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Nominative determinism. A chain reaction occurs prior to it all going bang loudly. Possibly why the brand most closely associated with CR has been Nukeproof.
I always had excellent service and prices from CRC, I hope staff find new and secure roles.
A useful reminder that this is real people and real jobs. I hope that all the staff find good jobs that work for them.
I hope all the Nukeproof guys get fired up and someone starts up another company doing the same with the similar builds etc… a bit of a phoenix from the flames.
I hope so too. But I’m assuming a lot of people looked long and had at buying Nukeproof, including the current team. The conclusion must have been that they couldn’t make it work. Although we don’t know what the brand would have cost, it’s hard to imagine that starting a new brand from scratch would have been cheaper. I think that the cycling industry consensus must have been, with many brands close to going bust, now is not the time to invest
Just read this...very sad news.
I really hope they rise again too.
Is there anyone doing value alu hardtail frames anymore?
The Vitus/Nukeproof/Ragley stuff was quite well thoughtout, as was the Pinnacle stuff from Evans. Even On-one seemed to have lost interest in frame only options judging from their pricing.
Maybe Aliexpress is the only answer. At least their frames have "fish scale proces"
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006363539292.html
but he’s also never been that into the internet has he, so this is a change for him…
He doesn't need to be, my understanding is that's he's bought the name and the IP, he's not bought it as a going-concern and therefore he won't be operating the webshop
I hope all the Nukeproof guys get fired up and someone starts up another company doing the same with the similar builds etc… a bit of a phoenix from the flames
Islabike? They created the "decent bikes for kids" market. Two competitors, Vitus and Nukeproof are just about to exit it. Perhaps Islabike is due a resurrection
I've had uniformly good experiences both buying from Wiggle and with Nukeproof parts in particular and will be sad to see them and CRC go. As per anyone else here with an ounce of empathy, I hope the staff are able to find alternative employment and wish them well generally.
Also, people keep mentioning Karrimor as a name that was 'ruined' by Mike Ashley. In fact, regardless of what he's done with the brand, Karrimor pretty much shafted itself well before he bought it. Initially it was an innovative company thanks largely to Mike Parsons, who was behind stuff like the Karrimat, KSB lightweight boot and more, but things went quite badly wrong when they decided they were going to become some sort of fashion mega-brand off the back of a positive fleece review in GQ or FHM and created a huge new-season range of mostly light blue technical clothing that didn't really work very well in technical terms, but didn't appeal to fashionistas either.
In the aftermath of that, they were bought out by an Irish holding company, relocated for a few years to Dublin and pretty much lost their identity as a hands-on outdoor brand. They were a sort of zombie shell of a real brand well before Mike Ashley.
Karrimor may have screwed themselves, but what it is now is nothing to do with what it was. But it's not unusual in cycling, see Carnac, Vitus, nukeproof, Holdsworth, etc etc. I think even Silca is barely connected to its past.
It would be nice for companies to offer products that are genuine rather than trading off some history. At least Rapha picked a new name rather than trying to commandeer some other company.
@Captain-Pugwash I feel for you having been through similar in the past. Good luck finding something suitable
Yes, good luck to Pugwash and all the rest in finding secure and fulfilling new roles. I really feel for you.
As I've mentioned before someone close to me was royally shafted by wiggle some years back over employment (offered a job with them and had resigned and left their current job before wiggle withdrew the offer hours before they were meant to start citing a restructure and the job no longer existing. Turned out later for those in the business that the restructure was in the works long before the offer was made and they only went ahead and offered as a backstop in case it didn't go through) which has left me very ambivalent about them as an employer or someone to spend money with ever since. But this really sucks for many of you.
Islabike? They created the “decent bikes for kids” market. Two competitors, Vitus and Nukeproof are just about to exit it. Perhaps Islabike is due a resurrection
That's not going to happen. Isla's a Quaker and their level of ethics is far beyond merely running a business. Which is why they packed it in rather than selling on the brand.
Interestingly Mike Ashley owns a stake (25% or 33% IIRC) in Agent Provocateur, which has more-or-less remained a very upmarket lingerie retailer since his arrival. So perhaps he is capable of operating different business models.
(Or, maybe the other board members are just capable of standing up to him...)
It’ll also be a shame for Vitus buyers as they were excellent value
They weren't excellent value, they were being sold at or below cost. That's not a unsustainable business model so if they do return then they wont be excellent value.
I suspect the reason for buying the IP (though oddly not the stock) is because if you google "cheap fox 38s" and the 7 of the top 10 results all point to businesses you own then you've got a head start over the competitors. So I would expect to see Wiggle & CRC web names live on but pointing to the same website architecture as Evans or Sports Direct just with their own brand colour coding.
As for why you'd buy Nukeproof and Vitus and all the sub brand IP, it might just have been a case it was bundled in together by the administrators so it was all or nothing. Give it a couple of years for it all to die down then stick the brand names on the market again... remember that they've both already had 2 different owners, Saracen has had maybe 3. Holdsworth, Titus & POD have all come back to the market under PX.
Wasn't the Karrimor factory shop just outside Accrington? I'm still wearing a base layer I got from there about 30 years ago .....
Interestingly Mike Ashley owns a stake (25% or 33% IIRC) in Agent Provocateur,
they have also for a few years now owned 37% of mulberry, which so far still maintains its cachet. although that might be due to them keeping him at arms length they rejected his requests for a place on their board and said that while Ashley is “an important shareholder, a successful businessman . . . we don’t consider he has the expertise that we need to grow the company”
Bugger- just found out he also owns 10% of Hornby.
Saracen has had maybe 3
At the very least. Think they were the original owners up until the mid 90's, then sold on where they continued to make some decent stuff. Went hugely downhill and in to BSO territory in the 2000's so assume they were sold again before finally ending up with Maddison?
Islabike? They created the “decent bikes for kids” market. Two competitors, Vitus and Nukeproof are just about to exit it. Perhaps Islabike is due a resurrection
That’s not going to happen. Isla’s a Quaker and their level of ethics is far beyond merely running a business. Which is why they packed it in rather than selling on the brand.
I'm merely pointing out that the marketplace will be getting less crowded and perhaps more favourable for Islabikes to restart or relaunch themselves. There's going to be less choice of decent kids bikes. Nukeproof and Vitus will never be the same again if Pinnacle are anything to go by.
He doesn’t need to be, my understanding is that’s he’s bought the name and the IP, he’s not bought it as a going-concern and therefore he won’t be operating the webshop
If that's really the case then he/they are bonkers. But I'd have thought stuff like domain names and the associated market presence comes under the general heading of 'IP' surely? Not just 'Brands' and product names...
I can see Frazer group "re-skinning" the wiggle and CRC websites as front ends for their existing Evans web store, I mean wiggle/CRC were the ones to pioneer having two storefronts for the same business. Is it much more sweat for the potential increase in traffic?
In much the same way, how much trouble is it to get their existing suppliers for Pinnacle bikes to pop a Vitus decal on a frame?
I’m merely pointing out that the marketplace will be getting less crowded and perhaps more favourable for Islabikes to restart or relaunch themselves. There’s going to be less choice of decent kids bikes. Nukeproof and Vitus will never be the same again if Pinnacle are anything to go by.
It may be shrinking, but I don't think it's going to become a hospitable marketplace for businesses with a more ethical set of core values, it's just going to become a smaller pond with some bigger sharks swimming in it. That's part of why Isla shut up shop (IMO).
I feel for all the staff. It can't be pleasant finding out you've all lost your jobs in a such a public way.
On the mercenary front. I had some grips in my basket for a while I ordered this time last night. Dispatched last night EVRI dropped them off just now. So some slightly less unfortunate employees are still putting a shift I .
Seems basically bizarre that you can go from being such a huge retail concern, with own brands and dominant market position and 450 staff, to "nobody wants to buy this as a company at any price, the only deal that can be made is for the paperwork". Very sad.
It's probably more to do with the state of the cycle industry.
Cycle retail is on it's a**e.
Sales are down.
Lots of businesses have lots of stock that they can't shift.
Most businesses are struggling to make any profit.
In short, who can afford and/or justify to buy a relatively huge company that itself hasn't made any profit the past few years?
Even if you could buy the whole lot for a pound, making it profitable wouldn't be a quick task, and would require substantial investment.
Nukeproof and Vitus will never be the same again if Pinnacle are anything to go by.
I don't know about the other brands but I was under the impression Vitus were a completely separate entity operating out of Wiggle premises through mutual agreement.
I guess they'll be pretty screwed either way, but do we know which brands are owned by Wiggle?
Edit: Turns out they're both owned by Signa Sports. That's not what I'd been led to believe.
The Wiggle and CRC websites are still up and apparently accepting orders. Are they somehow still functioning? I'm after a Brand-X dropper post which as far as I am aware no one else sells, although there are some on eBay. I assume I'd be stupid to risk buying from CRC/Wiggle...
What size? I have a new 31.6x125mm post I need to sell. Yes they are currently still dispatching orders.
I assume I’d be stupid to risk buying from CRC/Wiggle…
Not really. They are still in administration and trading. Skeleton staff left. I placed an order yesterday. Dispatched this morning. Main concern is that you are unlikely to be able to return it if there are issues. I'd pay with PayPal for a bit of protection though
Thanks @nickjb. I've just ordered it (using a credit card) - fingers crossed!
Mike Ashley now has a ready made global sales outlet with the CRC/Wiggle name. That was he was missing with Evans and what was probably interesting to him.
CRC/Wiggle were only popular abroad because they were cheaper (and often faster) than buying locally. I can’t see him returning them to that model, as it’s the same one that cussed this mess (minus takeover and website nonsense)
Back in day I could buy from shambolic LBSes (nothing has changed) or mail order with a letter and cheque from better stocked bike shops, Routens in France and CRC in NI. Then I set up a bike business and bought from the trade suppliers and sometimes SJSC because they stocked stuff the trade had forgotten. The Internet provided a business opportunity and my own effort was one of the many that didn't make it big. I took a sabatical.
So back to being a normal customer which was great - bike-components.de in Aachen, Merlin, CRC, Streakx, SJSC, Fahrrad.de, probikeshop, kelvelo - great service and competetive prices all of them. One exception, Wiggle were slow and I'm certain they lost my credit card details which cost me time and bank fees.
I was a little dubious then when CRC and Wiggle merged. CRC continued as usual for a while, then they started sending me the wrong stuff and the delighful French lady who used to pick up the phone to sort out any problems went missing. I still used CRC occasionally for their own brands such as Vitus and Nukeproof. Then came Brexit day, my account ceased to exist and I couldn't open a new one from France.
Five of the businesses I've quoted are still up and running and providing great service. I see more people on bikes than since the 60s. Bike retailing is far from dead, someone will fill a partial vacuum. I hope those left in the lurch find altetnatives or set up their own ventures.
I’ll be testing the refund waters imminently. Ordered a (very) reduced Garmin and HRM strap a few days ago, paid with PayPal and today received…an empty box. As in, completely empty! Parcel tape had clearly been cut then resealed so suspect someone at Parcelforce has had some light fingers.
Have spoken to Parcelforce, who passed me back to Wiggle.
Have emailed wiggle but received no reply (yet).
And have raised a dispute with Paypal, who had passed it on to Wiggle.
Will wait and see how this unfolds….
The dropper post I ordered from Wiggle over the weekend arrived yesterday.
(and for the record it was my (excellent) LBS that suggested I buy it from Wiggle as they couldn't source one through their supplier)
I've ordered a chunk of spares for my Mega 290 Carbon - bolts & linkage mainly, probably never need them, but just in case, and a couple of Brand-X dropper service kits.
Just curious, has anyone received a refund from CRC in the last few days?
I ordered a load of shit on Thursday and not had anything cancelled. The stock tracking is very much live though (I lost a few things between putting in basket and checking out) and they're deleting stuff that isn't in stock every so often (should have bought that Mini bore cap tool at the time!).
Think I've just placed my last ever order with Chain Reaction, almost £100 worth of stuff for £25. This sale has really thrown the my expectation of the price of things, I expect a 75% discount with every retailer now!
I've got my eye on a couple of final bits if they're reduced further but I'm not desperate for them. Would love to know how much I've spent with them over the years, at one point I had gold membership as I was buying something at least every other week!
Can't believe they've almost gone, despite the terrible website they were always there and even their standard delivery was quick. Shame to see them go but hopefully this opens the market for someone else.
Would love to know how much I’ve spent with them over the years, at one point I had gold membership as I was buying something at least every other week!
Would be interesting as I was on Platinum a lot of the time. No record of past purchases pre website change though is there and probably better I didn't know anyway!
One small (and I mean small in comparison to all those folk who have lost their jobs) personal benefit from Chiggle going under is I'm not going to be constantly hating myself for ordering from a company that use Evri for delivery. I usually refuse to order anything that is knowingly going to be delivered by Evri but would succumb for chiggle all too readily.
Its been 9 days and counting that my very last chiggle order has been sat at the local depot. It'll get here - they nearly always do, usual wait is around two weeks for it to make the last 20 miles. They use a third party shower of shit for the last leg on Highland deliveries who are beyond hopeless. Amazon prime next actually arrives next day and RM/ Parcelforce manage it too - just the fetid devil's ball sack that is Evri that are so useless. So yeah, not repeatedly disappointing myself by caving and using them is one small mercy.
I’m getting back into riding after quite a few years off. The e-bike deals are really tempting, but assume there is basically no warranty now on vitus/nukeproof frames? Might have more luck on component warranties such as Shimano (thinking of the steps motor).
Anyone got and info regarding this?
So it looks like he paid under £10 million
Presumably losing all dept in the process
https://road.cc/content/news/mike-ashleys-frasers-group-buys-wiggle-ps10m-307081
@convert - our Evri deliveries are just as good/regular as Amazon, PO etc. Tracking is accurate and everything arrives on time.
Presumably losing all dept in the process
That's how these things work - if dept was transferred to a new owner they'd be in no better place than the previous owner.
It's shit, but that's how it is.
And I've been on the receiving end of this when companies have gone bust on me.
Mike Ashley’s Frasers Group has acquired Wiggle Chain Reaction Cycles’ brand and intellectual property
Debt doesn't come into it. He's just bought the name and IP - presumably to slap on his existing online cycling offer.
He's not bought the business as a going concern. It's not like a pre-pack deal where the business gets phoenix-ed and trading continues via a very similar entity.
So it looks like he paid under £10 million
Presumably losing all dept in the process
As above, he's just bought the names/logos * of the shop (and house brands). He's not bought the company, the real estate, the stock, the staff etc.
I've no love for the guy but if you're going to be facetious he's paid £10million to the creditors they wouldn't have got otherwise.
The point of going into administration when you're insolvent and unable to continue trading is so that suppliers etc can try and get their money back. There are examples of companies abusing the system to avoid liabilities, but in this case it seems a fairly straightforward case of the business model just didn't work, so there was no "business" worth selling (phenix like or otherwise).
The company's total unsecured debts were only £26.7 million, so between that £10million and the stock clearance it'll be interesting to see how much/little is actually lost. Most of the "debt" seems to have been moved into the holding company which folded but I presume that debt was owned by investors not suppliers.
*it's not really clear if he's bought the rest of the IP like designs, websites etc?
The interesting thing to me is that £10m is potentially a bit of a bargain if it gives Fraser group a better internet cycling storefront that Evans plus a few more brand names slap on their tat...
As also reported in February, the deal will result in all 447 of WiggleCRC’s employees losing their jobs, with a number taking to social media last week to confirm that their “time was up” at the company as the administrators “closed the shutters”....
...The deal also follows the trend for Frasers to purchase the brand and intellectual property of retailers on the brink of collapse at a heavy discount, while laying off all or almost all of the company’s staff in the process.
^^These statements from the road.cc article^^ feel like the reporting is intended to direct some extra anger/blame at Ashley, instead of Signa who were basically the ones that ****ed the Chiggle employees. He's just buying some of the remaining assets (same as the rest of us picking up heavily discounted kit/parts/bikes). Ashley is no 'business angel' and his growing involvement in the cycling retail world isn't necessarily something to welcome, but it does seem like some of the reporting is a bit disingenuous (IMO).
Wonder if that £10m includes the design specs and supplier data for all the inhouse brand Nukeproof / Vitus / Prime frames and parts and Lifeline / DHB /Fohn clothing?
is intended to direct some extra anger/blame at Ashley, instead of Signa who were basically the ones that **** the Chiggle employees. He’s just buying some of the remaining assets (same as the rest of us picking up heavily discounted kit/parts/bikes).
A very good point. You've made me reconsider how I see this anyway.
Im surprised they got £10m to be honest, seems a lot for what looks like mostly IP and very little stock/assets.
Wonder if that £10m includes the design specs and supplier data for all the inhouse brand Nukeproof / Vitus / Prime frames and parts and Lifeline / DHB /Fohn clothing?
Also curious about this.
They could get a few more years out of those designs (longer for clothing) without having to employ a design team.
What have they done with Evans' in-house stuff? Might give a clue.
I agree with that - I would have thought that if nobody else took CRC / Wiggle a £10mill investment in a newly branded online store would be a better way to spend money. £10mil buys a lot of google ads / web development / logo designs etc.
It will be interesting to see exactly what happens here with the in-house brands, maybe a calculation has been made that they can re-sell those brands or that much of the value lies here.
Wonder if that £10m includes the design specs and supplier data for all the inhouse brand Nukeproof / Vitus / Prime frames and parts and Lifeline / DHB /Fohn clothing?
If it does, it's a bit of a bargain, but I suspect there's a limit to what sort of manufacturing Fraser group will actually want to undertake in a rather Recessive cycling market.
If they own the rights to designs rather than just logos I'd expect them to maybe pick up the 'soft goods' side of things.
Im surprised they got £10m to be honest, seems a lot for what looks like mostly IP and very little stock/assets.
Surely the stock comes with Debts attached, and is now significantly devalued by the recent fire sales.
I wouldn't undervalue IP (although it's still unclear what 'IP' actually covers in this instance) the Wiggle and CRC web addresses alone should generate plenty of sales traffic (thus they are assets in their own right), not everyone will be as aware as us bike nerds about these industry shenanigans and will follow the top hits from google or bang in the same URL they always have to buy some bike stuff...
Some of the brands have some solid value, I still see plenty of DHB kit out and about when riding, it ain't Castelli or Rapha but DHB is pretty widely purchased and used, carrying over their VFM proposition could well suit Fraser group.
NP/Ragley/Vitus Dunno, Is Vitus really worth much more than Pinnacle? Will Fraser group want to pick up manufacture of more 'premium' pitched brands like NP or Ragley? or start knocking out Carbon wheels under the prime brand again?
Given they're already picking over the bones of a recessive online cycling retail market Probably not in the first year or two.
If they make 3x their £10m back on the deal within ~24 months (they probably will), they might consider trying their hand at more adventurous stuff but it's all a Risk Vs Reward calculation.
The other thing they might consider is parting out some of that IP to sell on, This certainly isn't the first incarnation of NukeProof, and I'm sure someone thinks they'd be able to revive Ragley as a brand post Chiggle...
£10m is a pretty good price IMO.
I want bemoaning the buying without debt. I was more thinking that if he gets the designs too it’s not a huge amount of money.
I’m assuming that at some point when i Google mountain bike I’ll see a bike called a Nukeproof on a website called wiggle. That bike will have no further design or marketing costs over what has just been paid.
Will Fraser group want to pick up manufacture of more ‘premium’ pitched brands like NP or Ragley?
See I was thinking the opposite. Presumably if they want Nukeproof bikes all they have do is email the manufacturer with numbers in each size….
See I was thinking the opposite. Presumably if they want Nukeproof bikes all they have do is email the manufacturer with numbers in each size….
And then pay, probably up front given the last couple of years.
Plus weren't Chiggle assembling NP frames and components together here in the UK?
Fraser group (Evans) are probably more used to Pinnacles turning as complete boxed bikes from the far east, only requiring a 'turn the bars, fit pedals' type PDI, not doing full builds or sourcing finishing kit, that's all cost I doubt they'd want to swallow and logistics they're not currently setup for, especially given how it all turned out for the company they've just bought a brand name from.
£10m seems a lot to me. They paid £8m for all of Evans in a more bouyant (or at least more certain) market.
Edit: Just read the article though. It says 'worth less than £10 million,' which is not £10m. So what is it?
That’s an interesting comparison. Evans were in administration but he took on the stores. So I guess he took on more liability than with the chiggle deal
See I was thinking the opposite. Presumably if they want Nukeproof bikes all they have do is email the manufacturer with numbers in each size….
Old Nukeproof should own the moulds, with exclusive use of the frame designs. If (as above) the frame manufacturer is owed money then I'm sure there will be some interesting and frank discussions about getting access to them (which at best means Ashley having to buy the moulds from the Administrator).
It looks like a great big mess.
He won't though, it'll just be catalogue bikes.
Still no order despatch confirmation, supposed to arrive Wednesday. Whatever, I can live without the stuff but it would have been handy.
The very cheap Brand X dropper post I ordered on Thursday arrived this morning. All good, but no sweeties in the box. Things really must be bad.
Got the dispatch note soon after I posted.
They owe Haribo £20k, I wouldn't imagine there will be any freebies.
I think the "under" in under £10m must be doing some heavy lifting - the IP is worth a very small percentage of that without the team and infrastucture around it.
That's it then - websites are now closed.
Placed an order a couple of days ago so hopefully that'll be delivered.
Who is left to build jumps and switchbacks, I wonder...
Edit: Looking at the wording, I can't help but think there was no one left to even write the text for the holding page and so someone just asked ChatGPT to come up with something.
Who is left to build jumps and switchbacks, I wonder…
Edit: Looking at the wording, I can’t help but think there was no one left to even write the text for the holding page and so someone just asked ChatGPT to come up with something.
It's just the holding page from when they changed the website design/infrastructure last year, with a couple of sentences of spiel added at the bottom re. current orders.
Just reading through the list of creditors. There is no way the demise of Wiggle is not going to have a domino effect for the bike industry. So many of these companies won't be able to sustain the scale of loss. 🙁
Interesting that 'software' is valued at £1m. Cant be the website??
Some of the numbers blow my little mind.
Yep, lots or 6 figure sums owed and quite a few over a million, I'm sure Google can afford it but there will be plenty of companies on that list that it'll hit hard. Singletrack owed about £1200
Endura owed quite a bit. That will sting! Can companies take out insurance against this sort of thing?
Quite a few with big numbers - Madison, Hope & Endura...
Also the Race Team are owed too - Sam Hill £34k, Kelan Grant, Eliot Heap, Dan Booker, Corey Watson, Joe Smith & Jacy Shumalik.......
Oh and still owe Haribo £24k.....
Some riders/film makers on that list aswell. Sam Hill is owed £35k!
EDIT - Should have refreshed before I posted!
I can sort of see how the bike industry supply chain has ended up like this, where Chiggle are the bigger entity in the deal but there are some odd ones in there. Oracle are owed £445k, how have they not pulled the plug on whatever their contract was for before it got that bad!
Some of the distributors are stuck with silly amounts owing to them aren't they.
Why would you let them build that sort of debt, Saddleback over £800k, Garmin also! What were their credit control and risk teams doing?
They didn't even settle up with the bloody Milk Delivery Person...
What were their credit control and risk teams doing?
Depends entirely on whether or not WCRC's credit with those suppliers was insured.
There are some very big numbers on that list which will be insured and therefore survivable, and some smaller numbers that were not and could end up sinking the business they were owed to.
The numbers themselves are not the whole story.
That list is 6 months old though - It remains to be seen how much of this debt has been paid and to who, I imagine some suppliers collected stock unpaid too.
I imagine a larger guys giving out credit are insured if they do lose big, maybe not though - I agree that there will be a knock-on effect from this though, especially as I can imagine bike companies aren't flush for cash right now.