[Closed] 2013/14 Rugby Thread

So did Phil Sackey 8)

Barrett?
Tuilagi is on the teamsheet. I'd go Burrell inside, he's been the stand out centre in the prem this season. Possibly not for the AB game though. I also think the Chiefs' Sam Hill is going to be pretty awesome in the not too distant.

With all due; the English backs have looked disjointed in the two games so far. Englands best hope is to use their vastly superior back row to choke the life out of the Blacks backs....Oh wait... 😛

I still reckon that Rollands accent went from soft Irish in 1H to full gallic in the 2H. It was weird.

I wish refs would regain some authority with the back chat and advice. Tell the players to shut up, stop appealing for things and allow the capt to speak only when play has been halted. And then not to over do it. We want to keep the sport distinct from wendyball after all.

Interetsting to see the different viewpoints of Graham Price v Brian Moore on the yellow cards. I am siding with Moore at the moment, the responsibility ultimately lies with the players. But the scrum is becoming bloody tiresome these days.

I wish refs would regain some authority with the back chat and advice.

Bring back Clive Norling! 🙂

However, Nige is the man!

Great clip Flashy, thanks!!!

With all due; the English backs have looked disjointed in the two games so far.

The ABs will rip 12T and Tomkins apart

I'd be amazed if this isn't AB's gameplan A

Barrett is good defensively, but I think other than against the AB's (and I can only assume they didn't bother to mark him as it's never happened before!), he's never broken the line before and any rare ball that Fazlet gets out to him, dies in his arms. Kind of makes anyone decent outside of him pointless.
I haven't watched Burrell, but will keep my eyes open.

I haven't watched Burrell, but will keep my eyes open.

the problem is, seems like they won't change it.

And that's the real frustration with Lancaster, I'm 100% behind the pick on form, however he doesn't apply it. Youngs is not playing great for Tigers, Fazlet is the 2nd best English flyhalf at Saracens, 12T was playing very well last season, Tomkins I'll admit I'm don't know, Ashton is pathetically poor, I'll be buggered if I can remember the other wing, but he's a fullback and I reckon that the fullback's actually playing very well.
The packs about the best we have, minus a couple of injuries, and I can see Graham Rowntree's work there, but they'll be matched by the all blacks, while the backs rip us apart.
At least Wales entertain while they loose!

Will be intresting to see how walrs play next week. With Roberts,Cuthbert and Davies gone from the backs plan A of run straight and best them up wont work, especially with Beck at 12. Wonder if they will play wider and select Tips and Warbs together, Lydiate wasnt great anyway.

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How on earth did the Ashton try get given? Unbelievable.

I can only think its a conspiracy to keep him in the england team!
Go Gashton Go. He's great.

The thing that amazes me most about Tips is that he'd probably be much better on the wing than any of the wings that have started for England this Autumn 🙁

And the centres! He's seriously talented just lacks warbs bulk.

Having disturbing images of AA in a cheer leader outfit with pom poms shouting give me an A, give me an S give me an H. . . . . . . .

That may give Darcy the strangest . . . . .

I've just been reading this thread back a little and I don't understand something.

Wales are (in my mind) a clearly a better side than England.
Australia are a better side than England
I expect England to beat Australia
And I expect Australia to beat Wales

And I think this is thought the same by a lot of people, but why? Wales are better than England, yet England fans, team and media expect them to win, Wales are plucky losers yet England are shite if they fail to win.
Any thoughts (other than get on with your work!)?

It is about the dynamics of STW

AA is the self appointed rugby expert on here who is sucked up to by most people, and thinks he has "an understanding of rugby" which is greater than everyone else's.
A large proportion of the other participants are also Non England supporters, the remainder are made up of England supporters who dare not argue with the great AA as he has more clever sounding phrases in his armoury.
A few are idiots like me who waste their breath trying to counter the PoMo rubbish that is spouted on here about Rugby.

Thus anti English/pro Wales sentiment is strong here.

If you look at the statistics, England win more games on the world stage than Wales, so in theory are better, but Wales can raise their game against England through bitterness or something, (and probably intimidate the little rose somehow) but seem to be unable to regularly bottle this feeling and use it elsewhere.
There is also the size of the pool to consider. England should be about 100 times better than Wales as our population is 100 times bigger, so that makes us especially crap and Wales especially good pro rata (which is true I agree with this)

So your assertions

Wales are better than England, yet England fans, team and media expect them to win, Wales are plucky losers yet England are shite if they fail to win.

Are only true if you believe them.

I think in general England are better than Wales, as is proven on the world stage. Your opinion may differ.

the rest comes down to minority effects much like racism, Wales can hate England as we oppressed them in the past, we cannot hate Wales as that would be racist. Thus whilst I believe it is a fact that if England or Wales lose it is because they are shite, but you cannot berate Wales for losing as it is always England's fault, even if they lose to Fiji.

(I'm invoking the Edinburgh defence in advance, whilst I believe all of the above to be true, nobody deserves to die over a game of rugby, so please do not come and burn my house down in the name of Owain Glyndwr I am just putting the banter out there OK...)

Speaking as am English supporter who doesn't care about crossing AA... and has played county level rugby....

As a team England are better than Wales, full stop. However they are better by having more players at mediocre plus level, rather than a couple of players at outstanding level as have Wales. It's a 25 man game after all.

Everyone wants to beat England - call it the kick back of colonialism or whatever you will, and I believe most teams carry a psychological edge against England, with the exception of the AB's who are pretty much the whole package.

There, I said it.

As a team England are better than Wales

Is AA an expert? Are any of us experts, I just enjoy watching the game and having some banter about it.

I do agree in part about beating england, for me it is hard wired into my DNA for the Kiwis and Australians I have spoken to it is a range of reasons, Not sure the Irish Scottish or South Africans are that bothered, a win is a win.

I could be wrong.

errr no they are not

a win is a win.

As england win more than wales...

I'm in scotland right now, and they hate us more than the welsh I can assure you. In Wales its piss taking and abuse, in scotland its actual death..

Pigface - Member

I do agree in part about beating england, for me it is hard wired into my DNA for the Kiwis and Australians I have spoken to it is a range of reasons, Not sure the Irish Scottish or South Africans are that bothered, a win is a win.

The SAs hate England just as much as anyone else judging by a NZ v Eng game I watched in Cape Town a few years ago. I was genuinely surprised by the vociferous support of NZ.

toys19 - Member

I'm in scotland right now, and they hate us more than the welsh I can assure you. In Wales its piss taking and abuse, in scotland its actual death..

You English boys don't really understand the Welsh 'hatred' thing do you? It's not hatred at all, but it would take too long to explain it, and would take the thread too far away from rugby.

By the way, as to A_A being an expert, didn't I read on here that he's only about 26? Or did I make that up?

Wales are better than England

Well, I must say every time I watch wales, I think, blimey, I wish some of the English play was like that! Then I look at the scoreboard* and wonder what on earth is wrong....

Not sure I even understand m own mind

*Of course, this doesn't apply to the six nations last year, any more than The england performance against NZ is indicative of normal performances

These threads* have made me derive more satisfaction from Wales losing than England losing. I'd never have thought that possible. 🙂

*and Gatling.

These threads* have made me derive more satisfaction from Wales losing than England losing. I'd never have thought that possible.

*and Gatling.

And me...

TBH I always stubbornly support Wales, just show the Welsh how a Rugby supporter should behave.

Toys; you are zokes in disguise and I claim my £10.

Nah, but I would happily welcome him into my bed..

Well, I must say every time I watch wales, I think, blimey, I wish some of the English play was like that! Then I look at the scoreboard* and wonder what on earth is wrong....

I often think that, then my welsh father in law will say, "if those boys concentrated on winning rather than looking pretty, Wales would win more often"

toys19 - Member
TBH I always stubbornly support Wales, just show the Welsh how a Rugby supporter should behave.

I don't support Andy Murray just because he's British, don't support Lewis Hamilton just because he's British, don't support the English cricket team just because they're British. Why on earth would I support the English rugby team just because they're near to where I live? That's as irrational as hating them for the same reason! 😉

Reading that back ^^^^^^ it doesn't quite make sense in the way I hoped! I meant 'I don't support ****** ONLY because...' if that makes any more sense? 🙄 🙂

I support Wales as they are part of my nation whether thy like it or not.
It is to do with my own received wisdom about rugby manners instilled as I learnt the game.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't hate the Welsh. I do however hate a_a 😀

toys19 - Member

I support Wales as they are part of [u]my nation [/u]whether thy like it or not.

That might be the difference there Toys. I'm Welsh. Never think of myself as British.

I love these debates!!!

I'm Welsh. Never think of myself as British.

Ok, I can understand that.

I'm English. Never think of myself as British.

Arrogant **********'!!!!! 😉

Rare that I feel sorry for AA! C'mon guys he does do some great gifs.

THM, don't get me wrong I love AA, imagine if we all agreed?

PS

I love these debates!!!

I'm Welsh. Never think of myself as British.
Ok, I can understand that.

I'm English. Never think of myself as British.
[s]Arrogant[/s]Racist **********'!!!!!

Anyway this:

I'm Welsh. Never think of myself as British.

Is very sad, the faster full devolution comes the better.

It's the Orangemen that have to play in green that I feel sorry for. There's an identity crisis for you. 😀

That really is odd Darcy isn't it? I always think that during the anthems!!

Jonathan Davies off to Clermont. THey will potentially have him and Fofana in the centres with Sivivatu and Nalanga on the wings 😯

teamhurtmore - Member

I love these debates!!!

I'm Welsh. Never think of myself as British.

Ok, I can understand that.

I'm English. Never think of myself as British.

Arrogant **********'!!!!!

No, not at all. I doubt that any Welsh/Scot/Irish person cares whether you think of yourself as English or British. We get stroppy when you confuse English/British.

Very true IJ

I doubt that any Welsh/Scot/Irish person cares whether you think of yourself as English or British

Yes, probably very true.

I doubt that any English person cares whether you think of yourself as Welsh or British

Arrogant *************. My nationality and heritage is important. 😉

It's the Orangemen that have to play in green that I feel sorry for. There's an identity crisis for you.

lol - when we are playing England its even worse, Rory Best doesn't know whether to sit/stand, sing the Queen or sing the sash!

Jonathan Davies off to Clermont. THey will potentially have him and Fofana in the centres with Sivivatu and Nalanga on the wings

And Trinh Duc at FH, allegedly.

Three things

Kiwi's and Ozzies will generally support anyone playing against the other (e.g. I support NZ and anyone playing Australia).
SA's generally support Southern Hemisphere against Northern Hemisphere.

I think the "I don't feel not-British thing" is very bizarre, English, Northern Irish, Scots and Welsh are all British. Full devolution for any of the smaller nations would lead to a very substantial economic decline, plus you'd have to take the euro sooner or later if you want to be in the EU.

Very much a double edged sword for French rugby all the "imports", as you look around the top sides all the key playmakers are non-French, very bad for the National side. I'll be at Stade Francias v Toulon is a few weeks, SA vs England/Australia/SA in all the key positions. As a spectator good use of €15 but questionable for the international game. Have a French mate who's pointed out the the talented young FH at Stade will now sit on the bench behind Moyne Steyn.

You can test the theory easily - let's ask: will AA be supporting the Ab's or England on Saturday?

... Because as a staunch English supporter I was and always will be happy to suppoet wales versus the oppo, as long as it's not england.

Kryton57 - Member
You can test the theory easily - let's ask: will AA be supporting the Ab's or England on Saturday?

On Saturday, I'll be fully behind both England and Ireland.

On Saturday, I'll be fully behind both England and Ireland.

#strangest

teamhurtmore - Member

Very true IJ

I doubt that any Welsh/Scot/Irish person cares whether you think of yourself as English or British

Yes, probably very true.

I doubt that any English person cares whether you think of yourself as Welsh or British

Arrogant *************. My nationality and heritage is important.

Oi, I'm from the oppressed nation here, stop trying to turn it around!! 😆

Who I support really depends on who is playing. I've even been known to support Llanelli! I quite like 'the cheaty, stampy, punchy', etc NZs so I'll be supporting them on Saturday. And will definitely be supporting Ireland - I can't stand Australia for some reason. No rational reasonal!

jambalaya - Member

Full devolution for any of the smaller nations would lead to a very substantial economic decline, plus you'd have to take the euro sooner or later if you want to be in the EU

Jambalaya, you are being led in the wrong direction by toys' confused vision of the UK. Feeling Welsh (or Scottish, Irish, Cornish, Geordie, Scouse....) doesn't automatically require devolution.

DD, behind you as well.

#dontpushback

Hmm, on the theme toys started... I hated the tory government's hammering of Scotland growing up in the 80's,which was the decade after the 1st indy vote(which the majority supported) but never translated that to the sporting teams. The slam at the end of the decade changed all that,the rugby was secondary to some serious bile and I look back at that game and all the crap surrounding it with no fond memories at all. I was living in London at the time and all of a sudden there was an edge to the games.The next year the person behind me sat burning my fancy berghaus jacket in half a dozen places for no reason other than the fact I was Scottish. Other guys in my club had beer thrown at them and abused way past the level of anything that could be called banter. This was returned in spades the following year at M'field and I think it was only after the pro game moved the posts so far that England were so much better the memory of the Murrayfield ambush is a distant wound. Despite anything that Toys would like to suggest,we don't hate the English any more than the English hate the Scots,indeed I was screaming for Engerland in 2003 as I loved the rugby they had played for the previous 18 months. The hype around that side didn't bother me because it was more than justified.
However fast forward 10 years and we have the crap that has already been spouted in the Times this week,fortress(with a small f) twickenham as reported in the Times this week anybody? And then things like the hissy fit after the Welsh played the ref better than you guys don't endear the current England management team to the rest of the home nations.Things like that reinforce the arrogant stereotype.But most of all I want NZ to win because I love the fact that everybody in that side has turned down lucrative overseas contracts to wear the fern during the prime of their careers.That's quite an anomoly in the modern game, and something that would be alien to a large number of players in Britain and blazers in the various "HQ's". You can slag how well the ALL-BLACKS confuse refs and remember 10yo spear tackles,but they are the best team in the world by a distance.
Is all that racist? I don't think so,the rest of these Islands are underdogs when we play England so I also think that has a lot to do with it,seeing the big team taken down. For me anyway I certainly don't transfer my dislike of all things RFU/Ashton and Tory to ordinary English people,and my feeling about English people is different to my BLACK,MURDEROUS thoughts about the rugby team,except when the play France; Auld Alliance my arse!

*
You can test the theory easily - let's ask: will AA be supporting the Ab's or England on Saturday?

England, but it makes me feel dirty.

Jambalaya, you are being led in the wrong direction by toys' confused vision of the UK. Feeling Welsh (or Scottish, Irish, Cornish, Geordie, Scouse....) doesn't automatically require devolution.

you said

That might be the difference there Toys. I'm Welsh. Never think of myself as British.

Wales is part of Britain, therefore you are currently British. If (as you clearly stated above) you do not want to be British, then devolution is the answer to your jingoism.

Duckman I will summarise what you just said thus:

bitterness

AA you have my hand darling.

Any chance we could drag this thread back to rugby? Or even to Darcy's boner?

Thanks.

It's not jingoism to feel British or not. It's just how you feel.

I've always thought it funny that the most British feeling of the communities of the union are the Irish ones. 🙂

Toys whilst you opinions on me are fine can we stick to rugby here. Please.

Ah, it's an interesting diversion O'Flashearty. I do find it interesting to hear folks' reasonings about which teams they support when it comes to the 6N and AIs.

No problem, I just wanted to address tinybits question. I too find it interesting, being of Irish extraction, married to Welsh girl, lived in Wales and now in Scotland, I like to explore what makes us up.

I just want to point out that if England win on saturday, it will be because of the extra support from all the Welsh, Irish and Scottish brethren who are screaming for us. 😆

True, DD, true.

For me, 6N is always Wales. And then I will support the team that would most benefit Wales if they won! 😈

AIs? Well, if Wales are playing, then it's obvious. Otherwise, any home nation against a SH side. I do, however, find myself supporting both Argentina and Japan as the 'underdog' side at times, notably when against Scotland for some reason.

Duckman I will summarise what you just said thus:

bitterness

I dream of the days when Argentina were the underdogs against Scotland.

Please. Dont.

Yes,you are, but you get the chance of revenge in Wales this year.

I'm not bitter,if you look back at all of my posts I never blame the ref when England lose. You guys gave as a square beating and a good lesson in how to play last 6N, I fully expect the same this time.

The only irrational reaction I have against any of the other home nations is a rel recent desire to see Scotland lose. This is despite my Scottish education and love of the country. Instead it comes down solely to listening to Andy Nicol on the Beeb. Partly he simply gets on my nerves but equally it's so funny to see his brilliant ability to see the positive despite Scotland being drubbed into the mud. We all have our biases, but sadly Nicol is a long way from the great Bill McClaren.

But at least that's better than watching TF1 hey jambalaya?!?

duckman - Member
For me anyway I certainly don't transfer my dislike of all things RFU/Ashton and Tory to ordinary English people,and my feeling about English people is different to my BLACK,MURDEROUS thoughts about the rugby team

Well said.

teamhurtmore - Member

The only irrational reaction I have against any of the other home nations is a rel recent desire to see Scotland lose. This is despite my Scottish education and love of the country. Instead it comes down solely to listening to Andy Nicol on the Beeb. Partly he simply gets on my nerves but equally it's so funny to see his brilliant ability to see the positive despite Scotland being drubbed into the mud. We all have our biases, but sadly Nicol is a long way from the great Bill McClaren.

Ahhh, there - look he said it!!!!!! 💡

Imagine Andy Nicol on a massive scale, with an English accent (in every sense of that word) every time England play, in print and on TV.

Said what IJ? I highlighted ANs ability to find the crumbs of comfort in the depths of despair as the main motivation to see Scotland in trouble. Its funny, very funny in fact. Oh plus he is dreadfully biased. Don't read too much into it other than that.

It's nothing to do with accent or even nationally. Its more the bllx he comes up with. I secretly want Scotland to win.

But I undertandng your frustrations. I recall rushing to the TV in the 80s to see an European football match only to find Dougie Donnelly presenting Hibs v Motherwell instead!!! 😉

😆

But I undertandng your frustrations. I recall rushing to the TV in the 80s to see an European football match only to find Dougie Donnelly presenting Hibs v Motherwell instead!!!

Sounds like my local pub, in [b]Exeter[/b], where the football match between two teams in the [b]north[/b] of England took precedence over the England Australia rugby game. 🙄

Crossed a line there Toys,now just keep that filthy mouth of yours off St Archie.

Well done gents some potentialy touchy subjects discussed with out any dummys being spat.

I will support the All Blacks (not Neath) on Saturday, apart from the spearing of BOD which I still dont understand, they are no worse that any other nation as far as dirtyness goes, what I love to see though is the simplicity of the game executed so well. The physical ability as well as the mental speed of thought that at the moment is leading the way. For such a tiny country to continually churn out such outstanding players is incredible.

Happy to see Argentina beaten any time but as with Flasheart always want the Japanese to do well.

Tuilagi could miss six nations according to Beeb. Same injury as Davies.

By the way, as to A_A being an expert, didn't I read on here that he's only about 26? Or did I make that up?

you made it up, wish I was about 26, 40 next year.... gulp.

For such a tiny country to continually churn out such outstanding players is incredible.

"Sean;why do NZ churn out such good rugby players?"
Fitzpatrick; "Ever been here in the winter? There is sod all else to do."

"Ever been here in the winter? There is sod all else to do

Same as loads of places, Wales is a great example 😉

Or is it that they do not play any other sport. Rugby is it.
I'm not sure what the welsh attitude to footy or teenage pregnancies was in the 60's,70's,and 80's but it seems to me that the Principality as a whole was concentrating on its rugby. From 1964 to 1989 there were 26 games between us and we only won 4 of them.

Crossed a line there Toys,now just keep that filthy mouth of yours off St Archie.

Duckie-its not an anti northern thing, its just that Devon is such a long way away from Newcastle or whoever it was playing. It seems like there is no excuse for the football matches of two teams wholly unrelated to the region to be more important to the Mount Radford pub dwellers than the rugby team of the nation..

Tuilagi out, and now Corbs in doubt also.

Oh no.... 😥

Kryton, you mean you had hope?

I always have hope. What I'm "oh no-ing" about is not being beaten - I could accept that - but the margin by which we are beaten and the excuses that'll be used after. "Well, we didnt have our first choice centres" and (already in Barnes Sky Sports rhetoric) "Corbesiero is key to stability in the pack"...

That means rolling in here Monday to hear the detractors giggling and pointing.

.

anagallis_arvensis - Member

By the way, as to A_A being an expert, didn't I read on here that he's only about 26? Or did I make that up?

you made it up, wish I was about 26, 40 next year.... gulp.

That makes far more sense!

I must have dreamt it.

I'm dreaming about you a_a! 😉 😆

I don't do excuses, we either win or we don't, if we do we are awesome, if we don't we are not awesome.

there is no try

😕