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Just to point out I think this is a great idea.
comments without the slight level of anxiety that accompanies it because you’re just waiting to get flamed.
This is true in general, I’ve had self imposed breaks and changed my posting style to avoid it. I’ve lost count of the many times I’ve written something to contribute my opinion and not posted / deleted it for fear of that. In that context STW often isn’t a nice place to be, it’s an anxiety trigger that leads to muted opinion.
However as said by others above, there are some great threads to read and some very kind people on this forum, I hope this principle promotes more of those to come to the fore, male or female.
Another one here who thinks this is a great idea.
I'm an occasional poster here, I guess my posts are 50% genuine attempts to solve other posters' bike or life problems and 50% smartarse comments. I don't think (I hope) that any of them have been hurtful, but I'm a bloke so I wouldn't know.
I do know though that on group rides (like the old Sideways Cycles night rides) that females joining in for the first time can feel mighty intimidated.
I hope it has a long and positive life. (And me and you too.)
If the target audience think it's needed then bring it on, I have been saddened by some of the comments on the main forum in the past so can see why it would be seen as a good thing. Quite often I've seen people assume posters are male and not even consider that they might not be which would get irritating after a while.
However I've also learned a lot from the women posters as well that relate to my partner and daughter e.g. from discussions on personal safety, and the article on period pants which I passed on. It would be a shame if these sorts of articles/discussions became solely the reserve of the women's forum.
In regard to thinking spaces should be all inclusive, I disagree, females really do need a separate 'Loo' and if you don't understand that or the reasons why, then have a good think.
Another interesting point mentioned above is fewer women post on forums through lack of time.
My job isn't computer based. I don't sit in front of a screen and when work is finished, there isn't always the time to catch up, at most I possibly read STW for 10 minutes and post once a day.
Women still 'seem' to bear the brunt of child care, housework and care of an elderly relative, therefore time is limited.
This new forum may or may not get off the ground, we can but hope.
@Bunnyhop - you've outlined the reasons for my discomfort very well. If, as you say, there are a number of reasons for women not being frequent forum users, I'm afraid that the main forum will be lessened when those few interactions take place elsewhere. I'd much rather the main forum was a place everyone was comfortable. Shame it can't be that.
<p>The other way round this would be to remove gender biased names, then no one would be able to tell who is male or female ?</p><p> </p><p>Just a random curve ball. Mrs FD works in a very make orientated environment as an orthopaedic surgeon. Many of the men have big egos and very outdated views. However she can directly challenge their stance. Many managers in the NHS are female, and she says their unconscious bias is in many ways worse and harder to over come.</p><p> </p>
@scotroutes - I along with several other women will still be using the usual forums. I for one find this site the very best for all kinds of Information.
The hope is that women will find the 'new forum', then join in with everyone.
The other way round this would be to remove gender biased names, then no one would be able to tell who is male or female ?
My username is my surname, what gender am I, can you tell?
As a bloke I’d appreciate that discussion happening in front of me. How else am I supposed to learn stuff if it happens behind closed doors?
It's not being arranged for the convenience of "blokes", and their education is not the responsibility of forum-using women. 🤷♂️
My username is my surname, what gender am I, can you tell?
Obvious trap?
There's bound to be one 'naughty boy' who sneaks in.
There’s bound to be one ‘naughty boy’ who sneaks in
There’s bound to be one ‘naughty boy’ who sneaks in.
No sneaking required, the new forum is open to all. Any bloke who fancies getting in on the action just needs to be able to spell she/her 🙄
Any bloke who fancies getting in on the action just needs to be able to spell she/her
You sure? This is STW so I’m sure there will be a few cock ups (sic) in the implementation but
Honestly. People like Emily Pankhurst went down in history to break down gender barriers. Then some midlife crisis, mtb weekend warrior,mediocre web journo, tries to redefine liberation by creating a "womens forum" jesus. nil point. wakey wakey
No sneaking required, the new forum is open to all. Any bloke who fancies getting in on the action just needs to be able to spell she/her
Now go back and read the article
As a bloke I’d appreciate that discussion happening in front of me. How else am I supposed to learn stuff if it happens behind closed doors?
Talk to women, listen to women, live with women, work with women, read about women
People like Emily Pankhurst went down in history to break down gender barriers. Then some midlife crisis, mtb weekend warrior,mediocre web journo, tries to redefine liberation by creating a “womens forum” jesus. nil point. wakey wakey
Do you think the Pankhurst's achieved what they did sitting in rooms surrounded by men?
And if you are going to try and use history to back up your nonsense atleast get it right.
Her name was Emmeline not Emily
nil point.
Several million irony points though.
Could I just point out we've had a male equivalent forum of this for some time.....
But the 'members only' forum doesn't seem very popular.
IGMC
read about women
Err... 🤣
If this results in more women engaging in the main forum I'm all for it.
Please can you get the existing forum to work properly first. I have just tried to post a new topic and been told user ID missing. I am logged in and everything.
Otherwise good luck with the new forum 🙂
I do find it very interesting that having flicked through 5 pages of the forum this morning there isn’t a single thread about the woman’s World Cup or Tour de France Femmes. Though this may seem minor, this is an illustration of how this forum might not seem as welcoming to woman from the outside, the content ‘isn’t for me’. Now I’ve been here a long time, and have got a huge amount from this forum - but I have a male mtb partner who got me here in the first place.
having seen the explosion in women on the trails, uplifts and just riding generally that so few have popped up on the forums, facebook groups etc.
I have noticed an increase of women in MTB-related FB groups, and of course there are popular women-specific MTB groups, but I think this forum has become a bit of a grumpy, middle-aged backwater which isn't particularly appealing to newbies.
It'd be interesting to see the gender stats for Pinkbike's readership and its active commenters. That's surely the busiest MTB site by far, but has its own different kind of toxicity to this place (sometimes).
And I do think this forum has become a bit more kind than it was a few years ago - if we ignore the aforementioned circle-jerks.
I think that a woman’s forum is a good thing. I hope it is popular and women enjoy and value it. I am, of course, a bit curious as to what is discussed and how it goes; but I am happy that I’m not allowed to join and understand why. Please let us know how it is going from time to time.
I do find it very interesting that having flicked through 5 pages of the forum this morning there isn’t a single thread about the woman’s World Cup or Tour de France Femmes.
WWC is on P2 but I would agree it's not exactly - buzzing.
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/womans-world-cup/
It’d be interesting to see the gender stats for Pinkbike’s readership and its active commenters.
I'd bet money it's just as gender biased as this one is. Seems to be a common feature of web based forums.
Ah thanks TOJ - I do admit it was a relatively quick skim.
Talk to women, listen to women, live with women, work with women, read about women
Yes. That's exactly how it's done.
Unless you're not able to interact with them on a forum, eh?
The context of my whole post was about my distaste for single-sex spaces - for men or women. If people want to pick individual sentences out to disagree with then that's fine, but if you read the whole thing you can see what I'm getting at in a more balanced way 🙂
I’d bet money it’s just as gender biased as this one is. Seems to be a common feature of web based forums.
It’s an order of magnitude worse.
It’s not being arranged for the convenience of “blokes”, and their education is not the responsibility of forum-using women
Yep I thought that right after I posted an earlier message.
Would be keen to see if this space could be used to discuss why the open forum isn't more welcoming to women, and what changes could be made to enable it to be so.
When a person ( like me and most of the men on this forum) come from a place of privilege then equality looks like we are being hard done by unless you stop to think
IMO I am sorry that this step needs to be taken but its not about me. Its about the women on here and this is something it seems they see valuable.
Thats the end of the debate for me. Its not about me or the rest of us privileged men.
As a fat, short middle aged and bald bloke with zero understanding of what women want/need/feel and a real knack of upsetting people I feel as though this is the perfect opportunity to put my 2pennth in. 🙂
Sounds like its a good thing.
I really hope it brings more women into cycling in general. If it makes people feel happier and able to get involved even better. Good luck!
@ahsat:
I do find it very interesting that having flicked through 5 pages of the forum this morning there isn’t a single thread about the woman’s World Cup or Tour de France Femmes
Did you start one then? It's not encumbent on men to fawn over women's elite sport, any more than it's encumbent on women to fawn over men's. It's just the nature of things and not necessarily indicative of an injustice of some sort.
And I disagree with what you say above @tjagain - "privileged men"? It's a forum. People are free to start threads should they so desire. Fill thine boots, or dainty flip-flops, so to speak.
Just because MTB has been traditionally majority-male that doesn't make it a "privilege". Would you say that about women on a horse-riding forum (other than horse riding is associated with financial well-being - but that's not necessarily privilege either)?
That word gets bandied around too often tbh.
Just to put this into a bit of perspective:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/maleonly-clubs-face-ban-under-new-law-9234349.html
That was absolutely the right thing to do. You shouldn't have clubs that are male-only. You shouldn't have clubs that have a room for only men either IMO. You can have a "women's issues" forum or a "men's issues" forum - but it should be open to all - anyone can walk in if they stay on-topic.
Two wrongs don't make a right. And whilst I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist over however singletrack wants to cater to it's female members I'm not going to delude myself that a female-entry only forum is anything other than sexist. (And again, that's fine - I'm just not going to couch it in terms of women being "oppressed" or men being "privileged" because because MTB is majority-male participative).
We'd all love to see more female mountain bikers. We all have wives / girlfriends / sisters / mothers etc. But I'm not privileged because mountain biking is a bit of a sausage fest. I'd argue exactly the opposite tbh - I'd say we're impoverished by the relative paucity of female representation. Most of the sports I do tend to be sausage-heavy, and that's a real shame.
I guess we disagree on the best methods to encourage people to become involved.
Anyway, my last post on this. It's not a hill I want to die on 😉
NO - you are privileged simply by being male
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Do you say that about any attempts to right a wrong?
I have no idea if a dedicated forum will work, but if the only harm in trying one is to erk some men who still don’t see why it might be needed… give it a damn good go. Good luck with it Singletrack peeps.
Ah now, that's interesting regarding 'men's groups'. We have in our small town 2 Women's institute groups one of which I am a member, also a 'men in sheds' group. Most of the population of our small town seem to be happy with this set up.
It seems pretty clear on this post that most of the women want this new forum and several men aren't happy for us to have it, Cest la vie.
Did you start one then? It’s not encumbent on men to fawn over women’s elite sport, any more than it’s encumbent on women to fawn over men’s. It’s just the nature of things and not necessarily indicative of an injustice of some sort.
I never said it was an injustice. I just used it as an example (one of several!) of why there may be low uptake of woman in the current forum, given it’s current focus’ is dominated by a certain demographic. Whereas the woman’s groups I’m part of have a lot of content on woman’s sport. It is also not my role to start one just because I’m one of the few woman present - I get my sport news updates from other places (I also don’t read the Men’s TdF threads) - it was just an example.
I have no idea if a dedicated forum will work, but if the only harm in trying one is to erk some men who still don’t see why it might be needed
Agree. Seems worth a try especially.
Would be interesting to see an update in a few months around how its working.
It seems pretty clear on this post that most of the women want this new forum and several men aren’t happy for us to have it,
I think 'men' is stretching the truth in this instance. Petulant children may be a more fitting description?
I hope (and I am sure you do) you can see there is a lot of support for it as well, I haven't been keeping score but I think the majority of posts from any gender have been very positive if disappointed in the need.
Would be interesting to see an update in a few months around how its working.
You have got to imagine that indicator would be more she/hers posting on the main forum?
😀 .....and people seriously wonder why women don't partake in this forum?! This place is hilarious and ridiculous in equal measure!
Good luck with your forum, i bet it will be more fun than the regular one!! 😉
The FOMO is large in here eh?
The FOMO is large in here eh?
...just like when your missus is on the phone to a friend and you casually tab-hang to see if you are being talked about! 🤣 🤣
It is also not my role to start one just because I’m one of the few woman present
I think that problem is going to follow through into the new women’s forum. I suspect it will need at least a few enthusiastic people (or cajoled staff) to get some momentum going or it will not take off and will be as much of a ghost town as the member’s forum. So step up girls, Mark needs the revenue 😀
…just like when your missus is on the phone to a friend and you casually tab-hang to see if you are being talked about! 🤣 🤣
This has been playing in my head for the last three hours - the "but don't let them talk about us in their forum!" part. Wild and hilarious
One of the reasons I've been participating in all of the TdF threads, is to feel part of the way the race is talked about on STW. The race is still very much watched by more men than women (although this is definitely changing). As one of the few women on here, it was great to give my thoughts and observations and feel very much part of the daily theads. This sadly is not the case for most of the other posts.
@stwhannah just tried to post in women’s forum on your thread, but got an “error, you do not have permission to post.”
what have I missed?
There's folk having the same issue trying to post on the open forum too.
Ah ok thank you. Maybe that. I added my pro nouns and everything!
@stwhannah - I’ve got the same problem as Anna-B (checked and my profile has the right pronouns!) I don’t have any problem posting on here
Thats why I suggested that you fix the forum first. 🙂
Our Anthony is currently under the hood tracking this frustratingly timed bug down.
@stwhannah – I’ve got the same problem as Anna-B (checked and my profile has the right pronouns!) I don’t have any problem posting on here
Cheers Mark 👍
Me too 😔
Have a go now. Anthony thinks he's found the bug and put in a temporary fix.
but if the only harm in trying one is to erk some men
I'm a man who finds misspellings irksome. Do I get my own forum?
On a serious note - I can't really see an issue here. 🤷♂️
Have a go now. Anthony thinks he’s found the bug and put in a temporary fix.
All good - thank you @Mark ☺️
Typical isn’t it ! All good now though, thank you and for the forum @Mark it’s a really good idea.
Profile edit with the pronoun thing doesn’t save for me so I can’t view it ….
Rightly so...hover over the ? Icon and it says you have to email in to get that changed.
This would be a good time for avatars, with that little male/female etc. symbol if you want to show it.
Some forums have a stack of info on the side.
Good luck with the separate forum.
Shame it's required. Saddens me it's a required necessity as a male. But understand why!
RT
Male, Dyslexic and ADHD, and probably a whole load of other issues.
Still excluded 😔 I can read but can’t post. I’ll get my pink bangs retouched and try again 😉
I've pointed Anthony at this now. Hopefully have this fixed in a moment.
Anyone else having the same issue?
If you are the quickest fix will be tech@singletrackworld.com
Hi Mamadirt,
You should be able to post now, there was a little glitch on our end with the Women's forum, which I have now fixed
Thank you for bringing this to our attention 🙂
Yes, all good now - cheers guys 👍😊
Dear Single Track
It's lovely that women can post on the women's form.
Please could you restore my ability to add a topic to the chat or bike forum?
Best Wishes
Keith
Sorry problem solved I read the instructions. 🙁
I'm waiting to get the pronoun thing done and I should be good to go.
I am fortunate in that I have a good mix of folks to ride with. I do enjoy it all but I do like the relaxed energy of a women's ride. Also, we're of a similar age and can share stories and experiences of menopause etc.
I used to be pretty fearless and then a few years ago I noticed myself getting a tad anxious about drops and descents. It was on a ride with the ladies and one mentioned anxiety as her symptom of menopause. A light bulb moment.
I am all for "men's sheds" set ups too. Men need places where they can speak freely about things too. I think the development of that programme was one of the best things I have ever seen for men.
I do subscribe to a few aviation forums. I'll be honest, I don't post as much as I could as the torrent of criticism is just something I honestly don't need to read. By criticism I mean "back in my day blah blah" or "why do you need a special uniform?" or "you only got there because you're a woman"...
As a side note, I recently went to Bike Park Wales by myself. A bit apprehensive at first. I needn't have been. Every one was super supportive and helpful. It was a really fun experience.
How has the first week or so been? @stwhannah.
Not specifics obviously but it would be nice to know it's started well, got some good/useful conversations started.
Not specifics obviously but it would be nice to know it’s started well, got some good/useful conversations started.
Would be interesting to know how many conversations and how many users - suspect/kind of hope* that the number of users is higher than was expected to show that it helping more women engage on the forum.
*that's kind of hope in the sense that it will show that the separate forum was needed, which may make some of us consider our own posts and tone if we are putting women off from posting on the main forum.
Mrs NBT posts over there and saysit's been really lovely and welcoming - I have no specifics to add in terms of frequency of posts etc, I've not checked it myself
Mrs NBT posts over there and saysit’s been really lovely and welcoming
But you should see what she says about you!
But you should see what she says about you!
She tells me that to my face 😀