[Closed] 1 in 20 Britons believe the holocaust never happened.

its the guardian so it must be true...

Or, 1 in 20 Britons in the lowest 5% for intellegence.

Of course it's a lot more complex than that in reality, but sometimes it's good to remember that, just as there are plenty of clever people out there, there are also plenty of stupid people.

In other news one in twenty Britons is an arsehole.

If you want to get a real flavour of how ignorant - or stupid - Britain has become, listen to Akala discuss Brexit at 36 mins in:

Hardly surprising.

Conspiracy theorists, idolisation of moronic celebs and post truth politics. It all adds up.

The important quote further down the page

Olivia Marks-Woldman, of the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust, said: “I must stress that I don’t think [the poll respondents] are active Holocaust deniers – people who deliberately propagate and disseminate vile distortions. But their ignorance means they are susceptible to myths and distortions.” The Holocaust is taught in schools as part of the history curriculum, but “that might only be one lesson”, she added. “And people who are middle-aged or over may never have been taught about it.”

That poll found that one in three people knew little or nothing about the Holocaust, and an average of 5% said they had never heard of it. In France, 20% of those aged 18-34 said they had never heard of the Holocaust; in Austria, the figure was 12%. A survey in the US last year found that 9% of millennials said they had not heard, or did not think they had heard, of the Holocaust.

Time changes the importance of things we are taught about or how it is retained, for some of these people they may have had minimal history education and not really studied it much, they may know something but not much about it. For many people they have lost a direct reference to that time, when I grew up my grandparents generation lived through the war and the events surrounding it. There area a lot less of those people around these days.

I think they don't teach modern history the way the used to in the 70s/80s, so young people are not as aware of WW1 and WW2

I must admit I thought I was pretty well informed having watched plenty of stuff on the history channels over the years. I did find a lot of my preconceptions were challenged when I visited Auschwitz a couple of years ago. Interestingly I also found myself significantly questioning the way the Holocaust is taught. Basically I'm not surprised at this article but it's a complicated issue.

My lad is 14 and is studying ww1, ww2 and Vietnam in some detail. The research is shocking, but so is that headline, no better than the Daily Fail frankly.

Who is Amala, and why would his opinion on Brexit carry any more weight than some loudmouth in the local boozer?

Theory 1. When asked questions in a survey many people give the silliest or most controversial answer. It's a very British thing to do.

Theory 2. Every time an organisation commissions a survey, that survey always returns results guaranteed to either get publicity for said organisation, or to back up the views of said organisation.

Call me cynical if you like, but these surveys are generally skewed to fit a specific agenda. That said, I do have some level of agreement with the "never heard of it" point of view as the general public's ignorance of history is dreadful. There are a lot of thick people out there (hence Brexit).

However of the people who have heard of it I don't believe for one minute that 5% don't think it ever actually happened. Basically I am a holocaust denier denier.

I sometimes do tours in Mauthausen, Austria. I bring people from Danube cruises on buses round the camp. It's a real eye opener as to how many people have absolutely no idea what went on in these camps.
I can't do many tours a month as it suck up a lot of energy.

Just to say whilst I think the headline is awful I do agree with the sentiments of the article, which is that a better level of education and understanding is needed, both about the holocaust and how the nazis rose to power generally.

In other news one in twenty Britons is an arsehole.

Your figures are way out. It's at least one in two.

a better level of education and understanding is needed, both about the holocaust and how the nazis rose to power generally.

It is, along with more in depth analysis of NI and the origins of the sectarian violence. The history of the US/USSR proxy wars in Afghanistan etc, middle eastern politics and history and the role with west has played in those areas.

There is a lot of history to teach these days.

I think they don’t teach modern history the way the used to in the 70s/80s, so young people are not as aware of WW1 and WW2

My daughters have both learnt about WWI and WWII the eldest in a lot more detail then I was taught.

Who is Amala, and why would his opinion on Brexit carry any more weight than some loudmouth in the local boozer?

He's a very erudite and thoughtful activist
Don't always agree 100% with him, but would much rather he had a platform than Gaz from Maidstone

Who is Amala... ....than some loudmouth in the local boozer?

edit: beaten to it by SoY. Its of interest to me that CZ perhaps fell for the very image related conclusion that Akala often discusses at length.

I'm with drac and timbog - don't drag teaching of "youth of today" into this.

Eldest just finished history gcse and it was impressively thorough. Very heavy on remembering facts across a wide range of events, but also a big emphasis (half the exam marks) on understanding the context and implications, what happened as a result etc.

I’m with drac and timbog – don’t drag teaching of “youth of today” into this.

I agree, every school I've worked in has covered WWII in detail including the Holocaust.

In fact, there is so much about WWII in the history curriculum that I've heard people referring to the 'nazification' of history teaching!

I’m with drac and timbog – don’t drag teaching of “youth of today” into this.

It raises the question about who should be teaching our kids and what they should be learning. School teachers are vital to our kids development however as a parent I feel that perhaps some responsibility should rest with me with regards to informing my own children about how humanity can inflict the most heinous atrocity upon itself within living memory.

Saying that our children don't know about the Holocaust because they are not being told about it at school is lazy IMO.

Questioning the standard of secondary education is a red herring and an easy target. Slack jr is in his final gcse year and the history curriculum is as detailed as I remember it from the ‘70’s.

The relevant questions to be asked in response to the sensationalised headline are, how many people were questioned? What demographic ranges were they?

There is a lot of history to teach these days.

😂😂😂 Classic. About 40 more years than when I learnt it and in terms of humankind, 2.5 million years is 2.5 million years!

I used to work with a guy who said "did the Holocaust really happen though? After all, there's no real evidence" cue half an hour of me calling him a ****ing moron. This guy wasn't a kid, he'll now be in his late forties/early fifties.
I think people underestimate how monumentally stupid some people are, flat earthers......

Classic. About 40 more years than when I learnt it

Whoosh

That poll found that one in three people knew little or nothing about the Holocaust, and an average of 5% said they had never heard of it.

So thats 1 in 20. If you've not heard of it you couldn't say you believe or not believe.
Certainly here in Wales the Holocaust is covered in great detail in school. Both of mine have a full knowledge of events, I'm not sure how much more schools could do.

😂😂😂 Classic. About 40 more years than when I learnt it and in terms of humankind, 2.5 million years is 2.5 million years!

Well given our current NI Sec doesn't understand the reasons behind the tensions out there, that is a key bit of history not being covered from the last 40 years. The end of the cold war and the changing face of Europe along with the middle east would put the current world in a lot of context for young people.

Somewhat less than the percentage of Europeans who know little or nothing about it:

https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2018-11/cnn-studie-holocaust-antisemitismus-deutsche-geschichte-wissen-bildung

95% of the pop UK population believe in the Holocaust. That seems quite high. More would be better but it's never going to be 100%.

Compared to 38% of Americans think humans were put on earth in their current form in the last 10000

Or 91.2% have had the MMR jab by the age of 2. That will never be 100% as some can't have it. So they rely on the need protection, which we are losing

In other news one in twenty Britons is an arsehole.

****ing hell that's generous. theres always 2 things that bother me in the reporting of the holocaust, that it was perpetrated by "nazi's" and the victims were jewish. It was perpetrated mostly by germans and their allies though the majority of the victims were jewish 5 million "undesirables" were also slaughtered starved to death and gassed.

I agree, every school I’ve worked in has covered WWII in detail including the Holocaust.

We never covered it in History at school (80s), it was all Elizabethan stuff, Spanish Armarda, Hency VIII's wives. Didn't touch on WWI or II at all.

Learnt more from watching The World At War, then visiting Auschwitz and the reading Primo Levi's books (did the last two in the wrong order though).

I think they don’t teach modern history the way the used to in the 70s/80s, so young people are not as aware of WW1 and WW2

Nah, I think it’s the other way around. When I was in high school 88-95 it wasn’t taught. We did The Romans, Tudors and Stone Age stuff etc. I guess it was thought that it was recent enough not to need teaching. My Son learnt about it in year 6 onwards.

In other news one in twenty Britons is an arsehole.

A fairer evaluation would be that about 5% of Britons are unaware of something that happened 70+ years ago. There’s no smoking gun here.

I would imagine the figure would be higher in most other countries, not because they’re all horrible anti-semites, but we put more onus on the world wars than most other western countries.

Exactly P-Jay

A trip around the Australian War Museum was a massive eye opener to parts of WW1/WW2 and Vietnam that I wasn't really aware of, whole events and pivotal moments I would have not been able to reference before I saw it there.

I can understand why people want to keep it front and centre in the minds of people but at times that is done at the expense of other very important moments in history (particularly the ones that are not so flattering to the UK)

Agree with footflaps, although I had a passion for learning about ww1 and ww2 as a kid that has continued to today, I didn’t learn any at school at all, started school in ‘81.
I can’t help but think the questions are going to practically guarantee a negative headline, that was of course the purpose.
However, it wouldn’t be at all surprising to learn that the knowledge was literally dying out. I’ve spoken to many ww2 soldiers, airman, merchant navy, and a few German ones as well (I used to fly with a ME110 pilot who was shot down the Battle of Britain), I guarantee that my children will never be able to do this, hence it will become less likely that people will ‘hear’ about it.

Sad but true. 95% believe, and 5% are a mixture of conspiracy theorists, ***ktards or right-wing racists looking to rewrite history

I can understand why people want to keep it front and centre in the minds of people but at times that is done at the expense of other very important moments in history (particularly the ones that are not so flattering to the UK)

I agree. My kids seem to be taught about the Holocaust endlessly, and always in terms of 6m Jewish dead. Never a mention about the many millions of others killed. I’ve had quite a few chats with my 15 yr old about it. I recently mentioned the battle of Cable Street when we were talking about the rise of fascism. She was completely shocked when I showed her a YouTube clip, demanding to know why it’s not talked about in school. I wonder why? For the same reasons as the history of British imperialism isn’t taught, I’d guess.

timbog160
Just to say whilst I think the headline is awful I do agree with the sentiments of the article, which is that a better level of education and understanding is needed, both about the holocaust and how the nazis rose to power generally.

I'd rather they'd teach how a decent and civilised people can be manoeuvred into supporting a govt that does that, and how it is too late once you're there.

If you look at the eugenics pogrom going on the UK against the weak and vulnerable, we're almost there. We've even got neo-concentration camps for immigrants. And yet most people in this country are decent and civilised.

An uncle of mine was an ambulance driver during ww2.He was with the Americans when they got to one of the eastern Europeans concentration camps. He said the bodies were piled up like terraced houses ☹️. We didn't cover it at school in the 80s. Really should have though. It needs to be. People can learn from other peoples mistakes.

Sad but true. 95% believe, and 5% are a mixture of conspiracy theorists, ***ktards or right-wing racists looking to rewrite history

Nope. 95% are aware of it, 5% are not.

If it wasn’t for the inflammatory headline, most people presented with the facts would consider it as close to ‘everyone’ as to make no difference.

Consider also that 2.5% of the population have learning difficulties.

Studies suggest that 7%-9% of the UK are functionally illiterate.

Also consider that your real hard core right-wing denier might be a member of the BNP, but even at their height in 2008 (before the likes of UKIP and EDF offered a more mainstream alternative) their membership was around 12k - or about 0.01 of the population.

People can learn from other peoples mistakes

Yes, maybe start with something close to home like a million dead Irish?

I wonder how much of this has to do with being able to filter out news that you don’t want to hear?
Sachenshausen is one of the grimmest places i have ever visited. Whilst it wasn’t a death camp, many died there ... and the Soviet’s kept it going until the mid 50s.

I heard reported somewhere (and have no proof per se) that 60% of Austrians still believe Adolf was a good leader.
And Munich has a very right wing agenda not far under the surface.
5% in the Uk doesn’t surprise me ... but I I would guess 20% also can’t tell you who fought on which side in WW 2

I'd be interested to see how the poll was worded and the sample group.

I'd imagine the real figure is significantly lower.

JP

I’d rather they’d teach how a decent and civilised people can be manoeuvred into supporting a govt that does that, and how it is too late once you’re there.

Well I think they're currently getting a first hand education on how manipulative politicians and governments can be.

Who is Akala, and why would his opinion on Brexit carry any more weight than some loudmouth in the local boozer?

Because he's running the local cub pack?

Nope. 95% are aware of it, 5% are not.

If it wasn’t for the inflammatory headline, most people presented with the facts would consider it as close to ‘everyone’ as to make no difference.

Consider also that 2.5% of the population have learning difficulties.

Studies suggest that 7%-9% of the UK are functionally illiterate.

Also consider that your real hard core right-wing denier might be a member of the BNP, but even at their height in 2008 (before the likes of UKIP and EDF offered a more mainstream alternative) their membership was around 12k – or about 0.01 of the population.

This. (And thanks for posting, I shall be copying and pasting onto FB.) I googled and found 10pc have learning difficulties. 850,000 have Dementia.

I’d be interested to see how the poll was worded and the sample group.
I’d imagine the real figure is significantly lower.

Also this.

Given no two historians can agree on the year WW2 started I suspect you could create a similar clickbait headline with the start date for WW2. (I would argue 7 July 1937.)

we’re almost there

Not really the thread to try to downplay the unimaginable scale of the horror and tragedy visited on the World by Nazi Germany....

The Powerkite twins went to the Menin Gate with their school to watch the going doown of the sun thingy and trumpter so they were deffo taught about modern history although I think they spent alot of time of the history of the Kings and QUeeens of Engerland as well

outofbreath
Not really the thread to try to downplay the unimaginable scale of the horror...

eh? Did you not understand the post?

Simpler words: "let's make sure we don't end up doing the same"

Yes, maybe start with something close to home like a million dead Irish?

I don't think we would even get close to 95% knowing much about the Irish Famine, the Partition of India or other major points in history including a few mass slaughters by the British army and colonisers.

These are the inconvenient bits of history we try and brush under the carpet for an easier life. You could probably do an entire GCSE on the ways one group has tried to purge another from existence.

Been 'discussing' brexit with randon free tommy/yellow vest/'#wtonow' types on twitter there are some some people who seem to believe absolutely anything

several times Ive had twitter threads dissapear down conspiracy theory rabbit holes; con trails, vaccines, Israel secretly running the EU which is why we can never leave!

Its not just that there are huge gaps in peoples education its that its pretty easy to get sucked in by complete BS on the internet, especially when youve been softened up by decades of irresponsible & divisive press

I haven’t read the whole thread but I’ve just come back from Berlin and a walk around the topography of terrors. It should be compulsory education.

BBC2 now. It's riveting, but really upsetting.

we’re almost there

Not really the thread to try to downplay the unimaginable scale of the horror…

eh? Did you not understand the post?

I think I understood it. You were comparing a liberal 21stC democracy with no credible Imperial ambitions [1] and a vanishingly small armed services with a militaristic imperialist Facist Regeme (that only existed because of the starvation and misery of WW1 and the extreme economic and non-economic humiliation that followed it) that killed tens of millions and planned to kill tens of millions more and concluding the later was "nearly" the same as us.

If by "nearly there" you meant, "galaxies apart" then I'd agree, but I'm pretty sure you meant 'nearly there', hence I'm saying you were downplaying what the Nazi Germany did. Which is fine, I'm a liberal, I respect your right to claim that, but I also have a right to call you out and say they were *really* *really* bad. Google the 'hunger plan'. Have a look at what happened the children of Lidice. (...and everyone else there.)

[1] We can quibble about Iraq, Afganistan & Libya, but we were bit players there and don't have the capacity to do that off our own bat. Moreover, we've learned our lessons there, and if you want to call that Imperialism far from getting a taste for it it was a disaster and we've all decided to do a lot less of it.

These are the inconvenient bits of history we try and brush under the carpet

I'd never seen that quote before, thanks. It's pretty good point. Perhaps in addition to remembering the crimes our enemies committed we should have a national day remembering crimes we have committed.

...and if we want to focus on the crimes our Enemies committed we shouldn't really forget Japan. We spend a lot of time considering what they did to our POWs but what they did to Chinese non-combatants was far, far worse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre ...and although I haven't got numbers I'm pretty sure that denial of Japanese atrocities in Japan in far more common than denial of Axis Continental European atrocities in the UK.

Dan Carlin covered it recently: https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-63-supernova-in-the-east-ii/

Perhaps in addition to remembering the crimes our enemies committed we should have a national day remembering crimes we have committed.

A day for this and a day for that is not what is needed, that is the sort of thing that gets people to think about it for 10 mins and forget about it.

This is what people need to learn about what built this nation, how we ended up rich, who we trampled to get here. It's never a competition about how many or who was worse it's about looking at all of history.

its pretty easy to get sucked in by complete BS on the internet

On the other hand it's never been easier to fact check stuff we hear.

(that only existed because of the starvation and misery of WW1 and the extreme economic and non-economic humiliation that followed it

Or was it? Britian is currently heading that way without being pushed by anyone and plenty of fascists get into power without starvation and misery. I'm not convinced with the Versaille treaty being entirely responsible for the rise of the Nazis.

A day for this and a day for that is not what is needed,

True, I got a bit carried away.

If you want to get a real flavour of how ignorant – or stupid – Britain has become, listen to Akala discuss Brexit at 36 mins in:

Is it because he's black and has a London accent?

Because, in a roundabout way his points were completely valid - the Brexit campaigned blamed Britain's ills on immigration and the EU when we really should have been looking closer to home.

P.S. He isn't the defining example of how stupid Britain is - white trash from up North are.

Is it because he’s black and has a London accent?

OK, could be a fair pint

P.S. He isn’t the defining example of how stupid Britain is – white trash from up North are.

Nope he blew it within seconds

…and if we want to focus on the crimes our Enemies committed we shouldn’t really forget Japan. We spend a lot of time considering what they did to our POWs but what they did to Chinese non-combatants was far, far worse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre …and although I haven’t got numbers I’m pretty sure that denial of Japanese atrocities in Japan in far more common than denial of Axis Continental European atrocities in the UK.

I'm currently reading Hirohitos War - the west did a mighty fine ****ing job in Asia between the 18th and 20th century (from the destruction of China as a power, Indochina, British colonialism and American involvement in the Philippines) to create the conditions whereby Japan feel that it needed to go to war.

If you want to discuss Japanese atrocities, which were much more your typical war type battlefield atrocities as opposed to the ideological driven systematic destruction of a race - then you have to talk about what the West did to put them on a war footing in the first place. Where as the holocaust requires a good background on the centuries of antisemitism that preceded it.

Or was it? Britian is currently heading that way without being pushed by anyone and plenty of fascists get into power without starvation and misery.

I'm struggling to think of anywhere that has gone from Democracy to Fascism without some pretty extreme circumstances. Care to suggest some places? Russia, maybe. But was it really a true democracy to start with?

Care to give some examples of the UK becoming a fascist state? Who's the charismatic leader with a private army who's going to take over? Corbyn? Really? Where are we going to invade and who are we going to kill when we get there? Does fascism work without control of the media? What military power do we have? Are we building up a stronger police force, or is our police force completely impotent? How can you even begin to control the global media in the internet world. If the UK press start to lie to us it get exposed immediately. (As the article that prompted this thread - half a day on a cycling forum and the headline has been shown to be completely misleading.)

I’m not convinced with the Versaille treaty being entirely responsible for the rise of the Nazis.

Nor me. I think it was mainly starvation and communism. Britain had been blockading them throughout WW1 and, much of Europe, in addition to Germany was literally starving long after WW1. I think when your kids are starving you get a bit emotive and start to look around for groups to blame. Maybe the Jews are a bit wealthier, getting more food or perceived to be getting more food. (Apparently there were towns with big Jewish populations on some rivers, if the food didn't make it as far as them, people stated blaming Jews for grabbing it before them.) I'm convinced that was the root cause of a lot of the real hatred. Then the communists were doing really well. I think the support the Nazis the was was as much anti-communism as pro-Nazism. Then the Nazis were *really* good at PR. But yeah, I agree that Versaille wasn't such a big deal and the terms where far better than the Germans gave Russia in Brest-Litovsk.

If you want to discuss Japanese atrocities, which were much more your typical war type battlefield atrocities

Hmmmmmm.

then you have to talk about what the West did to put them on a war footing in the first place.

I'd agree. I'd think for many Japaese people Commodore Perry started WW2 in the 1850s.

Nor me. I think it was mainly starvation and communism. Britain had been blockading them throughout WW1 and, much of Europe, in addition to Germany was literally starving long after WW1. I think when your kids are starving you get a bit emotive and start to look around for groups to blame. Maybe the Jews are a bit wealthier, getting more food or perceived to be getting more food. (Apparently there were towns with big Jewish populations on some rivers, if the food didn’t make it as far as them, people stated blaming Jews for grabbing it before them.) I’m convinced that was the root cause of a lot of the real hatred. Then the communists were doing really well. I think the support the Nazis the was was as much anti-communism as pro-Nazism. Then the Nazis were *really* good at PR. But yeah, I agree that Versaille wasn’t such a big deal and the terms where far better than the Germans gave Russia in Brest-Litovsk.

It's way, way more complicated than that - read some Ian Kershaw. Historical antisemitism and German romanticism played a huge part in why the holocaust occurred.

The communists were polling around 20% IIRC and it was outlawing the communists that gave the Nazis the majority.

The lies and propaganda that lead to the Brexit vote are straight out of the Nazi propaganda model. Brits are being led down a dangerous path my media manipulation, lies, and manipulative politicians in just the same way as Germans were led cheering into National Socialism.

Hmmmmmm.

Well, they were anything but typical - but think Mai Lai on a grander scale.

It’s way, way more complicated than that

Of course, I'm banging out a post just before bedtime. You could equally make a case that WW2 was mainly about oil. But I was agreeing with whoever said you can't blame it all on

read some Ian Kershaw

I'd agree he's the man on this topic, but he seems to constantly quoting Germans saying they're had been starving between the wars and complicated brutal plans to secure food for Germany and never really picks out that it might be a crucial factor. But yeah, I'd agree Kershaw is the man either in writing or presenting verbally on this topic.

Historical antisemitism

But countries and areas of Germany that had no tradition of Anti antisemitism got involved. Holland sent 80pc of it's Jews to Concentration camps yet had a history of terrific relations with a well integrated Jewish population. I'm sure that was a massive part of it in a lot of areas inside and outside of Germany. (What tiny support the Nazis had in the UK seems to have been 100pc about anti-semitism. To them Jews were the problem and Nazis were the solution.)

I'm beginning to think that some people on this forum have never seen any of the the anti-Jew propaganda from the 1930s.

Type "nazi anti-Jewish propaganda" into Google image search, check out the anti-Jewish films, anti-Jewish literature... .

Now read all of the anti-EU articles in the DM, Telegraph and red tops over the past 40 years.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/20-reasons-you-should-vote-to-leave-the-european-union/

Brits are being led down a dangerous path my media manipulation, lies, and manipulative politicians in just the same way as Germans were led cheering into National Socialism.

Who the ** is cheering? Our Politicians are hated, theu can't achieve anything, they can't even get a majority. One of our main parties can't even get people to campaign for it at election time, let alone raise a 1,000,000 man private army. The other party can probably raise a private army (of sorts) but has lost it's popular support.

We've never been further away from a strong charismatic Leader with a load of enthusiastic support and an iron grip control of the media.

If you wanted to make the case for fascism getting control in this scenario you'd be far better of saying that the weakness and total lack of ability of our politicians to manipulate is paving the way for a future popular strong leader. (and that case *would* have strong parallels with the collapse of the Wiemar Republic. - but would still be bollocks in relation to the Uk.)

We’ve never been further away from a strong charismatic Leader with a load of enthusiastic support and an iron grip control of the media.

Farage and Johnson in 2016

Farage and Johnson in 2016

So your example of the terrific strong leaderto lead us on an imperialist conquest in killing 10s of millions in Europe and beyond is two unpopular has-beens who's political careers are completely over.

Both of whom are opposed to a single European State.

Lets assume they somehow gain power with a reasonable majority. They can hardly say "You know we said we wanted to be out of the EU, we actually want to invade it with our piss small 85,000 man Army/Navy/Airforce and unite it, but behind us." And once they open up the deathcamps how are they gonna stop it being all over whatsapp and twitter? Invade the USA as well?

It's just nonsense. ...and if you think it's not nonsense don't you have a moral duty to assassinate at least one them? You'd be saving tens of millions of lives.

I'm 48, I'm a barber from Bradford and I have yet to meet anybody with that opinion.

Lies and propaganda got Britain into its last major conflict with around 100 000 killed and will do into its next.

The xenophobia in British media has already brought Britain into a trade conflict with its tradin allies (allies until 29/3 unless art. 50 is withdrawn). How long before that trade conflict turns into real conflict as impoverished Brits are told by their red tops to it's all the fault of other countires and the only solution is military ? You'll be back to "gotta support the navy/troops". When politicians are in dire starits at home they start wars.

outofbreath
...You were comparing a liberal 21stC democracy...

You are joking, aren't you?

Liberal? Have you checked the death rate amongst the weak and vulnerable under this mob? And would a liberal govt be preparing to put troops in the streets in just a few weeks time to maintain order?

Democracy? Even Enoch Powell didn't regard our system as a democracy.

Nope he blew it within seconds

You agree that the defining example of stupidity in Britain today is that guy?

When we have this bright spark?

He makes this satirical moron look clever

You agree that the defining example of stupidity in Britain today is that guy?

When we have this bright spark?

Nope the fact you used what is the equivalent of racist groupings to sum up all the people form one area as the same. It was at the point where you were complaining about people generalising about somebodies race and accent.

Liberal? Have you checked the death rate amongst the weak and vulnerable under this mob? And would a liberal govt be preparing to put troops in the streets in just a few weeks time to maintain order?

What is the death rate amongst the weak and vulnerable?
Also, I can't find a reputable source that says troops will be put on the street for the purpose of 'maintaining order'. Do you have one.
You previously stated the UK was almost there in comparison with Nazi Germany. Read what happened to Jewish people in Nazi Germany in the 30's. We are nowhere near.
Also, what are the UK's eugenics pogroms that you speak of epicyclo?

Not sure about the lack of interest or education, there seems to be an active desire to deny the truth of the scale of the holocaust. I have to take issue with the idea that young people are too far removed. My kids were asking about the holocaust today. They already knew a lot, though still in primary school, both from bbc newsround but also from the projects run in the week before holocaust Memorial Day. Frankly the state of the political class coupled with the apparent death of rationalism and the death of a critical media in which to communicate leaves society exposed to bilious stupidity. So yeah the fact that a significant number of potential voters don’t understand the significance of the holocaust is worrying.

Nope the fact you used what is the equivalent of racist groupings to sum up all the people form one area as the same.

But aren't the worst levels of educational attainment found in white northern towns?

I mean, it's not racist if it's true 'ey....nod nod wink wink.

It's not a racist grouping either, it's possibly a prejudiced one. But it's not equivalent to a racist one because there aren't black institutions and ingrained socioeconomic factors conspiring to keep the white man down.

😀

It's probably classist my fellow cracker. (Look, I'm reappropriating this nasty nasty word with utterly evil historical connotations for you as a term of endearment).