[Closed] 2013/14 Rugby Thread

Being handed off once doesn't indicate a poor performance. He played far better than the lauded twelvetrees.

Why has no-one mentioned Billy V? Good performance, I thought.

I said to my son when they showed 12trees warming up "Oh no, not him at centre again!"
Just don't get it. At least Tompkins showed some good defensive qualities. There has to be a better 12 in England! Bringing a 10 on at 12 ain't the answer (as Australia showed!)
Gonna be another hard slog against the Argies next week.

A little hard on 12t, he's not exactly experienced at this level, and is a good inside centre (not fly half), although admitdly not great this game. who would you have had in place?

A little hard on 12t. Yes, he has broken a tackle or two if you have seen him on a regular basis. Live.

12t has been off the boil in the 3 games I've seen him play this season. Trinder has been excellent by contrast.
I'd put Burrell in for the next game, he's been on fire this season. Prob put trinder in too.

England looked very rusty, Australia didn't do enough (anything ?) in second half. We won ugly but plenty to work on

I thought Billy V was good, Brown the stand out player. Farrell for me had his worst game for England and should have come off at half time. I thought Twelvetrees was hopeless generally and dreadful capitulation for the try.

AA I agree with your thoughts on England but of Wales cannot beat this Australian side in Cardiff then that's a very poor show, they won't get a better chance.

I watched Wade score two great tries this evening, quick isn't the word. Kingsholme was not a happy place.

Being handed off once doesn't indicate a poor performance. He played far better than the lauded twelvetrees.

my Gran could have played better than Twelvetrees.
Wales wont beat Aus. Frustrating but true. On yesterdays showing Wales should have nothing to fear in their world cup pool either but they'll still lose.

As for England centres Eastmond is talked up but no Bath back has been passed the ball by Ford this season. Apparently v Worcs Eastmond played 12 and didnt get one pass all game.

anagallis_arvensis - Member

Wish Wales could beat Aus when not playing well. We lost to them 240 000 times last season.

Proper LOL!!

jambalaya - Member

AA I agree with your thoughts on England but of Wales cannot beat this Australian side in Cardiff then that's a very poor show, they won't get a better chance.

England's first try yesterday came from the penalty kick thrown back in by an English player standing in touch. If the officials had been competent, England would have been on their own 5m line defending rather than making their way upfield on their way to score. (Via a blatant forward pass which was also missed by the officials.)

Their second try was the disputed 'was there blocking, wasn't there?'

Two tries which on any other day may not have been given. Simply put, the history books will show that England won, but they were very, very lucky to have the most incompetent refereeing team so far this autumn.

With any luck Wales will have the same 'luck'!

Even so, England were the better team on the day. Perhaps the score should have been closer, but they should not feel remotely guilty in taking the win.

I agree with wrecker that Farrell isn't the long terms solution at 10. Given that his kicking game is his strength then for me his goal kicking is below than standard required of an international 10, and has been all of this calendar year.

36 was awful yesterday, but he is still very inexperienced and lets not forget the amount of stick Brown got after the 6n's yet was mom yesterday (admittedly now he isn't playing out of position). I'd like to see Burrell in the side in place of Tomkins.

As has been said though, no shape at all in the backs and very little attacking threat. How Wade didn't make the squad I'll never know. Hopefully we've got a solution to the number 8 problem now though....Billy V was very impressive.

[b]Tom B[/b] - Member
I agree with wrecker that Farrell isn't the long terms solution at 10. Given that his kicking game is his strength then for me his goal kicking is below than standard required of an international 10, and has been all of this calendar year.

Ashton is yesterday's news and I think the disrespect he showed the coaching staff and Martin Johnson with the swallow dive nonsense show's his attitude is not right.

Ashton is yesterday's news and I think the disrespect he showed the coaching staff and Martin Johnson with the swallow dive nonsense show's his attitude is not right.

I have no problem with the Ashton diving (although he is nowhere near as good at as Williams was) its just the fact he's shit, well not shit but without anyone making half breaks and offloading to him he is well and truly neutered, the England midfield without Manu Tuilagi create nothing. His tackling is pure league style, he goes high to stop offloads, they do it all the time in league, go high and wait for others to come and knock them over as offloads win games in league. He needs to be intensively coached in how to tackle low. I don't think its lack of heart just lack of technique.
Wade appears to be the next cab of the rank and he's hardly a defensive colossus. Might as well pick Monye as all England wingers seem to do is chase kicks and tackle.

As I said yesterday Wade took his two tries really well, his defense isn't great but that is not what he is there for. Shane wasn't the greatest defender, mainly due to size. Taking the Bath swamp donkey down is not a great example the man is hopeless. I would have Wade in front of Ashton but Lancaster seems to be a size freak.

Or get Mathew Tait back in the side. Yes A-A u know exactly what video you're about to post, but it wouldn't happen now, and last year his running for leicester was absolutly incredible. Think the type of runs that he did against the Soith Africans in a certain World Cup final, easily beating the first 3 defenders. That's the type of winger we could do with.

Banahanahanahan for England
[IMG] [/IMG]

I'd rather have my gran, and she's been dead for 18years....

Yes A-A u know exactly what video you're about to post

it wasn't just two tackles and one kick:

[img] [/img]

tinybits, Tait lack the pace now for an international winger IMO

Has everyone forgotten that we destroyed them in the scrum, massively improved in the loose and had a pretty good defensive game?

Agree with the centre comments. I think Yarde played better at centre when he had to. I'd like to see Tuilagi inside Yarde, still perplexed who'd play 12 though.

As for the comments from the armchair refs, you forget there's three refs on the field. Small snippets of cheating happen all over the park and get unseen, not just by England. We could talk about trips, shirt pulls and the winding up of Ton Youngs that went on (did they forget what Hartley looked like) by the Aussie, not to mention numerous attempts to slow the ball in the loose plus that awful hit on Launchbury which had nothing much to do with securing a ball.

But if you're not going to put you're wingers into any space, then you might as well have players who go looking for work and can break the gain line with good footwork. I can't recall the last time I saw an English winger properly open the taps.

Thats true tiny. If you watch the game again look at the build up to the Farrel try. Bily V busts the gainline quick ball goes left, it just needed some straight running and drawing and passing to put in Yarde but it was butchered. Brown was involved and drifted left didnt commut anyone and then just shunted it on. It reminded me off the Strettle non try at the end of the last eng wales game at twickers. Basics done really really badly. The all blacks would have strolled it in making it look easy.

I'd love to see Tuilagi and Yarde in the centres too especially against Wales!!!

AA quite correct, though at least brown had some good moments enough to hold 15

Ashton needed to go from the squad 5 matches ago

Not convinced by Lawes and missed Parling. Still would have T Youngs over Hartley ....just cannot abide him.

Robshaw may not be an openside but another great match. Woods excellent. Billy was Billy

Farrell stuck in there yeaterday, not the 10 we need 11/ 12/13/14 all open, but need to give players a run to see how they settle in.

Good job I don't write about rugby for a living! The idea that we had agood scrummaging match is completely at odds to how I saw it live. Ditto Ian Robertson was pretty positive on the radio on the way home.

Perhaps I was watching a differern match.

"If" Hartley was guilty of blocking then he was merely reflecting his "true" nationality - the Aussies should be used to that!!!

I couldn't help thinking at the time it was a very "NZ" block 😀 .... as in preventing the defender from being where they needed to be but done just well enough to con the officials. Plenty of blocks far more marginal get punished in the middle of the field normally. NZ have this type of thing absolutely dialled and their split lineout towards the try line where the hooker cruises through untouched is a prime example of this. There is no way Hartley should have been in that area though so is far less subtle. Personally I'm amazed England got away with it but there you go.

As far as England go- not knowing your starting 15 (or probably more precisely, your backs) 2 years out from a WC is a bit worrying.

Wales know their starting 15 but can't ever get them on the pitch at the same time as each other 😀

I think England do know their backs, it's these with Brad barret and Tuilagi in.
I think they'd be a better beating of Aus with those two in the team. Add in a couple of additional wingers to allow you to get rid of Ashton, and that's as good as it gets
Which depresses me quite a lot...

THM
I agree I thought they got lucky in the early scrums Vunipola was all over the place. Improved later with Hartley and Wilson on.

Not sure if this will work. First scrum. The Clancy Clown pinged aus for boring in.
[img] https://mobile.twitter.com/GAGR/status/396914911764180992/photo/1 [/img]

https://mobile.twitter.com/GAGR/status/396914911764180992/photo/1

Shame the ref isn't 60 ft tall eh? 🙂

[i]A little hard on 12t. Yes, he has broken a tackle or two if you have seen him on a regular basis. Live.[/i]
True, just didn't rate him last time he palyed for England and he seemed to get a lot of praise... yeah and sorry for not watching every live match played every week 😆

B*** Rugby and England Under 20 wing/full back Anthony Watson will train with senior squad this week ahead of the second QBE International against Argentina this Saturday.

Head Coach Stuart Lancaster has called-up Watson as a continued policy of giving promising young players "a taste of the environment."

Told ya!

It was a pretty grim afternoon TBH. Why does a country with a rugby population such as England have to play 12t at centre?

Injuries?

Anyway AA, you must laughing. The best team in N Hemisphere against a poor side that even England can beat on an average day. You boys must be able to thump the Aussies this weekend!!!!! What's the winning margin going to be?

The welsh are playing SA first up aren't they?

wrecker - Member

The welsh are playing SA first up aren't they?

Yep, which means that the first choice Welsh 15 will be down to 2 fit players by this time next week.

By the time Wales play Australia in a few weeks time, the Ozzies will have remembered that Quade Cooper is appalling, Genia will have got his form back and the midfield will have taken some 'attack' and 'creativity' supplements. (And will beat Wales with a last minute kick like they do every single bloody time!)

Next weeks fixtures

Italy v Australia 14:00
England v Argentina 14:30
Scotland v Japan 14:30
Wales v South Africa 17:30
Ireland v Samoa 17:45
France v New Zealand 20:00

All the autumn fixtures

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/international-match/fixtures

Disappointing that poor ref/TMO/linesman decisions are deciding matches suspect there will be a few more by the time the autumn internationals are over.

Could be worse though I was at the Edinburgh v Zebre match on Friday (bad enough itself) but they didn’t have a TMO so ref/linesman were pretty much guessing if scores were legit or not. Surely you have to have a TMO at all matches or no matches, especially when we have bonus points which can make a difference between bottom or second bottom come the end of the season.

Idjejon and A-A; have you thought about becoming Scottish? You would fit in well with us, watching games through your fingers,seeing your team compete way above their skill set until a schoolboy error undoes them....All sound like fun? OK, it would take you a wee while to get used to the fact that we have beaten OZ since the game went pro, but it really is a small adjustment and normal service is soon resumed by a S-Sea team.

😆 You think it's easy to support England?!

Anyway AA, you must laughing. The best team in N Hemisphere against a poor side that even England can beat on an average day. You boys must be able to thump the Aussies this weekend!!!!! What's the winning margin going to be?

Wales will lose to Aus. Did you see last season. Also remains to be seen who is still fit and who gets released to play.

DezB, i can only imagine how hard it is to support a team that has either Hartley or Ashton in it nevermind both 🙂

Wales will only win 2 of the A I's and that will be tough 😕 lucky for me I keep telling myself they dont matter and its a money making exercise for the WRU

England are their own worst enemies IMHO. The pressure and expectation to win (by fans, media and management) causes conservative selection and tictacs, and stands in the way of player and team development.
I heard a commentator say that if England didn't win "questions would be asked". Why?
Get the young fringe players in there. You'd have thought they'd look at Wales and realise that's the way forward rather than stick with "steady" players for their experience. I long for the day they chuck it about a bit.

@pigface if you cannot beat the Southern Hemisphere in the friendly AI's you are never going to beat them in a tournament which matters, i.e. the RWC. Hopefully the Lions success will install a winning mentality for Wales.

@Ijs you have a point

The problem Lancaster has is that EVERY pigging headline starts with "Two years out from the World Cup..." England will not win the WC,why put the expectation on the squad of players and coaches? Why not build their international team to win games and take some of the pressure off.

england could win the World Cup if the ref helps them like Saturday 😉

jambayla I cant see Wales turning over New Zealand ever, The Boks are very strong at the moment, I think we can beat them if our first choice are all on the pitch together the astral alignement is correct and the seer of Tonypandy deems it so.

That is not going to be this Saturday.

Sat will be a chance for Phillips to test himself against the second best 9 in the world at least... 😀

Pigface - Member

england could win the World Cup if the ref helps them like Saturday

Jeez, Tondu could win the RWC with that sort of help! 😉 (@ Saes, that's a joke ok? )

ambayla I cant see Wales turning over New Zealand ever, The Boks are very strong at the moment, I think we can beat them if our first choice are all on the pitch together the astral alignement is correct and the seer of Tonypandy deems it so.

That's the ridiculous thing though, isn't it - Wales could win on Saturday. They have a team strong enough to do it. But having beaten SA, a team that regularly beats NZ, Wales would be totally unable to kick on and compete against NZ. All in the head!

All in the head!

NZ where terribly nervous in the last RWC final, they nearly lost to France who where the fourth or fifth best team in the tournament. I wonder whether you Welsh lads are just trying to talk down expectations, we all expected England to get crushed last year but we had a couple of breaks and it was NZ who were on the back foot, Wales are more than capable of doing the same.

I think winning the RWC has mentally released NZ and they can just go out and play now. I can't see a NH team beating them this autumn and i think they will win each game quite comfortably none of the home nations have the basic skills and are far too over drilled to compete with NZ.

I actually fear for England most as, ill or not as NZ were last year, England beat them well and i suspect NZ are still smarting and will be looking for revenge+ this year.

ijs445ra - Member

I actually fear for England most as, ill or not as NZ were last year, England beat them well and i suspect NZ are still smarting and will be looking for revenge+ this year.

That's true.

Jings;the English supporters are all turning into Celts!
Look at it this way,Sat will be a chance for 12T,Ashton and Tomkins to ram the negative press right down everybodys throats when they face Nonu,Smith and Dagg.Likewise Robshaw and V-P will be able to show that the hype surrounding McCaw and Reid is just paper talk.
Cheer up guys;Dilly Dally will no doubt have a piece (including diagrams) on how England can beat the AB's in at least one of the papers. To do this, his diagrams will involve a drone strike during a certain dance.

pigface if you cannot beat the Southern Hemisphere in the friendly AI's you are never going to beat them in a tournament which matters, i.e. the RWC. Hopefully the Lions success will install a winning mentality for Wales.

Wales wont beat SA they could beat Aus but most likely wont and they wont win the world cup as the back up players to the likes of Adam, Davies, Faletau, 1/2p especially are not good enough.

A_a; do you think that the regionalisation of the clubs has messed things up further in this regard?
Only 4 pro teams, limiting the amount of talent which can be developed?

Not sure the regions are the issue tbh theres just less pro's in Wales as the playing population is smaller. I actually think the regions do a good job of developing talent better than the english game. Regions problem is lack of supporters and funding.

Top five rugby tough nuts....

[i]Top five rugby tough nuts...[/i]
Absolutely brilliant. Why can't our rugby coverage be that FUNNY?! I'm laughing so loud I think I've upset the neighbours 😆
Lima's hit on Hougaard was so funny. Looked like he was saying "Someone call this guy an ambulance" after!

I love Collins chucking the ball at Mcaw. "who ****ing did that, oh sorry as you were".

Chabal?!? 😆

Funny clip though. Thing is, football gets that kind of funny stuff as well as serious stuff here. Why can't rugby do the same? It's so bloody serious all the time (apart from Internet forums of course).

Shelford might be tough but he cold hit Richards, bit cowardly IMO.

Gents;Being new to twitter,any funny rugby feeds I should be following?

Brian Moore 😀

Scotland team to play Japan on Saturday

Scotland: Sean Maitland, Tommy Seymour,, Nick De Luca, Matt Scott, Sean Lamont, Ruaridh Jackson, Greig Laidlaw, Ryan Grant, Ross Ford, Euan Murray, Tim Swinson, Alastair Kellock, Alasdair Strokosch, Kelly Brown (capt), David Denton.

Replacements: Pat MacArthur, Alasdair Dickinson, Geoff Cross, Richie Gray, John Barclay, Henry Pyrgos, Duncan Weir, Duncan Taylor.

A few injuries so probably a couple of forced changes but i would have liked to see Dunbar/Taylor/Bennet start at 13 with Scott at 12.

And Gatland just can't help himself

"Wales v South Africa: Warren Gatland rejects Rolland meeting"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24814317

pigface if you cannot beat the Southern Hemisphere in the friendly AI's you are never going to beat them in a tournament which matters, i.e. the RWC. Hopefully the Lions success will install a winning mentality for Wales.

This whole concept is very interesting. Consider England Vs Wales - Our record is nigh on 50/50 over the past 100 years. But England vs any southern hemisphere team compared with Wales vs any other southern hemisphere team and England come out on top. If only Wales could channel their hatred elsewhere they would be world beaters..

If only Wales could channel their hatred elsewhere they would be world beaters..

😆 That may wind a few brethren up

wrecker - Member
England are their own worst enemies IMHO. The pressure and expectation to win (by fans, media and management)

Really? QF, RU, 4th, QF, Champs, RU, QF - record that suggest and merits high expectations, surely. But....

causes conservative selection and tictacs, and stands in the way of player and team development.

....partly true although I am not sure about your causation!!! We were v conservative on Saturday for sure. I long for the days when we will see an England 3/4 line attacking the ball at pace, using the correct angles and executing some exciting moves. But am resigned to more flat balls, and attempts to muscle across the gain line....yawn.

The original Total Rugby thesis had much to admire in it, but the way Eng and others interpret this - usually having the from rows playing in the centre positions in the 2 phase onwards - is a backward not a forward (excuse the pun) step IMO.

On Gatland I can't decide is he:

1. Very astute and a master of gamesmanship or
2. Thick, rude and just a bit of a ****?

Either way, he gets results!!!

Edit: I get the swear filter thing now!! Sounds like cat!!! Can't be bothered to edit the damn autocorrect stuff though!!!

well I find it amusing that people consider that Wales need a

winning mentality

Have england ever played total rugby? I think you dont see england players hitting the line at speed and running angles is because 1 it is coached out of them, 2 they are not good enough to play that kind of game, physically yes but not in speed of thought.

england have always played the same way grind them to pulp at the front and then let the show ponies exploit the gaps, that and a kicker won the world cup. It can put pay to the majority of teams but with South Africa and New Zealand playing the way they do then everyone is playing catch up.

Sadly only on very rare occassions pig face (and this is from a Tigers fan!!!!!!)

SA and NZ do seem to be in a different league (different diets?) at the moment

Pigface - no.
I quite like your assessment

grind them to pulp at the front and then let the show ponies exploit the gaps, that and a kicker won the world cup

Its a succinct way of describing what really annoys me about english rugby, we have too many show ponies who think they are going to crash the line and score from halfway, instead of drawing the man and making an excellent offload.

To my basic way of understanding the game - if you examine your average All Black - he appears dedicated to making space for his team mate to score - one excellent way of doing that is to draw as many men into tackling you and then release the ball to the next player - sooner or later you get a massive hole in the defence and you score. Our backs seem to think that they should physically bore the hole in the defence..

Leigh Halfpenny (Blues), George North (Northampton Saints), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Eli Walker (Ospreys), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Unattached): Gethin Jenkins (Blues), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro), Sam Warburton (Blues, capt), Toby Faletau.
Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Paul James (Bath), Scott Andrews (Blues), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) Lloyd Williams (Blues), James Hook (Perpignan), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

Biggar must beright pissed off.

Unattached - 😉

I hope spikey has a good game, pished or not!

Oooh I hope Walker gets some space because he is quick. Big game for the kid.

Really? QF, RU, 4th, QF, Champs, RU, QF - record that suggest and merits high expectations, surely.

Hmmm, it's very interesting wrecker for sure. I have some sympathy with your point especially when it comes to Autumn internationals. Plus, the "occassion" aside, internationals can be rather dull affairs to watch these days*. This is tempered by the fact that we are talking professional sport played at the highest level involving.the best teams in the world (and Scotland 😉 ). For the coaches and the players, there can only really being one objective at this level. Sad to say, their jobs depend on it.

The SA press and public hound their coaches and players much more than we do BTW

* a telling recent moment for me was the last Lions match during the SA tour at Ellis Park. At the start, the spectacle (?!?) involved watching Steyn and Roberts run through each other. Then the glorious moments when the ball came to little Shaney and he chose to run around the oppo not through them!!!! The forgotten skill......

Is getting to the QF of the world cup a great result for a team with the resources of england.

Is getting to the QF of the world cup a great result for a team with the resources of england.

No. Given that we have more players than all of the rest of the unions in the world added together, we ought to be ruddy amazing. It is disappointing.

No not really, but then you are squaring wrecker's circle!

A NZ show us time and again, it's not about how many players you have. It's about how good the top 30-odd are and how they are coached to play. There's nothing inferior about English athletes, so that leaves one thing......

but then you are squaring wrecker's circle!

wrecker, you think the coaching sucks? I'm not doubting it btw, well, I really have no idea, anyway, how so?

wrecker, you think the coaching sucks?