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loads of comments on here, and the other Orange thread, saying people don’t want the UK made thing
I’m not sure that’s true. It feels like there are more small/medium sized UK based bike brands than there were at the height of Oranges popularity? People are still buying UK products (even if not everything is made here) but more choice means that brands are getting a smaller slice of the total (now smaller thanks to you know what) market?
...if I’m spending a stack of money of a push bike I want to feel some connection with it. Always have with Orange and Hope stuff (Pace too, to a point). I thought about replacing my full suss with one of the Nukeproof/Vitus bargains but they just leave me cold...
Which is kind of where I'm at - irrespective of where it was made I kind of buy into more than just a bike. I loved my Yeti, I love my Ti Sonder - I bought into their principles and/or heritage etc as well as excellence of design and manufacture I have a Nukeproof gravel bike which is perfectly competent in every way - but its just a lump of metal. I love where it takes me, but I don't love it. That's okay though because as a bike it cost less than the price of its groupset and wheels. For no good reason, sooner or later I'll buy a Ti Camino. Daft daft daft!
From the other thread:
had a 97 P7 in nickel too
Me too!
It was actually my first proper mountain bike and I'm still riding it as my commuter/gravel bike. Kind of.
It's a proper Trigger's Broom job as I've replaced every single part on it (including the frame after I flared the headtube although the replacement frame is not a nickel one unfortunately) with the only original part left being the forks so at least there's still some of the original nickel with black stickers (as well as some '97 MBUK stickers I thought were the height of cool at the time).
So yeah, Orange is definitely an important part of my own mountain biking history so really sad to hear this.
had a 97 P7 in nickel too
The one that got away for me, wanted one so badly for a good while but unsure why I didn't. Until I got a Soul which the I can't see a P7 bettering. It is in nickel (mercury) finish with orange decals, though, so pretty good "compromise".
Don’t think I’m a
but the MIB🇬🇧 aspect has always had some appeal. Was considering a 5 once, but that was the year Cannondales were crazily discounted so ended up witha Trigger 29 instead! (Which I still have)little Englander
The expansion into far-eastern alu frames is something I never understood as to me it moved away from what I saw as their USP. If the (R)X9 had a made-in-UK steel frame (or even better, carbon, which seems to be what everyone wants these days) I’d certainly have bought one. As it is they offer absolutely nothing to stand out.
also agree with most others that the mind-boggling range of frames/wheel-sizes makes no sense!
Agreed with above ....seen this a lot recently. Admin close thread on anything on there main page that gets posted I the forum .
Not great
As mentioned by mark. Any story on the front page automatically gets a forum post, and there’s no point having duplicates, so the thread linked to the article stays.
Why’s that a problem? Nothing gets deleted?
also agree with most others that the mind-boggling range of frames/wheel-sizes makes no sense!
That's a classic case of trying to cater for everyone but ending up with such a large and confusing range that you cater for no-one.
It's also an effective doubling of stock of things like forks, rims and tyres which is a huge extra cost.
Pick a wheel size - the industry seems to have mostly decided on 29" with a few mullet exceptions - and then stick with it.
The expansion into far-eastern alu frames is something I never understood as to me it moved away from what I saw as their USP. If the (R)X9 had a made-in-UK steel frame (or even better, carbon, which seems to be what everyone wants these days) I’d certainly have bought one. As it is they offer absolutely nothing to stand out.
The majority or Orange frames have always been made in Asia though. Ironically Orange was born when another UK MTB brand went pop with a container full of frames on a ship in the middle of the ocean. Tushingham purchased and rebranded them and shortly after rebranded again under the Orange brand. Back then (I think) only the Formula was UK made and they were rare. The early alu (O and E) frames were Asia made.
It’s only really since the predecessor to the Five that they had a ‘Made in the UK’ tag to promote.
It’s only really since the Five they had a ‘Made in the UK’ tag to promote.
What?
Pish, back when I was getting into mtb properly you had the Sub 5, Sub 3, Partriot and MsIsle at the very least, that was around 98. There was still the Mr O before then, the Five came much later.
Basically any kite frame was made in house and the straight tubes (Gringo, Air-O etc) were offshored.
Thinking about it, one of Oranges strengths became one of their weaknesses. They were always innovative (well into the 2000s FYI) and had new frames coming out all the time (Body Czech, Hitman etc.) so never got stale. At the same time they would retire older or lower selling designs so you never had too many to choose from. They were a staple on the DH scene as well, Patriots and 22X's were well used and constantly being tweaked. They were so popular I remember Silver Fox shitheaps being stickered up to look like Global Racing 222's.
Bit last I looked they had, as said, a bewildering range and it became a case of paralysis by analysis. If they consolidated that and at least gave things the same name across wheel sizes or made a flip chip to easily convert it would make things easier. People like choice but not when it's inflexible. I have an old P7 with the all in one sliding derailleur dropout that gives you all the options without having to compromise.
What?
Pish, back when I was getting into mtb properly you had the Sub 5, Sub 3, Partriot and MsIsle at the very least, that was around 98. There was still the Mr O before then, the Five came much later.
Basically any kite frame was made in house and the straight tubes (Gringo, Air-O etc) were offshored.
So the predecessor to the Five then? I edited the initial post as was using the Five for a catch all term for the folded alu bikes. Point being that the companies formative years weren’t built on UK manufacturing and they still did very well. I completely agree with you on innovation.
For those of you saying they weren’t great value compared to the direct selling box shifters…. Yeah that’s the shop margin. If you buy on price like that you have thus killed the bike shops.
For those of you saying it’s three times the price of a company selling bikes at a loss as part of a corporate strategy to kill off everyone else in the industry…. Yeah you’re right there. Shame they went bankrupt after killing most of the industry already.
for those who said brexit was a great idea…. Yeah the reality is it annihilated the export market for most companies based here.
I’ve still got my missile. First bankruptcy company I’ve felt any real sadness for. Is there going to be any U.K. manufacturers left by the end of the year.
neil SuperstarComponents
I ended up with a Merida last time I brought an MTB as I couldn't justify the extra £600 for a far-east built frame from Orange with a lower spec. They were very poor VFM against the competition in early 2021.
My past had a C16R (my first MTB) and a Sub5 (the second).
I edited the initial post as was using the Five for a catch all term for the folded alu bikes.
So basically that's like saying Henry Ford made the very first production line for a Mustang.
The Five came out probably 10 years after the first homegrown, possibly more.
IA
Full Member
IMO it was the Patriot that made them, not the 5. The 5 was an evolution of the Patrio
Agreed. Animal then Global racing riding the Patriot (LT in particular) really made them popular. Having young Minnaar was a massive help. Nobody really bought the “Patriot is a DH bike” line though and they sorted that with the lightest DH bike on the scene with the 222
Perfectly possible they just use insolvency as a method to clear their debts and start again buying the salable assets from the liquidator. Exactly what my company did three years ago, we owed $20m, the next week we owed $0 and carried on trading under the same company name, selling the same stock to the same customers. Only thing that actually changed was the company number with Companies house. Obvs a lot of complex legal stuff to do that, but very standard process.
Our restructuring was quite clever, the previous main secured creditor restarted us, so when New Co bought stock from the liquidator, they paid that money to the secured creditor (who also owned NewCo), who just gave it straight back to his new company. So we basically bought all the stock for $0...
Trouble is if you do that you burn the bridges with your old suppliers and likely need to find new ones. Doable if you are a massively important client to your suppliers. Not that feasible if you are small player and one of many customers of your suppliers.
Another Orange owner and I’d be very sad if this was the end of the road for them, or if they get up being bought up by that sports direct bloke.
I still have an original Patriot Lt serving as a spider web/ dust collector in the garage, no cracks and its on it’s original pivot bearings (albeit a little baggy) and that was after a lot of abuse over many trips to the Alps, I can’t think of many bikes you’d get that with. Looks wise, obviously they have their haters but I always quite like the industrial simplicity. Rode like a tank, one of the original ploughing bikes and definitely ahead of the curve geo wise. Have an aging Alpine 160 now and it still brings a smile to my face, definitely poppy and fun and sub 30lb with the build I have, not easy without spending £££ these days.
Agree that they got too confusing with the model names and too many models as well, was much easier back in their heyday. They seemed to be bringing out fresh models and names every year almost.
Hope that something can be sorted out for the future.
Trouble is if you do that you burn the bridges with your old suppliers and likely need to find new ones.
Not necessarily, eg we continued using the same suppliers.
They had lost the money they were owed, it was never going to get repaid. But, they had the chance to make some of it back from new business. Our new payment terms were much worse (100% upfront), but we carried on working together. And we were a complete minnow, our largest supplier was a billion dollar contract manuf and we did a few $m a year with them.
Some of the comments on this thread are pretty poor.While its a sad day, If I'd run a mountain bike manufacturing company from the UK that had sales all over the world for the last 35 years won world cups and was a must have bike for any number of young mountain bikers (like myself) back in the day; I'd be pretty proud of myself regardless of how it ended. (global supply issues that they had little to no control over) Any brand/company that survives in the jungle that is discretionary consumer spending for that long deserves a well done from everyone whether you like the brand or no.
Some of the comments on this thread are pretty poor.
Or people just being honest?
Yes it's sad they've gone bust and people may loose their jobs, but I also always thought their bikes looked goping and were hideously overpriced, so never understood the appeal personally. You don't have to *love* every company which goes bust.
I think the major problem for Orange is the die hard fans of years gone by have aged and are all on e-bikes now - they’ve lost a huge customer base just from people shifting to e-bikes
I know plenty of 50-60 year olds who wouldn’t ride anything other than a Orange for ease of maintenance etc - every single one of them is on some form of ebike now - the late/old aged man with a bit of spare cash were what the majority Orange sold to have now all carted off to e-bikes and not replenished the customer base as youngsters don’t want them anymore
50-60 year old here on a Stage Evo. Gets more use than the e-bike. Great fun. Sad times for all. Can I ask what happens to the warranty I had?
every single one of them is on some form of ebike now
60+ year old here, who uses an Orange Five, as well as a Tallboy and a fat bike. Not considering an e-bike for a while yet.
But to be fair, your underlying point is probably right.
IMO it was the Patriot that made them, not the 5. The 5 was an evolution of the Patriot
The 5 was an evolution of the sub-5, which was an evolution of the mrXC. Both the mrXC and the patriot (which was sold alongside the 5 line for many years, as a longer travel/burlier option) were launched at the 1999 bike show, and were evolutions in a way of the Mr white.
This is really sad. I got into MTB when Peaty was on his 222, Minnar, Giove and Hannah were on Global racing on 222s, and my mates were riding trials on Zeros. I wanted a Ms'Isle so bad.
I associate them with the UK privateer racing scene and loads of guys my age got a leg up on their bikes (thinking Cathro, Barnes, MTBCut?, Mojo teams?). Still, to me, MTB is Orange Bikes.
Remember when they used to be absolutely ubiquitous at trail centres? I think sometime in the 10s they started to fade. Carbon became the thing, and hence alu was the budget choice. Unfortunately, UK manufacturing isn't cheap and cheerful, and putting seemingly expensive alu UK bikes against cheapo far east frames, or even fancy carbon frames, became a hard sell. I get it, their market pretty much dried up.
I had an Alpine for a couple of years and really rated it...although it did, admittedly, crack....in the exact same place as my mates Five...but still, it was fun. That said, I've not bought once since, favouring Cotic instead. It's interesting that Cotic seem to be going from strength to strength, while moving to UK/European manufacturing. I suspect they're quite lean, with just a few core bikes, compared to the baffling range that Orange had developed.
It's a real shame to see businesses go under, particularly ones who are unabashedly doing their own thing. Sadly, their existence, to me at least, had become more nostalgia and symbolism, rather than actual a viable product.
Just reading back through the thread and this smacks of bad management…
To be clear. we’ve known about this for several days now and had this story drafted.
…to let the cycle press know before their staff is bad form. The decision would have taken weeks or months to come to. And some forward planning to let staff know before anyone else should have been implemented. There’s never a good time to let people know they are losing their job so doing it asap is the best policy. Certainly better than finding out on a bike forum.
The 5 was an evolution of the sub-5, which was an evolution of the mrXC. Both the mrXC and the patriot (which was sold alongside the 5 line for many years, as a longer travel/burlier option) were launched at the 1999 bike show, and were evolutions in a way of the Mr white.
TBH both are probably right. The Patriot (not the LT) seemed to merge with the Sub-5 leaving the Patriot as the bigger bike.
The expansion into far-eastern alu frames is something I never understood as to me it moved away from what I saw as their USP.
As mentioned, all the early bikes were Far East built (except for the mega limited Formula) including the Clockwork, Prestige, P7, elite, O and Vitamin T. They bought in small batches which meant they could react to market changes and tweak the designs throughout the year.
Tushingham purchased and rebranded them and shortly after rebranded again under the Orange brand.
Not quite. Roger Tushingham branched out from windsurfing and set up Tushingham with the help of Lester Noble (from memory he was semi pro level windsurfer?). After a couple of years he decided to leave the market so Lester used the remaining stock to start Orange with Steve Wade. They were separate companies with different owners. First proper Orange's were basically re-branded Muddy Fox, but only a handful were made before switching to their own design.
The 5 was an evolution of the sub-5, which was an evolution of the mrXC. Both the mrXC and the patriot (which was sold alongside the 5 line for many years, as a longer travel/burlier option) were launched at the 1999 bike show, and were evolutions in a way of the Mr white.
First uk built range were the monocoque UFO, Mr White and Ms Isle in 1999. In 2000 the UFO was re-branded the Mr O and the Patriot appeared along with the Sub 5 and Mr XC.
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/v/Manufacturer+Archive/Orange+Archive/Orange+Catalogues/
It’s interesting that Cotic seem to be going from strength to strength, while moving to UK/European manufacturing.
Wouldn't be so sure about that going by what they said on the Solaris thread. Seems they are find things equally tough so hopefully they make it through. They moved some production to protect themselves.
The only difference between the Patriot and Patriot lt was the shock. 190x50 vs 190x57. They were the same otherwise afaik.
But yes, the sub-3 and 5 were very similar designs to the Patriot and definitely its predecessors, or released very close.
Thinking about it, one of Oranges strengths became one of their weaknesses. They were always innovative (well into the 2000s FYI) and had new frames coming out all the time (Body Czech, Hitman etc.) so never got stale. At the same time they would retire older or lower selling designs so you never had too many to choose from.
True is that, the original owners were happy to retire even their biggest names if the market dried up. Steel Clockwork's vanished in 2000 (2007 limited edition excepted) before resurfacing as a aluminium 29er 13/14 years later. Same with the P7, stopped making them around 2011 which meant they had no steel in their lineup for the first time. Reappeared in 2016 when longer, lower and slacker steel hard tails were becoming popular. By the time Steve and Lester sold the line up was pretty slim.
I’ve loved riding my Four. It’s almost 7 years old and shows no signs of giving up. I regularly check it for cracks in the places they supposedly often fail and nothing thus far. I can’t think of another short travel bike I would rather have. It’s a way more capable bike than the travel numbers might suggest.
plenty of 50-60 year olds who wouldn’t ride anything other than a Orange for ease of maintenance etc – every single one of them is on some form of ebike now – the late/old aged man with a bit of spare cash were what the majority Orange sold to have now all carted off to e-bikes and not replenished the customer base as youngsters don’t want them anymore
But as mentioned above, in the next few years I’ll be looking at Ebikes and I hadn’t even considered an Orange, so there is probably some truth in that.
This is pretty sad , but maybe they can come out the other side.
my first bike was a C16R, my current FS is a Stage Evo.
i bought the Stage Evo because it looks great, rides great, is light and supports British manufacturing. Not in a ‘Little Englander’ way - I’m a Remainer through and through but will try and buy UK made products to support a diverse economy.
2000 the UFO was re-branded the Mr O
The UFO was a urt bike. It fully died in 1999. The Mr o was new for 2000, it was similar to the Mr white but had a different front end
Exactly what my company did three years ago, we owed $20m, the next week we owed $0 and carried on trading under the same company name, selling the same stock to the same customers
In the good old days before public limited companies, the owner would be sent to a debtor's prison until they'd repaid what they owed. While it may be legal, it's no morally different to being a thief or shoplifter.
Cotic are a really different business model. Direct sales and no actual production facilities of their own being beyond assembly.
I've only owned one Orange but it was a fun machine, if a bit over built for what I actually needed (my fault not the bikes). Always fancied a Five but funds never permitted. 
The UFO was a urt bike. It fully died in 1999. The Mr o was new for 2000, it was similar to the Mr white but had a different front end
Yep, you are right.
Anyway, just read on another forum that there's a plan and Orange should be okay. Here's hoping.
While it may be legal, it’s no morally different to being a thief or shoplifter.
Is morally completely different. One is intentionally depriving someone of an asset. The other is agreeing with someone that they will extend credit/goods to you, at their own risk, so they're better positioned to shift more of those goods, and that risk not paying off. A better analogy would be accidentally dropping a bottle of wine on the way to the checkout.
The only difference between the Patriot and Patriot lt was the shock. 190×50 vs 190×57. They were the same otherwise afaik.
There was another key difference. If you tried to run v-brakes on an LT the seat tube could hit the cable and pull the brake on, just when you’d least want it to (in their defence, they made it clear the LT was disc only because of this)
The UFO was a urt bike. It fully died in 1999. The Mr o was new for 2000, it was similar to the Mr white but had a different front end
Yup. Y-frame with URT, then Y-frame with single pivot, then Mr White/O using the new big downtube followed by the last version using the big downtube with an extra brace/tube at the top to avoid the cracking issues they’d had
My only mountain bike is a 2000 Gringo, bought by my wife for my fortieth. Only the frame original but still very loved, as I said in the discontinued thread I was hoping to have enough from the sale of my parents house when it sells to treat myself to my first full suspension. I hope they continue in some form, local manufacturing is important for skills retention.
This is really sad news. I'm one of those 40 plus riders who had a softspot for the brand, my friend had an Orange Prestige, a pretty classy piece of kit. Recently I bought a new bike, for quite some time I really wanted an Orange stage 6 . I loved the single pivot design, simple to maintain but I could never afford the price. I went for a Specialzed Stumpjumper Comp Carbon in the end as it was a much more affordable bike. I would have loved to buy a UK made bike but I couldn't afford it. I hope they find a way through.
I was a little gutted seeing the news yesterday. When I got back into riding 13 years back friends were riding Five (all lads from Halifax or Huddersfield ) and I saved like mad to get in on these bright coloured Fives. I was lucky to buy Lesters old 26inch five in neon orange and it was brilliant but knowing now it was way to small for me . I managed to but an alpine five which was again a rocket ship well ahead of its time with geo wheelbase and big old 29er wheels .
I think the use of social media around the time of 14-15 and the problems with the frames caused damaged to their reputation and daft pricing . They seemed to me to have tomany models out there and unlike others never really out sourced meaning higher build costs . I would have liked to get back on a Neon coloured Orange in the near future I do hope something is sorted but truth be told I fear the worst for the Stainland massive.
Very sad news - my first proper 1990s mtb was an Orange and I'm still regularly riding one I bought 22 years ago as my winter ride- just bought a heap of new bits to keep it going. Good luck to all the employees. I had a look on their site last week doing imaginary shopping, and the only bike that would have suited me was just shy of 6k, so I could never dream of buying another.
I raced both a 222 & a MsIsle from 99-05 (still have the 99 MsIsle) this is really sad news, but since the handover in 2015 it’s really not a surprise the line up is just confused and over priced. Even for the die hard fans of single pivot and the brand as a whole it’s been a step too far. There are just better bikes out there for the same or in most cases a lot less money & made in Halifax just wasn’t enough to man maths the price tag. Such a shame they didn’t keep innovating it’s like they gave up after Peaty won his crown on one.
after Peaty won his crown on one.
His world championship? That was on Santa Cruz.
I meant his crowning win with orange fort bill in 2005 it was like after that they just stopped rested on the laurels peaty moved on with Santa Cruz which rocketed bringing with it the syndicate (like an orange/animal hey day beast of a team) and orange were like they had been left tinkering in the shed.
It’s OK to have pride in home grown production without being accused of having a far right small minded mindset. Making stuff here is something to be proud of, not ashamed and it isn’t easy, so anybody doing it should be applauded and supported.
Definitely this , I moved to New Zealand a year ago and I've gone from wondering how a company like Zerode survives to seeing a couple every time I go to Rotorua. Supporting local manufacturers and buying local doesn't make you a some mad right wing GB news watching Brexiteer . It's also a fairly good way of being a bit more environmentally friendly .The little England comment is rather pathetic or a troll , not sure what's worse .
I almost bought an Orange stage 5 last year but ended up with a ibis ripmo AF as it was considerably cheaper and a better spec and I suppose that's the problem, 2 aluminium full suspension MTBs and the one that's made 300 miles away is 2 grand more than the one made 5000 miles away . It shouldn't be the case but unfortunately it is .
Sad news and i hope they pull through, Always had a soft spot for them with owning a couple of Fives in the past, a clockwork and currently a Steel P7 29 ( used to be a Crush but it cracked unfortunately) which is brilliant fun.
It’s also a fairly good way of being a bit more environmentally friendly
I suppose that's possibly true. Shame about the majority of Orange bikes in that case, with them being manufactured in the far-East. That's an awful lot of carbon to offset for over 35 years.
Which is why the UK made tag is a bit misplaced; absolutely they're a British company, but look at it subjectively and it starts to seem a bit like flag waving without the facts to back it up.
I think they need to branch out a little more cut the existing lineup to types i.e. trail fs, hard tail, full-sus downhill and e-bike. They they need to embrace new technology to show they are doing something different even though they probably aren't 😉 Oh and get into gravel biking a bit more to diversify. Cycling is a fickle market and ever changing.
Damn shame all I can say though, but I hope a phoenix rises from the ashes...
BR
JeZ
Fingers crossed they can find a solution to keep people in their jobs, and to continue folding sheets of aluminium into full-sus frames in the UK.
I've had a few, currently riding a Stage Evo - all have been brilliant bikes.
I will say I've had to go secondhand to afford them, with the aspirational pricing of recent years - and I have no idea how feasible it would be to address that issue.
Which is why the UK made tag is a bit misplaced;
Back in the day though they were all hand made in Halifax. They then shifted to 'hand built' in the UK (bit patronising) but kept charging the high prices. There was lots of chat about it on here at the time.
I guess thats when they started loosing their customer base.
Bring back PACE I say (the original ones, not the ones we have now)
Back in the day though they were all hand made in Halifax.
I don't think that's correct - I'd be very surprised if my (very) early Orange turned out to be UK made, and the same for every Orange I rode in the '90s. I was always under the impression that the Clockwork, Prestige & Aluminium O (and later variants) were built overseas, and comments in this thread support that.
The top-end and race bikes may well have been Yorkshire built, but Pace they weren't.
Shame if they go I had an Original Clockwork that I had for years as my main XC bike then used it as a commuter then I got Lee Cooper cycles to convert the rear to sliding dropouts and rode it for years as a Singlespeed. Tried a P7 but never got on with it and sold it on. Personally, I never liked the looks of their full-suspension bikes.
Sorry to hear this.
As someone with a design/manufacturing/engineering background I have a certain pride in UK made products without feels too jingoistic. Whilst I test rode a couple way back, Orange has always been a brand I was glad existed but never imagined buying. I guess the problem is that an increasingly large number of people felt the same. You can't finance a company on warm thoughts alone.
The irony is that the single pivot five, built a bit burly to stand a bit of abuse and wear and tear (rather than riding like a god) is probably more appealing to me now, more than ever. It almost feels like the right recipe for someone looking to ride for fun, ride a lot and keep the cost of keeping it maintained from getting out of control....as long as it's not too expensive to buy in the first place. 1X and better shock technology should have made it more rather than less relevant.
Back in the day though they were all hand made in Halifax. They then shifted to ‘hand built’ in the UK (bit patronising) but kept charging the high prices. There was lots of chat about it on here at the time.
Completely wrong, but don't let that stop you.
Was going to say, they are still handbuilt in Halifax aren't they? The sheet metal owners do some bits and then the Holywell Green factory stick all the bits together?
For the kind of riding I do, I can't imagine a better bike than my Five Evo. Absolutely love it... Cheap they aren't but then what decent "premium" bikes are these days?
We've had a response from Orange and updated the story.
@the-muffin-man
"…to let the cycle press know before their staff is bad form." - Just wanted to clarify that bit. Orange didn't let us know anything in advance. Singletrack had other info on the goings on at Orange (Companies House etc...) but we were trying to get a confirmation from Orange before breaking the story. Unfortunately, Carlton at Forbes ran with it anyway, so we followed suit once the story was out there.
Quick edit - while I was typing this, we HAVE now had a response from Orange. It's in the updated story above.
Thanks for the update Mark.
Hopefully they can continue to trade.
Hopefully they can continue to trade.
Often the idea/point for administration, consultancy i used to word for operated in administration for just over 2 years before all sorted out and then continue after (with some selling / acquisitions etc.)
markdoyle
I really wanted an Orange stage 6 . I loved the single pivot design, simple to maintain but I could never afford the price. I went for a Specialzed Stumpjumper Comp Carbon in the end as it was a much more affordable bike.
moonsaballoon
I almost bought an Orange stage 5 last year but ended up with a ibis ripmo AF as it was considerably cheaper and a better spec
I guess that's the reality - when times are tough, and folks who actually like and want your product still end up choosing something else, then you are going to struggle.
Completely wrong, but don’t let that stop you.
Ok well tell the correct story then ?
Orange Bikes and its associated companies are currently working with Specialist Business Rescue Advisory firm J9 Advisory, with a view to restructuring the businesses in order to provide a viable platform to service our customers in the best way possible, safeguarding jobs and ensuring the continuation and strength of the Orange Bikes business moving forwards.
That's exactly the same (apparently 'morally dubious') process I was talking about. Reboot the company without any debt...
Ok well tell the correct story then ?
I did, a page or two back. Long story short, only the folded aluminium frames, from the late 90's on were hand made in the UK, all the rest, including the original Clockwork, Prestige, P7, Elite, Vitamin T, C16, O, etc, etc. have been sourced from the Far East. I can point you in the direction of an early 90's MBUK article about Orange and Pace where it's discussed if you want? The only exception I am aware of is the late 80's, very early 90's steel Formula that they got various frame builders to make to order, before Steve Wade made the last few, usually for mates.
chestrockwell
Maybe I am confusing you? When Orange started they only made the folded aluminium frames. It was an off shoot of an engineering firm where the engineers like riding bikes too so they started making their own.
The USP was they looked industrial and were hand made in Halifax. They became popular very quickly and people bought in to it as they were locally made/manufactured and were pretty unique in their day. They then introduce all the far east stuff you suggest above, and shifted production of the folded frames too, but still kept the high prices of the folded frames high but changed from 'hand made' to 'hand built' - I suppose getting a bike out of a box and putting the bas and pedals is building it. This peed alot of people off at the time.
I dont think they recovered since, also the problem of having such a unique looking USP, same with cars if too obvious it can date you.
Looking at the updated statement it doesnt look great - looking like cash flow issues. At least they are trying to sort it before administrators
Maybe I am confusing you? When Orange started they only made the folded aluminium frames. It was an off shoot of an engineering firm where the engineers like riding bikes too so they started making their own.
Its a bit off topic, seeing as we are talking about administration, but that's just not correct.
Orange were selling Far East built Clockworks from 1988/89 onwards. I remember being very jealous of a kid at school that had one while I had to make do with my specialized hardrock.
Aluminium full suspension bikes came later.
A not aluminium Orange.
Yep, wasn't the Clockwork the first Orange,and the X1 the first full suss.
Sorry @FunkyDunc but Orange were doing bikes long before the folded aluminium bikes...they didn't start with those...unsure where you have read that info but it is very wrong...
Probably a good place to leave this
I'd say I was accidentally brainwashed into wanting an Orange from an early age. I used to be a member of UYC and Lester, Wade and their families used to come down regularly and I used to see the VW camper van and all their branded logo all the time, along with seeing the bikes quite often too. As soon as I got into MTB the only bike for me was an orange and I was not disappointed whatsoever, excellent service, warranty support and I feel the price reflected the fact they were handbuilt in the UK in a town I spent a good amount of my youth growing up in. Halifax and Elland. Supporting good paying UK jobs and they were often kitted out with Hope components another local/ British company. For that reason along with the excellent spec and reviews they had I couldn't say no, yes they cost a bit more but that money goes/went into supporting the local economy. I work in the fish industry and completely advocate the same approach for sourcing British produce as it's better for both the UK economy and the quality difference is night and day.
As mentioned above however, as the bike is/was built like a tank it's still going strong and can easily get at least another 2/3 years out of it, I've had it 9 years this year and it will be passed down to my younger son to ride, once I replace it. Provided they are still going I will buy again or get a second hand one if not.
It's a brand with a great back story and fantastic history IMO which also cements part of the reasons why I choose to support them.
One thing I would also say is, from a business point of view the range is far too big and has too much crossover. Focus on your key lines and concentrate on making them be best sellers, ticking boxes to please all is both costly and poor business sense. One thing that also made them unique the colour schemes and graphics, a huge USP which since 2015 they have almost completely toned down and got rid off them. I had a neon green Alpine and wanted it resprayed on a warranty check but they discontinued that colour and neon pink which was my go to alternative. I genuinely believe quite a few people myself included were swayed by the crazy colour schemes and bold graphics. If you tie in these changes and the downturn of sales etc this seems to be perhaps a contributing factor.
Back to the range size, they really only need
1 DH bike
1trail bike - 5 with 27.5/29 option
1 enduro bike - alpine
2 hard tails models 1 aggressive & 1 trail - crush /clockwork only in 27.5/29
1 kids bike
1 commuter/hybrid
1 lightweight ebike for trail and 1 heavy weight enduro ebike.
The above covers pretty much all categories of their target audience, component choices as well are overcomplicated with too much crossover, they should have 1 budget ,1 mid and 1 high end of each, then offer a complete custom/boutique service for those who want to completely DIY on certain models. Take a look at Bird bikes I have one of their hard tails and the business model and build options they offer are brilliant and clearly works in a business semse.🤷
Just my 20P worth
Orange were selling Far East built Clockworks from 1988/89 onwards. I remember being very jealous of a kid at school that had one while I had to make do with my specialized hardrock
A guy in the year above me at school (early/mid 90's) had a steel Clockwork. It was far and away the nicest bike in the school bike parking!
I had a steel Saracen...
But yes, those steel hardtails were the original Orange bikes; the full sus "sheet metal" stuff began in about 1998/99.
1 DH bike
1trail bike – 5 with 27.5/29 option
1 enduro bike – alpine
2 hard tails models 1 aggressive & 1 trail – crush /clockwork only in 27.5/29
1 kids bike
1 commuter/hybrid
1 lightweight ebike for trail and 1 heavy weight enduro ebike.
Not even sure the range needs to be this big.
DH bikes - how many people buy DH frames/bikes anymore? Think I'd be tempted to pull the plug (even if temporarily) on the big bikes and focus on the core range.
1 trail - yep.
1 "enduro" - yep.
Hardtails - yep, 1 trail/general all rounder and one at the more extreme end of the scale.
Kids bikes - sack those off. The number of people wanting to buy their rapidly growing offspring a £1000+ bike must be pretty small.
Hybrid/commuter bikes - sack those off as well.
Include a gravel bike for those who are that way inclined.
E-bikes - whatever people want here, big one and a less big one for people who can't be arsed to pedal.
6/7 core range of no-nonsense premium bikes that if you're focusing on a smaller range, should (maybe) mean you're able to reduce costs to build and pass some of that cost save onto the consumer.
Oh and whilst I'm at it, stick stupid gimmicks like bike gloveboxes where the sun don't shine. Give people a free bum bag or something instead.