of tinted[/b] glasses. I never said they were the best at it though, thats just how they play traditional vis a vis natural strengths.

You're not the first person to fluff that line...

I've just watched a replay of SA v JPN. Wow. I'm not sure it was an appalling SA performance -Japan fully deserved to win, by playing great attacking rugby.

Watched bits of it back over the weekend too. All SA did was underestimate Japan wildly but once they found themselves in a dogfight, they didn't adapt. And it was to Japan's credit that SA didn't have an answer. It's blown the group wide open now. Not sure how confident the Scots will be for the game at Kingsholm but I wish I had a ticket for it. It'll be a cracking game.

Anyone notice how quickly the ball came out the back of the Japan scrums? 😀 Fair dues, they accepted they were probably going to be pushed back so went for getting it out quickly.

I still fancy us to beat Japan.We aren't the biggest ourselves and have a really good set of backs.We tend to struggle against teams that boss us up front (i.e almost everybody in int rugby) Japan will be sore as even though the Boks were poor,they were still big and hard..and poor. Japan also suddenly find themselves under a whole new type of pressure as well.

I'm not sure it was an appalling SA performance

Japan played out their skins, they had a game plan, and they hammered it out for the full 90 minutes.

*cough* 80 *cough* 😉

Felt like 90. Felt like 190.

A pretty good assessment of the SA game plan there.Hopefully they can be that bad again...

Anyone notice how quickly the ball came out the back of the Japan scrums? Fair dues, they accepted they were probably going to be pushed back so went for getting it out quickly.

This - in spades!

Why is it that all teams seem to now think that they have to win a penalty at each scrum, rather then just re start, tie in the fatties and get the damn ball out. If England is having trouble at scrum time, hook the damn ball (don't try to push over it Tom Youngs) and get it out. Ball back in play, no disadvantage. Simples.

Especially when the penalties are by and large given in turns by the refs.

tinybits - Member

I almost hope England get a good kicking in the next 2 games so we don't have to go through another 4 years of Lancaster dross.

Indeed. Although in the (highly) unlikely event of us winning - all will be forgotten. 😉

Just an observation: The last two RWC finals have been contested by teams that came from the same group. I wonder what the chances are of that happening again?

NZ/Arg - possible
Fra/Ire - possible
Aus/Eng/Wal - possible
SA/Sco/Sam/Jap - unlikely but hey, after Saturday, who knows?

So, after the opening round, who is actually looking good??? Apart from Japan.

Just got round to watching the video of the Japanese commentary. Gotta love moments like that. 😀

As for who's looking good? Too early to tell. Green machine are just building our hopes up before taking to the field with no injuries, Sexton on fire, Healey and O'Brien in the form of their lives and O'Connell at his belligerent best facing an injury ravaged France. And losing.

[img] [/img]

Earls clearly enjoyed the welcome for the team in Burton on Trent, bloody Munster folk, no manners. 😀

Joseph a doubt for Englandshire.

Joseph a doubt for Englandshire.

I saw that along with the BBC website saying:

Coach Stuart Lancaster may opt to move Barritt to 13 and bring in either Burgess or Farrell at inside centre.

Brad Barritt seems impervious to being dropped despite being totally s**t. First, being injured a lot somehow preserved his "certain starter" status and now being completely crap at 12 somehow elevates him to getting moved across to 13.

Can anyone, with a straight face, explain to me why Barritt should have ever played for England in the first place?

PS no uses of the following phrases are allowed: "When we beat the All Blacks", "Defensive Centre" and "he looked good alongside Manu Tuilagi".

Slade would be the best option surely? Wales would cope with Burgess and Barritt so much easier imo.

"he looked good alongside Manu Tuilagi".

So, after the opening round, who is actually looking good???

Can't deny that barritt isn't the most creative player but he's a long way from being shit. Not necessarily my selection (i'd like to see Slade in there), but I'd still pick him every single time ahead of Eastmond.

If Joseph is out, I think we may see the Burgess/Slade partnership rekindled.

he's a long way from being shit.

Against Fiji he was not a long way from being shit. In fact he was sharing the same seat....

barritt isn't the most creative player but he's a long way from being shit.

I fully agree, shit would be offended to be compared to him.

Oh I dunno...really can't wait for this game. 😀

Can anyone, with a straight face, explain to me why Barritt should have ever played for England in the first place?

He's South African and they know how to win stuff? Oh wait 😀

He played under Farrell at Saracens with Jr? case of coaches picking who they know?

He looked good alongside Manu Tuilagi? Oh damn it! 😆

Slade would be the best option surely? Wales would cope with Burgess and Barritt so much easier imo.

The thought of Slade (or even Cipriani!) in the centres is worrying for Wales as they are capable of making and exploiting a gap against Gatlandball pretty well. Burgess is right on for Wales normal pattern of play. Farrell must be England's wort option. If Ford wanted to play some rugby then Farell would end up stopping things dead for England one man along the line instead of at 10 like he has been doing for a while now.

Oh, and this is what a NZ second team looks like 😯

Colin Slade; Nehe Milner-Skudder, Malakai Fekitoa, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea; Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara; Ben Franks, Codie Taylor, Charlie Faumuina, Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock, Liam Messam, Sam Cane (capt), Victor Vito.

deadlydarcy - Member
Oh I dunno...really can't wait for this game.

POSTED 42 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Yeah, can't wait for that game either duckie. 😛

One bad game doesn't make a player shit. He's had plenty more good games. I'd sooner have burrell in the squad, but I'd choose Barritt over KE and SB. He's a better rugby player.

One bad game doesn't make a player shit. He's had plenty more good games.

Well he had the game against Australia where he stood out for getting blood on his shirt. I can't recall much else worth writing home about.

On a lighter note the DT are reporting:

In the single most radical upheaval of Stuart Lancaster’s time in charge, England have ripped up their midfield for the crucial World Cup pool game against Wales by dropping George Ford for Owen Farrell, starting Sam Burgess at inside centre for the first time in a high-profile test match and switching Brad Barritt to outside centre in place of the injured Jonathan Joseph.

Well forwards generally win matches but we all prefer talking about who plays in the backs. It looks like AF will finally get his dream midfield. Standing next to SL for the last 3 months and whispering "pick my lad" in his ear 15,237,874 times has finally paid off.

So the plan is to try and play like a traditional England side by the sound of those changes? Pressure on the pack to perform and I don't doubt thy will

From the Welsh side, injuries to 15's and in the centres and still no sign of Hook 😉

Allen was this morning released from the Wales squad and has been replaced by Newport Gwent Dragons centre Tyler Morgan.

Ford hasnt controlled games well recently. Running around like headless chickens v Fini was very daft.

I think Farrell has looked pretty good the last 2 times I've seen him. I'd still rather have Slade at 13 than Barrett

Ford hasnt controlled games well recently

True but some of that has been down to the pack failing to provide decent ball and putting Ford on to the back foot.

The pack had good ball v Fiji and Ford tried to spend all game running round them in the backs rather than kick to the corners and pressure them.