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Probably not helpful, guys.
The dealers told him he’d run up a £2k debt, he was shot scared and after a lot of deliberating I paid it off. He’s been under house arrest since with no phone.
This may or may not be helpful: I have loads of stoner mates - now in there 40s who have been smoking since school days. The concept of dealers is not as clearcut as people make out. In the media there are users and dealers but in reality there is loads of grey between. Kids start off with one who will get some of an older friend and end up giving it to their mates, it can pass through 4 or 5 people without any of them being 'dealers' and its often done on credit, drugs get handed over and money follows back.
This can escalate to pretty sizeable networks of people just helping each other out to get weed without anyone making or trying to make massive amounts of money. But that said larger amounts are sold for big discounts on the fractions of an ounce (16th or 8th) that are the typical 'deals'. Many of my mates have at times in the past been buying drugs by the ounce or multiple ounces but they are not gangsta style dealers, they are normal working people.
Selling drugs is possibly not that bad, racking up debt is pretty easy to do and maybe that is more of a problem. If you are going to be a drug dealer you need some basic financial planning skills.
The dealers told him he’d run up a £2k debt, he was shot scared and after a lot of deliberating I paid it off.
Obvs I haven't read the whole thread from months back, just to when it was restarted.
Just out of interest, how did you find out about the debt and who actually received the 2K payment?
I'd be questioning the 2k, you've not just extended his credit line have you?
Sounds shit mate I wish i could offer some meaningful advice.
Its seen as a gateway drug simply because it puts you in touch with the people who do sell the harder drugs, and who are involved in multiple levels of criminality.
Many however buy from someone who is similar to themselves. I used to buy from an old chap, he helped supply people with debilitating conditions. Prior to that it was from a musician, and prior a journalist. None of whom move in circles promoting criminality.
A gateway 😕 no more than anything I suppose. But I see the argument that it does indeed lead to other drugs, but again simply because they're easy to get, usually from the same source.
Most here drink, and encourage their friends and family to, but the truth is that itself has led many into destruction. Yet nobody likens it to smoking a joint.
Yes some will develop issues and might experience extreme mental health problems. But I cant agree that marijuana is the root cause, given there are no great degrees of that in the Netherlands, who have been smoking the stuff in gigantic quantities for decades. We it causing mass effects, there would be that evidence and there isnt.
Drugs, be that codeine or alcohol or marijuana are not the entire problem. I think that is having something to do.
No job, little future, remembering kids arent fully developed in their brain, and can see their present situation, and being that of the rest of their lives.
You've said having working with mature people has helped, and in employment he has direction.
Start a business and work with him. What is it you do ?.
As previously stated I spent a number of years homeless, and went through the Glasgow homeless units, picking up a number of friends along the way, all of whom are dead from overdoses. Johnny and his brother Casper - dead, big Jim, dead, his GF Andrea aged 19 died in Jims kitchen. Everyone else too, they're all dead, think im actually alone now. One of the squad is doing 25 but I dont think ill be seeing him again, and I think another also found work and direction.
I tried to tell to stick with weed, never go wrong with weed. Dead easy to say 'Why take anything' but for many theres nothing but monotony.
I'd also say this was down to me constantly trying to work, or do such to move forward, where as they to my knowledge did nothing. Sat about, got drunk, wasted. Did nothing.
I’ll admit that I haven’t read all of this but to the “cool” posters who were advising “chill and let him get on with it”, how did that work out hey?
Well what can you say ?. Nothing, but try to relate your own experiences in life in the hope it might help or gel or offer something not thought of or considered or overlooked.. Everyone is different, nobody knows for sure, but for example Im stil here out of a group of about 10, and I'd put that down to a job and a direction.
Sit down with nothing to do, any drug or alcohol will have a damaging effect. A mild drug like marijuana or alcohol along with work wont present a problem, as long as you dont do them together.
What direction to take. Again it sounds like he enjoys working, so you'll have to ensure theres always something to occupy his time, and there must be a reward in that, so for a job its a wage.but there also needs to be a reward in down time.
I'm fully aware we may have increased his credit, but not paying it would have meant the debt growing and the potential for harm. It was a terrible choice up have to make and I've told him that I can't do it again, if he gets in the shit again he can come and work for me in his spare time and earn the money. Plan is to pay him more than he'd make dealing so then dealing would seem like a fish not worth taking.
We've been told by the CCE team that if he goes missing at all, even late for sixth form then we need to report him as a missing person to the police and they'll be looking for him. Their presence and the meither gets will be another reason to go the easy route.
There's no guidance to this, which makes it all even more of a nightmare. We need to allow him to communicate with his friends but not dealers, and could do with being able to contact him and him contact us in case things go wrong. Ideally a phone with location. Maybe a dumb phone and a smart watch to use with strava beacon?
Any IT guys with knowledge of what could help would be really appreciated.
We all know it's only him that can decide and extract himself from this mess, but any help I can give him would be great.
It was a terrible choice up have to make and I’ve told him that I can’t do it again
You need to be really careful with this. If he gets it into his head that you'll bail him out every time then there's no deterrent. Whereas a couple of broken fingers might focus his mind.
A mate of mine had this years ago. His sister's (boyfriend / husband? not sure now whether they were married or not at the time) ran up a load of credit card debt that he couldn't pay back. Out of love for his sister, my mate (who relative to the rest of us at the time was loaded) paid it all off. The first thing the lad did was go "fantastic!" and max it out again.
We need to allow him to communicate with his friends but not dealers
Tricky when they could well be the same people.
Besides, first call he makes is to one of his friends, "grab us another phone would you? My dad's watching this one." I'm an IT type but I can't think of any technology that will stop his mates from passing him things. He doesn't even need a phone, just a second SIM card. If he treats it like Christopher Walken's watch in Pulp Fiction you'd never know.
Also, I very much doubt that if he's moving in circles where heavies can scare you into coughing up £2k in drugs money, their preferred method of obtaining an iPhone would be to pop into an Apple store with their own credit card.
At the end of the day he's not a child, if he so desired he could walk out and do as he pleases. I understand you are trying to do right by him but getting all Black Mirror on him isn't going to help in the long run, either seeding resentment or him going really wild when he eventually is off the leash making his own decisions. Plus, as already pointed out the only way you can be really sure where he is would be a bracelet.
Jonesyboy - you got a PM
😆
Ignore that smiley emoji god knows how I’ve posted that
I totally don't think this is the right thing to do (as Cougar implied further up the thread).
However, I can see you want to do the best you can for you lad so here is a technical solution to the tracking bit that would not mean your son has a smart phone; Pet Tracker
Once again I don't think this is a good idea and the connotations of you tracking a 'dumb animal' may cause even more problems that it solves (and obviously it can be easily taken off and left behind somewhere)
I am no guru on this stuff, but i thought i might pass on what a friend of mine did in a very similar position.
He worked out it was his sons friends?/relationships that were perpetuating the problem, he was also supporting the son in the family home and "laying" down the law to no avail. Anyway a friend of his had a business outside of Oban so he shipped the lad from Surrey upto Oban to work, the lad was quite happy to get away from his Dad.
The job was long hours and hard graft but other than beer there was no access to the relationships or old friends that were facilitating the drugs.
So dislocation can work, not sure if its possible for you but the armed forces also offer that opportunity.
My 16 yr old son was smoking it. Wouldn't listen to me, said his friend's parents were cool with it etc.
His friends parents weren't there in the back of the court when he got locked up for the weekend. Attracted police attention hanging about a local park smoking and when searched as well as the dope had a Swiss Army knife that was illegal because the blade locked. So a 16 yr old (adult in Scotland) with no previous convictions or dealings with the police was locked up for the weekend as part of the much trumpeted zero tolerance. Dope charge got dropped and a 16 yr old schoolboy with no income got fined £200.
So he now has a conviction which would bar him from some jobs. Upside 12 years on is that it was the last time he had any contact with the police. He has a decent job and turned out fine. Engaged to a lawyer ironically.
As far as going to the USA goes the wording has changed now. He would get in as he doesn't have a drugs conviction and the current wording refers to serious crimes or something like that.
A friend of mine from schooldays who I used to go bothying and hillwalking with has had a regular dope habit for years. Does little else now, retired and smokes dope. Not an advert for it.
My advice? I'd point out that whether or not booze and fags are more harmful dope is illegal and breaking the law can have long consequences. LOng term use does have health inplactions. If he is going to keep using don't do it in public places and don't be the mug carrying it for a group of friends.
I think a lot of recent posters have missed the posts from a few months and a couple of pages back where he was caught dealing coke. The thread's original subject title is out of date.
tbh if he's run up a 2k debt, doesn't sounds like he doing much dealing. And probly unlikely it's weed. Sounds like you've just paid off his coke habit.
Hopefully the scare will teach him a lesson that tick is a seriously bad idea.
ps if not, I'd suggest staying away from tick is message that needs to take priority over everything else here, btw.
That'll lead him potentially to some dark places more than anything else.
And again, I'd also suggest stop sticking the dealers into the polis. That'll also potentially get him and mibbe you a sore face.
So he now has a conviction which would bar him from some jobs.
I was under the impression that any dealings with the PF under 18 got wiped on your 18th birthday, I certainly had a run in at ~17 (though no further action was taken) and it's never held me back (in jobs that require disclosure and CTC checks).
I think a lot of recent posters have missed the posts from a few months and a couple of pages back where he was caught dealing coke.
Ah, yeah I missed that. Still doesn't change my point though, he doesn't need surveilance he needs actual help and only he can decide when he's ready for that.
I’d suggest staying away from tick is message that needs to take priority over everything else here, btw.
That’ll lead him potentially to some dark places more than anything else.
Absolutely this x2.
@jonesboy
I do not frequent here that often, but have just read this whole tread with great interest, emotions started from don't worry through to what a shitty situation.
You need to be really proud how you have handled the whole situation, some really tough decisions and looks like you are slowly slowly getting there.
Regardless of others comments, drug and even excessive alcohol use isn't to be taken lightly. I have seen everything from heroin deaths in the family, good school friend now with mental health issues through to the stoner at uni now earning 500k as a company CEO. It effects every person in a different ways. Your son definitely seems like he is at the start of a downhill cycle, you are doing very well to be actively tacking this - keep it up and keep encouraging him to make the good decisions and more importantly seeing the positive life outcomes of these.
BTW I have 2 young sons and this tread is one of my worst nightmares, I think I will try and stay in Singapore til they are 18! The death sentence here is a deterrent.
BTW I have 2 young sons and this tread is one of my worst nightmares, I think I will try and stay in Singapore til they are 18! The death sentence here is a deterrent.
You'd be surprised. The minimum sentence for being caught with any quantity of any drug (or even just having it in your bloodstream) in the Middle East was 4 years. That's the minimum.
Doesn't stop people doing it.
I think I'd rather raise my kids somewhere that has a vaguely sensible attitude to the criminalisation of drugs.
Sorry it's been a while guys. Update as of now. He got a place at sixth form doing Geology, Geog and Electronics. All good for the first week but then starts bunking off the second week, spent days on his own in the park sobbing, told us he's thought about suicide a number of times. (We've got a tracker app on both kids phones and they are not allowed phones and freedoms unless we know where they are at all times).
We got a dog from the dogs trust as he's been after a dog for years and she's been brilliant for him, but unfortunatley bit him a number of times, and his mother, started lunging at everyone. The dog's trust advised that she needed more socialisation and a home with other dogs. He was heartbroken for days, and brings photo's of her when he comes to stop here.
So he's really struggling with mental health, isolation, confidence (now there's a surpsrise after smoking so much weed!) so he's canned off the A Levels and applied to another local college for Animal Welfare course, and is looking forward to it. It's out of town and 3 days a week so will be easier for us to manage exposure to the dealers who linger around the local sixth form.
Bad news is that he seems to still have this instagram lifestyle want of smoking loads of weed, fancy cars, loads of spare cash. His dealer goes on lots of holidays apparently (hopefully a very long one soon with free accomodation).
We're trying our best to focus on the positives and have confiscated his stash. The previous £2k I paid off it transpires wasn't all for debt - about £1k to pay off debt, the rest he's smoked and got a stash. His logic being that if he buys from the dark web he won't need to associate with dealers, my worry is that it will inevitably lead to him dealing himself. I'm rationing the weed to a bit at the weekend, and maybe a bit in the week, to be smoked on our premises, and he's back in lockdown being dropped off and collected from college. He seems ok with this at the moment, and will be given slight freedoms when he starts sorting himself out.
He's agreed to more counselling and engaged with his drugs counseller, has had a GP appointment to treat his depression and will have counselling to help him with his low self esteem, anxiety, depression etc. Quit how much he'll engage with this I don't know.
Had a good day yesterday, he helped with jobs around the house, ate well, took him to visit my dad and his wife whilst we can. He's been offered some work for their company which is IT based installing and running fibre networks in the states - which he was interested in. My dad also goes to the public gallery to watch court cases and was telling the kids about a few and they were really keen on going to watch a few.
I get back and check his snapchat and he's owing someone else £90 - no way I'm paying this one off. I can provide work for him but no more bail outs. He's agreed to come and work with me on site around the country to pay off his debt to me give him a little cash.
I've still no idea if we're doing the right things, are deluded, it's all just so surreal. I'm fully aware how manipulative he can be and this could all be a bluff, but I'm hoping it's one step forwards, two back type of scenario. I've spent half of the last month furious with him and his continued drug mentality, the other half wanting to just hug him and drag him away from it all, Interspersed with breaking down in tears whilst picking him up from college a couple of times.
If anyone out there needs to lose weight quickly I can fully recommend a 17 year old son as the solution.
If anyone needs an app we use Find My Kid it's great, you can see where they are, set notifications for when they arrive at designated locations etc. Great now we also have a daughter travelling to sixth form college in Birmingham.
Have you ever considered whether trust issues are down to a lack of any being given? You trust your daughter so little you're lowjacking her as well?
I love smoking weed. My friends love smoking weed. I prefer my mates who smoke weed to the ones who drink and become knobs. It will be legal soon hopefully
Randy Marsh has it
Squirrelking the main aim of the app for my daughter is to know she's got safely to college, which she prefers to just dropping me a text to say she's there.
With our son as part of the Criminal child exploitation investigation and NRM we have been told we need to know where he is at all times and if we don't know we are to report him as a missing person immediately. It's all part of the safeguarding strategy put in place.
I'm quite happy for my daughter to bin the app after a while, but if she's already said it gives her reassurance as well as us. Plenty of parents here get their kids to send photos of taxis before they get in them, again if the technology exists I don't see it as an issue. There was a large child sex trafficking and exploitation issue 15 miles up the road for years which had probably instigated this locally.
Jonsey, i wouldn't have even responded to that one... let alone been so polite if i had.
I get why your son has it, you've explained it already. I just didn't see why you daughter needed one. That also sounds nothing like your opening gambit:
We’ve got a tracker app on both kids phones and they are not allowed phones and freedoms unless we know where they are at all times
That implies a complete lack of trust. That is not the same as checking someone got somewhere safely. Not allowing someone who is old enough to leave home more freedom than a pre-teen is pretty draconian and controlling. I get the your house your rules thing but that's just unhealthy.
squirrelking, let it go.
Jonesyboy, man I feel for you, it sounds like you're doing a sterling job under the circumstances. I hope your son finds his way out of this,
@jonesyboy You're in an unenviable position and I feel for you. In my nearly ten years as a care co-ordinator at a drug treatment service. I've seen multiple variations of similar stories and situations that you find yourself in. But when all's said and done at least you care about your son's welfare, believe me, that isn't always the case. At least you're not sending your kids out onto the street to deal drugs (yep, seen that happen a couple of times). And I'm not talking a tenner's worth of weed either.
There wasn't much news about County Lines whilst I was working in this area, because of various factors (large town with a well developed and mature drug market, meaning not much room for newcomers). But I've heard of quite a few tales about youngsters running up a drug debt being made to work it off by dealing. Sometimes in cuckooed houses, sometimes on the streets. If the police and associated agencies are now aware of your son, then that honestly isn't a bad thing. The police (despite what some people might say) are far more likely to try and help younger people steer a better course through life these days. Rather than look down upon them as an apprentice criminal.
The multiple agencies that are involved know that teenagers/young adults sometimes get in over their heads and can be preyed upon by those higher up the pyramid who only care about shifting product and their bottom line. And it also helps that they see you as someone who cares. As harsh as it seems, god forbid should something happens to your son. An uncaring family is far more unlikely to seek answers from the authorities. They should be making sure all their responsibilities to keep your son safe are in order. Which I know is far from comforting, but it's better than thinking that you're tackling this totally alone and the authorities are just one more thing to worry about. It's an incredibly difficult situation that you find yourself in. I can't say much more beyond wishing you luck.
Ok so here we go. Good news is he's clear of dealers, has come to the conclusion that smoking weed was turning him into a vegetable. It's amazing the difference, he's fun, articulate, back into biking, getting distinctions at college the whole flipping shebang. Even wanting a career in the forces... And he's not smoked weed in 6 weeks
In his own words shopping him to the police was the start of it. One of the dealers who's been pressuring kids to sell had been nicked with £20k cash to that's reinforced things.
My boy has now finished counseling with we are with you, the youth drug charity who have been fantastic. Social workers have closed the cases, national referral mechanism is now classed as low risk and should be closed soon also.
I've got my boy back!
Things that worked for him in his words were a couple of loving homes but with no in boundaries, being pulled by the police a number of times, realising that the next step at 18 would be a record. Bailing him out was the trickiest part, but he's working for me to pay back the debt which is doing him the world of good.
Thanks for all your support and advice, good and bad, I'm fully aware this could have gone either way rapidly. If anyone in there future needs to talk through stuff if they are in a similar situation I'd be delighted to chat, I can only say what has and hasn't worked in our situation.
Ace! We all love a good news story don't we?!
Thanks for the update. good news
Nice one, fingers crossed for a continued improvement.
Incredibly good news Jonesy.
Really pleased for your whole family.
I’ll admit that I haven’t read all of this but to the “cool” posters who were advising “chill and let him get on with it”, how did that work out hey?
I haven't read all of it either.
But my hippy parents encouraged it and I'm doing just fine 30 years on
Excellent news feller. Well done both of you.
😂😂😂😂😂 yep TAFKASTR with your myriad posts of all of your uber expensive lifestyle you really do seem to be living the proper hippy dream 🙄
Mint.
Glad to hear that you have a result
😂😂😂😂😂 yep TAFKASTR with your myriad posts of all of your uber expensive lifestyle you really do seem to be living the proper hippy dream 🙄
Where did I say I was living the hippy lifestyle? I bloody hate hippies
Good stuff, love a happy ending.
That's an absolutely fabulous update... Long may it continue.
I hope one day he can read this thread and see what you've gone through and were prepared to do for him, along with seeing how pleased we all are for both of you.
Super !
Well done to you all for finding a way through this, great news indeed.
I couldn't be more pleased for you! Thanks for a great start to my Friday.
I'm pleased for you and your boy.
Here's to a bright future!
Excellent news OP. You should be proud of both yourself and your boy.
Good to hear some good news OP.
🙂
I was almost too scared to open this thread this morning, but what a fantastic, uplifting read.
There but for the grace of god.....
I was almost too scared to open this thread this morning, but what a fantastic, uplifting read.
There but for the grace of god…..
This.
Really really pleased for you OP.
Got a tear in my eye, really have.
I was almost too scared to open this thread this morning, but what a fantastic, uplifting read.
There but for the grace of god…..
This.
Really really pleased for you OP.
Got a tear in my eye, really have.
Im going to do a me too to all of that. That really is just the best news. I knew the thread when it popped up and was a little worried about opening it
Great news 🙂
Great news, long may it continue. Best of luck for the future.
Gleaming news.
👍
🙂
That's awesome news. You must be proud of your son for taking responsibility for his actions and turning his life around. Sounds like every parents nightmare, good to see it has had a positive outcome.
Sounds like he got his shit together, good for him! Must have been bloody tough giving up right now mind...
Great news.
This is great news to start the weekend with. Really made up for you and your family 👊
fair play, good to hear.
I hope he eventually recognises how hard you've fought for him.
You've changed the entire trajectory of his life - that makes you the greatest of fathers.
It's got all dusty in the Jones households reading the comments, as for being the greatest parents, nope just incredibly stubborn. I've made plenty of mistakes parenting believe me!
I've got some really good friends who've been reliant on weed, and unfortunately none of them seem to be able to cope with the real world at all well. As for acid, a friend went to a party, a load of people took acid and someone ended up with their head caved in with a hammer. The attacker thought they were a Beatle.
As for getting kids to deal, that's crap and sucks.
Jonesy jnr seems adamant never to go down this road again. It has cost me another bike in there long run though 😉
Looking back at where we were through this thread has hit home. Christ he's come a long way!
Great news on the lad getting himself sorted (a big well done for sticking the course and allowing the time for it to get right).
Yep great news,possibly best I’ve heard so far this year after the vaccine being rolled out 🙂
It’s a tricky one for me. But this is the critical bit now :
the high strength super skunks raise your risk factors for psychosis etc, particularly in the vulnerable (young).
Time for open, honest discussion about weed
So from experience it becomes like Russian Roulette...
•Friend#1 hung him self (30yrs ago) when just 20, due to episodes of paranoia. At that point in time I hadn’t linked the mental health issues with his cannabis use.
•Friend#2 teenage son ended up sectioned and not permitted to have contact with family due to risk to them and/or himself. He has improved now but is permanently medicated as a result.
•ex-Boss’s 21yr old son was undergoing treatment for paranoia but local services were unable to find a safe bed for him overnight (he was in his Uni town). He jumped from Clifton Suspension Bridge.
That’s too many people “lost to cannabis” in my relatively small circle of friends.
A bike down the line is a small price to pay.
I honestly did realise how it can affect people. It obviously does different things to different people (as do a lot of thing) but the unregulated aspect make it very dangerous. And no, I'm not necessarily saying it needs to be legal. This part of the argument is probably why it is still in the illegal phase. I wouldn't want to make that call.
Edit: have now read the full thread, I hadn’t appreciated that you’ve had this going on for twelve months.
Great to read that your lad has ‘evolved’
Congratulations to you!