[Closed] 12yr old boy arrested for sending racist messages to Wilfred Zaha

Racism does not evolve in a vacuum, id be questioning the parents

And people say we don’t have a problem

Do they? Really? Certainly nowhere near as bad as Ameristan, but it’s there, still; as shown by the episode involving the two Black athletes in the car recently.

I know there's no logical explanation to this but....

How do football fan racists reconcile the fact that their own teams have black players in them (Aston Villa seem to have about 50/50 black and white)?

It's bizarre!

Holy shit. That is just mind blowing. How TF does a kid even begin to think like that?

Parents... friends... I’d be questioning the lot.

The whole thing raises so so many issues. 🙁

Maybe the best thing to come out of this being so publicised will be that kids (and those adults who partake in such behaviour) will realise that they can't hide behind social media when spouting their moronic views. They say shit online and they'll be found and prosecuted. Maybe.

How do football fan racists reconcile the fact that their own teams have black players in them

It's because they're the good kind of black people, they're exceptions, it's everyone else that's the problem. Especially every other black player in different teams.

Arresting a 12 yr old is crazy and lazy. They’re obviously just copying parental approved behaviour. A desire to show instant action is no excuse for criminalising a child who’s been let down in their education at home - the cops should have dug around and found a reason to arrest the parents.

Arresting a 12 yr old is crazy and lazy. the cops should have dug around and found a reason to arrest the parents.

Why not both?

He's above the age of criminal responsibility, and has been treated that way. He may be a lost cause because of his parents, but it's possible that the shock of being hauled down to the station will be a wake-up call for him.

Or he could just be a 12 year old saying racist shit because his brain is still 12+ years off maturing, it's taboo (which makes it attractive to dumb rebellious kids), he could have been showing off to his mates etc. etc..

Myriad reasons - his parents might not even have an inkling.

You'd hope the po-po showing up would have been the shock of his life but it would be a crying shame if criminal charges were pressed rather than councelling/education (which is how we're supposed to treat children after all - *teach* them).

I think about twenty seconds to find the parents online footprint will figure out whether it's learned behaviour.

Sometimes the state has to do a bit of parenting, and the police (as well as social workers, teachers and others) can't always just work through the parents, they sometimes have to act directly.

Not quite the same, but whenever some random driver hurls abuse at me for cycling on a road in Cambridge, I look at the kids in the car with him and think - there is another whole generation of kids being brought up to hate cyclists without ever asking why...

Kids are stupid, that's why we don't let them vote.

He shouldn't have been arrested, it just goes to 'prove' to him all the right-wing propaganda about White discrimination is right. He needs a social worker, not a night in the cells.

Personally, after hearing the sort of vile stuff 'Nice Boys, from Nice Families' say to strangers when they're online gaming I'd say it's 'just' impotent rage rather than deep seated racism, but either way, he need education not punishment.

Probably some chat channel he picked it up from. No, I'm not that guy, I know fine and well how many sexist/racist/transphobic/whatever content gets flung about.

Not surprised in the slightest tbh, folk were coming away with similar shite when I was that age and it was just as unacceptable then.

I think both perspectives are right on this. Arresting someone is a very powerful thing, back in the day I found myself on the wrong side of a cell door and it shook me up. (just teenage stupidity that had bureaucratic events not unfolded the way they had I'd have been given a telling off but I digress). On the other hand it would be quite fun to plonk him down in front of the victim and challenge him to say it to his face. That's where you decide whether social intervention is needed or that he's just a little gobshite getting off on saying stuff he knows he shouldn't and doesn't believe anyway.

whenever some random driver hurls abuse at me for cycling on a road in Cambridge, I look at the kids in the car with him

And I shout "I hope you don't kiss your kids with that foul mouth" and leave them to do the explaining to their kids

My 12yr old has spent the past week building a rope swing over the stream and a den in the woods with her mates. She is currently raking stinging nettles to create new path from the field the stream. Last night she headed back out at 8pm with cheese to leave out for the field mouse / vole that they had seen (needs to work on her animal recognition skills).

How another 12 year old can be in a place where he does this is just off the scale nuts.

Kids are stupid

No, just inexperienced, sometimes feral but never stupid.

Imagine if a 12 year old boy went up to a footballer in the street and started spouting racist bollocks. They wouldn't have the guts for one thing, but would it make every news channel in the country, including STW?? Social media gets so much weight and importance put on it. It's just a stupid 12 year old kid. Probably with mental or home life problems.
Footballers all do the Black Lives Matter kneel thing before every game, so more and more people are getting the picture that racism is wrong. One 12 year old boy with a keyboard isn't the end of the ****ing world.

but would it make every news channel in the country, including STW??

If someone had captured it as a video, yes.

My 12yr old has spent the past week building a rope swing over the stream and a den in the woods with her mates. She is currently raking stinging nettles to create new path from the field the stream. Last night she headed back out at 8pm with cheese to leave out for the field mouse / vole that they had seen (needs to work on her animal recognition skills).

How another 12 year old can be in a place where he does this is just off the scale nuts.

Many kids don't have a stream and woods nearby, or any rope or cheese for that matter. You kids sounds lucky and is probably in the minority.

If someone had captured it as a video, yes

And what? just kept it on their phone... or shared it on...??

I've got no problem with a 12 year old being arrested for breaking the law.

How they are subsequently treated investigated punished/helped is a different matter. And the investigation needs to focus on parents and other influences

Feel bad for the kid tbh. He's going to be in a world of shit.

Social media should have controls, I dont think a 12 year old should be on it. & anonymity should end.

My 12yr old has spent the past week building a rope swing over the stream and a den in the woods with her mates. She is currently raking stinging nettles to create new path from the field the stream. Last night she headed back out at 8pm with cheese to leave out for the field mouse / vole that they had seen (needs to work on her animal recognition skills).

Raking nettles! Destroying wildlife habitat! Shocking behaviour.

I'll tell you how this goes.
The Police will most likely want him up in court, where he'll probably be referred to the Youth offending Service for rehabilitation and restorative intervention on a court order. That support is totally dependent on the area he lives in, but is usually up and running relatively quickly (by quickly, I'm talking weeks, not months).
The police will almost certainly refer the family to Social Services, who will immediately bat it off to Early Help services, who will send a family support worker/intervention worker (they have many names) to do an assessment.
If, as a result of their assessment, they feel that a Social Worker is needed, they will attempt to "step-up" the case back to social services, who will do their best to resist it. This argument can go on for months, but unless there are significant safeguarding concerns, Social Services will usually win and Early Help will be left to deal with the family.
This help can take many forms. They might just leave it to Youth Offending to sort it out. They might put the kid and/or parents in a couple of groups for anger management/parenting classes.
They might allocate a youth worker to work one to one with the kid. They might allocate a family support worker with the family for a short or long term piece of work. They might do a mixture of any or all of the above.
Most of this work has a pretty significant waiting list. I've known kids that have done worse wait over a year for Early Help intervention.
The one thing that's pretty certain is that he's in for a lot more than the old bill putting the wind up him.

or shared it on…??

Local newspaper website first, then escalated up to the nationals, that’s one common way.

This isn’t a social media problem in isolation, but that the harassment happened on social media does make the identification and reporting much easier (and more likely). If he had done it in a non-digital way that was as easy to identify, it would still be as big a news story, and involved the police (say, vandalising the footballer’s home or car with racist abuse and getting caught red handed).

Given what's been happening recently this is probably the right thing to be doing. It doesn't matter how old he is - he needs to learn about the consequences and implications of his actions. Sure, there will be a different process than perhaps an adult will have been through, but it is something that cannot and should not be ignored. I would hope there is a bigger picture going on here. For example, letting it be known that he is 12 years old. Given that most social media platforms expect you to be at least 13 this might also be trying to send a more subtle notice to parents who don't seem to think it a problem letting their under age kids get on social media. And also, perhaps, to make parents think a bit more about what their kids might be up to online.

Social media should have controls, I dont think a 12 year old should be on it.

He shouldn't be on it, Facebook at least has a minimum age of 13 and most other platforms are likely similar. But then we're back to parenting again.

It's possible that the parents simply don't care; hell, they might even be quietly proud of their chip off the old racist block. But we live in a brave new world and a lot of parents simply didn't grow up with this stuff. They don't know what it is, they don't know what it does and they don't have the first clue how to police it.

But the medium isn't really the problem, or at least, it's not causal. It just amplifies it (and also it's a convenient scapegoat in lieu of actually taking responsibility for your kids). By that logic we might as well argue that kids should be segregated in the playground until they hit puberty. Keeping them off social media won't stop them from doing something stupid, rather when they do something stupid it (mostly) prevents the entire world from seeing it.

If he had done it in a non-digital way that was as easy to identify, it would still be as big a news story, and involved the police (say, vandalising the footballer’s home or car with racist abuse and getting caught red handed)

My point is, this wouldn't have happened.
Anyway, I stand by my first post on this. Hopefully it'll make some moronic ****s think (if they're capable) first before posting.

fin25
Member
I’ll tell you how this goes.

Sounds like we're in the same line of work!

they feel that a Social Worker is needed, they will attempt to “step-up” the case back to social services, who will do their best to resist it

Because unless the kid is at imminent risk of death, given current funding and resourcing issues, this isn't even a blip on their radar.

Exactly

I'm slightly worried fin25 is my wife.....