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Protect Our Winters is a climate change campaign group perhaps better known to snow sports enthusiasts, but with a year round remit to raise awareness ...
By stwhannah
Get the full story here:
I am not too sure what the article is saying other than we know the climate is changing.
For me cycling has lots of bad impacts on the environment.
- Professional racing that has a full on ICE brigade in front and behind, the pollution created by all the vehicles must be massive
- Trail Centres/Bike Parks Everyone drives there in Vans/SUV's. Get uplift in vans that are ICE and knackerd.
- Ebikes - Increasing numbers, and even increasing numbers of battery packs to charge the batter packs
- Plastic Bikes.
TBH there's nothing 'we' can do that would change anything in our lifetime. Even if we all stopped now it's going to take tens maybe hundreds of years before the benefits are felt on the planet. So whilst 'we' may change and help, we'd be helping future generations only.
Just what we need, another group of gullible eco loons.🙄
Professional racing that has a full on ICE brigade in front and behind, the pollution created by all the vehicles must be massive
Although to a certain extent it's offset by the lack of normal traffic on the route that day. It's also mostly being driven at steady, more efficient speeds.
Far and away (by orders of magnitude) more damaging is the influx of spectators - people fly from all over the world to watch the Grand Tours and/or follow the race around in camper vans.
Same with riders too - having thousands of riders and team helpers flying boxloads of kit around the planet (like for the UCI World Championships this week) is far more damaging than the actual racing itself.
Are you confusing the Jet stream and the Gulf stream in your article?
Well that's my mind up. I'm not listening to scientists or so called "experts" any more, it's the good ship Gove and daveylad's informed opinions for me from now on!
TBH there’s nothing ‘we’ can do that would change anything in our lifetime
@Weeksy, in our lifetime the goal is not to change anything, just stop us having any further impact. We have to do this in our lifetime, if we don't things will really get out of control.
So whilst ‘we’ may change and help, we’d be helping future generations only.
That, in itself, isn't a bad thing to be doing though...
Although to a certain extent it’s offset by the lack of normal traffic on the route that day. It’s also mostly being driven at steady, more efficient speeds.
Im not sure I buy that. I suspect the normal traffic is either diverted on a different route, or just held back by police whilst the peloton passes that point. I’m also not convinced the peloton moves fast enough for the vehicles to be running optimally from a fuel consumption perspective
I’m also not convinced the peloton moves fast enough for the vehicles to be running optimally from a fuel consumption perspective
On the flat it will, climbing 3 alpine passes in a day not so much.
Far worse than that are the helicopter tours that also fly around each stage (not the TV helicopters)
Sorry but the idea that climate change threatens cycling of all things is clearly a load of absolute bollocks. Cycling must be one of the activities that is most immune to climate change. People cycle quite happily(*) in all weathers and climate around the world, with minor exceptions for the most extreme heat and cold, the latter can be handled with decent clothing and equipment and the former isn't going to be an issue in the UK ever.
(*) wet windy British winters may stretch the definition of "happily" just a touch.
It might have an impact on your cycling tho' as it's not likely to have a positive change on your economic situation.
I’m finding this all a bit difficult to take seriously for the following reasons
The quotes are all from people who have made a living travelling round the world to sell bikes, that is the whole point of racing sponsorship afterall. The carbon footprint of racing and the sales it generates must be huge.
secondly the idea that climate change will make it harder for people to travel round the world to go and ski on snow is a bit of a self fulfilling hypocrisy. The very act of going to these resorts, the infrastructure connected with skiing is part of the problem. You could almost change the title to say snowsports enthusiasts want to avoid climate change so they can fly and increase pollution to go and enjoy themselves in the snow.
The quotes are all from people who have made a living travelling round the world to sell bikes, that is the whole point of racing sponsorship afterall. The carbon footprint of racing and the sales it generates must be huge.
The US site is full of ambassadors who are concerned about climate change but also make money by travelling. And you can buy merch! Take my money!
Charity details here : https://www.oscr.org.uk/about-charities/search-the-register/charity-details?number=SC047595 Am I reading it correctly that they spent £168,000 in 2021 for "the advancement of education","the advancement of environmental protection or improvement" but with no specific beneficiary other than everybody?
Being cynical, I'm sad that I didn't think of this. It's the perfect vehicle* for my imagined lifestyle - going around the world playing with my outdoors toys while occasionally putting out a report saying 'stop doing whatever you're doing'. 😀
*deliberate use of that word
So whilst ‘we’ may change and help, we’d be helping future generations only
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit
Unless they're oil palms etc
If the Gulfstream collapses our winters will be just fine. Except for people living in uninsulated housing stock designed for temperate environments.
A climate movement launched by globe-trotting snowsports superstars seems counterintuitive, though I suppose the climate movement will take allies from wherever.
It's easy to be dismissive of well meaning "personalities" involved in campaigns like this, but the core message is still deadly serious.
Despite what Fishy Rishi says, we will all have to make some changes to our lifestyles to address climate change.
I haven't flown for 7 years and I don't eat much meat - but I do drive my van to ride in the UK and I've owned quite a few bikes... So I'm not sure how well I'm doing.
Does Singletrack consider its environmental impact? Maybe it could publish how many flights it sends people on to press camps etc?
Sorry but the idea that climate change threatens cycling of all things is clearly a load of absolute bollocks. Cycling must be one of the activities that is most immune to climate change.
The actual article references the aftermath of Storm Arwen when loads of trail centres were closed for ages following the storms. Storms like that are going to become more frequent and more severe.
Roads are wrecked by super high temperatures and/or flooding, that's road racing out the window not to mention racing in extreme heat or weather.
Life in pretty much every context is affected by climate change. I get the hypocrisy of globe-trotting sports stars going on about it but they at least have a platform to connect with people.
chakapingFree Member
It’s easy to be dismissive of well meaning “personalities” involved in campaigns like this, but the core message is still deadly serious.Despite what Fishy Rishi says, we will all have to make some changes to our lifestyles to address climate change.
No we don’t, because as has been discussed at length on other threads unless all the worlds governments agree to do something meaningful then it’s a waste of time and I for one am not prepared to compromise my lifestyle in the off chance that the rest of the world might follow suit at some point in the future.
I note that the Gehrig twins are so concerned about the impact of travel on the climate they now earn part of their living from a hotel that actively encourages people to travel from around the world to stay. I’m sure they could earn a living in a far more environmentally friendly way if they were that concerned
From wiki, so may not be up to date or accurate :
Activism[edit]
According to POW's website, they aim to utilize its members, partners and Alliance members in advocating for its cause. POW’s partnerships with brands and CEOs continue to grow. In 2018, POW executed two congressional briefings and three lobby days, including the highest attended annual September Lobby Day (35 attendees meeting with a total of 30 Congressional Offices). They had nine companies represented, including Alterra Mountain Company, Aspen Skiing Company, Bemis Associates, Burton, Mt. Bachelor, POWDR Corporation, Ski Utah, Smartwool, and Spyder.
In December 2012, POW worked in partnership with environmental agency, Natural Resources Defense Council to publish a study determining how climate change is affecting the economy of the winter sport and tourism industry in the United States.[1]
The organization, despite the United States federal government shutdown of 2013, sent a delegation to Washington to meet with senators and discuss the issues surrounding climate change.[2]
On December 3, 2013, POW spoke with the United States Environmental Protection Agency(EPA) Administrator Gina McCarthy on POW's influence on the winter sport community and POW agreed to fully support the EPA and Clean Air Act (United States).[3]
POW partnered with several Yale students to meet with winter athletes during the 2014 Winter Olympics at Sochi to promote a more open discussion about the effects of climate change.[4]
POW also participated at a march at New York City during the UN Climate Summit of 2014.[5]
Members and Support[edit]
POW receives financial support from The North Face, Patagonia and CLIF Bar and many other corporate companies, partners, foundations, individuals and resorts.[6]
There's not a lot of actual activity in there. Meanwhile : Greenpeace protesters arrested after roof protest at PM's North Yorkshire house - BBC News
They had nine companies represented, including Alterra Mountain Company, Aspen Skiing Company, Bemis Associates, Burton, Mt. Bachelor, POWDR Corporation, Ski Utah, Smartwool, and Spyder.
So some activists and some companies that make money from ski tourism want everything to change to protect the climate so people can carry on travelling to ski and buy their products. Ummmmm I’m sure there is some logic in there somewhere, Im just struggling to find it
POW partnered with several Yale students to meet with winter athletes during the 2014 Winter Olympics at Sochi to promote a more open discussion about the effects of climate change.
I can see flying several students from a very expensive ivy league university half way around the world for a meet and greet with [likely USA based] athletes would be very effective.
Yea, I'm inclined to agree that cycling is, in theory, somewhat resiliant to climate change
Deadly heatwaves, increased flooding, droughts, crop failures, the spread of tropical diseases etc -- all falling most heavily on the Global South -- then the massive displacement of people that will cause along with a disintegration of globalisation and the supply chains that currently make biking possible, I think that will all occur before the trails themselves become unrideable
TBH there’s nothing ‘we’ can do that would change anything in our lifetime. Even if we all stopped now it’s going to take tens maybe hundreds of years before the benefits are felt on the planet. So whilst ‘we’ may change and help, we’d be helping future generations only.
That's nonsense
TBH there’s nothing ‘we’ can do that would change anything in our lifetime. Even if we all stopped now it’s going to take tens maybe hundreds of years before the benefits are felt on the planet.
Nature appeared to do pretty well for itself in the months after the world stopped going outside in 2020…
Booked an uplift at BPW online and noticed I can 'carbon offset' by giving money to TEMWA.
Not convinced by being preached to by globetrotting sports personalities - a bit like when multi-gazzilionaire Bono asks me to give money to charity.....
I agree that something needs to be done, whether that's me riding to work a couple of days a week or recycling more etc.
TBH there’s nothing ‘we’ can do that would change anything in our lifetime. Even if we all stopped now it’s going to take tens maybe hundreds of years before the benefits are felt on the planet. So whilst ‘we’ may change and help, we’d be helping future generations only.
That’s nonsense
I agree, and even if we were to only slow climate change there is no excuse to continue polluting our own environment.
I'll bet that if I asked my 12 year old daughter about climate change this evening, she'd come up with very similar suggestions to PoW, but without needing 100s of £1000s of donations.
I think we're mainly into the 'mitigation' phase now. Where we try to prepare for inevitable global impacts while still trying to limit the increase.
The problem is not whether climate change induced weather will make cycling less appealing, but whether the economic and societal shocks it produces mean that our generation, or more likely the next, simply can't afford to spend time and money on leisure activities.
Not convinced by being preached to by globetrotting sports personalities – a bit like when multi-gazzilionaire Bono asks me to give money to charity…..
I agree, the messaging around this kind of thing can be a bit sickening
The problem is that the Chinese, for example, probably feel exactly the same way when the Tories or the Republicans or Piers Morgan say 'why should we do anything when China's emissions are so big?'
Climate change is a colosally big collective action problem and it's incredibly hard to work out how to move in the right direction without some inherent degree of unfairness or hypocrisy
Look, I don't deny climate change is a big problem and we should do more about it - I've spent the past 30 years working in climate change research - just the idea that it has anything much to do with cycling is obviously silly and doesn't pass the sniff test if you think about it for a few seconds.
Cycling requires very minimal infrastructure and can be done on a shoestring with minimal emissions. It's a super efficient way of travelling (an e-bike powered by a solar panel is miles ahead of literally anything else you can think of, including walking, when you consider how to fuel it) and the sport aspects are also only as messy as you want them to be. It's just a completely ridiculous hook to get people concerned about climate change, even worse than the silly habit of hyping up the threat of British summers (let alone winters) being slightly less miserably cold for most of the country (we can only hope).
just the idea that it has anything much to do with cycling is obviously silly
Cycling requires very minimal infrastructure and can be done on a shoestring with minimal emissions
Contradictory, much?!
Also, when it comes to mountain biking, the regular destruction of the more wild areas we want to use (storms, wildfires etc) is very much of interest to… er… mountain bikers?
the silly habit of hyping up the threat of British summers (let alone winters) being slightly less miserably cold for most of the country (we can only hope)
Well, as you’ve been involved in research in this area, you’ll know that’s not what’s expected by most people in the field. “Slightly less miserably cold” isn’t the issue, or the concern.
you’ll know that’s not what’s expected by most people in the field. “Slightly less miserably cold”
But the field aren't Joe public and aren't [any meaningful percentage of] the ones we need to change
climate change will impact cycling if your trails are regularly washed away in a flood or lost in a forest fire.
an e-bike powered by a solar panel is miles ahead of literally anything else you can think of, including walking, when you consider how to fuel it
Is it heck. Have you seen how they make ebike batteries, the pollution, environmental damage and chemicals involved. The ask how many are actually used as vehicle replacements v toys for leisure
cycling is the wrong term
cycling is getting about by bike, and is an efficient transport method for short journeys.
consumer driven mountain nonsense with plastic wireless tat that you drive in a car to use is a recreational hobby that burns lots of climate tickets.
I’m talking about how e-bikes can be used, not how they are used. But also, there’s a big wide world outside of the e-MTB toys that some of you possibly use. I first noticed the rapidly growing use of e-bikes a couple of decades ago by women ferrying their children to school and taking their shopping home in Japan. The battery in an e-bike is around 100th that of an e-car.
UK is once again an outlier on ebikes - most of the rest of Europe they are either utility vehicles or are older folk pootling around for leisure
Only this week I was sat in a meeting where one of the UKs largest water companies were back pedaling (excuse the pun) on a new large scale water infrastructure project (which if implemented would devastate MTB trails in a national park with 20million people living within 1 hours travel time). The need for the project has been brought about by climate change and water scarcity risks over the next 30 years. The project has been put on the back burner for the moment, however may be brought out again in a a few years, and will be replaced by smaller scale projects, which also pose a risk of restricting/ preventing a generation of MTB cyclists from enjoying large areas of a national park.
No we don’t, because as has been discussed at length on other threads unless all the worlds governments agree to do something meaningful then it’s a waste of time
In terms of scale I get what you're saying but it's also convenient blame shifting and buck passing for people who don't want to change.
Carrying on doing what we do suits them just fine. They also won't change while we don't.
Yes the govts are serving BP and Shell etc but if we all (for ex) stopped flying it would inconvenience us but uses our capitalist votes well and change would happen. If airline demand plummeted other enterprises and investment would fill the gaps in time. A practical fix/argument for a fast fix, no. But change happens slowly then quickly (like the climate will I suspect). It's the type of change we can all make, mostly, and now.
Like flying to ride ... the unfortunate truth is that we can all make more difference to our C02 impact by not flying anywhere. That means we lose out or do less nice things while watching others carry on regardless. But carrying on 'because they do' is inaction and being part of the problem. Pick a side, I reckon.
I say all that as someone struggling to do a job that doesn't involve flying, I can't change the world, I can only work on it and make my own changes.
UK is once again an outlier on ebikes – most of the rest of Europe they are either utility vehicles or are older folk pootling around for leisure
emtb were the norm in verbier this year. Else are the only people at the col de Mille who hasn’t used e-bikes
The need for the project has been brought about by climate change and water scarcity risks over the next 30 years. The project has been put on the back burner for the moment,
In order to protect shareholders interests?
In order to protect shareholders interests?
More because it's a massive and very costly project and involves unpopular things like destroying large chunks of National Park (which was kind of how those reservoirs were built in the first place but that was before inconvenient things like legislation and environmental protections).