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duckman
I still can't help but feel that this is still a power play by EPL
Regions could be jumping from the frying pan in to the fire?
Those dastardly English! 😆
Gwyn Jones [URL= http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/gwyn-jones-anglo-welsh-competition-not-6394750 ]take[/URL] on things
That article is 99% bollocks.
Err yes,gets Scotland and ireland and the welsh RFU to jump to the English tune. Still haven't seen anything about who is going to play for the new welsh teams,or how they propose to stay IN the prem,other than AA stating that some backers would come forward...
Love that article,800 years of oppression,makes jiffy look balanced...and AA.
Ummm, the new teams won't be in the prem, the old ones will.
The new teams will be staring from scratch and if the WRU doesn't increase the funding they'll have exactly the same problems that the existing regions are having.
The wru see the regions as financially and commercially inept. this is the main reason for not increasing the funds.
They have money to invest and i wouldn't be surprised to see considerably better funding made available for new regions under their own control,this is the key!
Probably be difficult time for the teams over the next few years, would likely be a mix of youngsters and overseas talent and experience while the pool of welsh players with international ambitions trickles back from the rebel regions.
Roger Lewis is buisness man and his main focus is the WRU making profit so it makes sense to let the regions go if they are bad for buisness.
I don't think he gives a hwt about 150 years of rugby tradition.
Not Not's got new owners, wonder if they will stay at the Jetski?
Passenger reserve list maybe? 🙂
Meeting over! Nothing resolved 🙁
More talk needed on Anglo-Welsh.
Union same money on the table.
Probably turn into a bit of a soap opera!
London irish get new backers from ireland...is it just me wondering if that could be a way of getting the irish a route in too.
Waiting for the Rabo bus? makes sense to me!
Bearing in mind that Irish were born when their owner bought Scottish and Richmond just to stay in prem(used to have both badges on part of jumper tucked in and were the exiles for about 5 mins while they hoped to capture the LS support) l can't see it. How do you transplant Munster/ulster/leinster's heritage into a fake team?
Same way Ospreys are not Neath or Swansea, you dont. But if the welsh jump ship irish domestic rugby is rubber ducked.
But if the welsh jump ship irish domestic rugby is rubber ducked
It needed necessarily be, since the Irish provinces still manage to do pretty damn well in Europe despite a reasonably weak Rabo league. So long as there is a strong European competition they might not take much of a hit.
The strength of the Irish clubs over the Welsh seemed to be the ability to afford a decent selection of overseas internationals and a strong overall squad (rather than just a strong team) with the extra tax breaks and ticket sales (these could drop off though). Ironically it might even give more scope to develop Irish players in the Rabo and maintain Euro success if they can keep hold of the top level overseas guys that really add to the squad. Just a thought.... probably an over-optimistic thought though!
I think your glass is half full Dan.
Irish already play weaker teams in the Rabo,they also have a long embedded district/province set up that fans identify with eg; Landsdowne players aspire to play for Leinster and the province players all still id with their club. There isn't as strong a comp this coming year as the English clubs are out, which if the Welsh join them,they would have to be as well,and then their would begin the Welsh domination of the Amlin,as none of them would qualify for European cup in the Premiership,esp under the way the English want it allocated. Oh hang on,unless 4 Welsh multi millionaires turned up and the French returned 75% of the national squad. So while I agree with A-A's assertion about domestic rugby (for us as well) I think it would only be a stay of execution for the Welsh.
Fair enough, it's not often I get accused of being optimistic 😀
Quite alarming really how the outcome of the Euro competition format potentially hits all leagues below and potentially affects player selection during internationals above it and shakes (or messes) up the game as a whole in the NH. I can understand all of the Welsh troubles, but it seems odd that it is the PRL causing most of the noise when actually they are the one with the biggest club budgets and greatest league stability
4 Welsh multi millionaires turned up
Cuddy? Peter Pies? Before it became apparent that the domestic competitions in Wales were shit and no fans were interested the welsh regions did have a fair wack of money. Given a fan base the backers may well return. They dont need all the team wales players to return to be competitive, they just need some modern day, MArty Holahs, Regan Kings, Terblanche, Filo Tiatia
Matthews from Celtic Manor was meant to be putting mega bucks into the Dragons but it didnt happen. Brown was there sugardaddy and brought the like of Percy Montgomery to Newport.
why would anyone have put money in when it became apparent the fans didnt care?
Come on AA fans do care don't know how long it has been since you lived in Wales but in Swansea Ospreys were well liked, problem is as you say rubbish games that mean sod all, Zebre on a freezing night for £30 no thanks.
Big games like Leicester in HC had about 16000 and the place was buzzing.
Come on AA fans do care don't know how long it has been since you lived in Wales but in Swansea Ospreys were well liked, problem is as you say rubbish games that mean sod all, Zebre on a freezing night for £30 no thanks.Big games like Leicester in HC had about 16000 and the place was buzzing.
yep thats what I was trying to say, poor choice of words.
We both know nothing will change though, right?
We both know nothing will change though, right?[/quoteHistory says you are right but something has to give soon. Shirley it does. I am forever the optimist 😀
So the fans do/don't care, all they need is for them to have some fans/they already do and the backers will turn up.One of you must be wrong. I can also kind of see why a team that belongs in London might be a slightly more attractive attraction that say...
Pigface - Member
Come on AA fans do care don't know how long it has been since you lived in Wales but in Swansea Ospreys were well liked, problem is as you say rubbish games that mean sod all, Zebre on a freezing night for £30 no thanks.Big games like Leicester in HC had about 16000 and the place was buzzing.
Now that shows the problem. Leicester get 20000 to a crappy home game, and fill the stadium for every big team (24000). They make a profit, but not by a huge amount (OK, 2012 they didn't but were paying for a new stand in the accounts to take it from 18k to 24k seats). To really stand on your own feet, you need the fanbase to keep the income rolling in.
That's not to say I wouldn't love the welsh to be in the AP, I used to love the old Tigers LLLLLLanelllllli matches, with that monster black forward and No8 (names are really escaping me today!) they had.
Ducks stop being disingenuous read what AA said.
So the fans do/don't care, all they need is for them to have some fans/they already do and the backers will turn up.One of you must be wrong. I can also kind of see why a team that belongs in London might be a slightly more attractive attraction that say...
why must one of us be wrong? The rabo is shit and people dont want to watch it thats the reason a number of backers walked away from the regions. If the product is right the fans will return and maybe backers will too.. The teams still get decent crowds for the derbies but last year half of them didnt see the best players play just to suit team wales.
Quinnel and Madden?
Oxford scrum half sent off during Varsity match, now come on chaps that's just not on 😆
Pigface,what exactly has he said? So far we have had claims that BT would fund the expansion of the EPL to fund the welsh teams,no answers as to who will play for them,WHY anybody would sign for them or any realization that they are All angel delight as well. Or do they just not try because they don't enjoy the rabo? Also speculation that backers,during a recession are going to buy into a welsh club side which has a future that can best be termed as "fluid." Welsh sides could not compete in the prem just now. If you expand the prem to include the welsh,even allowing for the English backlash,the welsh share would be less than the current salary cap. BThave already stated that their contract allows them to screen x amount of games a year and doesn't have to be renegotiated depending on the size of the league;so again,how do they fund it,who plays for them and how do you convince the ambitious clubs in england to support them above their own ambitions?
Ducks I was specifically referring to his reply to me, can't be bothered to read and remember all that has been said before. I apologise if you got the wrong end of the stick.
Duckman, do you really believe the ospreys couldnt beat the likes of sale, newcastle or Worcester home and away?
Oh and a future best termed as fluid is a massive step up from a future best termed as ****ed.
Quinnel and Madden?
Thats them. Utter animals, they never, ever failed to get over the gain line (normally a LONG way over!)
Madden was so frustrating really talented player but a lazy sod apparently, his center of gravity was so low you couldn't knock him over 😆 he just kept rumbling along.
AA;based on this season with less experienced players,the only thing you would have to look forward to would more meaningful derby matches. Honestly,do you think you can sustain 3 teams in the prem. What happens to the teams that go down,more than one season in the championship equals a financial disaster and would cost what would be expected to be a source of international players experience. In fact dont you think relegation would put them into a worse hole than they are now? Can you really claim that patchwork teams dropped into the prem would beat anybody,oh and the squad that the ospreys have is 5 the in the rabo,how will they improve this?
I dont believe the current situation is sustainable. I have said it for a long time now. Domestic pro rugby in wales will be dead within a few years if nothing changes. Playing glasgow, munster and zebre is not box office, we see very little home support and almost no away support, maybe we should follow the scots example and cut to two pro teams as thats really working isnt it? The cause of the problems start and end with the rabo being shit. Joining the english may not be the answer but staying as is isnt either.
Nothing will change anyway and the game will.whither and die
So what is the solution? Rugby is finished in Scotland anyway,no matter what happens to the RABO.Is it a case that there will be a top tier comprising of England,France,Saffers NZ and Oz and a second tier of the rest of the home nations? With club contests to match. Can't believe the EPL wouldn't love to flip off the RFU and clear off to Summer rugby with the super how-ever-many.
Look at it from the existing regions point of view; they were set up by the WRU. The WRU has failed (whichever way you look at it) to fund them adequately making them the poorest (in financial terms) teams in the RABO. The deal currently on the table is worse than their last deal.
What are they to do? The WRU wants them to die; should they just accept it and go away? The owners of the regions (Peter Thomas et al) must have invested money, is it right that the WRU expect them to just wave bye bye to that?
Staying in the RABO is simply not an option for them; they'd be bankrupt in short order, so they go looking for other opportunities. Not to try would be bad business. This is about survival.
If "they" are formed by the WRU, how much say have the regions got? They loose all contracted players and I can't see how they would be better off,speculation about crowd increases is all very well as is backers,but it takes 10 years to fund and build a team,and the Welsh clubs need more than a business plan. How long does it take to grow a competitive squad without money, a decade imo; Glasgow are an example of that,they were hamstrung by the SRU being unwilling to spend,now the SRU is spending they are at the right end.Is it not the case that the WRU have reduced their budget as they are unwilling to sustain losses?
There is a piece in the Times about the Irish guys who have bought the Reading wannabies, they are London based and are cautioning that they will not be spending big.I think that might be the end of speculation about them being an Irish trojan horse.
The WRU formed them, but Blues aside they are privately owned clubs (much like those in the AP). Their players are theirs. Wales don't have any central contracts at present.
All of your concerns apply to the proposed "new" welsh clubs more than they do to the existing ones whether thay join the AP or not.
Not really because the Welsh clubs that join the Prem will be the "new" clubs. They still have the issues of being competitive,or being relegated. Even if the Welsh Nigel Wray stepped forward,Sale were a good example of how you cannot buy a place in the League. And any of the new clubs that goes down will make the rabo seem exotic; Cardiff v Ding Crusaders anybody? Still, another two weeks and it will all be clearer as do they not have untill the new year to sign?
As much as I think the Welsh would be screwed in England,I know the Rabo is screwed as well. If money wasn't a factor and it was purely about growing the game and improving crowds and entertainment,we could have a two tier British league of 14 and 16 teams,any team promoted to the second has a years grace from relegation to allow them the chance to adjust. TBH that would probably save the rugby in my country as well because despite Glasgow's crowds being up,the rabo is rubbish and isn't a draw.
Not really because the Welsh clubs that join the Prem will be the "new" clubs.
They will still have their contracts in place with the players though.
Oh and it's Dings Crusaders, and I've played them many times. Nearly drowned on their pitch once! They reside in a less than affluent area of Bristol and do very well on the pitch considering they have a fraction of the money than the toffy nosed pricks at Clifton.
Point remains that the Welsh clubs/regions etc are not joining the English to play in the less desireable areas of Bristol.And also,how well are those contracted players doing in the Rabo? Contracts work both ways,if they wanted to compete or survive they would need to improve their squads, you have to pay up the players you want rid off,a huge cost. And who do you replace them with?
They don't have a choice. The WRU has taken them to the vets and the needle is out. They try and escape or it's going in.
Which would make the Prem the dogs trust... 😆
Which would make the Prem the dogs trust...
I happen to like the dogs trust. Hang on. What just happened?
If the welsh regions jumped ship and I am confident they wont they would survive. Christ London Welsh had a few worried until they were docked points. They make the Ospreys look like the Galacticos they once were.
anagallis_arvensis - Member
If the welsh regions jumped ship and I am confident [b]they wont they would[/b] survive.
Have you been on the sauce already ?
Just throw in a few commas and go about trying to find your life
Sale 3 tries to nowt against oyonnax so far..
Sorry, 4 tries. 34-0 at half time
Gaskell scores the first try, Cipriani the second,Braid the third and Cueto the 4th. Cipriani hits all his goals.
Can the 2nd half be better?
Can our resident referee tell me why Harley was done for obstruction when he removed Patchell from ruck area preceding the score? Not sure of this...
Bugger me backwards.
Sale 53-14 Oyonnax. 7 tries to sale, 2 to Oyonnax. Cipriani misses one kick all night.
Why oh why did i decide to skip this game?
Not seen it,it's all BT in my house now,wife is Welsh and we are trying to do our bit for the Blues finances next season.
I could only afford one game before Xmas so plumped for the LI game next week - bloody regretting it now! Apparently Cipriani scored a potential try of the season .
Who were Sale playing? Wouldn't get to excited about a big score against a team no one has heard of or pronounce 😆
Ospreys a good win, too little to late.
Oyonnax, no id not heard much about them before either but a 9 try game is still a good one to watch.
great start from Scarlets 😥
Cheers for the Scarlets heads up a_a. They were really outgunned the other week by Clermont... but a great try for the Scarlets!
That Rhys Patchell kick was bloomin' impressive, in to the wind too 😯
Jordan Williams got one over from about 55-60m against Clermont with tons of distance to spare too. I hadn't seen him kick before but it was quite a feat from someone not normally associated with kicking
Anyone see the Leinster northampton game and able to report on how North went at 13? He could be a real threat there for wales in the future.
Big results today, don't know what is going wrong at Glaws.
Talented backs are no use if they get cold hands Pigface,they are also no use if you make them play up front( that is what Glaws have done this season isn't it?)Don't know what they are doing up front,Hamilton said in an interview they didn't offer him a contract,which is daft looking at where they are getting beaten this year.
Anyone see the Leinster northampton game and able to report on how North went at 13? He could be a real threat there for wales in the future.
Well the Irish press reckon he outplayed BOD so he must have done well
'Even Brian O'Driscoll, majestic in Franklin's Gardens, was rendered a humdrum figure on his home turf, outplayed by George North, the giant Welshman shifting to midfield after the away side were also forced into a late reshuffle.'
full article here:
From all accounts Glaws had dominance in the forwards but were wasteful, my mate who was there said it was awful.
Hibbard is on his way there next season.
Wales centre better than BOD! Burn Gatland!
Afoa and Hibbard should bulk up the front row!
I was at the weedgie game and it was the same, 4 knock-ons from Glasgow in first 5 mins. Cardiff were short of most of a team for some reason,yet we couldn't beat them. The assault case is really getting inside the Glasgow teams mentality.
@muddy - don't mean to be a grump but 53-17 is a boring match.
I watched Toulon/Exeter and Perpignan/Munster, latter was quite dull till last 10 mins but what a finish. Of those teams none of them looked likely HC winners on current form.
Toulon's president stated they wouldn't sign Warburton as he wanted too much money but they are after Halfpenny, makes sense with JW to retire and Giteau is playing very well. [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/10517573/Leigh-Halfpenny-wanted-by-Toulon-but-move-for-Sam-Warburton-is-ruled-out.html ]Toulon/Warburton/Halfpenny[/url]
Saint Wilks has been offered another year. What on earth was Warburton asking for if Toulon couldn't afford him? Reading over his demands "Sacre Bleau! It says here that he wants his wages in exotic spices,delivered by Golden Unicorn twice daily!"
What on earth was Warburton asking for if Toulon couldn't afford him?
Toulon have invested a lot in their squad already, the president doesn't have an endless supply of money, typically the French clubs spend money on play makers, big money for a forward ? Warburton's a fabulous player but I can see why Toulon would prefer Halfpenny. I think they are chasing Rory Kockott too, the Castres scrum half you had a big part in beating them in the Top 14 final.
the president doesn't have an endless supply of money
He has said the club are self sufficent...he is also worth 50million,so he DOES have an endless supply of money 😀
Take your point about playmakers mind, Halfpenny is a better player anyway.
As noted above, with Burns probably off, Hibbard to Glaws - a great signing. After our cup final against Worcester on Sunday, hopefully a win means they can then start planning for next season. Its not lost on me that Dean Ryan's last home game in charge at Glaws was a loss to Worcester.
Gatland confirmed Wales coach until 2019. Interesting to extend to 2 more World cups at this stage, if they cannot beat Australia the 2015 one might end at the pool stage.
http://balls.ie/rugby/holy-crap-sebastien-chabal-get-away-just-yellow-card/
wonder if this guy got concussion 😯
Full back Armitage given up on england.
Shame, he's an utter bell end but a very good player.
@aa - I was watching the video for a late hit on a half back ! As the article says its the look of disbelief which is incredible. He's still on TV ads in France even though he's in the lower league, seems to be as popular there as he was in the UK.
I thought Armitage had given up on England when he went to Toulon. He seems to have lost his place to the Aussie (sorry I'm terrible with names) and if h/p goes there he's going to have to find a new position or club. Hard to see how he'd be selected ahead of Brown or Goode for example for England anyway.
Goode? GOODE?
Foden is current second choice, and I think Watson will/should be in sooner rather than later.
AA Chabal slapped him,shame how the mighty have fallen