Get used to seeing OnlyFans sponsor more aspects of our sport

Is this another story that's leaked over from the ST bike business channel? I honestly don't know what OnlyFans is or have the faintest idea of who Lewis Buchanan is - who is he? - or what significance this has for me as a mountain biker.

Do you guys have a sub-editor atm. It feels like no-one is subbing articles with a thought for what the reader can and can't be expected to know and the effect is slightly alienating.

Obviously it's your site and you can publish what you want, but stuff like this and the article about Wahoo's liquidity rating being downgraded, which at no point explained what this actually meant either for Wahoo or me as a reader/Wahoo user feels a bit jarring.

I'm trying not to come over as hostile or angry, I'm honestly not, just a bit bemused.

Why should I care?

honestly don’t know what OnlyFans is or have the faintest idea of who Lewis Buchanan is – who is he? – or what significance this has for me as a mountain biker.

1. it's mostly a porn site
2. He's a DH/racer/MTBer.

He’s a DH/racer/MTBer.

I'm amazed anyone is prepared to pay to watch him ride a bike, given how much stuff is available for free on YT etc....

I’m amazed anyone is prepared to pay to watch him ride a bike, given how much stuff is available for free on YT etc….

That part i don't know... Obviously he's done it from a perspective of what OnlyFans will give him as much as what 'fans' will pay... But i must admit, i've not gone to the site because, well.... you know... work laptop and that's going to be VERY frowned upon 😀

1. it’s mostly a porn site
2. He’s a DH/racer/MTBer.

So mountain biking porn? It sounds strangely alluring...

I’m amazed anyone is prepared to pay to watch him ride a bike, given how much stuff is available for free on YT etc….

I imagine there’s a LOT more free grot on the internet, but folk still pay for it.

that’s going to be VERY frowned upon 😀

more than that, and I’m not sure how true this is, but financial institutions supposedly take a dim view of any transactions going to OF, in the same way as they might for gambling websites, when doing affordability checks for loans, mortgages etc.

I'm sure I read somewhere that he was going to use it for coaching and the likes. But I might have made that up.

@BadlyWiredDog

a bit bemused.

Sounds like you need to get yourself wired into the media a bit better.

I honestly don’t know what OnlyFans is

If you read the article it gives you not only an explanation of what it is, but also a history of OnlyFans.

I’m sure I read somewhere that he was going to use it for coaching and the likes.

Hmmm. Paid skills coaching but not in person? Does anyone else do this?

I’m amazed anyone is prepared to pay to watch him ride a bike, given how much stuff is available for free on YT etc….

As Mark says in the article, Lew's channel will be free to view. Read the article to see why this is cunning though!

I’m amazed anyone is prepared to pay to watch him ride a bike

Does anyone read the articles before commenting? You need to register for an OF account to watch his stuff, but his content is free to view once you've done that. The catch is that to register you need to give them payment card details, even though you're not intending to watch anything that needs paying for.

BWD I thought the linked article did a good job of explaining OnlyFans, less so Lewis Buchanan. However, as with the Marketing article and survey, I think there's an assumption that lots of us follow the Sport/Competitive/Celebrity side of cycling, which I certainly don't so hadn't heard of the chap either.

If you read the article it gives you not only an explanation of what it is, but also a history of OnlyFans.

It didn't tell me why I should care. Or did I miss that bit?

Surely the free-to-start-with thing is just the initial marketing doodah. It is a paywall/payment model site after all.

I’m amazed anyone is prepared to pay to watch him ride a bike, given how much stuff is available for free on YT etc….

As Mark says in the article, Lew's channel will be free to view. Read the article to see why this is cunning though!

As Mark says in the article, Lew’s channel will be free to view. Read the article to see why this is cunning though!

YouTube etc doesn't require CC details to watch their free stuff, so I still don't think it's very cunning at all.

Unless he's the most amazing MTBer on the planet and given I've never heard of him, I somehow doubt he is.

A bit of a non-event IMO.

Well only cunning if you can't resist the urge to go straight from biking stuff to paid grot. Otherwise it's just alienating an audience.
I don't know Lewis's content at all, but if it's anything like some of the other riders with you-tube accounts, then there's lots of kids who will happily watch them. But now the kid audience is mostly removed.

That raises an important question for Lew's longer-term career prospects.

Is his content now going to be exclusively on OF?

Because if so, and if users need to give CC deets to see it for free, he will have a much smaller audience than he's used to.

So they better be paying him very well.

And as I said in the thread on here last week, it is a form of sportswashing - in terms of getting OF in the headlines for something other than pron - as well as possibly testing the water for business diversification.

Is this another story that’s leaked over from the ST bike business channel? I honestly don’t know what OnlyFans is or have the faintest idea of who Lewis Buchanan is – who is he? – or what significance this has for me as a mountain biker.

Do you guys have a sub-editor atm. It feels like no-one is subbing articles with a thought for what the reader can and can’t be expected to know and the effect is slightly alienating.

The answers to your questions are in the 1.5 line "teaser" right below the headline.   The Wahoo credit rating was a bit more cryptic, but this is quite obviously (and if it wasn't there's a whole thread in the forum!) about the fact that a company which is synonymous with porn is sponsoring a MTB'er.  I'm a bit surprised that you've not heard of OnlyFans - not because I expect you've been there, I haven't, but because there was quite a media storm a year or so ago when Visa decided they would no longer allow payments there.  This is undoubtedly part of their push to clean up their image.

Should mountain bikers care?  Probably.  If your business is so shady that Visa stop wanting a small % of everything you do because it's morally dodgy then it's not great for the reputation of the sport.  Given we should be keen to see more women in the sport and some women would find it a poor choice of sponsor, and given MTB is popular with teenage boys who need to understand that internet porn is not real life, there's some actual controversy here rather than just a business story.

Is the headline true? Possibly not - just the PR of it being discussed is good for OnlyFans but they'll only keep chucking cash whilst (a) it generates a story in itself; (b) it generates new customers for OnlyFans (either of traditional or alternative content!) OR (c) it improves their reputation/standing.

If you are the sort of MTBer who has no interest in the competition side of things then it might be less relevant.  But I'm in that camp and it still raised my eyebrows.

while OnlyFans continues to be a home for the streaming porn industry

Is that what it is though?
I get the impression that the streaming porn industry does ok by using the free sites (eg. redtube? funny but I only found out about this from someone on a STW post!) - OnlyFans gives people what they think is "exclusive" content. Like the fellas who think they are getting something a bit more exclusive by paying for it - and paying for it [i]personally[/i] to the woman/chap showing them their bits.
Maybe there's a market for watching sports people that appeals in a similar way. Hard to comprehend really, but then so is taking photos of your food and posting it online etc etc etc.

I’m a bit surprised that you’ve not heard of OnlyFans – not because I expect you’ve been there, I haven’t, but because there was quite a media storm a year or so ago when Visa decided they would no longer allow payments there.

I had heard of OnlyFans but was completely unaware of the Visa story.

given how much stuff is available for free on YT etc….

Surely then you've come across riders on Youtube asking for support on Patreon? A similar platform. Usually supporting them gets you a extra content, for example Ali Clarkson goes more in-depth with his reviews, tutorials, or behind the scenes.

I’m a bit surprised that you’ve not heard of OnlyFans – not because I expect you’ve been there, I haven’t, but because there was quite a media storm a year or so ago when Visa decided they would no longer allow payments there. This is undoubtedly part of their push to clean up their image.

I've heard of it. I filed it under 'stuff I stay away from' and forgot about it. I suspect most folk on here are similar.

If you are the sort of MTBer who has no interest in the competition side of things then it might be less relevant. But I’m in that camp and it still raised my eyebrows.

It sounds like a PR stunt. Doesn't it? It needs filing under 'ignore'.

Tbf, what do I know. When twitter first appeared I was astonished that anyone would give a stuff about people's stream of consciousness out-bleatings. I still am tbh.

And definitely don't assume that it's "cunning".

Along with my above point about Lew potentially being screwed by this (geddit?), it's not uncommon for cash-rich, one-trick-pony companies like OF to make poor, under-researched business decisions as they try to expand into new markets.

I know this 'cos I used to work for one (also internet based, but family friendly).

Surely then you’ve come across riders on Youtube asking for support on Patreon? A similar platform. Usually supporting them gets you a extra content, for example Ali Clarkson goes more in-depth with his reviews, tutorials, or behind the scenes.

Yes, but they have a shop window which is a) free, b) doesn't require a CC and c) doesn't say 'GET YOUR PORN HERE' in large letters all over it.

He's on using OF as they're paying him a load of money. I can't see all the MTBers on YT suddenly jumping ship to OF...

I can’t see all the MTBers on YT suddenly jumping shop to OF…

The most successful ‘creators’ on OF are the ones that had a huge following prior to joining the platform.

Only Fans have been trying (probably unsuccessfully) to show that they are "not just for grot" since the whole visa/mc thing kicked off.

This has been further amplified by the fact new platforms are starting to muscle in on their market.  Fantime being the one that has had lots of publicity in Sports and "Sports Entertainment" circles after a WWE wrestler got fired from WWE due to he adult content on Fantime.

Keeping in mind that MTB is a tiny fish in the sports pond, if a Race Team wanted to slap Brazzers (don't google that on the work laptop) on their chest then I don't have an issue with it, better that than an online gambling site.

Every time there is info about how poorly the second tier guys get paid (i.e. people who could be top 20 DH/XC or top 10 Enduro in the world but aren't fully making a living from their sport and definitely won't be retiring when they retire from competing.)

Generally the consensus is that the only way to get more money into the sport is to have non-industry sponsors.

And yet every single one gets absolutely blasted (on a variety of websites, not just here).

HSBC, Mercedes, various energy drinks, alcoholic drinks. Many more.

And now a website that includes but isn't limited to, consenting naked ladies.

And yet every single one gets absolutely blasted (on a variety of websites, not just here)...

...And now a website that includes but isn’t limited to, consenting [bare] naked ladies.

Give it one week

Give it one week

Well played

He’s a DH/racer/MTBer.

He's not really a DH racer any more.
Often see him out on the trails round here.
Good luck to him he's just trying to earn a living the best way he can.

Well played

Ah thank you

It sounds like a PR stunt. Doesn’t it? It needs filing under ‘ignore’.

Isn't all sponsorship either a PR stunt or a tax dodge?

OnlyFans sounds like it's the same sort of deal as Patreon, except for being less squeamish about porn. Presumably this is part of a strategy to become a competitor to Patreon rather than "Patreon but for porn". For those not offering adult content or being offered sponsorship money I wonder what OnlyFans can offer over Patreon? Maybe they take a smaller cut of the income or something, I presume they need something to overcome the guilt-by-association issues that pretty clearly exist.

Isn’t all sponsorship either a PR stunt or a tax dodge?

Sponsorship is simply a form of marketing, no need to be so dismissive about it FFS.

But in this case it's veering into PR stunt territory.

Just as an aside, it's pretty derogatory to refer to porn as 'grot'. I know it's only lighthearted, but it's not very inclusive, and pretty derisory of sex workers.
You may choose to be dismissive of those who chose to work in the sex industry (though I suspect the vast majority of you consume their content, even if you give out a holier than thou veneer), but while not the 'cleanest' industry (in more ways than one), there are a great many people who choose to be there, choose to make their money that way, and are doing so very much within the law.
Perhaps be a little less judgemental, going forward eh?

As for Lew Buchanon - who gives - he's getting paid a decent whack for riding his bike - not something many others get the opportunity to do.

Fair play, I say.

So mountain biking porn? It sounds strangely alluring…

Isn't that the selling point of Fresh Good Friday and reviews of the top of the range versions of bikes out there?

I'm hoping they'll be in touch to sponsor my YouTube channel. I'll admit 50+ overweight, bearded cyclist with no riding skill is a bit niche but 🤷‍♂️

Presumably this is part of a strategy to become a competitor to Patreon rather than “Patreon but for porn”.

I'll be perfectly honest, I don't see one as any more or less about porn than the other, if anything I'd see patreon as the "less desirable" of the two as being as its less open about it though I doubt the content on either is entirely within the bounds of taste decency or legality.

Only fans simply has the distinction of being first and as a result somewhat synonymous with that side of the sex industry in a way patreon could only aspire to. OF is to online porn streaming what Coke is to fizzy brown vegetable juice and in the same way as sprite works but making it obviously "Coca-Cola Clear" wouldn't be a good thing for either sprite, or the coke/Coca-Cola brand.

If they want to escape that very lucrative market what they need (IMO) is a rebrand or, more likely, a distinct separation of the two sides of the business "only [adult] fans" and "any fans" or what ever but as two distinct entities.

Sticking with the fizzy drink analogy I expect Lewis' success with OF to follow a similar trajectory to Tab Clear.

That being said, the idea is to drive traffic (I'd guess his demographic is largely teen & male) towards the only fans brand where hopefully they'll start to consume other chargeable content like cooking or woodwork shows etc. although they could reasonably be hosted on an "adult free" service with a similar level of monetisation to that which the same content could garner on an adult one.

I really liked Tab Clear...

I really liked Tab Clear…

So did I. I reckon if they hadn't pushed it so hard and loud as coke* it would probably have done very well. I suspect Lewis' (and others) stint as sponsored contribution will suffer from the same fate.

*see also Pepsi Crystal, though given the origins/ingredients of coke I'm not sure that naming it "Pepsi crystal" was such a good marketing decision, that said, since right I imagine it would have ensured a lot of repeat custom.

Oh my god, now someone's been offended by a derogatory term for porn. Only on STW.

Just as an aside, it’s pretty derogatory to refer to porn as ‘grot’. I know it’s only lighthearted, but it’s not very inclusive, and pretty derisory of sex workers.
You may choose to be dismissive of those who chose to work in the sex industry (though I suspect the vast majority of you consume their content, even if you give out a holier than thou veneer), but while not the ‘cleanest’ industry (in more ways than one), there are a great many people who choose to be there, choose to make their money that way, and are doing so very much within the law.
Perhaps be a little less judgemental, going forward eh?

Settle down Quagmire...

Oh my god, now someone’s been offended by a derogatory term for porn. Only on STW.

The forum that never fails to exceed expectations...

Oh my god, now someone’s been offended by a derogatory term for porn. Only on STW.

Everyone's got something to grumble about.

Everyone’s got something to grumble about.

I see what you did there 🙂

It didn’t tell me why I should care. Or did I miss that bit?

you don’t have to care. it’s your decision if you decide to care, or not.

Oh my god, now someone’s been offended by a derogatory term for porn. Only on STW.

I think you (purposefully) missed my point...

Sponsorship is simply a form of marketing, no need to be so dismissive about it FFS.

But in this case it’s veering into PR stunt territory.

it’s a very niche form of marketing which doesn’t tell the observer anything about the product or company being promoted, and provides the marketeer with no meaningful way to measure its return!  So it’s always about intangible PR.  I guess whether it’s a stunt probably depends on if you are doing something that gets you talked about.   Frankly if you are not then it’s pretty pointless sponsorship unless it’s the type of sponsorship I sometimes see where a random, seemingly irrelevant industry is sponsoring an individual or small team.  Often it turns out there is a personal connection and there’s some clever accounting going on to pretend that it’s legitimate sponsorship not tax avoidance.

Get used to seeing OnlyFans sponsor more aspects of our sport

Why? I have read the article.

there’s some clever accounting going on to pretend that it’s legitimate sponsorship not tax avoidance.

How does a company avoid tax by sponsoring someone/something?
Or rather, how do they end up with more money than they would have, if they didn’t sponsor anyone.

How does a company avoid tax by sponsoring

It's a deductible so reduces the amount you pay tax on.

you don’t have to care. it’s your decision if you decide to care, or not.

Sorry, I didn't mean that in an emotional sense, I meant in the sense of 'tell me why it's relevant to me as a mountain biker and a user of this site'. Poor choice of words on my part. For context, Trash Free Trails is much more obviously on point.

But then maybe there are lots of people out there who are genuinely concerned about OnlyFans threatening to take over 'more aspects' of mountain biking and view it as a real 'thing'?

‘tell me why it’s relevant to me as a mountain biker and a user of this site’.

A mountain biker has signed a deal with a new sponsor. You expect them to report it if it was a bike brand, no? This is a brand from outside the bike industry, which is good, as it shows MTB is marketable, and others are willing to invest in it. It also highlights other potential revenue streams for riders and ways to consume MTB media for customers/fans. There is some controversy/s****ing here as this brand has a reputation for providing a platform for pornography (other names for it are available)

Playboy had an MTB team at one point, not sure they did particularly well though.

Just because you aren’t interested in it doesn’t mean it isn’t newsworthy.

Playboy had an MTB team

They've also had a motorbike GPteam too. There wasn't a great deal of uproar.

There wasn’t a great deal of uproar.

Have you seen a pirelli calendar or a moto GP podium presentation from back then? Playboy could very easily have been a bit high brow!

Have you seen a pirelli calendar or a moto GP podium presentation from back then? Playboy could very easily have been a bit high brow!

I'm not as politically correct as most on here... i still see nothing wrong with either 🙂

But that's a whole can of worms to open.

Have you seen a pirelli calendar

...

I’m not as politically correct as most on here…

There's a few on here that would be just as offended by the unfairness of February having less days dedicated to it than other months as they are by the pictures.

it’s a very niche form of marketing which doesn’t tell the observer anything about the product or company being promoted, and provides the marketeer with no meaningful way to measure its return!

It's not that different to adverts on billboards or the side of buses, in fact you might argue it can be more targeted even when it's non-native (firms from outside the industry).

I work in marketing myself and we don't have meaningful ways to measure return on a lot of what we do TBH.

I would guess that Red Bull can measure some value in sponsoring so many athletes though, otherwise it's a bloody big punt.

BC revoked affiliation for the Porn Pedallers Cycling Club, which was associated with/sponsored by Television X.

A mountain biker has signed a deal with a new sponsor. You expect them to report it if it was a bike brand, no? This is a brand from outside the bike industry, which is good, as it shows MTB is marketable, and others are willing to invest in it. It also highlights other potential revenue streams for riders and ways to consume MTB media for customers/fans. There is some controversy/s****ing here as this brand has a reputation for providing a platform for pornography (other names for it are available)

Playboy had an MTB team at one point, not sure they did particularly well though.

Just because you aren’t interested in it doesn’t mean it isn’t newsworthy.

I'm not talking about 'me' as an individual, I'm talking about whether it has a genuine news value. Maybe it does and I'm wrong, but my gut feeling is that most people outside the industry and the bike media tribe don't really give a stuff, not least because mostly people have no idea who Lewis Buchanan - is that his name? - is. I guess in 12 months time when OnlyFans has 'sponsored more aspects of our sport', whatever that means, I'll hold up my hands and say that I was wrong. Trash Free Trails on the other hand, has an immediate and important relevance. Anyway, it's all subjective.

I think you (purposefully) missed my point…

I guess everyone did. Was it that the word "grot" is offensive to those who shag for money on camera? whereas "porn" is fine?
If it ain't that, you may need to explain yourself betterer.
If it is that, then you is weird 😆

Maybe it does and I’m wrong, but my gut feeling is that most people outside the industry and the bike media tribe don’t really give a stuff, not least because mostly people have no idea who Lewis Buchanan – is that his name? – is. I

That's more indicacative of where you are with MTBing/biking, rather than society as a whole though ?

Playboy had an MTB team at one point

And F1 cars looked like giant fag packets, ah those were the days, eh lads?

Without prejudice of the applicable law, no brand of tobacco, spirits, pornographic products or any other products that might damage the image of the UCI or the sport of cycling in general shall be associated directly or indirectly with a licence-holder, a UCI team or a national or international cycling competition.

That's nipped that in the bud then. Good, I say.
I'm glad that our kids don't have ciggie advertising forced down their throats.
I'm even more glad that my daughter can get onto a podium through her bike riding skills alone and not as a shallow adornment.

It’s a deductible so reduces the amount you pay tax on.

That bit I get, but the implication is that by reducing your tax bill in this way, you somehow end up with more profit than before.
I don’t understand the taxation system and rates that make this possible, surely involving a greater than 100% partial tax rate.

Orput it another way:

If I own a website where I take a cut of transactions taking place on it, and it nets me £10 million a year.
It costs me £5million in servers and staffing.
Do I take my £5million profit, pay 20% tax and have £4million for coke, hookers etc.

Or do I spend that £5 million on my favourite bike racer, moto2 team and UFC fighter to put my logo on their helmet...

Leaving me with no £1million tax bill, but £0 in the C&H fund?

Neglecting the benefit of advertising on next years profit, how have I benefitted?

You’ve not given money to the government, which is enough for some.

Also, it’s assumed that the money you have spent on advertising will also give you a return in future. Spending it on tax doesn’t give you anything you can put on a balance sheet later.

Neglecting the benefit of advertising on next years profit, how have I benefitted?

More people are aware of your brand, some will of them will therefore use your products/services where they had previously been unaware of them and therefore this will generate revenue. It's exactly the same model that any non direct marketing uses - let's say Kellogs sponsor Sam Pilgrim to wear a shirt promoting their new Bacon Bakes(*) breakfast bar. Kellogs have no way of knowing whether your susbequent purchase of 100 boxes of Bacon Bakes is due to seeing them advertised on the side of a bus, seeing it on TV or seeing it on Sam Pilgrim's bike riding content, they just know that they are increasing the awareness of Bacon Bakes. By using sponsorship as well as traditional advertising they are broadening their reach and there's some argument to say that carefully selected sponsorship allows better focus on your intended demographic so if for isntance you had a product that might mainly appeal to 20-30s males with disposable income you'd align your sponsorship with things that also appeal to that demographic. MTB - tick, Lawn Bowls - not so much.

(* - sorry, as far as I know nobody makes a tasty and nutritious bacon related breakfast bar, though obviously they should)

You’ve not given money to the government, which is enough for some.

until the athletes pay tax on their income. although some will of course be to their professional expenses.

More people are aware of your brand, some will of them will therefore use your products/services where they had previously been unaware of them and therefore this will generate revenue. It’s exactly the same model that any non direct marketing uses – let’s say Kellogs sponsor Sam Pilgrim to wear a shirt promoting their new Bacon Bakes(*) breakfast bar. Kellogs have no way of knowing whether your susbequent purchase of 100 boxes of Bacon Bakes is due to seeing them advertised on the side of a bus, seeing it on TV or seeing it on Sam Pilgrim’s bike riding content, they just know that they are increasing the awareness of Bacon Bakes.

So... advertising.
If that made my business grow, by having a £5 million advertising budget (but a 2023 profit of zero), so be it.

I'm not sure I'd be framing that as "tax avoidance", to me that implies I've discovered some loophole that nets me more money by virtue of avoiding giving some to the government.

For example - being a limited company of one, paying yourself minimum wage and taking a company car and dividends is a tax avoidance concept I understand (although can't remember if its legal or not this year)

For example – being a limited company of one, paying yourself minimum wage and taking a company car and dividends is a tax avoidance concept I understand

Not avoidance as it's perfectly legal.*

In the same way as it's perfectly legal to save money for retirement using a tax efficient wrapper (pension or ISA) as opposed to just saving using something else eg buying shares and paying capital gains on them etc outside of any wrapper.

* The difference is due to the anomalies of our tax system which tax income and dividends at different rates. HMG could fix that overnight if they wished to.

Tax avoidance is perfectly legal. That's just avoiding paying too much tax.

It's tax evasion that's the illegal one. That's not paying tax that you absolutely should be paying.

Sorry, I didn’t mean that in an emotional sense, I meant in the sense of ‘tell me why it’s relevant to me as a mountain biker and a user of this site’.

right, got you. not all news articles are of interest to all people, i guess.

It’s tax evasion that’s the illegal one. That’s not paying tax that you absolutely should be paying.

Ah just tell them your not paying tax on it because it's not yours, it's your dad's.

How does a company avoid tax by sponsoring someone/something?
Or rather, how do they end up with more money than they would have, if they didn’t sponsor anyone.

go to any small motorsport event, formula ford, hill climbs, kart racing, mx (I suspect it also happens in MTB, CX etc too but I don’t know for sure) and you will see lots of “bizzare” sponsorships.  A plumbers in a small part of Fife sponsoring a team who only race once a year in Scotland.  A specialist B2B laboratory testing firm sponsoring a junior karting team, etc. when you dig a little deeper either one of the directors races at the weekend or one of their kids does.  Effectively they could take 10k out personally, pay tax on it and then spend it on kit/travel etc or they can put it through the company as “sponsorship” to avoid income tax.

i know if one football team who only have someone on the squad because his dads firm is the team kit sponsor - he’s effectively buying his son a game, but if you or I wanted to do that we would have to “donate” from the earnings we have already paid tax on.

even at the professional team sports level - where companies sponsor boxes and take their clients or friends to dinner and the game it’s often a way to for the directors to get luxury access to their preferred team without paying tax!