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This bike check is either the worst timing or the best timing, depending how you look at it. And what happens next.
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By ben_haworth
Get the full story here:
https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/bike-check-benjis-orange-switch-6/
I mean the really obvious single pivot brand would be Starling.....
It’s been said by many an internet typist, but the ‘problem’ with Orange bikes is they haven’t changed for decades. Which, in one sense is true. The brand still makes single pivot full suspension bikes. For some people, the silhouette of mountain bikes is all they look at. These people are the reason why bike brands have to reinvent themselves every three years. And have teams of marketeers permanently spin spin spinning their alternative facts as to why they’ve gone back to the drawing board.
Damn those customers with their fickle, shallow ways and those pesky 'internet typists'.
That's brilliant.
Comrie Croft bikes have a Stage 6 in a really lovely green glitter paint - I keep lusting, but realistically I need a shorter travel bike.
Ah so it’s customers fault that they are having problems 😂
I think most of us would wish there was more standardisation of ‘standards’ etc
Why does the article avoid the much talked about high prices too?
Having a pop at your own customer/typists is always an interesting move
https://giphy.com/gifs/finals-study-jason-bateman-65os7odbIW6pa
Having a pop at your own customer/typists is always an interesting move
You might think that, but you're just an 'internet typist', what do you know? Next you'll be saying that Orange bikes are expensive and a bit ugly and that Rwanda is an unsafe country 😉
Anyone with an ego so fragile as to be upset by being labelled an "internet typist" would have already found something else to flounce about.
There are two brilliant aspects to the single pivot design on this Switch 6.
The near linearity of its progression.
Insane levels of 3D traction.
I thought Orange significantly increased the progression?
They were regressive before, so they probably did
Quote from Benji's NBD
With the New Switch 6 we have also updated the bike’s kinematics. Sporting 160mm of travel and a more progressive feel. The original Switch 6 was almost completely linear while the newest version has a real working progression of 6.2% considerably higher than the original bike (0.7%).
I came here to say Starling, and to question what in hot hell's name is 3D traction? But that's already been covered so I'll just add:
Curtis.
And to balance out the above I've always liked my Oranges and think it's a damn shame.
Glad it isn't just me wondering what 3d traction is...have I only been riding in 2d??? Has the marketing spiel not been thrown far enough away from this article?
"3D traction"
Actual LOL at that one. Particularly given it was prefaced by a moan about fashion and marketing killing a brand.
Can we have a comment about square edged hits as well to get a full house of bike journo bobbins?
yeah starling
and pipedream
i do hope orange stick around though
"Insane levels of 3D traction [ AKA lateral compliance, chassis 'give'; helps maintain traction on cambers etc ]."
Edited in this explanation now. It wasn't very clear before was it? Soz! 🙂
And yeah, good shout about Starling etc. Ta!
AKA lateral compliance,
Is that code for the back ends still flex sideways and the tyres can still rub the stays
The bike industry needs brands like Orange
Surely the bike industry needs companies that make bikes people want to buy.
Find it strange that people who don't like a certain brand spend so much time following them around on the forum to comment. Bit too much time on your hands?
Not a huge fan of the down tube on this as it makes it look wonky, much like many other bikes from other manufacturers.
Yep! My Curtis. Love it.
The green frame a few comments above is lovely. I test ride a Five years ago and really liked it and they are one of those bikes that I just associate with mtb in the UK. This one does look a hoot though and nice to see a not RS or Fox build.
Comrie Croft bikes have a Stage 6 in a really lovely green glitter paint – I keep lusting, but realistically I need a shorter travel bike.
OMG that's sensational.
Have you had a look at the Stage Evo? Such a great fun bike and surprisingly light.
Have you had a look at the Stage Evo? Such a great fun bike and surprisingly light
You ranggg??
My Large Stage Evo. More fun than a barrel of monkeys..! Every time I ride it, which up until December was most days, it amazes me how capable it is - definitely punches above its weight. Probably the only thing I’d swap it for is a Stage 6.
My Large Stage Evo. More fun than a barrel of monkeys..!
My medium. What a stunna eh?
I was ready to buy an Orange frame in 2022 but constant reports of them cracking put me off, nothing to do with fashion.
Orange's USP is their simplicity, they need to stop chasing lighter weights, instead make them durable as hell, slim down the range and keep on top of geo and suspension design, nothing wrong with single pivot.
@mildred 's frame above looks so much cleaner - is the awful downtube on the Switch purely for the storage box? Price not worth paying if it is.
Storage and space for water bottle.
Yep, I'd rather go without both and keep the frame style I currently have.
The seat tube is also quite a lot shorter on the newer frame design by the looks?
Personally I prefer the visuals of the previous incarnation, but the ability to have a bottle on the frame and to have more standover are not insignificant benefits. Storage box in the frame I'm less convinced about but maybe it's actually ace.
common sense from Benji as always, i am lucky enough to have four bikes for different disciplines, like most of the readers i am involved in a variety of out door activities , kit needs maintaining and i want to be doing stuff, the orange works its simple and reliable, the good design allows more time for fun. Perhaps a more positive attitude from some contributors would be more realistic, at 70.5 i think i have some experience of what works and what does not contribute. x Griffo
Current bikes allow a bottle under the down tube, i thought? Even if not, wouldn't be that hard to accommodate one with a few smaller tweaks.
Insane levels of 3D traction [ AKA lateral compliance, chassis ‘give’; helps maintain traction on cambers etc
I'm surprised to read this, because (as a big Orange fan and Stage 6, 4 and Evo owner in recent years) I've found them very much on the tighter side in terms of chassis compliance.
That's part of the appeal because they're fast, fun and very engaging as a result, but they are chalk and cheese with my Starling - which genuinely does smooth things out when it's leant over.
So you think this new frame design significantly increases chassis compliance Ben? Or are you benchmarking against even-stiffer carbon bikes?
Personally I prefer the visuals of the previous incarnation, but the ability to have a bottle on the frame and to have more standover are not insignificant benefits. Storage box in the frame I’m less convinced about but maybe it’s actually ace.
I agree, the previous version is better looking. Regardless if I were buying I’d go for bottle and storage, appearance be damned
. Regardless if I were buying I’d go for bottle and storage, appearance be damned
I'm very curious how much weight has been added to get water bottle space and storage though.
And whether that eeb-esque downtube now allows a longer stroke shock as well, or any other claimed benefits like that.
Maybe Ben could ask Orange?
I can't find it now but there is/was a video of Steve Peat, Hans Ray and Danny Mac riding Torridon trails. Danny was on an Orange. Slo-mo of Danny riding over some bumpy stuff - the back wheel is twanging all over the place side-to-side...I'm not sure I'd describe it as stiff by any means - you don't tend to see it at normal speed, but I bet a single arm to a wide mounting point in the middle is going to twist quite a lot when it is bouncing over variable terrain.
That Torridon video must be 10+ years ago now.
The split swingarm design feels pretty tight IMO.
Probably the most cringey, over defensive thing I've ever read on here. And that pink thing is utterly hideous.
It reeks of "everyone who doesn't like me is a hater."
Survival of the fittest Orange, make stuff people want to buy and sell it at a competitive price, don't go into administration. Simple.
Disclaimer: I have owned 4 Oranges. In the old days when basically everything was crap, Orange had the advantage of being simple and reliable. Now there are too many other far superior options and far more acceptable prices.
3D traction? Oh you mean its a flexy frame?
At risk of a pile on re the “3D” comment, perception is everything in the absence of data. I give you….
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/orange-stage-6-factory-review/
They say the whole back end is so very very stiff it holds off cambers well, completely contrary to this review that says of camber grip is aided by flex lateral compliance.
Survival of the fittest Orange, make stuff people want to buy and sell it at a competitive price, don’t go into administration. Simple.
After Covid and the no supply/over supply issue it really isn't, is it?
After Covid and the no supply/over supply issue it really isn’t, is it?
I don't know what you're saying because that sentence is an ugly mess but Covid has nothing to do with what Orange's designers put on their drawing boards.
They're stuck with only one way to manufacture frames and it's no good. Everyone else can use 'tubes' with zero issues but Orange have to make everything look like a GCSE sheet metal project.
Grins on a L Stage evo here and if you have good eyesight you will notice the shock sag o-rings indicate a fun morning.
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Short travel, single pivot for the win 
now with added dropper.
It is my first Orange bike.
don’t know what you’re saying because that sentence is an ugly mess but Covid has nothing to do with what Orange’s designers put on their drawing boards.
They’re stuck with only one way to manufacture frames and it’s no good. Everyone else can use ‘tubes’ with zero issues but Orange have to make everything look like a GCSE sheet metal projec.
I thought the article was being a bit unnecessary about "internet typists", but maybe not.
@ben_howarth elro are your uk distributor of formula and stock everything
I thought the article was being a bit unnecessary about “internet typists”, but maybe not.
Everyone who doesn't like Orange bikes is now a typist.
Meanwhile, outside the beard-bubble of STW, the reasons why Orange are going down the pan are blatantly obvious.
I don’t know what you’re saying because that sentence is an ugly mess but Covid has nothing to do with what Orange’s designers put on their drawing boards.
Ah, right, you're one of those.
We're all guessing as we don't know but I imagine not being able to get hold of your big selling frames from the Far East (the ones made from 'tubes') or complete group sets to put on the frames you can make, while still having to pay everyone 'might' have had an impact? Probably not though, you seem to know better.
Everyone who doesn’t like Orange bikes is now a typist.
No, just you being a bit too intense.
I like them, a lot. Each to their own...
Those Stage evos you lot have look really nice.
But that article, jeez.
I had a selection of late 90s/turn of the century Marin FRS bikes. Turns out their prodigious '3d traction' was way ahead of the curve.
"Survival of the fittest Orange, make stuff people want to buy and sell it at a competitive price, don’t go into administration. Simple"
Leading the race to the bottom. Keep buying cheap shit from China and **** the environment and everyone else.
Happy with cheap clothing made with slave labour in China too ? That's what the people want. Give people what they want. And **** them, it's their fault for being Uyghurs.
Great approach. That's why this country is so in the shit.
Competitive pricing =/= cheapest
robertajobb
Great approach. That’s why this country is so in the shit.
Well, that and a small minority of idiots who voted for the country to be in the shit
@ben_haworth What's that mudguard you're running on the Selva please?
Any issues with the crown coming down lower than the arch at full travel and hitting it? It's mentioned at the end of this review https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/components/forks/suspension-forks/formula-selva-fork-review
Had the same issue on my Pike Ultimate, the Mudhugger EVO version mostly solves it.
And this review says https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/formula-goes-uber-premium-with-the-new-selva-r-fork/
Of note here is that the 29er version of the Selva has about 174mm of stanchion showing for the 160mm of actual travel – so even if your O-ring isn’t making its way to the top of the crown on the really big hits, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re not using full travel.
So even if there's an issue at 160/170 it might be fine at 150.
Keep buying cheap shit from China and **** the environment and everyone else.
You know all the Orange hardtails come from the far east don't you, and probably 95% of the components attached to the bikes. Never mind that China is the world's largest primary aluminum producer so it's highly likely the sheets that are folded and welded in Halifax come from there too so I'm not sure you're grumbles really stand up to anything.
Had the same issue on my Pike Ultimate, the Mudhugger EVO version mostly solves it.
Just been informed by Mudhugger that Formula has just tested that one on the Selva and there's no issue.
In the car world we no longer have an industry because the cars were rubbish (Morris Marina anyone?)
Orange bikes may be divisive, but they work really well, maybe their looks aren't to all tastes, but they are/were British.
Be careful what you wish for, style over substance seemed to be a theme from Benji, when all bikes look the same, perform the same and are just average, consider we had choice and chose a different brand, jobs, skills and huge investment should be cherished and nurtured, not just derided without trying first.
Looks pretty indestructible... if that's an XL, how tall is @ben_haworth ?
(18" seat tube plus 210mm dropper = probably very tall...)
185cm
@Ben_Haworth what settings are you running please, and your weight if you don't mind?
There's quite a few aren't there, so spring and rebound would do.