New Cotic Rocket is a steel frame ebike with external battery

It's not a looker with that battery, but having read the full article (the 'development history') and the rationale behind it all I get the reasons why. It's going to split opinion for sure.

The thought of a full-power e-bike that weighs <22kg, in the XL/C5 size I need, with geometry I know works for me, from a company I like...

The rocker link setup, I think looks much nicer than the droplink. However to counter that, the battery looks like it's off a carrera, with it's 'roofbox' styling.

You would have to be very "function over form" to buy that. I'm a huge cotic fanboi (currently on a Jeht) but i really cant see them selling many of these.

Plus with the industry focusing so much on getting the weight down on ebikes, is steel really the best choice???

It looks great for an ebike...aside the battery but it obviously needs one so kind of stuck with that. Either design the battery so it blends in more or some sort of custom frame bag that effectively incorporates the battery in it and hides it away whilst also adding some storage around it

I'm more offended by the saddle on the orange bike than the battery.

But it's an original 90s Flite!

@blackflag It's 2kg lighter than the aluminium prototypes we had built. 21.5kg for a full power bike ain't exactly heavy!

Are there any options for a colour-matched battery, @cy? 🙂

@blackflagIt’s 2kg lighter than the aluminium prototypes we had built. 21.5kg for a full power bike ain’t exactly heavy!

that is good going, but thats not with a full fat battery.

@chipps - yes, if you want a black frame 😀

I always laugh when I read "hand built" in marketing materials. What, they don't have any tools in their workshop? How can it have CNC machined parts if it's "100% hand built?"

@chipps We tried that. Looked weird, but I'm sure we can paint things if people want them 😉

@nuke Thanks

Holy mackerel!

I think I may have seen someone testing the rhubarb bike around blacka moor. Probably a few years ago now.

If it wasn't that it was some other cotic prototype with a wacky paint job.

@blackflag 22kg with 630Wh. Or just hot swap the small batteries if you have a couple of them.

I do like the development story, that it's built in the UK and that the battery, being black, seems to disappear in the ride pics.. Not so keen that it looks like a 5 year old Haibike but the reasons behind that are very valid.

Any idea why the internal batteries are heavier than the externals? It's very counter intuitive given the externals need to be self supporting and have structural mounting points on one side only.

Hope you sell a decent amount Cy. Thumbs up emoji. ;o)

Hot swapping batteries sounds great but how much are the additional batteries? If it's anything like range extender pricing then you're going to be looking at £500 for the small one and maybe £800 for the big. It's a lot to drop on a spare/different ride option.

Any idea why the internal batteries are heavier than the externals?

It's probably not the battery itself which is heavier but the cavernous tube which is needed to contain them.

I trust Si to know what he's doing when it comes to handling, but surprised the battery being where it is doesn't upset things. Integrating battery into the downtube puts the weight a lot lower.  A friend with an Orbea Wild which has that type of battery as the piggy back for an internal (but can be run with just the piggy back and an empty downtube) says the handling was noticeably worse when it was fitted.

Shimano external batteries are quite a bit lighter than the internal ones for some reason

That is odd. I wonder if it's that internal batteries can be used as structural element or that they need more heat management/heat-sink "stuff" as they're going to be trapped inside a tube

I like that bike and the rationale behind an external battery, I’ve always thought enclosed, non removable batteries a bad idea. I don’t like the new phrase that appeared along with the bike “hot swap”, it sets my jargon klaxon going like for “cockpit, mid-stroke support, full fat” etc!

@mrhoppy

Quick Google suggests £550 for the big one before any shopping around.

https://www.singletrackbikes.co.uk/m7b619s536p84530/Shimano_STEPS_BT-E8016_STEPS_battery_630_Wh_frame_down_tube_mount_black_/Electric_Drive/RS_GB/199912?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwveK4BhD4ARIsAKy6pMIXWkq0gtiNxu1WsnzQGMG4YqUqcL0tK_sX55darRipoMW_uj5OhQsaApdsEALw_wcB

Big respect to Cotic for doing something different.

Very difficult to get around the battery being fugly. Could you perhaps use two of the bottle-style ones with one under the top tube?

Pretty sure my Wild fs weighs more than that.

I'm not able to drop that kind of money on a new eeb any time soon but I think it's great that Cotic are doing something a bit different.

I miss my Rocket 275 that had to go to make way for the Wild (that I rarely ride)

The external battery is totally acceptable in order to achieve a steel framed eeb, IMO.

But as I said on the other (closed) thread, the pricing is pretty steep and the frame-only pricing is actually shocking.

And with Shimano seeming a bit unreliable and lagging on performance... hmmm.

My wife has an alu framed ebike from another company, complete with 650wh battery.
It’s a hard tail, and weighs around 23kg.
So a steel fs bike at 22kg doesn’t seem too bad to me.

@b33k34 The battery weight being concentrated in a single place seems to the thing you notice. The 418Wh battery makes the bike feel very "normal". No runaway train feeling, normal braking points etc. Just adding 0.7kg for the 630Wh definitely gives it a more 'ebike' feel, although nothing like the 24-25kg previous prototypes we had. Your friend adding the extra range extender is probably just feeling the extra weight rather than where it is. Plus, although a little lower if it was internal, it is much further forward, so you feel that mass much more acutely when trying to turn. It's why I went mullet on the bike, as it made the black prototypes (with internal batteries) turn much more easily. The Rocket is much more wieldy, but still likes the mullet setup for turn in.

@sharkattack No idea why they're so different, but the 630Wh external is 0.5kg lighter than the internal one we have. Weighed on our scales. The internal ones aren't structural. They're specifically designed not to be. They have a mounting rail that you have to set to stop them moving around.

Absolutely gopping. Quite like the layout apart from the battery and motor - like a modern, steel Turner Burner...

Just like normal (well, full fat and not Haibike) ebikes, I bet you get over the appearance pretty quick when you see it in the flesh. And ride it of course.

Damn expensive though

I actually really like this, good on Cy & Cotic! I think the form-follows-function industrial vibes we generally get from Cotic suits this and plays well into the steel ethos. They don't make  big beautiful hydrofrmed ali or autoclaved carbon aeronautical designs, but rather simple steel triangles (which I love).  I've had 5 Cotics and still have one. In fact I'm still hovering over the buy button on a FlareMax.

I just don't understand the price..

The builds are pretty much identical, but the E version is £3275 more..
> Motor: £725
> Battery: £500
> Loom & Display: £300
= £1,525

What's the remaining £1700 for?
I guess some additional machining for the CNCd motor mounts  & battery holder?
Is it a mark-up to cover R&D costs or the future warranty issues for the motor?

I also don't get the name. The Rocket is their original rowdy FS, that's changed into the MAX with 29". Going back to Rocket is confusing I think. It would benefit from a new name to denote the e-line up.

I like the look compared to a aluminium frame with a huge down tube.

Once I'd read the reasoning for the layout it makes sense.

There's a lot of cost, despite the somewhat budget look - all UK production won't make it cheap.

• Five Land Bikes do the steel fabrication. Matt and Callum are quite simply some of the best steel welders we have ever seen. The paint finish is unsurpassed and they have been bringing the small scale production expertise to Cotic suspension bikes since 2018.
• Coal Bikes do the aluminium fabrication and are a key local Cotic partner, with Gavin having huge experience welding all types of material. When he's not making swingarms for the Rocket he makes our Escapade UK853 gravel bike frames.
• Reynolds Technology in Birmingham supply the Cotic exclusive shaped top and seat tubes in their top spec 853 material. It's some of the best steel available, with over 100 years of heritage behind it. Cotic's have always used 853 tubes in some way, shape or form, and these Cotic exclusive tubes for the Rocket are the fruits of a long and successful partnership.
• Rideworks do all the CNC machined parts for the rocker and swingarm. Paul and his team do their work with incredible precision and diligence.
• 76 Projects are our 3D printing partner, helping us with the custom motor cover and cable management parts. Rob's been instrumental in helping us realise the parts we need to bring the level of detail we wanted for the Rocket.
• Bear Frame Supplies are also local friends, based in the heart of the Peak District. Aaron makes the turned parts such as pivot bosses and axles that are key to the precise fit of all the moving parts of the frame.
• Black Cat Custom Paint do all the A La Carte custom painting. Stu finishes frames to an incredible standard, so if you want to individualise your Rocket even further, he will be bringing your dream to life.

how about a "universal" mount with adaptor plates for different motors ?
(I have no idea who else makes suitable systems for bolting on but, you know...)

Yes that's a lot of sub-contract manufacturing or the components required to make the frame and if everyone is adding profit and low volume mark ups to that then it's going to get expensive. The good thing is that this looks like a made to order kind of thing so Cy can do that.  I hope they do well.

Has made me rethink my idea of getting the Nicolai MGU though (at some point in the future) as that's something like 27kgs . . .

I like it. Like how it's made too.

Always wondered why more E-MTBs aren't this format. Integrating the battery might look smooth but there's a whole load of reasons not to bother (which I expect Cotic have covered in the launch). 'But fashion'.

Is it just me, or is the black prototype the best looking bike up there, nothing like a Cotic though,

@cokie You've undercooked the drive system price a little, but I see your point. The main difference is that a droplink rear end is made in Taiwan, whereas the entire Rocket frame down to the cable guides is UK made, and in the case of some of the rear end parts, considerably more complex to machine than a regular Rocket. Add in all the motor yoke parts and fabrication, and that is where the price difference comes in. It takes nearly as long to weld the yoke on it's own than an entire droplink front end. It saves nearly 1kg compared to the horrid cast off the shelf yoke, so I felt it was worth it. Hopefully some others do too.

@jameso Thanks.

If motors and battery mounts were more closely related that would be great, but unfortunately not the case. Could do with the EU giving all these suppliers a kick and making them agree a universal mounting standard.

@cy have you spoken to DJi at all, no one want a shimano motor (though I understand the rational).

I think the bike looks great, too many bikes with fat downtubes, trying to hide batteries & making them impossible to remove

@z1ppy We haven't spoken to any other motor suppliers for a couple of years since we committed to Shimano. We haven't had any problems with our Shimano stuff, and the EP801 motors are a totally different beast to the EP8 motors that used to cause some trouble for some users. Although we haven't had any problems with the EP8 motors we have had for nearly 4 years either. I think a lot of these big swoppy carbon things enclose the motor so much that if any water or muck does get in it sits there causing trouble. My mate has a Santa Cruz and they as good as told him that trapped moisture gets boiled by the hot motor and fritzes it. Even though the power cable is properly sealed by our motor cover, water and muck can drain out of ours. We wouldn't have used Shimano if we didn't think it was up to the job.

People may object to the battery placement, or the external cable guides, or something else. But I know that Cy and the Cotic team will have put design effort into every bit of that bike with a view of it being usable, maintainable and rides superbly in British conditions by the average bike rider. They won't put in integrated hidden cables just because it look pretty but you have to bleed your brakes every time you want to change your stem.  I would much prefer a bike that is functional and rides well to one that just looks pretty - and we know that skinny steel tubes just look right.

They are supporting British manufacturing - this has to be a good thing.

Best of luck to them.

@StuF Thank you

I'm not looking for an ebike in the forseeable future, but I appreciate how Cy has explained the reasoning behind the design, and has come on here to a partly sceptical audience to address specific questions and concerns. It's all very interesting to see behind the curtain like this!

fairy muff, personnally no one I know (e-bike owners) would ever spend money on a shimano powered bike. Even brose has a better rep, go on throw an email at DJI... everyone wants one of them

fairy muff, personnally no one I know (e-bike owners) would ever spend money on a shimano powered bike.

So you know no one with an Orbea (Rise) or a Vitus or a...?

fairy muff, personnally no one I know (e-bike owners) would ever spend money on a shimano powered bike. Even brose has a better rep, go on throw an email at DJI… everyone wants one of them

Only if they do them with Lewis brakes.

I couldn't begin to afford this, nice as it is, but I think the best part of all, is that you are all able to interact with the owner of the company directly on here. It's very refreshing 🙂

So you know no one with an Orbea (Rise)

Waves.

Is there going to be a C1 ( or smaller) version?

Yes. Only three sizes of these final prototypes were made, as that’s what the COTIC peeps ride, but all 5 sizes for production. C1 being made. Size charts and geom tables on the COTIC website.

I’ve not ridden one yet. I’m C3 which happens to also fit interested journalists, so not had a chance.

Gone a bit mad with the finish options… going to be a choice of the three best colours COTIC have ever done (in my entirely biased opinion) or can pay £50 more to get any of the other UK colours. See the colour chart on the product page (in the a la cart colour tab).

There is probably an ebike in my future. Is this it? I’m not sure, but it’s hard to argue that extra choice is a bad thing. This really is choice, not clone. I’m certainly not put off by the weight or looks. The idea of a removable battery makes total sense to me, Particularly if they are a standard battery. That opens up flying with the bike and renting a battery on arrival. It would make life so much easier away from home in the uk just needing to get the battery to a socket

Here’s a genuine question. If i bought a standard Cotic bike i wouldn’t be researching the warranty. I’d assume that chances of the frame having a fault would be small and if it did I’d put up with a return of the bike or frame to Cotic.

With an ebike I’ll be a bit more cautious. Because the risks and complexity are greater. So if i buy a cotic ebike and there electrical issues will i be able to use a local Shimano service centre for support?

Congratulations, Cy and team. To my eye,  that’s a good looking bike.

I find the external battery no more offensive than a frame bag or loaded up accessory mount and the benefits brought by having it out in the open bring some useful versatility to the bike.

Would there be a possibility of using this layout for a lighter version that you could use as a normal bike ?

Use a fauza motor or the one that the trek sl uses and then you could whip the battery off and have 2 bikes in one .

I think the whole this is what we want so this is what it needs to look like design ethos is great . You might not like the outcome but every decision can be justified and I bet it looks better in real rather than just photos .

Having seen them in the metal a few times over the last couple of months when visiting the warehouse, visually the battery gets lost very easily against any kind of background clutter - the bulbous gubbins round the BB is more of a giveaway that its an eeb.

Personally I'm more excited to see what that suspension design looks like on a proper bike without all the ebollocks getting in the way - I think that's going to make for a very, very, pretty bicycle.

Cotic have put out a little video of them riding the prototypes - I can’t figure out how to embed it but it’s over here on the product page: https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/rocket#video

With someone on the bike the battery almost vanishes amongst the legs and kneepads that are constantly either side of it.

Even without someone on the bike, the more you see it the more innocuous the battery lump looks, like getting used to MTBs having bottles again. Obviously it’s not for everyone aesthetically but it’s a steel full-sus, and they’ve never been a mass market thing.

My old (gen 2) alloy Levo has a similar build kit and travel (nothing carbon, Lyriks, etc) to the base model Rocket and a 500Whr battery and it weighs bang on 24kg. Recently I’ve ridden it without the battery, which takes it down to 21kg and it’s quite a lot spritelier feeling in terms of handling (but harder work/slower uphill!)

Personally I’m more excited to see what that suspension design looks like on a proper bike without all the ebollocks getting in the way

Looks pretty similar to a Swarf Contour.

I don't mind the look if it as you don't really see the battery and just see a steel framed full suss bike, unlike most ebikes that have massive fat down tubes.

Unfortunately it's stupidly expensive. British made or not that's silly money.

To be fair the battery looks no worse than a rear mudguard and plenty of people run those with no shame.

That's nice.....I think. It's taking a tiny bit to get my head around the battery - I think it's just that early ebikes had an external battery, then they got all svelte and integrated so this initially looks like a retrograde step. Then you think about it some more and especially when you think about different batteries and it makes sense again.

Sadly, it's all just theoretical as I'll never be in a position to afford that sort of money even when the time comes when I consider an eMTB. But then again when I last bought a proper bike I had to back out my desire for a Cotic and settle for a Bird because of $$$. I hope there is a market who can justify this much on a toy.....with looks that won't wow their non biking mates. Not that that should be a factor, though I suspect it sometimes is.

I love the background stuff, and I see teh rationale, but the looks would just put that right off my shopping list, if it weren't for the price already doing that. I mean, I loved how my rocketmax looked, and my Solaris, and my Soda, I did NOT love how my Hemlock looked it looked like one of those wooden swingbridges they have in France, but I did love my Soul and my other Soul and my other Soul. But this, no. I think the steel looks and the ebike battery are just basically incompatible and this is probably about the best it can be, and still orrible.

I'm certain it'll ride brilliant. But other bikes ride brilliant too.

The silhouette reminds me of the Swarf Contour which was a beautiful looking bike. I'd be interested in a normal/not ebike version if I had the cash. I have an ebike for commuting but still prefer a normal bike for fun time.

Once I got over the 'looks like a conversion' thing the design has grown on me, the pictures of it being ridden the battery gets lost and the frane looks quiet elegant. Somehow we've normalised the mahoosive fugly downtubes on most ebikes so it's good to see something different.

Me this lunchtime when I first saw it: OMG what on earth were they thinking.

Me this evening: I'd love this bike for the outrage it's causing alone, both today and in future if anyone spotted me riding it.

The only things that kill it for me are price, Shimano motor, and no room for water bottle inside the front triangle on the smaller sizes.

So you know no one with an Orbea (Rise) or a Vitus or a…?

I know someone with a Vitus. I believe the warranty been useful (at least twice).

As I've mentioned on a FB page, it will be very interesting to try one and see if it rides like an mtb with assistance when needed or like my Giant E Trance which is awesome fun but rides like a downsized lighter, pedal-able Trailbike that will just plough through whatever scenery I throw it at. Once you see the ERocket in the flesh and get over the hunk of battery sat there, it is actually a work of art, that should be an absolute hoot to ride. Very eager to have a blast on a C1.

Chapeau folks.

I used to own a Shimano motor and now I have a Bosch.

IMO there's not much in it. Neither are fixable or maintainable anymore. Both use closed systems so you have to visit a dealer to do most things (e.g. fit a different sized chainring, find out what the error message means).

Tbh once a motor is out of warranty, just send it up to Emotor repairs in Barrow in Furness and let them work their magic on it.

No idea why they’re so different, but the 630Wh external is 0.5kg lighter than the internal one we have.

@Cy - Maybe its due to heat dissipation

When (or IF) this MGU ever comes to market it could be in an interesting option. Mounting pattern is Shimano EP8, which (I think) is the same as the new 801?
UK developed...... They have been running an Orange as a test bike......

https://www.intra-drive.com/product_EMTB/

fazzini Full Member
I couldn’t begin to afford this, nice as it is, but I think the best part of all, is that you are all able to interact with the owner of the company directly on here. It’s very refreshing

Back in the day it was easier to find a thread that had Brant on it than one that didn't. 🙂

I like it, I think the attempt to try to make E-bikes look like normal bikes by making the downtube a bit fatter makes them look heavy to my mind. At least this doesn't try to hide what it is, plus it kinda looks like a big waterbottle anyway.

Both use closed systems so you have to visit a dealer to do most things (e.g. fit a different sized chainring, find out what the error message means).

Really?  Shimano owner here - chainring needs a tool (the same one that fits rings to Shimano's XT cranks now) but a different chainring would not require any software changes.

The Shimano mobile phone app gives end use the error codes which you can find  on the Shimano site.  Many of the error codes are pretty useless - there are multiple codes that are just described as 'sensor abnormality in drive unit' without telling you 'WHICH' sensor is giving an issue.  Some are more useful - eg speed sensor issue.   The dealers don't actually get any more info connecting it to their computer than you can get yourself.

The more I look at this, the more I like how it looks! It's really not that different to an enduro race bike with everything strapped onto the frame, and then the look of a gearbox where the motor is.

I kind of like it. The bit where people are criticising the aesthetics is mildly hilarious given that the average e-mtb looks like the cycling equivalent of an anaconda that's inadvertently swallowed a small water buffalo.

No Guy Kesteven links yet?

Although he does remind a bit of the guy from the fast show who thinks everything is 'brilliant!'

No Guy Kesteven links yet?

Not really any point when you already know the outcome.

24hrs later I think the best word for this is "jarring". I'm sure it'll work well, and the setup will appeal to a certain crowd, but it's a real surprise to see a bolt on battery come back on an expensive frame. Especially, and this certainly isn't Cotic's fault, the battery cover just looks cheap.

Looks and cost aside, I like it. But my opinion on this bike is about as relevant as my opinion on the latest Ferrari, as I can't afford one of them either (can replace Ferrari with most sporty cars to be honest).

Had 24 hours to ponder this and still think it looks awful! E-bikes are ugly and this is an ugly E-Bike that looks like something you'd find in Halfords or Decathlon. Always amusing to see the lengths that STW members go to to defend Cotic's honour though 😉

Sure it'll ride well though.

Although he does remind a bit of the guy from the fast show who thinks everything is ‘brilliant!’

Well if he ever criticised anything his YouTube gravy train would come off the rails. His videos are alright if you want a close look at a new bike but they're worthless as actual reviews.

I like its direction, personally I’d never buy a bike with a fixed battery (hotels, holidays and poss winter storage), so external seem sensible to me, as does different size batteries and esp rucksack sized spares, I think headset cabling and internal cabling is something that suits designers more than owners however weight is a problem and for me so is the Shimano motor (based on my personal experiences) , let’s see who brings out what next.