[Closed] 2013/14 Rugby Thread

But, but how did a team with 12 lions lose THM?

Another Triple Crown for the knights in white.... The score flattered Wales who were absolutely woeful. Ireland will bottle it in Paris like they always do.

anagallis_arvensis - Member
I think they have been better than england. They were very unlucky to lose to england imo.

😆 😆 😆 😆

AA, makes you wonder doesn't it!! And the best coaching team.

Still I don't mind. Good aging team versus a young, green but maturing one! Plus home advantage. Very satisfying.

I think they have been better than england. They were very unlucky to lose to england imo.
Home advantage has told between France, Eng, Ire and Wales this season. If they can beat France they have done better than England.

Agreed if they beat France, just don't think there's been much of a difference up until now.

Ireland have been scoring tries for fun and their points difference hasn't been gifted to them... It reflects how well the have been playing. Ireland have been getting the job done very well so far. Despite really not being a bod or Ireland fan they definitely deserve it

Good aging team versus a young, green but maturing one!

what were the average ages of the respective teams?

AA, makes you wonder doesn't it!! And the best coaching team.

Are you suggesting the Lions players picked were not as good as the stout Yeomen English left behind? Or is that a defecto admission that you have just been trying some poor trolling all along with your stance that Wales are much the better team?

I think the Lions hangover has not helped Wales, of the Lions players only really Roberts is playing anything like he's capable of and he was injured for much of the tour. Even 1/2p isn't in the form he was. Look at the English players who were heavily involved; Corbisero, Cole, Croft, Tuilagi and Youngs. Ireland have done well without SOB whilst O'Connel and BOD are still playing well (showing their quality), they have missed the finishing prowess of Bowe and Zebo who have only just come back from long injuries.

I think they have been better than england. They were very unlucky to lose to england imo.

😆 😆 😆 😆

You do realise I'm talking about Ireland don't you, only a fool would say that was anything other than a 50:50 game. Ireland seemed well on top at half time and had a bit of a collective brainfart for tens mins after which let England right back in

England didn't do too badly today and will no doubt be pleased with not losing to Wales again, especially after the thumping they got last year. However, Wales didn't really turn up today either. AFAIR, they only won one scrum penalty and were battered all day up front, so much so that Gethin had a ten minute rest for repeated infringements. They dropped the ball (rather than were turned over) during most of their visits into the 22. England's discipline (6 kickable penalties given away) was poor and would have been punished harshly by a better team. Had Wales scored a try or two (and they had a fair few opportunities let down by poor execution a few times with either final pass or grubber kicks), it would have been a very different game.

Wales were really rather shit. England weren't.

No, everyone one of the welsh players in the Lions deserved their spot and I even agreed on the BOD decision. On paper, Wales are a better side. England are very inexperienced but maturing. Back three is closer this season mainly due to Brown but north and Cuthbert (wherever he playes) are still better. The rest of the back have been interesting. The only [b]clear [/b]advantage on paper pre match for me was 2, 4 and 5. The rest was close or adv wales.

There's no trolling in saying that another team (Wales) is better (on paper) than the one I support. Makes the result sweeter though I will admit. I agree with you (I think it was your point) about home advantage. You had more home games but not the key ones. We had the advantage of Ireland and Wales at home to offset France in Paris.

Old billy wasn't that bad today was he!?!?

Scrum stats were interesting - only 2 to Wales and 7 to England. Of the 7, how many were for knock ons?

The only way Wales were better on paper was looking at the names showing up. The biggest factor is that most of that reputation is a least a year or two old. On paper, taking in to account form and recent game time, England looked like favourites vs Wales which is what most people predicted beforehand too. No real surprise even for the most optimistic Welsh fan sadly

Old billy wasn't that bad today was he!?!?

12trees? He's OK but I'd pick Burrell and Tuilagi when Tuilagi is back.

On paper, Wales are a better side.

The games not played on paper anyone who has seen Wales play this season would no they were going in with Hope rather than expectation.

England are very inexperienced but maturing.

Which is different from what you said earlier. I believe the average age of the welsh team is about 26 and England was about 25 and I think I read that before Girafferis dropped out to be replaced by Ball who is 22. Just because Jamie Roberts has been around forever doesn't mean he's old he's only 27, Davies is 25 younger than Burrell, Faletau is 23, AW Jones is 28. Only really Gethin, Adam and Phillips are over 30.
Remind me again of the ages of England world cup winning team? (not that Wales are even nearly as good, or have any hope of winning the cup).
Much is down to Wales having to pick Lions playing off form due to lack of options

Ireland have been scoring tries for fun and their points difference hasn't been gifted to them... It reflects how well the have been playing. Ireland have been getting the job done very well so far. Despite really not being a bod or Ireland fan they definitely deserve it

Barring yesterdays result against italy - the respective england and ireland scores have been very similar just england conceded more esp today.

I forgot to mention Parling above too, whats happened to him?

I watched him having Physio on Friday. Hard to tell how fit he was as he as in the pool with weights.

Anyone else get annoyed by the English fans singing that song?

Rumour this side of the bridge is that 1/2P is out for the rest of the season. Obviously not seen by NHS or he would still be on the pitch waiting for an ambulance.
Sounds like bollocks to me.
England smashed em and it was fantastic. Gatland has no plan B when plan A goes shit shape.
I was a very happy Englishman sat in a Welsh rugby club chuckling to myself 😉

He was injured, then when he returned Lancaster finally realised that he isn't very good.

Good result for us today. Disappointing to concede all them penalties though. Did 1/2p have a kick within 40 metres? None of them came when the try line was under real threat. I'm amazed that Hartley lasted as long as he did....penalty magnet and could have picked up a yellow IMO. Should have been subbed much earlier.

Chuck in Carbs, Cole (although maybe Wilson is in better form) Billy V, Many, Wade and Yards, and we've got a pretty tasty looking side. Farrell is improving all the time and was excellent today-it'd be nice to have a solid understudy for him though.

Anyone else get annoyed by the English fans singing that song?

I do but I think that's the point.
I heard 1/2p has dislocated shoulder so could be out for a long time.
All this talk of Gatland lacking a plan B is a bit of a red herring as I'm not sure plan A involved them dropping the bloody ball all the time. You cannot plan for individual errors, it was the same v Ireland.
Having said that he should have hauled off both halfbacks and Gethin at half time.

None of them came when the try line was under real threat.

No need. Wales kept dropping the ball. 🙂

How is a dislocated shoulder a season ending injury for a pro?
Local front rows must get it once a month, knock it back in and charge out for the 2nd half :roll:.
I reckon he'll have a nice breather before flying over the channel 😆

He was injured, then when he returned Lancaster finally realised that he isn't very good

when was his return? I think he's still broken isn't he?

Anyone else get annoyed by the English fans singing that song?

Dire, boring and nothing to do with England before a few schoolboys and Chris Oti. Only matched by Flower of Scotland for "songs" I would like to loose from Rugby. Neither deserve to be heard outside the shower block, if at all.

Chris Oti was a big unit wasnt he! Those were the days, what was the name of the irish wing who was all knees and elbows?

Simon Geoghan (spl?), perhaps AA.

England showed more spark and more initiative. They also made fewer mistakes. When you do that in top level sport you get the correct result nine times out of ten because everyone on the pitch knows what they are doing. This reduces the available potential turning points to a few key ones.

Wales were asleep for the Care try. Absolutely fatal. Wales butchered at least two scores by taking the wrong option.

Halfpenny was just brilliant again. I wouldn't mind wagering his tackle on Burrell was deliberate self-sacrifice as it was the only way to hit him hard enough to stop the score.

I reckon you'll find a lot of Wales scrum problems emanated from the second row. Wyn Jones is good value for 'spittle down face' physicality, but I've never been convinced by his technique. Ball is not test class, at least not for now.

Thats the fella flashy.
The scrum problems came from Gethin not being square, nothing to do with the locks. Wales had the edge power wise its just that Gethin wasnt legal. It was shown by the scrum when James came on.

Geoghegan is how it was spelled Flash.

And in typically baffling Gaelic pronunciation, that would be pronounced "gaygan". 🙂

How is a dislocated shoulder a season ending injury for a pro?

I guess firstly it isn't confirmed to be a dislocation and secondly if it is, then a dislocation is like a fracture in that all are different and set time scales for recovery don't apply universally. The dislocation (if it is) might involve a significant amount of soft tissue damage too for example. Also there is only 2 months left of the season so 8 weeks is not all that long for a reasonably amount of damage to be fully treated and rehabbed.

To to stop Burrel in that situation was a monster tackle even if it was a massive sacrifice too. Technique aside, not many world fullbacks are as strong in the tackle as the last man as 1/2p.

Also it was good to see Twelvetrees come good again. I've always believed a centre pairing should be one creative one battering ram (or both if you're BOD). Wales centre pairing is just an extension of the pack and it showed when Roberts attempt at a grubber through was both poorly conceived and executed.

Hmm, I thought that Parking had played in the LV for tiggers, maybe not. I'm far from a fan of his and IMO he'll be behind Attwood too when fit.

Gethin was terrible today wasn't he....he was almost at 90 degrees in one scrum! Recon either him or Adam will play at Twickenham in the rwc?

Tom B - Member
Hmm, I thought that Parking had played in the LV for tiggers, maybe not. I'm far from a fan of his and IMO he'll be behind Attwood too when fit.

Doubt that will happen...

Parling controls the line out very well, and is very good in defence. I don't think he has played this season as he came back broken from the Lions tour... the one that Attwood wasn't invited on 😉

Vunipola seemed to be really struggling at the scrum when he came on.

🙂 I love the Parling 'lineout guru' tag.....England had the worst lineout stats of the 2013 6n's, when he played every game.

The great England teams of recent times won games off the back of a very dominant pack. This current team is winning games with intent, often without scrum superiority and that gives me great cause for optimism. Burrell, Lawes and Brown are real game changers. May and Nowell are exciting, but naive and inexperienced sometimes.

Considering we have Corbisiero, Cole, Croft, Tuilagi, Yarde and Wade to come back from injury, I'm feeling pretty happy with where we are at.

Tom B - Member
I love the Parling 'lineout guru' tag.....England had the worst lineout stats of the 2013 6n's, when he played every game.

What worse than Scotland or France, i doubt that very much

Yarde and Wade improve everytime they dont play 😉

Yhat clip sells Geoghegan short,I remember him as the punchiest winger ever.

Didnt he once score a hat-trick v england or was it scotland?

Tom B - Member
I love the Parling 'lineout guru' tag.....England had the worst lineout stats of the 2013 6n's, when he played every game.

What worse than Scotland or France, i doubt that very much

Worse than Scotland actually Frankers, same percentage won on own ball (82) lower on Opp throw in.

Two words, Tom Youngs.
Parling was excellent for Lions, having said that he's going to struggle to get passed Lawes and Launchbury when he's back.
So Wales next week:
What I'd like:
Hook
Cuthbert
Davies
Roberts
North
Biggar
Phillips
Faletau
Warbs
Lydiate
AW Jones
Ball
Lee
Owens
James

Gethin
Hibbard
Adam
Charteris
Tipuric
Richie Rees
Priestland
Liam Williams

what will happen:

Liam Williams
Cuthbert
Davies
Roberts
North
Prirstland
Webb
Faletau
Warbs
Lydiate
Aw Jones
Charteris
Adam
Hibbard
Gethin

Jaems
Owen
Rhodri Jones (can anyone explain why a scarlets second choice loosehead is Wales tight head cover?)
Ball
Tipuric
Phillips
Biggar
Hook

Can't really disagree on either team prediction a_a. Not sure about Samson Lee starting but Owens and James should definitely be given a proper chance. Perhaps keeping Lee in there keeps the continuity but he doesn't look up to scratch yet.

I like the significance of Hook being listed very last in the realistic team 😀

What comes across in the Welsh selection process (and even in substitutions during the game) is a lack of trust in the guys that aren't the big names. Almost at though they'd rather have a team firing at 50% but know what they're getting than mix things up any take any risk at all. Frustrating... but nothing new sadly.

Wales centre pairing is just an extension of the pack and it showed when Roberts attempt at a grubber through was both poorly conceived and executed.

JDavies effort was no better. And the passing was about the same standard too.
Imagine how dangerous North could be with a decent centre inside.

JDavies effort was no better. And the passing was about the same standard too.
Imagine how dangerous North could be with a decent centre inside.

Easily the best centre pairing in NH over last few years, its not Davies fault he was picked with only and hours rugby under his belt since Nov and at that time he'd only played a couple of games since the Lions.

Agreed, Davies is class and any team would want to have him. However, he's simply too rusty to be in form, and it showed.

Anyway:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/wales-beaten-at-rugby-by-country-that-doesnt-even-like-it-2014031084458

😆

A very good win for England, two highly important pressure games won back to back, all solid work in the RWC build up process. Wales didn't feature and weren't allowed to by an excellent performance. Farrell had his best game In a long time, kicked for position very well and kicked his goals and conversions. Aside from 1/2p I didn't see a single Welsh performance which matched their England equivalents. The first try was fabulous Wales standing around like bewildered baby rabbits in car headlights.England have some work to do as some poor decision making kept Wales in a game which they should have been truely buried in.

I don't subscribe to the logic Ireland are somehow better/more worthy than England as potential 6N winners. They lost the head to head and beat a Welsh team who had a very poor day. I'm personally glad England lost to France as a Grand Slam could have allowed them to believe they are better than they are, more work to do.

I wonder if 1/2p will sit out the season now and rest ahead of his move to Toulon. Doesn't seem much to play for internationally and for "club". He was outstanding again yesterday.

Edit: will read back on the BOD discussion later, he's been an outstanding for sure. Best Northern Hemisphere player ? Over the longer period he's been operating internationally he's had his highs and lows (he wasn't very good on the Lions tour) yes he's been the most consistent high performer but he hasn't reached the heights Wilkenson did and he hasn't delivered a RWC winners medal and runner up to his country in the way Johhny has done, indeed neither has Carter.

I thought Warburton was very good in defeat, that England allowed a shambolic wales to stay in the game for so long should be a worry. England didnt comprehensively dismantle Wales like Ireland did.
Not sure 1/2p will have much choice as he will most lkely need surgery. England could do with working on the breakdowns out wide too, the larger Wales backs did very well in that repect by pushing the english off the ball. I reckon that my have been the thinking behind kicking the ball so long and allowing the back three to run it back. I was impressed with Nowel's kicking game, May is a headless liability though IMO.

Yep. Yarde for May IMO. I wish Nowell had backed himself to run that ball tbh but to be fair that's probably lack of confidence given his experience to date.

that England allowed a shambolic wales to stay in the game for so long should be a worry

Wales were never in the game.

duckman - Member

Tom B - Member
I love the Parling 'lineout guru' tag.....England had the worst lineout stats of the 2013 6n's, when he played every game.

What worse than Scotland or France, i doubt that very much

Worse than Scotland actually Frankers, same percentage won on own ball (82) lower on Opp throw in.

Fair enough you can't argue with the stats... though wasnt it last year that Tom Youngs through-ins were a bit rubbish ??

Wales were never in the game.

A lucky try at any point and poor as they played they made a few chances, and it would have been squeaky bum time for sure. Conceding 18 points of pens would worry me. Do that against an inform team and they would be screwed. You have obviously forgotten the 2008 game.

I'm with AA pm this one. Wales were there for a proper dismantling, yet stupidity kept Wales within a few points for a long period of the game. It only needed North to get the ball in a one on one, and Wales would have been in the lead.
The dirty kiwi biter needs a good hard look at himself, although I thought the one for taking out Tongan in the air was pretty unfair - he wasn't a lineout jumper, he just tried to jump the tackle!
English wings need a bit more aggression. I could see Tuilagi coming back onto the wing - he's not a 100m player, but over 30-40, he's fast enough. May needs to learn which way forwards is as well

ok, so we let 1/2p practice his kicking a bit.

It only needed North to get the ball in a one on one, and Wales would have been in the lead.

don't bet on it - he had two opportunities and fluffed them both.

I thought three of the penalties were pretty unlucky, although two were definitely correct. Lawes must have felt the tackler's hands slipping and thought he had been released so carried on only for the tackler to just maintain his hold on his foot. It is immensely difficult to avoid touching a knocked on ball when it is coming straight at you - it is an instinctive reaction, so I have some sympathy for Hartley there (although Morgan managed it a few minutes earlier). And I am still confused how the Falateu tackle was a penalty as he wasn't a jumper so again Hartley seems to have been unlucky - would appreciate a better informed view.

I was at the game and England were very dominant, seemed to be a yard faster, with great line speed in defence. (Whilst the dominance did not open a gap on the scoreboard until the second half, the crowd did not seem in the least bit nervous.) I thought it was very similar to Ireland's performance against Wales, neither team gave Wales enough time to play and they became rattled, but Ireland were slightly more clinical. These two teams have been the best and I think either would be a worthy champion.

Jonny Wilkinson did not win the World Cup for England alone, he played behind one of the greatest packs in the history of the game, and had some pretty handy talent alongside in the backs too. Whilst BOD has played in some very fine Irish sides, they never quite had the weight of quality and form at the right time to win a World Cup and that can't be held against him. He is certainly the most complete NH back I have seen in the modern game.

And I am still confused how the Falateu tackle was a penalty as he wasn't a jumper so again Hartley seems to have been unlucky - would appreciate a better informed view.

Not any better informed, but I agre with that.
The scrums were my bug bear, one case wales going forward English front row pop up wales pinged for driving up, next Wales going forward Wales front row pop up, wales pinged for popping up. As for Gethin I have no idea how the ref knows if it was Gethin driving in or Wilson turning in, having said that Gethin should have been able to sort it out but once Wilson had the protection of the ref he could just turn in surely.
As was said by Gareth Llewellyn said on Scrum V Wales scrummaged strongly but not intelligently.

England wee the better side regardless but it would be nice to see scrums finished. I cant helped thinking that if refs stopped bloody giving pens so often it would help.

Sir Clive gives us his amazing insight into why Wales lost. I expect he thinks Gatland should have taken a spin Dr to Aus with the Lions too

The former British Lions coach was also concerned when watching Wales in the warm-up.

He said: “I was pitchside during Wales’s warm-up and I cannot believe the colour of their tracksuit. “It is the most awful grey and whoever chose it needs to be taught a few things about professionalism.

“It reminded me of when Manchester United were losing 3-0 at half-time to Southampton and Sir Alex Ferguson ordered his players to change out of their dreadful grey strip.

“That afternoon in April 1996 was the fifth and final time United wore that strip and they failed to win a game in it — losing four and drawing one.

“Wales have an amazing colour and it is called red. This is a professional sport and you need to look the part.

“England looked totally professional in the warm-up — all the players, coaches and staff were in the right colours.

“Wales looked awful and it was not helped by the sight of [b]Jake Ball warming up in grey with a 2ft long red beard. It just doesn’t look professional.”.....

sauce is the Daily Flail so I havent included a link

Looking to the future.
Wales Under 20's 7 - England Under 20's 67 😆

Did Paul Moriarty's kid play for england? Beat wales in the world cup final last year didnt they?

Don't forget that England U18 beat their Scottish counterparts 28-6 yesterday as well.

Woodward should of been run out of rugby after the Lions tour he ruined, the man is a twunt of the highest order

To be fair to Sir Clive he's ok on the beeb but obviously has to say something for Daily Wail clickbait.

What was up with Farrell making a Gareth Bale-esque (heart shaped?) hand gesture every time he kicked a penalty?

What was up with Farrell making a Gareth Bale-esque (heart shaped?) hand gesture every time he kicked a penalty?

No doubt it'll be something to do with him being a massive cock.

Anyone just see the LV highlights?

Not really vintage Gavlaa was it 😯
First time I've seen him play for a while. Can't imagine that we'll see him again anytime soon!

That was my first thought DD 😀

A quick Google suggests he dedicated the Wales victory to an ill son of a friend. I was curious if he does the hand gesture thing all the time so we can lambast him for being a knob or if it was a one off thing with good intentions behind it despite outwardly appearing like a knob...

Zach Kibirige try for England U20 against Wales:

(Sorry if this has already been posted, I had a quick look but couldn't see it!)

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-26498496 ]Plaid Cymru MP questions warbs being captain as he described himself as british[/url]

Anyone seen that? why can't politicians stay out of sport.

Nice try! He looks pretty handy.

Oh and genuine lol

deadlydarcy - Member
What was up with Farrell making a Gareth Bale-esque (heart shaped?) hand gesture every time he kicked a penalty?
No doubt it'll be something to do with him being a massive cock.

That is a cracking try, would have been outclassed by the Burrell one yesterday if 1/2p hadn't made such a suicidal but awesome tackle

Re Farrell's gesture:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/owen-farrell-dedicates-win-terminally-3225046

Worth googling before comments are made perhaps.

I'm sure it was a heartfelt gesture on his part. He's still a massive cock.

I can't deny the latter statement 😀

Did the itv 4 highlights show the reverse angle for Gavs yellow card? It was a very good tackle and he ripped the ball during it an Exeter player kicked it on and the ref guessed wrong on the tail of lots of bath infringements. Hardly a vintage display but he didnt do much wrong, him and that saffer 7 missed a crucial tackle. Heathcote was the one who started the rot mind with a daft chip and chase combined with getting run over by the return. That Tongan fella is bloody fast!! The Bath pack got bummed especially in the lineout.

With tackling like that in the U20 game it's no wonder it was a cricket score

All the U20 tries here. Some lovely offloads.

grahamt1980 - Member
That is a cracking try, would have been outclassed by the Burrell one yesterday if 1/2p hadn't made such a suicidal but awesome tackle

Burrell played his joker getting that first one 😉

Looking at the U20 tries, did someone tell the welsh that it was only touch rugby?!

Looking at the U20 tries, did someone tell the welsh that it was only touch rugby?!

To be fair, thats true for some of them, TBH the bloke who beats 7 men, whilst it looks good, it's unrealistic in test rugby..
There are others tries in that video where the man is well tackled, but the offloads and support play are what make them great tries.