Fillmore Valve - did the worst bit of bike tech just get better?

Been using presta valves for 25 years. Not had any problems. Call me a luddite.

I’d be interested to see how nicely these play with Cushcore or other inserts that sit right up against the rim…

How much??
Presta valve cores cost about 50p if you buy 10 at a go. But yeah, presta is rubbish for clogging but at 2 cores per year, it's a 9year payback for the upgrade... Hmmmmm.

@Storer76 the FAQ section says 'the poppet pushes against the CushCore when you release pressure, so it takes additional force on the cap to let the air out of the tires.'

Been using presta valves for 25 years. Not had any problems. Call me a luddite.

Yeah that.

It seems pretty universally agreed in the mountain bike world that Presta valves are horrible. Fiddly little bits of tech that leak, clog, spontaneous …

You wot?

Weird... are you people not using tubeless sealant? Because all the issues this seeks to address happen regularly for me.

Yeah, Presta was fine until tubeless sealant came along.

Don't worry about the price. Cheap copies coming from Alibaba in 3..2..1..

This is brilliant. Can I buy some?

Presta valves work ok but there are slight issues. Nothing major, I've never had one block or leak, but things can always be improved:

1. They don't admit that much air which reduces flow rate and can hinder tyres seating
2. The little pip on the end can bend and break off
3. You have to remove the core to get sealant in, and this can be hard when it's gummed up.
4. Conversely, if you want to undo the pip to let air out you can sometimes remove the core by mistake.
5. Doesn't always seal that well on the inside of the rim

I love it when a bit of legacy tech is redesigned for the better, and even more when it doesn't need anything else major to be changed.

EDIT I take it back - forty quid a pair!

Weird… are you people not using tubeless sealant? Because all the issues this seeks to address happen regularly for me.

Use Stans, have been tubeless for donkey's years on several bikes (MTB and road). Never had a Presta valve clog, or break, or leak. The only issue is, as above, inserts can impede the air flow (which, realistically, just means a bit more pumping effort required).

It's worth pointing out that it doesn't look like you can remove the valve core (for tubeless setup) on these?

I don't think I'm the target market for these things, but if some people find them helpful, that's great.

Are presta valves perfect? No.

Are they £40 worth of imperfect? Also No.

1. They don’t admit that much air which reduces flow rate and can hinder tyres seating
2. The little pip on the end can bend and break off
3. You have to remove the core to get sealant in, and this can be hard when it’s gummed up.
4. Conversely, if you want to undo the pip to let air out you can sometimes remove the core by mistake.
5. Doesn’t always seal that well on the inside of the rim

Can't really argue with any of that. Most of the time I can seat a tyre with the valve cores in place and a high volume pump but this doesn't mean that there is no room for improvement though.

Are presta valves perfect? No.

Are they £40 worth of imperfect? Also No.

^ This.

I'm resigned to replacing the gummed up presta valve cores on our mountain bikes every year or so these days. It's one of the (small) prices of tubeless. I've forced the nut off the end of the thread, so that I can disassemble the core and give it a good clean, but that's all a bit rubbish considering the price of a new, clean, intact core.

Great that this also throttles airflow less - should make it easier to inflate tyres quickly to get them seated. Yes you can always remove the presta core to reduce the throttle anyway....

Would I consider them on a new build? Yes (assuming <£10 each). Would I ditch the valves on my current wheels? No...

Weird… are you people not using tubeless sealant? Because all the issues this seeks to address happen regularly for me.

Been using stans on MTB since about 2008.....

Using Stan's on road bike since 2019...

Clogging not an issue unless I've been lazy and not used the bike for a while. In regular use no issue. But tubeless has other issues when bikes don't get used so it's a minimal problem that's easily resolved when sorting the other issues.

I really like the look of these. I'm sure anyone who uses Lezyne hand-pumps will too. No more random core removal by the trailside.

I’d be interested to see how nicely these play with Cushcore or other inserts that sit right up against the rim…

yeah. i learnt that the hard way...

Are presta valves perfect? No.

Are they £40 worth of imperfect? Also No.

Nailed it...

They ain't even £20 worth of imperfect.

Are presta valves perfect? No.

Are they £40 worth of imperfect? Also No.

+1

TBH I'm surprised it's taken ~20 years since tubeless came out to develop a new valve.

But £40? Lifetime guarantee or not that's a lot.

malv173
Full Member

I really like the look of these. I’m sure anyone who uses Lezyne hand-pumps will too. No more random core removal by the trailside.

The ABS valve on the Lezyne pumps sorted that removal problem.

Looks nice, not sure it does much more than the current setup, but the one thing that would stop me buying these is that it doesn't appear to be able to be used to pour sealant in, so would mean reverting to having the tyre off the rim a little, so unseating it and having the nightmare of inflating it up unseated and with sealant in it!

FGF looks a bit thin this week.
Still, I'll enjoy fitting these whilst wearing my £450 dungarees.

If I want fancy valves I'll use Milkit. Let's you add more sealant without having to let your tyres down all the way so reduces faffage of reinflating problem tyres

@igm ah, mine had the screw on valves. Good to know for future purposes, I did like the pumps

@argee apparently you just pour the sealant in the same way as the air goes, no need to remove the valves - the space is apparently big enough to let your sealant through. I guess then you pump it up and that blows any remnants out the way?

Are they £40 worth of imperfect? Also No.

Its not £40 cos Presta valves aren't free.

Its not £40 cos Presta valves aren’t free.

True. Only £36 then.

Great idea massively overpriced

Its not £40 cos Presta valves aren’t free.

Don't be coming in here stating facts.

Just checked, DT Swiss valves 8.99 each (call it £18 a pair).
Muc off £21.99 a pair
Lifeline £9.99 a pair
Schwalbe £16

So comparing to the CHEAPEST ones I could see it's £30 more. Compared to Muc off it's 18 quid more.

*If* they work as claimed and you suffer from any of the problems (I get gummed up valves, which can be a pain when you find out and need to pump up the tyre on the trail for example) then it may be considered an acceptable cost.

But if you've never had an issue or dont care then the headline price is a bit steep.

Its not £40 cos Presta valves aren’t free.

A pair of 'Lifeline valve from wiggle are ~£10 (and there are cheaper options too)...
But the point still stands, are they ~£30 bettererer?

Meh, I'd maybe pay £20 if I happened to need new valves, I wouldn't go out of my way to pay four times the going rate for the slightly inferior extant product...

True but I normally only replace the core which are about 50p

If they sell I expect it won't take long for someone to circumvent whatever bit of that is patented and whack out a cheaper version. Or if its Hope, a more expensive version in ano colourways.

I'm not sure this is the solution but Presta valves have no place on a mountain bike feels like the last hangover from road biking left they are fragile I once broke snapped 4 in a row on a ride in the lakes in the pouring rain it was proper grim and now with tubeless they are prone to blocking. If you were start with a blank sheet of paper you'd never come up with the Presta valve, it should go the way of quick releases, rim brakes and threaded headsets if you ask me.

A pair of ‘Lifeline valve from wiggle are ~£10 (and there are cheaper options too)…
But the point still stands, are they ~£30 bettererer?

They'll come down, I doubt there's much you can patent about valves so there'll be loads of redesigns on the market soon.

The other option is just to fit Schrader tubeless valves, options include Nutrak, Stans, Joe's etc etc.

Easy to run a drill through the valve hole I. The rim if it is presta only. Carbon excluded obvs.

We have tublesss Schradar valves, why did Presta end up being the tubeless standard, was it because they had a more readily/commonly removable core. When I camee back to MTBing in the early 2000 most rims where drilled for Schrader with a adapter for Presta.

Better - but still less good than Schrader (2 of which can be had for £9)

I don't buy the not needing an inflator claim, I dont see how this makes any difference at all to seating tyres; consequently, if I cant remove the valve core will it work with my ghetto tyre inflator, probably not. Also the 'dust cap' is integral part of the system now rather than an annoying thing its fine to lose.

Hannah Dobson
Full Member
@argee apparently you just pour the sealant in the same way as the air goes, no need to remove the valves – the space is apparently big enough to let your sealant through. I guess then you pump it up and that blows any remnants out the way?

Will be interesting to find out how you get the sealant in without a removable core, i've got a syringe and the bottle to fill up through the presta valve minus the core, wonder if reserve have got a clever injector as well that screws on, as it must have to push down on the core to open the valve, as well as allow fluid to pass around it?

Weird… are you people not using tubeless sealant? Because all the issues this seeks to address happen regularly for me

Get the pitch forks out - we still use tubes (with Presta valves) .

We also have QR on the rear wheels 😁

I won't be paying £40 but definitely interested to try them some time.

The thing about clogging isn't the cost of replacing the valve core, because they cost nothing- it's the hassle when they clog. Makes simple jobs hard and generally when you're out on a ride. That's worth preventing.

But yep still wish we'd settled on schrader.

Are Schrader valves actually better at the things causing frustrations with Presta valves? (In particular having to take the core out to inject sealant or for extra airflow to pop a reluctant tyre on, along with getting clogged over time by sealant.)

I've a vague preference for Presta, despite it's frustrations mostly on the basis that I presumed that Schrader were as bad at the bad bits, but with a couple of extra drawbacks - needing a fiddly tool to take the cores out, and looking (IMHO) a bit bobbins. If they're actually significantly better at some aspects I might rethink that.

I once broke snapped 4 in a row on a ride

You...erm...how?

I mean, I'm happy to acknowledge that they're less robust than Schrader, but I'd be surprised if people manage to snap them once a year normally. 4 in one ride sounds like there's something really weird happening.

Well if nothing else this has reminded me to order some spare cores which I had run out of, and in doing so I discovered that most mythical of beasts, a 29er latex tube!

I use my MTB far too rarely these days and swap tyres virtually every time I do use it, at least this way I can run tubeless for proper MTB rides but go latex tubes in the lovely lightweight gravel slicks for those gravel rides that I choose to take the MTB.

I prefer schrader as they are easier to use and you can get cooler vavle caps for them.

From a rim strength/fatigue life point presta are probably better as the smaller hole will result in less stress.

Would be intresting to know if that is why presta is used for mtb rims or if it is just a fashion thing.

These do look like a good idea though some of the claims are pretty bold

it’s claimed you won’t even need a tubeless inflator

Most of the time tubeless works really easy for me but every now and then I get an awkward tyre/rim combo that needs core out AND an inflator/compressor. Do these valves flow better than a coreless regular presta or will they occasionally make my life a little bit harder?

Also, this has rather pissed on 76Projects new valve launch https://76projects.com/collections/shop-other-accessories/products/hi-flow-no-clog-tubeless-valves

I'll never forget it, we were coming off High Street in the pouring rain it was freezing. There must have been something wrong with my pump or really cheap tubes as they just kept breaking off when I tried to release the pump head. My mates were in stitches as my wife had washed my backpack and not rinsed it properly. The more I pumped each tube up the more I foamed up. By the end I looked like I'd been in an Ibeza pool party. Switched to Schrader after that until 26 inch disappeared and new bikes come with Presta.

"The cost of progress" is a well known economic term and now we can quantify it. It's a £20 tyre valve.

So they bang on about how much better the air flow is compared to skinny Presta valves but have the mentioned anywhere how they compare to Schrader valves? They don’t gunk up, they inflate nice and easily, the ends don’t get bent and most importantly of all, the tip of the little bottles of Stan’s fit in the end so no spillage.

most importantly of all, the tip of the little bottles of Stan’s fit in the end so no spillage.

Edit: Little not litre, fair comment but they fit in a coreless presta fine too

I think these guys are a bit miffed if the attention SC are getting

https://76projects.com/collections/shop-other-accessories/products/hi-flow-no-clog-tubeless-valves?variant=40862715084987

Different design, but same aim and far cheaper

To help avoid clogging park your bike with the valves at the bottom of your wheel, that way the sealant doesn’t pool in the valve.

I must be doing it wrong. Zero issues with presta valves on multiple tubeless wheels. stans valve core remover takes the core out in seconds. A syringe from an old reverb bleed kit injects the sealant. Core back in and a few pumps with a Lezyne track pump has the tire seated and inflating. 1 tyre in 20 maybe a bit stubborn and I have to get the airshot out.

I must be doing it wrong. Zero issues with presta valves

No, you are doing it right but I am doing it wrong because all my valves clog up and need a clean. But forty quid a pair, **** me!

**** me!

and the swear filter by the looks 😀

I think these guys are a bit miffed if the attention SC are getting

Pissed off that we hadn't publicised ours earlier after having them for months. The designs are quite different though.

76 Projects valves are virtually identical and £24.50

But yep still wish we’d settled on schrader.

This.

Interesting. Design looks easier to manufacture than that 76 projects one, and I can see how the valve stopper at the bottom would stop clogging. Although I too wonder how you insert sealant through them.

They come with a lifetime guarantee

Does this mean they'll replace them when they wear out (like the bearings) or is it a 'lifetime' of the valve warranty against manufacturing defects?

To be fair about cost, these will probably be standard on the reserves, so 1.5k wheelsets and so on, progression is always good, plus 40 quid isn't horrific these days when wheelsets are getting more expensive.

Does this mean they’ll replace them when they wear out (like the bearings) or is it a ‘lifetime’ of the valve warranty against manufacturing defects?

That's would be an interesting discussion to have - maybe start a thread just on that?

I think these guys are a bit miffed if the attention SC are getting

Or they've just got a load of interest out of it? Theirs are 'unavailable' to buy.

Who’s is unavailable to buy? 76 have 2 different colours and various sizes available

I’d clicked on “adaptor” which selected
“No colour”.

Clicking on a valve then says not available. (Have to select pink or black )

D’oh

According to the STW Facebook feed, this is the most discussed item of the week. (I though that the "favourite spaceship" thread was much more interesting). Still, the power of free advertising eh?

What injectors are recommended for Stan's Race sealant? Their own version states it is not suitable as the fibres clog the outlet.

I didn't realise I had a problem with the valves I have - but now I know, the solution is shrader tubeless (core comes out, just like on the car ones, which are tubeless of course)
I also know the solution is certainly not something which relies on a removable (aka lost) cap to hold the valve shaft shut!

Having had 2 rides on the last week where I've had a Presta valve not seat and need pumping up multiple times I can see the need.

Infact if they really work as claimed £40 seems fine. Not from the point of view of how much they should cost to make but how much better they could make my life. I'd say they would add more value to my life than £1500 wheels or a carbon bar

alanclarke
Full Member

I also know the solution is certainly not something which relies on a removable (aka lost) cap to hold the valve shaft shut!

What tyre valves need this?

What tyre valves need this?

Ones that cost forty quid 😀 (yes I read it, yes they hold air without the cap but the cap appears to do the job of the threaded bit on a presta of holding the valve shut)

According to the article the valve's held shut by the air pressure. The cap seems to be just a cap?

I’m pretty sure the cap holds it shut to give an extra bit of security. Sorry, I probably didn’t actually read it here but in the Pinkbike comments where reservewheels were being really good at fielding questions/criticisms.

e.g. they said

The poppet doesn't 'need' the cap to work. Air pressure in tire would hold poppet closed. If you lose the cap, the valve still works to get you home. And, you can contact us and we'll get a new cap out to you.

I’d love to try some for six months to see if they are the last valves you ever need but that price is too much of a stinger

Fiddly tool for Schraeder? You can get it built into the valve cap.

Even carbon can be drilled.

Ah thanks Rubberbuccaneer, I stand corrected

presta love? now that’s niche! 😳

https://fat-bike.com/2022/06/reserve-fillmore-valve-field-test/

"Scott from Corvus Cycles compared the Fillmore with the first Cane Creek Threadless headset. Something that will change the tubeless valve across the entire bike industry. That’s a pretty bold prediction, but I agree that it is one of the best new innovations that we’ve seen in the last couple of years."

Plenty of other brands doing innovative things with valves well before this, Reserve are just the first one to do it with the full weight of Santa Cruz's marketing budget behind it.

what's the deal, however, with these and inserts? I wonder if my rimpacts would prevent the valve from opening??

DrP