Downhill World Cup: How is it for you?

i don't care as much as some about the commentary, i mostly ignore it.... but it's far from as bad as PB would make you think.

Coverage this weekend was excellent... although obviously baffling about the cancellation which seems to have been against the riders wishes. But the footage was good, angles good... even amount of the runs shown was good.

Tbh, I have mostly given up watching it. It's a tech faff, compared to the old Redbull app, so that immediately turns me off as I have no patience for techy things not working properly. We have to run GCN+ on a laptop and cast to the tele. Didn't watch the last 2 world cups so time to cancel the GCN+ sub.

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan, and love watching bike races in person (worlds were great in Scotland!), but faff = me out.

I will just read the race reports on pinkbike and be done with it I think.

<p>Stopped watching really for cost reasons. Will try and catch up but the new race format quailes/semi final/ final is daft. Qualification then a final with more riders please. Effectively doing 2 finals must be a nightmare for the riders. it also cuts the wildcard factor out of the finals</p>

I quite like rick and cg commentating. Gwin was a good addition at the weekend.
The riders unable to show their own race runs sucks hard.
Regardless I'm not paying and will watch the highlights and pirate streams.
Bk, moimoi, edbull media, dialled, wyntv plus others provide excellent behind the scenes footage and insights that keeps the stoke high.
Ews or whatever it's called now, can't say I'm interested.

+1 for sack off semis.

Also doesn't feel right that Gee was able to just rock up and ride at Andorra but Brayton was unable to despite making it into every semi up to that point.

How can the TV Coverage be a positive when you have to bloody pay for it?? As a direct comparison to last season, when it was free via the Red Bull TV app and the commentary was so much better... well, it's been dismal. Eurosport's (which I believe is already a PAID sub) schedule often had Downhill scheduled and you put the telly on only to find there was car racing or some such shite on. This weekend the women's race was on live, as scheduled, great, but they don't show the men's live, like as a ah you gotta pay now. ****ing shite.

My only real gripe is Semi finals. It's not working for me, don't see the point of it. I think I watched a couple in the first few races to see if it would throw up some curve balls, but it didn't really. Qualis and Finals, it's worked fine since forever, don't mess about with it.

I like Ric and Cedric, they're getting into their stride, I think compare them with Rob when they done a few seasons, I liked Aaron and PonPom getting a slot this race, that was cool.

The coverage seems way better, much more solid, the drones (especially in the XC races) is pretty cool, that I can watch the Juniors is also ace, I get twice the racing than before and its great to see the kids so that when they get to Elite we already know who they are like Goldstone and Williams

There was talk of the riders having more say in things, that seems to have not come about, I think we may have had a different outcome to the cancellation otherwise. Having said that, it did look pretty bad conditions, I'm not sure the racing would've been up to much

Can someone explain why some riders are protected, and how this is fair in the new format.   How is coulange not protected but alonso is? - how on earth is this worked out?

Non protected riders have to put everything into it in the semis in order to qualify. Protected riders only have to break the beam and can saunter down. Therefore non protected riders have to do 2 full on runs on the same day, protected riders only have to do 1.

i dont have GCN+, so rely on youtube for the highlights.

I popped on yesterday afternoon, watched the womens final, which had no commentary and whilst i cant stand CG constantly shouting 'look at him/her go!!' and adding little else, i would still prefer that over nothing.

finished that vid, went back to my home screen to see a video of the winning mens run, with the winner and name in full view. So there was a bit of an anti climax. Later i watched the GMBN mens final version, which was good to watch. Arron Gwin was good to listen to, even tho being the highlights you only got half of some sentences.

But ultimately, i used to love watching the DH when on Redbull, but Discovery and the format change (to semi finals etc) has really sucked the life out of it for me. Which is pretty gutting.

I still watch all the free stuff. There's almost too much of it to get through so you can pick and choose who you follow.

They've definitely ruined the race day intensity with the semi-finals. I've watched almost every single race for probably 10 years and now I can't be bothered to spend the whole day trying to follow the racing. I'll try to catch the semi's but I've been fine just missing the final and checking the results later. I've got a 2 year old to entertain so while in the past I'd hide away with the laptop for a couple of hours, now I just go out and do something else.

They're definitely trying to make it harder for riders to actually make it to a final. You'll end up with something like Gladiators with the same group of people battling it out every week. We've been able to watch so many young guns come through the ranks over a period of years and that's going to disappear. People say the World Cup should only be for the best of the best but you're taking away opportunities for people to practice at that level and get the experience. Hardly anywhere in the world has a national series good enough to be a feeder series for the WC. People dedicated all their efforts and expenses on the WC because that's the only way to learn how to race WC's.

You're not going to get young privateers and juniors travelling the world just to have races cancelled at the drop of a hat. All the points you earn in quali's and semi's are worthless if you can't finish top 30.

This weekend they should have scrapped elite finals and had the junior race on Sunday morning.

I don't know...this season just feels like a bit of a botched experiment. They changed too many things at once and now it'll take an off season overhaul to get good vibes back.

I feel like a big fragmentation is coming and we're going to lose a lot of long standing characters and miss out on lots of future stories.

Or some big cheese at Warner Bros/Discovery will see it as a failure and drop it and we'll be back where we were.

No problem watching it. Most of my sport watching requires subscriptions so I'm not incurring any extra cost.
Comms fine. some cutaways too to explain things with Josh Carlson which is good for the casual viewer.

I'd bin off the semis and try to reduce the number of people entering and repeatedly failing to qualify so we can get more races. 40 racers and 16 events?

Also the calendar being spread out in the northern hemisphere is going to cause issues with the weather. Mont St Anne may be interesting.

Enduro seems to have become a side show.

Or some big cheese at Warner Bros/Discovery will see it as a failure and drop it and we’ll be back where we were.

That's a very optimistic view. I doubt RB are sitting on their old MTB budget just in case. If Discovery were to disappear* off I feel there could be a tricky year or 2 ahead.

Unfortuantely I think Cedric is now as good as he's going to get. He's done plenty of commentary stuff over the years and never been great. Hopefully there are discussions ongoing to get Minnaar involved after he finishes. Gwin would be a good option of course, but he's just passing the time before he's racing again

*which I don't believe they will

i just watch wyn TV and look at teh results.

seen a couple of 'highlights' vids and sacked that off a a waste of my life.

used to watch either the race or teh re-run on RBTV if i could avoid a spoiler.

Bin the semi finals. Haven't watched them once this season and don't see the point.

I don't watch the semi's, too busy for that.

Commentary better with Gwin.

Sick of opening Facebook and seeing the result advertised by Discovery before I get chance to watch the race.

I do the same as VanHalen, although I have watched a bit of the Semi Finals when at home and just doing chores. The coverage is good but not up to the Red Bull standard. With the split format it's just not worth my time or money to watch the whole race run show, takes up too much of my free time now it's split. WCDH has now gone the same way as my F1 viewing: follow the stories, catch the highlights if it was an exciting one but losing me as a fan.

Short version - they've taken a free product, and put it behind a paywall without improving it. Therefore as a customer I am unhappy.

Long version:
Commentary undoubtedly worse, which takes away from any improved production. Gwin was a positive addition this week so hopefully they learn from that and look to phase out Cedric as the expert.

Live feed lacks any interesting insights - they've added a heart rate monitor (which means nothing) but removed the virtual straight, key sector leader board, and comparison of where time was made/lost.

It really frustrates me that we see riders coming into shot 10+ seconds behind and the commentators have no idea why. Surely there's enough people on site that commentators can be told someone crashed off camera?

Pre race build up is non existant. Post race highlight show is awful. I'd love to see some real course analysis (think Cathro but less childish), highlights of practice and proper post race debrief.

I can't get on board with semis format but I do see the value in using that to allow for a smaller final - I'm not sure what the solution is but there must be something better than what we currently have. Frustrated that this week they opted to cancel the Junior final but still had time in the schedule for a semi final.

Dislike them trying to crowbar enduro and DH into the same event. I think DH, enduro, and XC all need to be standalone races so we're not compromising one to accommodate another.

Short version – they’ve taken a free product, and put it behind a paywall without improving it. Therefore as a customer I am unhappy.

But they had to ? To increase income into the sport the only way is to increase advertising ?

When it was free, were you actually customer ? if there's no charge you can't be a customer can you ? 🙂

Ok - consumer, not a customer. Happy? But actually, I was a customer, because I was a more engaged fan so I had been to watch an EWS, multiple world cups and a world champs in person.

But they had to ? To increase income into the sport the only way is to increase advertising ?

They didn't have to do anything. But they did, and I understand why, so it is disappointing this didn't bring any improvements to the product. I think it's a fair assumption to say that nothing they have done so far has been positive enough to be increasing income.

I'm not in a position to subscribe to any more things so currently won't/can't pay for the live racing.

I love watching it but much preferred the Redbull setup and so now I'll just watch any highlights.

For me, the build up, line analysis, that kind of thing is the most interesting and that's on all the YouTubers channels so that's where I tend to go.

Don't mind Rick and Cedric. Warner was good for the stoke but there's nothing wrong with those two I don't think.
I like the guest commentator idea and I think it would be good if they could carry that through for each round. Good thing for injured riders to get involved with.

I always ask the question of thise saying they preferred the free Red Bull setup:

How much per year did you spend on cans of Red Bull as a result of them marketing to you through MTB?

They didn't do it for altruism.

I’m really enjoying it. Would it be better with Rob still commenting? Yes but that’s his choice not to do it, so move on.

I much prefer the new format as it makes the men’s in particular much more watchable seeing fewer riders, I have no interest in who come outside the top10 really so watching the top 30 is more than enough riders. It’s not as if those in the 30-60 range got much air time anyway.

The app is easy to use although I do wish I didn’t have to select the commentary language every time.

They didn’t have to do anything.

They did though. When Bruni won in Worlds in Les Gets he got £3000. The bloke in 10th got £300. They have to come up with a reward system that pays riders a decent wage. The only way to do that is to get mainstream sponsors putting money in. That doesn't promise they'll re-inject the money into the sport... but as least it's becomes vaguely possible.

so it is disappointing this didn’t bring any improvements to the product

They've had 5 races, I don't think you can sensibly say that. The people actually involved in running the thing have all had tonnes of experience, it's not some junior vice president of entertainment from Malibu who's last project was the Mouseketeers. I think you probs have to give them 2-3 seasons before calling it.

When it was free I'd sit down and watch, and my son would come and watch the top ten riders male and female. I have him every other weekend, when I'm child free I'm out riding and the weekends race to child weekends means I'm unlikely to pay unless the coverage is awesome.  For me, right there, is what's wrong with putting niche sports behind paywalls, young rippers can't watch it.

A similar thing happened to Cricket after the Ashes, Channel 4 had an awesome summer of coverage in 2005, everyone got involved, now it's just another Sky Sports channel, would love to know what happened to kids participation in the last 20years... I know cricket is much bigger than DH 😀

The social feeds kill the urge to watch on catch up which I'd do when RB were in charge. I'm not even sure when and how to watch catch up.

I've always wanted to take part in an activity as opposed to watch, in my head I'm supporting the sport by spending way more on kit than I would for the subscription.

Semi finals seem to add nothing apart from increase the risk to the athletes.

The EDR has been a massive disappointment, coverage has been rubbish, again Instagram updates for everything ruin the experience of watching highlights etc.

The coverage needs to improve significantly, the way Rob Warner was treated feels off. What I have watched isn't as good as last years coverage as people have already pointed out. Why would I pay for a crap product?

I was hoping Enduro coverage would be better this season and the DH elevated in terms of previous year's. However, nothing has improved as far as I can tell. I think they've bitten off too much and dropped the ball.

Misspent Summer emails have been how I've kept abreast of the season so far, it's like a virtual Dirt but better! So that's the only positive so far, looking forward to their yearbooks again.

Whoa, this obviously has been playing on my mind, hadn't meant to type so much!

The coverage needs to improve significantly, the way Rob Warner was treated feels off.

He stayed with his former employer, he wasn't kicked out.

The EDR situation is very odd, especially given that Chris Ball is behind a lot of what's going on. Gives the feeling that Discovery aren't interested but had to take it as part of the deal

I had thought Ric and Cedric were improving, but Gwin showed what someone who is genuinely knowledgeable can bring. His explanations of the track conditions and riding brought some insight to the commentary that I don't recall even in the redbull days, and made by comparison Ric and Cedric sound like overexcited schoolgirls incapable of normal speech. I hope he returns again.

the way Rob Warner was treated feels off.

I think he still works for Red Bull doing other stuff doesn't he?

The EDR has been a massive disappointment

I think so as well, Was it Leogang when everything was at the same venue, and EDR pits was 1/2 km down the road in a scruffy wee car park, and even the support teams (like Fox) were a bit embarrassed by the obvious "ginger cousin"  treatment?

@weeksy you raise good questions re: money.

I'd say that being a proper televised sport will improve the odds of teams & athletes selling sponsorships to non-bike brands. Most professional sports (inc. road cycling) see teams and athletes make the lions share of their money from sponsorship and endorsements, rather than prize money.

It might be we need more agents/commercial teams within team structures to help make that happen 🤔

He stayed with his former employer, he wasn’t kicked out.

This is true, but I think Rob was interested in a role, Chris Ball made a comment on Downtime podcast that Rob took exception to on social media. We've not got the full story, but it sounds like there could have been a way to make it happen and for whatever reason it didn't.

What happened to that dodgy chat show with Rob, Emily Batty and (can't remember who) ? Was there more than one eposide?

How much per year did you spend on cans of Red Bull as a result of them marketing to you through MTB?

Most professional sports (inc. road cycling) see teams and athletes make the lions share of their money from sponsorship and endorsements, rather than prize money.

I hear you 100%... but don't forget, the personal sponsors they bring in is also because of increased exposure. Watching yesterday on Discovery they had 4-5 sets of adverts in the ladies Elite show, that's GOT to bring in more money to the game, which in turn brings in more viewers.
Even though people say about 'paywall' a LOT of people get to see DH now through Eurosport and Discovery which comes as part of an overall package, they wouldn't have seen it or found it via Redbull TV as that doesn't exist to most... So yes it's behind a paywall, but it's also more open to the general public at the same time.

The biggest difference with DH and MTB is that currently 99% (made up figure of course) of personal sponsors are bike based, look at any ridr jersey with sponsors, they're all MTB companies.. Think of MotoGP, WSB, even Speedway and MX racing, then also think F1, touring cars, they're not... they're 'companies' if DH just sits within the cycling niche it can only ever reach cycling people and sponsors.... they need mainstream companies putting money into riders...

How much per year did you spend on cans of Red Bull as a result of them marketing to you through MTB?

Only time I’ve drank red bull is back in the late 90’s with vodka, don’t drink fizzy juice apart from the odd can of Vocation beer

agree with companies sponsoring riders. If you want more outside sponsors you need more coverage. current format with 8 per year is a poor return. bit of a catch 22 though as you need the sponsors to increase the coverage in the first place

I always ask the question of thise saying they preferred the free Red Bull setup:

How much per year did you spend on cans of Red Bull as a result of them marketing to you through MTB?

They didn’t do it for altruism.

About the same as I spend on sofas from DFS and tights from Pretty Polly when I'm watching ITV.

I'd not be surprised to see more non-bike team/athlete sponsors next year, once all view stats, proof of concept from a marketing perspective is out there.

My red bull question was 100% genuine and the answers *might* be an insight into why they didn't fight to retain it. After all, a marketing endeavour can only be tolerated so long if it's not generating a return 🤷‍♂️

once all view stats, proof of concept from a marketing perspective is out there

RB never released viewing figures for livestreams and Discovery haven’t released anything so far. Don’t think there’s been an indication that they’re planning to (Pinkbike did a viewing figures article recently)

What happened to that dodgy chat show with Rob, Emily Batty and (can’t remember who) ? Was there more than one eposide?

Episode 2 came out last week.

I had to look up how Red Bull makes its money! I assumed these days they were a media company that makes money through advertising and sold a few cans off the back of it, not too far removed from Rich Energy. I've drunk a similar number of both brands in the last few years. I physically see more people drinking Monster.

But when 61+ billion cans have been sold, at a big mark-up, that will generate a few $$$

Maybe we should petition Lucozade to cover DH and get Daley Thompson on the mic.

I’ve watched almost every single race for probably 10 years and now I can’t be bothered to spend the whole day trying to follow the racing

I’m confused sorry.  Under the RB deal we had about 2.5hrs for the men’s final, about an hour for the ladies and that was it. Now if you want to you can watch the mens and ladies semi final and final, the junior men and ladies finals if your interested in the upcoming talent, that were never previously broadcast.

There were no semis but the final was 60 men. But and its a big but, RB never broadcast the first 30 riders apart from about 10 seconds of the current hot seat occupant at the start of the live stream. So in reality the 2 finals shows are covering the same riders as they did last year. If you really want to you can now watch way more racing each weekend or the same as RB offered if that’s your preference.

I Watch the highlights on YouTube. I like them a lot. I tend to also watch the Enduro highlights, which I also like.

unlike many folks, I like the commentary this year at least as much, and maybe more than previously.

the YT highlights are obviously much, much shorter than watching it all day on telly previously. But I probably wasn’t going to do that for every location anyway. If I could tape the whole event and fast forward to the finals, if be interested, but not enough to pay for it.

I too watch the highlights of DH and Enduro.
I too am slightly warming to the broadcast style and commentary.
They do need some more real pro/ex pro riders in the commentary team.

Gwinn is an even bigger asset in the commentary booth than on the track

Not sure the semi-final thing serves any purpose however I do wonder if best of two runs, Rampage style, would be a way of evening the odds when it comes to weather and stoppages and Minnaar's exploding bicycles.

Gwin's input on the commentary was really good. Best bit was Daprela trying to find his bike.

I do wonder if best of two runs, Rampage style, would be a way of evening the odds when it comes to weather and stoppages and Minnaar’s exploding bicycles.

Yes it can, but it can also absolutely ruin the spectacle. Eg run 1 is dry, then it starts raining. No point in even racing, so you’ll now be compelling people to ride in poorer conditions for no reason

So much change this year, too much but these are my good and bad things.

Good:

Camera and drone work slightly better, the editing seems pretty good also.
Despite the trouble of this last race, it’s good to see a new, gnarly and natural track. Bring back Champery…

Struggling to think of anything else tbh.

Bad:

The semi’s format. Just have qualis and the race. It just seems too drawn out like this, plus the weather makes it much more likely to be an unfair race overall. If anything, cover the qualis and scrap this semi final business.

Commentary I don’t actually mind CG, he’s calmed down a bit now and at least he’s experienced and has enthusiasm, and with Gwin he was better. But that Ric guy, sorry but it’s just awful, the commentary equivalent of magnolia paint. Tries too hard but doesn’t really know what he’s talking about. I think a combo of CG and a guest someone from the sport who’s not riding ie Gwin, Wilson, Donahue, Gee, etc.. It would be more interesting at least.

Those stupid board things on the track, it’s not slalom skiing. Maybe they could work if they were more off the line but they’re not needed and obscure the track. Also prefer tape rather than these green sticks, maybe not all the way as there’s more wastage and hassle, but around the technical bits and corners. Could Finn have saved that crash this last race if he could see the boundary a bit better on his mega scrub? IANFI.

The virtual head to head graphic thing Redbull used to do, where you could see if a rider was making up ground, that was really good.

I’d love to see races on the other continents, even just once a year.

There’s loads of good stuff though too but more in the overall picture. The riders are just so good today. Coverage from Cathro, Wyn, BK, Vital and a load of others has got really good this year too, thankful for that.

Just my long winded 2p

Even though people say about ‘paywall’ a LOT of people get to see DH now through Eurosport and Discovery which comes as part of an overall package, they wouldn’t have seen it or found it via Redbull TV as that doesn’t exist to most…

i know this is a uk based website with mainly uk participants, but i’m pretty sure eurosport isn’t available in north america as part of a regular tv package, but tv’s come with a red bull app installed.

does discovery broadcast any DH outside of discovery+?

i don’t think there is any greater chance of punters stumbling across DH on discovery+/eurosport and becoming fans than there was when it was on redbull tv.

i also don’t see how the sport can grow if the rules make it difficult for competitors to get a foothold. unless the plan is to attract so many sponsors that it becomes viable for more elite/factory teams to operate. don’t know the correct term, but i mean the teams with the riders that don’t need UCI points to enter

the only highlights i’ve found on youtube have been very short.

And I'm still the only one thinking it's Patrick Kielty commentating 🤔

I get Discovery + ‘for free’ with my sky sub

If I had to pay for it I would be well and truly peed off as the interface is crap. <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">If it wasn’t for this forum I would have missed most races as their schedules are always wrong.</span>

The commentary in the semis is awful, as is the camera work. It improves slightly in the final, at times I used to find RW a bit ott but boy he does show how bad these guys are.

The whole organisation just appears a bit amateurish with scheduling later in the year, last minute cancellations

Im actually getting bored with the courses, they are all getting bike park esk. Why not do the full race series at Dyfi and stop all the travelling?

If I had to pay for it, I wouldn’t be paying again and certainly if it’s not in my Sky subscription going forward I won’t pay for it

I'm finding it far easier to watch, trying to find the live feed on the red bull app was damn near impossible, it would constantly have links to last week's race rather than the one that was live at that very moment. Now I can go on Discovery+ and it's right there.

I agree on semi finals being rubbish and the ews now feeling worthless

But that Ric guy, sorry but it’s just awful

Really? I'm all for bring back RW but yer man is working hard holding shit together. Far, far better than anyone other than the guy who should be commentating on these spectacular events.

If (massive if, I know) the new setup was not behind a paywall, I think it would be marginally better.

You get to see more of more full runs.
The commentary is still poor compared to RB - Gwin seemed to be a large step in the right direction, though.

But, as I cannot now watch finals in full, the experience is virtually non-existent. Semis? Yeah, but no. The quick riders are not at full tilt and you can tell. The format changes are designed for a better viewing experience, but only if you pay and I am not in a position to do that.

More generally, in my opinion, there needs to be one or two extended sections of slow tech on every track. DH is rapidly heading towards a battle of outright courage/stupidity. Or, putting it slightly less emotively, the winning edge is defined too much by willingness to accept risk. The media men think da kidz want big air and big crashes, but this view is distorting the sport and making it more dangerous. Slow tech is also a distinct skill versus blasting down.

I'd like to rewind the clock a few years, TBH.

But, as I cannot now watch finals in full, the experience is virtually non-existent.

Why ?

DH is rapidly heading towards a battle of outright courage/stupidity. Or, putting it slightly less emotively, the winning edge is defined too much by willingness to accept risk. The media men think da kidz want big air and big crashes, but this view is distorting the sport and making it more dangerous.

Welcome to the world of 2020+ That's how the kids roll... You see 16-17 year olds at Vanta Jam, you've got Harry Schofield hitting jumps bigger than double decker buses and 8 year olds hitting A Line in Whistler.... The kids do want big air, thats what they thrive upon. You only need to go to any home built woods and see what trails the kids build, they don't build tech, curves, gnar.... they build jumps and gaps... That's the world.
Whether that's a deliberate thing in terms of course, choices etc i'm not sure. But it's the world in which we find ourselves.

Are you asking why not being able to watch finals live makes the experience virtually non-existent? Seriously?

The point of a race in a TT format is who gets down the hill quickest. In the final, the one that really matters. Not some pseudo-quali named as a 'semi-final'. To have the proper experience you need to watch the last hour at least, live (as it was on RB).

As for big air and crazy speeds - sure, you can have 85% course like Willingen if that is your thing, but a couple of sections of slow tech would not impinge on that much at all. Most tracks are so steep that the riders are back up to warp speed in 2-3 seconds.

Overall, I think it's fine for the first season under WBD. I already subscribe to Eurosport for road racing, so the DH isn't costing me any more than previous. The Eurosport is loads better (for me) than Redbull was, just works.

The commentary isn't that bad, was improved immensely with Gwin on board, loved the detail he brought to the race. Would love to see Reece, Miriam, others in the booth each week. Hoping they need a season to find their feet, wouldn't be mad if Cedric was moved out the booth. I think he'd be great as an after race interviewer, imagine the hype at the finish line with Cedric congratulating Bruni after a win.

Filming is definitely a small improvement, I like the closer drone shots and it feels like we see more of the racing.

Haven't watched any of the semi's, I just treat them like qualifying. Look at the semi results on PB and then watch the final. Think it should go back to quali and final.

The most important thing is the racing is still awesome. I love watching Vali, Loic, Loris, Nina, Danny, Greg, all absolute magicians on a bike and come across as ace people too. I think amongst all the complaining, people are missing the fact that the racing has been damn good so far this year (weather excepted).

The culmination of paywall, not having Rob Warner, race schedule changes killed any interest from me. All the drama around last few races has also made me less interested.

Are you asking why not being able to watch finals live makes the experience virtually non-existent? Seriously?

No, i'm asking why you can't watch the finals in full ?

Watched Eurosport Loudenvielle highlights last night (having avoided the results) - must say, what a fantastic race. Great course meant for some really out-there runs - especially Daprela, oh my. But Eurosport really couldn't give a toss about it, the editing looking like it was done blind, and here's the greatest of all time, Greg Min... oh.. adverts and... he's now Bernard Kerr! ad breaks in the middle of runs.... I stick by my TV coverage is garbage comment.

I used to fit watching the races in around family life, almost always on my phone with one headphone in, cooking etc. I can’t just sit in front of the TV/computer for hours when I need to be a useful parent at the weekends. So this is the first year in over a decade that I haven’t watched the races. I’ve watched some of the highlights and I’m pretty like, blah, whatev’s about the whole thing. A shame.

Not watched any of it, as it's behind a paywall.

Bit like @chiefgrooveguru above, needs to fit in around other things, not something I would pay for as the chances I won't get time to watch it are too high.

I used to fit watching the races in around family life, almost always on my phone with one headphone in, cooking etc. I can’t just sit in front of the TV/computer for hours when I need to be a useful parent at the weekends. So this is the first year in over a decade that I haven’t watched the races. I’ve watched some of the highlights and I’m pretty like, blah, whatev’s about the whole thing. A shame.

That closely describes my situation too. Young kids and aging parents leaves me with little time to dedicate/sit on my arse to watch through hours of coverage. RBTV coverage before was spot on - long enough to cover the race, short enough to relaistically be able to watch it. RB app was perfect to watch while multi-tasking, but equally I could sit back once kids were in bed and watch it back properly.

Coverage: I ain't subscribed/paid as I can't commit to watching that amount of less-exciting coverage. RBTV was shorter, sharper, much more exciting, and a realistic amount to watch IMO.

Semi-finals: no need. Sack them off. Back to qually and final only.

Commentary: awful, a big step down from previous years. Rick and Cedric just talk without giving much meaningful insight - they don't add anything and I'd mute them if I could. Gwin though - GREAT addition at the weekend there, showed to me just what we're missing (the technical insight and real-time analysis of the runs) by not having Rob, Elliot, Tracey and Claudio.

The racing/tracks: still ****ing amazing which IMO makes the coverage and format changes even more frustrating - that I can't easily follow the racing like I have the past decade and more.

Coverage: I ain’t subscribed/paid as I can’t commit to watching that amount of less-exciting coverage. RBTV was shorter, sharper, much more exciting, and a realistic amount to watch IMO.

Why not just watch the finals ? You don't have to watch the Semis or the Juniors.. The finals show 30 riders, but the prog is equally as long as the RB version, showing more of the runs of the last 30... whereas the RB version showed more rides, but less actual content.

Young kids and aging parents leaves me with little time to dedicate/sit on my arse to watch through hours of coverage

Don't then, you can watch exactly the same amount of time on just the the top30 men's finals.

Moving Cedric to another role would be good, his rabid enthusiasm doesnt quite gel with the live commentary format.

Gwin excellent, but you can tell he's itching to get back on the bike. Minnaar did a good hardline commentary a few years back, but second place last race so reckon he'll keep at it for another year at least. Wilson was good a couple of years ago.

Not a huge fan of the semis as they are. I watched the first one on youtube (and the U23 XC) to gauge the coverage for freebefore buying a GCN sub. Not wathced them since. The 30 and 15 rider final seems quite good in my opinion. Just need to sort a fairer/better qualification system.

My thoughts, scrap semis, scrap protected riders; have a two run, best time counts quali.

scrap protected riders

iirc this came in because of top riders missing out due to things beyond their control in quali's - e.g. weather

If it was a more mature sport you'd just have the same 15/30 riders doing all the races with (maybe) an occasional local wildcard. This would mix a lot of course issues (massively decreased traffic), but OTOH people would absolutely flip out that the 100th ranked rider in the world wouldn't have a chance to try and qualify

iirc this came in because of top riders missing out due to things beyond their control in quali’s – e.g. weather

Unfortunately in reality it gives massive benefit to the top riders as they can risk crashes and punctures to a greater extent.

Hence my suggestion of a two run quali. Or to save time, perhaps only the protected riders get a second chance. Obviously those two runs are going to be a few hours apart so there is still the weather issue.

I used to watch every race when it was on red bull, either live or catch up when I got home from a ride.

I haven't subscribed for the new broadcasters for two reasons.  Firstly if I'm paying for it then I will feel like I need to watch it, and with the new format of quali, semi then finals, I simply can't invest that much time.

Secondly, Ive watched a couple of semis on YouTube and the coverage has seemed very poor.  Poor camera work and poor commentary.  I'm not paying for something that is substandard compared to the free version last year.

It's a shame, as I feel like this is a really great sport to watch online, it has such a climatic build through the finals race.  But the new format will not encourage new people to the sport.  Downhill seems to be getting ruined by the new broadcaster.

with the new format of quali, semi then finals, I simply can’t invest that much time.

you don't have to watch the semis (which is free on youtube, so dont feel like you need to do so to get your money's worth)

You end up watching the best* 30 men and 15 women, which is pretty much what happened in previous years.

*Ok very occasionally, someone will slip through the cracks like Brayton. Which sucks if you are him, or if he is your most favouritest rider ever.

You end up watching the best* 30 men and 15 women, which is pretty much what happened in previous years.

Yeah but riders 30-50 was where the absolute mid-field carnage used to happen 😉

*Ok very occasionally, someone will slip through the cracks like Brayton. Which sucks if you are him, or if he is your most favouritest rider ever.

Which even he has admitted is his own fault for not paying attention to the rules

But if you/we/everyone doesn't pay then the sport disappears. The sport needs money to bring money, to make money, to bring money, etc etc... Without the customers, the advertisers leave. I have no idea why some people seem to think RedBull will be the saviour if Discovery+ goes away.. RedBull had decided that the value placed upon it was more than they were prepared to pay.. Why would they come back ?
Even though it may be worse (in some opinions/ways) it's still the best we have and the only thing we have.

I mean lets be honest here, how many people were slaying Crankworx coverage in years gone back, rubbish camers, rubbish commentators, etc... it was slated time and time again.... But that was RedBull too.

Is even things like Rampage decent... well only because of the spectacle... it's had completely dubious results, a rubbish set of commentary and camera angles that often miss things...

Discovery+ may not be 'the answer' but it's all we DH fans have currently... embrace it.

peter1979 nails it for me.

I'm not paying for something that is less good than what I had before.

If that means the sport dies then it is the UCI whatdunnit by selling out.

🤷‍♂️

But if you/we/everyone doesn’t pay then the sport disappears. The sport needs money to bring money, to make money, to bring money, etc etc… Without the customers, the advertisers leave. I have no idea why some people seem to think RedBull will be the saviour if Discovery+ goes away.. RedBull had decided that the value placed upon it was more than they were prepared to pay.. Why would they come back ?

I don't buy into the Red Bull = saviour thing either, but . . . They haven't gone completely. Still a large presence from them in the finish area at the weekend. If the paywall situation does fall flat on it's face then maybe RB will come back, but they'll do so for a far cheaper price than they were offering before. The sport still loses

But the new format will not encourage new people to the sport.

Eurosport had 157 million subscribers in 2019,  it's probably going to open DH to a much much wider audience that RB could ever have managed.

Going behind a paywall to increase viewers?

It's a strong business model if it works!

🤣

Going from a platform that's free but has 100,000 users

or Paywall with 200,000,000 worldwide

yeah i can see why that would fail 😀

Going behind a paywall to increase viewers?

You're aware of no doubt, the Premiership, T20 cricket, Tennis, F1, The Superbowl, etc etc?

You’re aware of no doubt, the Premiership, T20 cricket, Tennis, F1..The Superbowl, etc etc?

Yes. And how many viewers would those have free to air?

It seems the point is moot (and the thread title too, for that matter) because for every person that won't now watch it, there will be 2000 new viewers.

It appears the UCI have hit upon a positive feedback loop of amazingness.

It appears the UCI have hit upon a positive feedback loop of amazingness.

It's far from that... but RB and DH was only working for some people, mostly viewers... it was giving bugger all to riders. As said, they were getting £3000 for winning the Elite world champs last year in prize money, hell, that's buttons for putting themselves on the line of broken bones time and time again, risking crashing etc... But they get next to sod all. Considering they're unlikely to win more than 1 event in a month, it's not exactly glowing prize money. You add that to the fact they're hardly getting millions as racers from teams. I see plenty of them at races we attend, none turn up in Lambos, none turn up with £200,000 campers.. they're not earning well... Sure a few are... but not many.

Unless 3rd party money comes into the sport and viewers increase, the riders won't get better packages in terms of reward.

I've not seen anything in the semi-finals that makes me want to subscribe to Discovery+ or any of the other options that could gain me access.  I cannot stand the G**N channels and I don't want access to anything else D+ do so I'm not interested in taking out another sub. I'd consider a PAYG for the events or the series but I'm not impressed with what they've done so far, especially the way they're treating the riders. I guess I'm conscientiously objecting,

I was never necessarily pro or anti Redbull, I can't stand the drink and consider them a pushy and somewhat tacky brand but do love that  the owner had a massive passion for sport, especially the more extreme stuff and put a hell of a lot of money into it. Being the recipient of an RB helmet is a hell of an accolade in whatever sport you're doing and I understand they treat their athletes very well, especially when injured.  I don't for one minute think that Redbull's custody of MTB sport was 100% altruistic but they did right by it for 10 years and they, at this point, are sorely missed.

D+ and the UCI need to pull their fingers out to create a show worthy of the performers, pay those performers accordingly and treat them right. These guys are risking their health for the sport, it's spectacular and D+ are benefitting from it in some way or they wouldn't be doing it. It's time to bring in a (real) title sponsor and up the prize money.  I wonder what could/will happen when DH subscriber/viewing figures bomb? I'm assuming that D+ are contractually obliged to put on and broadcast the events.