Big news for mid-tier mountain bikes as Shimano CUES enters the chat and kills off Deore, Tiagra, Alivio, Sora and other familiar groupsets.
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By ben_haworth
Get the full story here:
https://singletrackmag.com/2023/02/goodbye-deore-hello-shimano-cues/
Will it be backward compatible with old shimano 11 speed stuff? assuming that the cassette spacing, cable pull etc are matched to the requirements of the most number of sprockets on offer and that current shimano 11 speed is the optimum spacing for that many sprockets?
Although 'With taller and thicker cassette teeth.”
may mean Cues chains are needed for the cassettes?
So will, for example, 11spd road STIs work with MTB mechs? If so, this will be great for reducing all of the different lower end and OEM kit they have to produce.
So Shimano had cross compatibility between MTB and Road shifting for years, then designed it out about a decade ago and now they're reintroducing it...
What's missing from all of those beauty shots is a Drop bar lever with Hydraulic brake callipers connected, I'd be interested in lower-mid tier stuff like this for Gravel bikes, assuming they're not going to start splitting it down into MTB/Road siloed compatibility at a later date...
will, for example, 11spd road STIs work with MTB mechs?
That was my first thought too. Could be ideal for gravel bikes, drop-barred MTBs, hybrids and so on.
Is this brilliant news for making drop bar monster cross bikes... mixing MTB drive with road drop bar shifters?
I like a 9 or 10sp wide range gear option.
We’re still finding out more about CUES (including UK prices and what, if any, cross compatibility with 12-speed stuff there is) and hope to bring you some more info – and real-world photos of the U600 stuff – very shortly.
Deore +30% I bet.
And… cartridge bearings!
Anyone hoping for some 'trickle up' from CUES?
Looks like a step in the right direction for making affordable group sets again.
On the MTB side it absolutely makes sense, there's been less and less between Deore/SLX/XT over the last few iterations, and the differences sometimes didn't even make sense. Presumably this'll mean SLX drops down slightly to fill the gap and XT will actually be an upgrade rather than just feeling like a few hundred quid upcharge for a more silvery finish,
But, it leaves a massive gap on the road side. If 105 is Di2 only, and this is going to be on the heavy side of things. It doesn't even leave a mix-and-match option of a 12s, disk braked, mechanically shifted drop bar groupset. I'd kind of hoped they'd at least add an extra click to some old 105 STI's and make a Tiagra 12s disk groupset.
I wonder if we'll see a rise in manufacturers specifying Microshift or Sensah as a result? The Sensah Empire Pro groupset in particular looks really appealing in conjunction with some Juin-tec/ZTTO calipers.
Anyone hoping for some ‘trickle up’ from CUES?
Not really, the current C&C hubs are really well made and sealed. If your last experience of them was the old XT M756 hubs then while those needed rebuilding every 6-months with those cone shaped seals that got torn up on the spacer washers, the new ones are a whole different animal with propper seals.
The only caveat is you really have to service them before they need it. It's not like cartridge's where you can run them until there's play, they need a service as soon as the axle feels a little grumbly (or sooner / annualy with fresh seals).
Wasn't the ebike XT Linkglide crazy heavy when it was released?
I'm confused. A bit. I read about this somewhere else and assumed this replaced all the previous lower end group sets and Linkglide with Linkglide widths/pull ratios etc etc and now called CUES
But this para suggests something different Or does Linkglide just refer to the cassettes?
"Although closely allied to CUES, and definitely relevant, Linkglide stuff will not have the same series numbers as CUES stuff. Linkglide items are all prefixed with LG (LG700, LG400, LG300 and so on)."
From memory Linkglide 'groupsets' were/are not compatible with existing 11spd (I don't think I've yet met anyone who's ridden it - didn't it launch in covid with some massive lead time?).
Also puzzled by
At this point we think it’s worth pointing out that Linkglide offers the smoothest shifting of ANY Shimano groupset, XTR/Dura Ace including.
I thought the takeaway when it was launched was that Linkglide was tougher but at the expense of slower, clunkier?, shifting - ie 'not as good as hyperglide'.
Is this like GRX, where there may be one “groupset” name… but in reality there’s a whole series of different ones that result in confusion rather than clarity…? I suppose the Deore had already become a bit like that, coming in different “number of gears” options. I’m not sure it helps the rider or shops when it comes to spares.
That's how I see it Kelvin.
Re Linkglide
Is that not a 'heavy duty' chain,cassette and chainrings? It's not a groupset..?
I might be wrong but my take is that it's just budget linkglide compatible stuff, isn't the linkglide 11sp shifter incompatible with everything else therefore making SLX and above and older stuff a total seperation from the new stuff.
Cues is a terrible name, this is the killing of the sacred deer, or should that be off.
I wonder what new Saint stuff is gonna be compatible with.
I think this all looks like good news for affordable MTB and possibly road and gravel.
Hopefully Joe Public will get that solid shimano 11 speed makes more sense that 12 speed sram sx
Cartridge bearings could be a huge change. If the hubs and wheels stay at reasonable prices then they could become the norm on so many factory builds
11-46 9 speed?
Yes please.
I think the point in having it all under one umbrella is that one mech does everything, now we just need to find out what the actual pull ratio is.
I think the point in having it all under one umbrella is that one mech does everything, now we just need to find out what the actual pull ratio is.
Fair point. Currently shimano road and gravel 10 and 11 speed is all one pull ratio. Which does make shopping for but easier
Maybe Shimano have recognized there's a big market for affordable & durable components now a lot of us aren't able to splash the cash anywhere near so freely any more. I always used to buy Deore XT/SLX 9spd derailleurs from CRC. Smashed the last one up with a shopping trolley strike and replacement options boiled down to a well-used Deore XT 9spd or shiny new Alivo M3100. Opted for the shiny new Alivo but have been completely underwhelmed by it's performance.
Also wonder how many mountain bikes really need such big gearing. 11-46 is much more than I need for my doorstep riding, and would be fine for a half day out taking the bike in the car somewhere.
Hopefully they won't be made of plastic like the Alivo.
Also wonder how many mountain bikes really need such big gearing. 11-46 is much more than I need for my doorstep riding, and would be fine for a half day out taking the bike in the car somewhere.
It doesn't, but since people are completely incapable of getting their heads round triple or even double ring setups which are already completely impossible to set up without the relevant HND then I guess we're stuck with them.
Ebike ready out the box. Sounds great. Awaiting more info, especially pull ratios.
Oh dear. My four 9 speed bikes are now even more obsolete. Luckily chains and cassettes are still easy to find and I have a few derailleurs on the shelf in the shed.
It doesn’t, but since people are completely incapable of getting their heads round triple or even double ring setups which are already completely impossible to set up without the relevant HND then I guess we’re stuck with them.
I was just pondering really. Can't imagine I'm the only person in the world whose preference is to ride mountain bikes despite the local terrain not requiring a bike equipped with sprockets big enough to roast a turkey on!
Currently shimano road and gravel 10 and 11 speed is all one pull ratio
Yep, which leaves sora and claris as outliers and a great deal of confusion for people maintaining older ten speed groupsets. Unified compatibility is a good thing but what's the betting there's no backwards compatibility with anything current?
I think the point in having it all under one umbrella is that one mech does everything
That made sense. So I looked… and there are Cue derailleurs galore: with clutch, without, 9, 10, 11 speed, cable, di2… all look to be GS though (makes sense with no front mechs). All use the same chain width, so that’s one spare shared.
I was just pondering really. Can’t imagine I’m the only person in the world whose preference is to ride mountain bikes despite the local terrain not requiring a bike equipped with sprockets big enough to roast a turkey on!
Oh I completely agree, I'm pretty sure the old "weight saving" argument has more than been blown out the water by this point. I'm probably wrong though.
What I definitely know is I don't like more dead weight in my back wheel.
My understanding is that all the LinkGlide stuff (including CUES) is designed for slower but smoother shifting and higher durability. The pull ratio is unique to LinkGlide but the same across 9, 10 and 11 speed so their 11 speed shifter can operate all the mechs.
I’ve had XT LinkGlide on my Levo for less than a week. It looks solid AF. It does shift more smoothly especially under load but it doesn’t slam from gear to gear as fast, especially if you’re on the furthest part of the sprocket from a ramp. Having destroyed so many HyperGlide cassettes I’m hopeful that the durablility claims will be true!
I haven’t noticed the extra weight of the cassette when riding and generally I’m an annoyingly hypersensitive fussy rider. Maybe it would be more obvious with smaller tyres and less travel and less frame mass?
it pains me to say this, and sorry, but I really really had trouble following the write up (I'm not up to date on groupset technology) .
Skipped over to another website, and it's far more logically laid out and makes sense.
Seems that Deore 12 speed is carrying on as well, and drop bar shifters at least a season or two away.
I’ve had XT LinkGlide on my Levo for less than a week.
are you using linkglide shifter and derailleur with this?
as for bringing back front mechs to all bikes, single ring drivetrains have made packaging full suspension gubbins much easier.
i’d really like an 11-50 9speed cassette so that the chainline wouldn’t be so brutal when climbing steep hills. for the riding i mostly do, i don’t need closely spaced gears.
Yeah the reporting here is a bit chewy. I didn't see a release date either, or was that me getting lost in the words? Bens stuff is normally really good so I guess that was because of the Shimano presentation
Good to see 24mm crank axles are staying. That "standard" must be nearly 20 years old. Shows how well they nailed that design then.
I would love a Shimano 8 or 9 speed based on Microspline so 10-50 range, narrower cassette so less chain wear.
“are you using linkglide shifter and derailleur with this?”
Yes, full LinkGlide XT bar the chainring which is a Burgtec steel narrow-wide.
I’ve now got a GX Eagle drivetrain spare as my hardtail is now singlespeed, and an XT 11s mech, shifter and cassette(s?) from the Levo, so I guess that’s the kids’ future gears sorted!
Yes, full LinkGlide XT bar the chainring which is a Burgtec steel narrow-wide.
thanks.
I would love a Shimano 8 or 9 speed based on Microspline so 10-50 range, narrower cassette so less chain wear.
if i had microspline rather than HG this is what i would be after. i suppose with HG i could move a couple of sprockets and spacers behind the low gear and get myself the 9 speed if my dreams.
Looks great. My only question is when they're going to apply similar levels of common sense and interoperability to their expensive groupsets?
If 105 is Di2 only
Tell me it ain't so...
You've got to be shitting me. Is this actually the case?
Here's Russ reading a website and speculating a bit it's a reasonable summary of the announcement:
if i had microspline rather than HG this is what i would be after. i suppose with HG i could move a couple of sprockets and spacers behind the low gear and get myself the 9 speed if my dreams.
Yeah I only use Hope hubs across all my bikes so Microglide freehubs are feasible
Thanks scotroutes. There’s probably long cage mechs to go with them as well.
My own take is that 'CUES' isn't prompted by some deep humanitarian desire to cater for the masses, it's shimano finally recognising the importance that "entry level" bikes are going to have for OEMs over the next few years while the global economy shits itself. And that if they can flog them more common componentry they might stop SRAM and Microshift taking up so much of that (already quite valuable and likely to grow) affordable bikes market segment.
They're also probably well aware of all the Chinese "Groupsets" popping up. If anyone else's YT feed is like mine you've probably seen a few long-form videos from Trace Velo, Francis Cade and China cycling showcasing 'L-Twoo' and 'Empire' drivetrain stuff, lots of click-baity titles like "105 killer" and plenty of comparable weights but there always seem to be a couple of minor caveats, the trouble is they could easily get their shit together in the next 6-12 months and deliver viable kit to squash the existing market players including shimano.
The things that concern me about this press blurb are the bits that are not actually being put on show or really elaborated on, they've mentioned drop bar levers, but I don't see any pictures, and they've mentioned a common cable pull ratio but not said if it's going to be aligned to current MTB, Current Road or indeed some other random ratio to prevent backwards compatibility (probably the last option IMO).
The thing is when you strip away all the fluff what's actually on offer isn't really that new it's not "one groupset" it's three tiers depending on how many clicks you want (9/10/11), so still 3 groupsets but with the same name (which they already basically offer under Deore; 10/11/12 speed) but at a better price point (and probably a few extra grams). They've twigged that not everyone is impressed by "moar gearz" and I think the sweet spot is going to be 10 or 11 speed for lots of punters.
But they really need to get a hydraulically braked, drop-bar lever option out for it fast, SRAM already have that on offer for Apex and could probably slot in another tier below if they wanted, Microshift have cable flat and drop bar shifting options with Advent/Advent X but only with mechanical braking again there's only one element really missing from that product range that could see them score more sales.
Having made this announcement if Shimano then move at their normal pace slotting that piece of the puzzle in they could well lose to their competition yet again.
To be clear I want to be able to buy what their claiming they'll offer i.e. an affordable, cross compatible 9/10/11 speed flat/drop bar set of parts so I can bung the same stuff on Gravel/CX/MTB/hybrid bike and not have to fret about finding equivalent replacements in a few years, I'm just not sure they're actually there yet, simply making the right sort of sounds...
If 105 is Di2 only
Tell me it ain’t so…
You’ve got to be shitting me. Is this actually the case
105 won't be Di2 only - its going 12 speed mechanical according to accidentally released info: https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shimano-105-12-speed-mechanical/
I'm not taking any chances though - it's time to stock up on 11 speed 105.
All CUES shifters will actually pull the same amount of cable per actuation; it’s just that the 11-speed shifter will have 11 clicks, the 10 has 10 clicks and the 9 has 9 clicks.
If I'm understanding this correctly, the derailleurs will be the same and the shifters will pull the same amount of cable. That would mean that a 9-speed cassette is just an 11-speed cassette with two fewer sprockets and a narrower overall width. That would mean that CUES 9-speed is not backwards compatible with legacy 9-speed because the cassette spacing is different, the derailleurs are different, and the cable pull is different.
If the CUES 9-speed cassettes are compatible with legacy 9-speed cassettes, then they would need a different derailleur pull ratio than 10 or 11-speed CUES, which would make no sense. So, Shimano have just dropped the legacy stuff and rationalized their drivetrains by removing sprockets from the 11-speed cassettes to create 8, 9, or 10-speed drivetrains, along with shifters that have fewer clicks. Is that correct?
“ So, Shimano have just dropped the legacy stuff and rationalized their drivetrains by removing sprockets from the 11-speed cassettes to create 8, 9, or 10-speed drivetrains, along with shifters that have fewer clicks. Is that correct?”
Yes.
If that is true, then it would be reasonable to think that SRAM mtb 11 and 12 speed mechs and shifters could also be mixed and matched on cues cassettes, should you wish.
If I’m understanding this correctly, the derailleurs will be the same and the shifters will pull the same amount of cable. That would mean that a 9-speed cassette is just an 11-speed cassette with two fewer sprockets and a narrower overall width. That would mean that CUES 9-speed is not backwards compatible with legacy 9-speed because the cassette spacing is different, the derailleurs are different, and the cable pull is different.
I don't think you are. Derailleurs will be different to move a different distance depending on speed, but for the same cable pull per click from the shifter.
This is groupset designed to stop Shimano haemorrhaging money to SRAM in the OEM market*. Why would they bother making it backwards compatable with years-out-of-date product that they no longer want to sell? Makes zero commercial sense.
Here's one name groupset for all your below premium bikes; you can spec however many gears you want, mix and match and it will all work together, even e-bikes.
Perfect for someone (me) who maintains bikes for someone at work who is mechanically challenged. I will be suggesting a gear group upgrade when the derailleurs next die.
There’s a couple of good articles on CUES and LinkGlide on NSMB. The cassette spacing and cable pull is the same on all the speeds, the mech just moves farther to cover the wider cassettes as you add more speeds.
You could use an 11 speed mech and shifter with an 8, 9, or 10 speed cassette just by setting the limit screws to a narrower range. Or 11 speed shifter with 8, 9, or 10 speed mech. Just need to ensure that the mech speeds is greater than or equal to the cassette, and the shifter to the mech likewise.
@sirromj By the sound of it there will be narrower range ‘road’ cassettes with the same spacing though? (Not stated but definitely implied if this is superseding Tiagra etc. too)
They’ve twigged that not everyone is impressed by “moar gearz” and I think the sweet spot is going to be 10 or 11 speed for lots of punters.
I’ve got 1x11 XT and frankly I don’t miss the 12th gear I haven’t got. What would be nice is a 34t chainring rather than a 32 but that’s a frame limitation.
as for bringing back front mechs to all bikes, single ring drivetrains have made packaging full suspension gubbins much easier.
Not everyone rides full suspension, moreso at the "affordable" end of the market.
If I’m understanding this correctly, the derailleurs will be the same and the shifters will pull the same amount of cable. That would mean that a 9-speed cassette is just an 11-speed cassette with two fewer sprockets and a narrower overall width. That would mean that CUES 9-speed is not backwards compatible with legacy 9-speed because the cassette spacing is different, the derailleurs are different, and the cable pull is different.
I don’t think you are. Derailleurs will be different to move a different distance depending on speed, but for the same cable pull per click from the shifter.
Nope, I thought that as well but from the [url= https://nsmb.com/articles/shimano-introduces-the-cues-ecosystem/ ]NSMB article[/url]:
All LinkGlide cassettes from CUES U4000 to XT M8130 use the same cassette pitch (cog spacing) and the classic HG interface for maximum intercompatibility.
It would appear that we're in more of a Shimano 5/6/7/8 type situation where the cassette gets bigger as the speeds increase.
On that note, it sounds like we could see a short block Saint update in the future.
None of this will be compatible with HG systems but:
Shimano will continue to manufacture HG drivetrain components for the legions of bicycles out in the wild, and they do have an excellent reputation for supporting legacy drivetrains.
So not all bad news. And I bet there will be a Problem Solver or workaround before long.
They’ve twigged that not everyone is impressed by “moar gearz” and I think the sweet spot is going to be 10 or 11 speed for lots of punters.
You've a lot more faith than I that a business is interested in selling you what you want to buy not making you buy what they want to sell.
I might be wrong of course but this to me looks like an exercise in making you want and pay for SLX up not in making a it easier to buy down.
It'll be great for OEM knocking out thousands of bikes a week "CUES" gears because they can put broadly the same thing on every model and you'll not be able to tell immediately what you're getting, and an upgrade to 10 or 11 is comparatively easy to sell if it's just a new cassette so not much cost to the OEM but more margin.
For after market? I guess you'll see deore etc gone long before CUES starts to be easily available.
and they do have an excellent reputation for supporting legacy drivetrains.
Much of which I think we'll rapidly find is predicated on trickle down meaning 2010 xtr "is" 2022 altus.
I want Shimano CUES on a YT Tues.
I’ve got 1×11 XT and frankly I don’t miss the 12th gear I haven’t got. What would be nice is a 34t chainring rather than a 32 but that’s a frame limitation.
12 speed cassette with a 10t smallest cog would sort that for you
the 11-speed shifter will have 11 clicks, the 10 has 10 clicks and the 9 has 9 clicks
11 speed will have 10 clicks, 10 has 9 clicks and 9 has 8 clicks. I'll get my anorak.
Sorry if I missed this, but have we established if the 11sp stuff has the same pull ratio as existing 11sp Shimano MTB bits?
105 won’t be Di2 only – its going 12 speed mechanical according to accidentally released info: https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shimano-105-12-speed-mechanical/
I’m not taking any chances though – it’s time to stock up on 11 speed 105.
Phew!
The concept of their "entry level" groupset costing £1700 alone was just bonkers.
Or 11 speed shifter with 8, 9, or 10 speed mech.
For several years I was using a 9 speed MTB mech (XTR970) with 10 speed shifters (Ultegra 6700). That was an easy way of using a wider-range cassette on a road/touring bike.
That's what's on my Escapade... Saint 9 speed mech with 10 speed 105 shifters. Only "just" works to be honest.
Anyway, still looks like a lot of stuff that doesn't necessarily work together hanging under one name. One freehub and one chain width is very welcome though, that alone simplifies things a lot spares and repairs wise. They also happen to be the best freehub and chain option we've had for everyday use.
The concept of their “entry level” groupset costing £1700 alone was just bonkers.
That 105 is seen as entry level is bonkers, see also deore.
They're aren't the entry level, heck below 105 there's at least sora, claris and tiagra on the road side before you start getting to the actual entry level stuff.
This is also a big part of why we keep moaning about the price of stuff - we've rather forgotten that deore etc is high end enthusiast kit so moan it doesn't come at entry level pricing.
Am confused. So when my XT 11 spd cassette wears out, will I eventually only be able to buy 11spd in this linkglide stuff and end up with a 750g cassette? It sounds good in performance and durability but it is very heavy... is the future that if the rider wants lightweight stuff road & mtb they have to go up to 12spd?
Quietly hoping the wide range 9 speed cassette will be compatible with my old 9 speed XTR shifter, and the 10 speed with Mrs Wachowchow's 10sp Saint shifter. Hopefully breathing some life into the older spares box parts.
will I eventually only be able to buy 11spd in this linkglide stuff and end up with a 750g cassette?
Which will "only" work with LG chains and rings I belive, and possibly* not your current 11speed mech and Shifter either.
Quietly hoping the wide range 9 speed cassette will be compatible with my old 9 speed XTR shifter, and the 10 speed with Mrs Wachowchow’s 10sp Saint shifter. Hopefully breathing some life into the older spares box parts.
Unlikely if as suggested, the 9 and 10 are physically narrower blocks.
*as yet pure conjecture, I'm inclined to think the spacing will probably change and I'm not sure if a 50t fits the mech as is (happy to be corrected on that)
Am confused. So when my XT 11 spd cassette wears out, will I eventually only be able to buy 11spd in this linkglide stuff and end up with a 750g cassette?
It's replacing the lower end ranges, so they'll probably still be making XT parts in 11sp.
Sunrace do very good 11sp cassettes as well though FYI.
Unlikely if as suggested, the 9 and 10 are physically narrower blocks.
*as yet pure conjecture, I’m inclined to think the spacing will probably change and I’m not sure if a 50t fits the mech as is (happy to be corrected on that)
The article says that the shifters will pull the same amount of cable per shift, just have a different number of clicks. If the derailleurs are using the same pull ratio, then the cassettes must have the same spacing between sprockets, so a 10 speed cassette is just an 11 speed with one sprocket removed.
It would make no sense to have different pull ratios on the derailleurs. It's much cheaper to just make them all the same, just like how 8-speed and 9-speed derailleurs are compatible. Then, all you need to do to change the number of gears is to make a minor change to the shifter to limit how many clicks are available, remove sprockets from the cassette, and add a spacer in place of the missing sprockets. Much cheaper way to do it.
It’s replacing the lower end ranges, so they’ll probably still be making XT parts in 11sp.
Whilst there's no info to suggest otherwise I'm not sure how long that will bear out, as is xt 11 is obsolete. It makes sense to continue to produce it whilst it can be up sold and you're producing current compatible 11speed kit so the tooling, machine time, space etc is there for 11speed anyway.
As I read the releases, with the advent of cues all the 11 speed mtb kit that is current will stop being produced. At that point how long does it make commercial sense to produce (now 4 year old) kit simply to support people not buying the stuff you want to sell?
Historically they've been very good at continuing 7 8 9 10 etc but they have still been producing current stuff in the same speeds.
If history is anything to go by you'll be safe for many years but I wouldn't be surprised to see the back catalogue rationalised in due course off the back of this.
(genuinely no idea by how long after friction shifters stopped being current on low end groups did they stop making them for anything at all?)
I could be wrong, looking at the images for the cranksets, looks like they have dropped the HTII cranksets at deore level.
I wonder how its going to affect GRX. As that seemed to rely on legacy 11 speed HG cassettes etc.
I wonder how its going to affect GRX
Grxt and grxtr coming soon...
@asbrooks Were they ever HT2 though? HT2 is the hollow-forged crank arm and the external BB Deore cranks on the Hybrid of Doom definitely aren’t that.
Which will “only” work with LG chains and rings I belive, and possibly* not your current 11speed mech and Shifter either.
At least they’ve not gone to 10mm pitch chain or anything.
The article says that the shifters will pull the same amount of cable per shift, just have a different number of clicks. If the derailleurs are using the same pull ratio, then the cassettes must have the same spacing between sprockets, so a 10 speed cassette is just an 11 speed with one sprocket removed.
Pull ratio is a derailleur characteristic. It’s the ratio of the movement of the jockey wheels horizontally to the amount of cables pulled. This will be the same all rear derailleurs in the system
What will vary is the blocks and shifters. These will need to match. But the block spacing can vary between speeds. A click on a 9 shifter can be set to pull slightly more cable than a click on a 10 speed shifter for example.
So did the article say same pull ratio or same cable pulled per click?
GRX is a different range, which seems to cover a big variety of bikes from mid-range to high end using a relatively small amount of options.
Don't see it being affected by this, but might be due an update soon-ish.
That 105 is seen as entry level is bonkers, see also deore.
They’re aren’t the entry level, heck below 105 there’s at least sora, claris and tiagra on the road side before you start getting to the actual entry level stuff.
6 Vs 1/2 Doz.
Yes Deore/Tiagra has always been perfectly good and with a few awfull exceptions has generally always got better. And is the sensible choice if you're on a budget.
But SLX/105 was always the point where you got 90% of the good trickle down stuff like aluminum cassette spiders, indexed front shifting (105), aluminum chainrings, metal shifter internals. It was the 'entry level' to 'proper' cycling.
This is also a big part of why we keep moaning about the price of stuff – we’ve rather forgotten that deore etc is high end enthusiast kit so moan it doesn’t come at entry level pricing.
Ohh, the only reason for Deore to now appear to be inspirationally priced is that we've (largely self inflicted) shafted the value of our currency over the last 15-20 years via low interest rates and Brexit.
I could be wrong, looking at the images for the cranksets, looks like they have dropped the HTII cranksets at deore level.
Deore has always been 2 peice, not hollowtech, external BB type. Cues is 2 peice also, external BB etc. however it may be, maybe, that it now attached via driveside rather than non driveside.
Aye - Deore hasn't been Hollowtech since the old Octalink cranks. All 24mm axle/outboard bearing variants have been solid forged arms.
Look to still be fixed DS/removable NDS. The pic with the bolted DS would be the entry Sq Taper model I'd imagine.
I dont believe they're dropping Deore either, I think its Deore 5100 thats become CUES U6000, Deore M6100 remains. Cues is essentially a rejig of a mismatched group of groupsets including everything linkglide, Deore 4100 and 5100, Alivio and lots of non series bits.
Ah, what I meant was the external BB, possible square taper BB. Hadn't realised that deore wasn't TH. Everyday's a school day!
Deore M6100 remains? oh my head hurts..
Deore M6100 remains.
Yeah I'm sure I read in another report that Shimano's 12sp MTB lineup is remaining intact.
Might just be the STW write-up which incorrectly says everything below SLX is being culled.
From Pinkbike:
There will still be a Deore 12-speed Hyperglide+ group, and everything beneath it will be part of the CUES family.
It was a bit nuts having three varieties of Deore, If we're honest.
😀
Sorry if I missed this, but have we established if the 11sp stuff has the same pull ratio as existing 11sp Shimano MTB bits?
It does not. The NSMB article has more info.
Whilst there’s no info to suggest otherwise I’m not sure how long that will bear out
Once again, all in the NSMB article.
@finbar why would you choose to put CUES on a YT Tues beyond marketing cues or is this just an elaborate trolling ruse?
