Amflow PL Carbon Pro: first ride review

Of all the Eebs out this, this is the one i understand the least. Unless using for racing and an uphill speed stage then i simply don't get it's purpose. I find even a 60Nm bike plenty out on the trails and sometimes WAY too much as it kicks you at the wrong time, let alone something with double the power.

Once you factor in the 15mph which they're determined to keep enforced (and i'm fine with that) then i understand it even less.

But from what I've seen it has lots of control options so you can just down tune the modes and get increased range most of the time but you have oomph if you really want to use it, it gives optionality.

I suspect they're playing smart and only want to build one motor option to be put into anything (keeps costs down) so this gives as good as it gets power compared to full fats for the weight of an SL/mid power. Give the freedom for users to tune and what's the downside?

Well that's like buying a Lambo and having it restricted to 125bhp.... it seems somewhat pointless.  Especially if when you unlock the power you're in the middle of town and can't use it.

I can't see a world where you 'need' anything like 120Nm.

for me, 70Nm with a battery that could last 50+ miles makes more sense.

It's not though is it. Buying a supercar comes with limitations, they're crap to take down the shops, luggage the kids around in, etc.

It's more like having a sleeper estate car that you can drive around normally in but give it the beans if you want to take it to the track. There's no downside to it.

My understanding is you can control the available torque & power and it will give you your 70nm and get close to the 50+ miles range, for the same weight as a mid range that will struggle to do that.

the point is obvious... its for getting to the top of steeps climbs as quickly and easily as possible for as many downs as you can....

Yeah, you don't need that for a rolling 50 mile xc loop, but then I would say an e-bike for that purpose is of less point...

Combine this and the pinion MGU and you pretty much have my ideal 🙂

Looks good to me, I would just need that motor system in a more enduro frame, and some evidence of longer term reliability plus evidence of what the vendors support is like when it does break, both inside and outside warranty periods, before I spend my own cash on it.

My current ebike will probably need replacing in 2 years, so the timing should be good.

So much of bike reviews comes down to the prejudices/preferences of the person writing the review:

The geo of the Amflow is within a few mm of the Orbea reviewed a week or so back. Same travel - 160/150.  I think the Rise has 5mm more on the reach and a few mm less on the chain stays, half a degree on the head/seat angles depending on the geo mode.

Orbea - Pro's - Excellent Geometry - "In terms of geometry the Orbea Rise LT is on to a winner. Not only because of the aforementioned seat tube and resulting acres of dropper drop and standover, but also because of the principal angles. The head angle is 64°. The seat angle is 77°. That is a fine pairing. The reach is pretty generous"

Amflow - Cons - Geometry could be more up to date. Head angle // 64.5° seat angle // 77°

(also fitted with the same fork - Amflow - "The Fox 36 is a great fork. I didn’t even really notice any harshness from the Grip X2 damper" vs Orbea "The new GripX damper in the Fox 36 fork feels significantly less comfy than previous 36 dampers"

I've just weighed my new Rise and it's basically the same weight as the Amflow (a little adjustment for mud hugger, some mud, smaller battery) . I guess their launch bike needed to get headlines somehow to break into the market - and a (more than) full power Trail bike for the same weight as the best of the 'mid power' or 'lightweight' bikes will do that more than one that's a full power enduro bike that might be a bit lighter than the competition but doesn't have a weight that sounds impressive (heavier wheels/tyres/fork/rear shock etc and you'll add a few kg).

The review does confirm what I suspected - that the massive power and torque isn't really that special/useful but again it gets more headlines than 'it just rides better'. Smaller motor, (user imposed) limits on power& torque to get great range is probably where it works best.

Combine this and the pinion MGU

But then you'd have two motors - and it sounds like this one is more than enough anyway 😉

My two cents: Getting less interested in eebs generally, but maybe when they bring out a half fat one in future - if it similarly smashes the competition.

Two thoughts/questions looking at the images in that review.

- it might just be the angle but rear Tyre clearance looks pretty tight both to the sides and in front.

- what's the wire for near the rear mech? the speed sensor appears to be on the brake disc on the other side, and I thought the battery was built into the Transmission mech.

– what’s the wire for near the rear mech? the speed sensor appears to be on the brake disc on the other side, and I thought the battery was built into the Transmission mech.

Its a hotshoe - you can run the mech off the main battery.

Well that’s like buying a Lambo and having it restricted to 125bhp…. it seems somewhat pointless.  Especially if when you unlock the power you’re in the middle of town and can’t use it.

It's not though is it? It's more like VAG putting the EA888 in every single fastish VW, Skoda, SEAT, Audi, so they don't have to make a dozen different engines.

The 'headline' power figure in this case is exactly that. It makes this bike newsworthy. Without those numbers no one would look away from the main brands long enough to care.

Question for Benji/STW - Why does the bike need a SIM card, what does it use the 4G for?

You say you didn't use the app, but this might be the first bike (I know of?) that's phoning home?

(I noticed on the website checking the size of a XXL that it includes a "SIM card removal screwdriver" in the box, so looked at the manual and sure enough, needs a nano sim for 4G)

I can’t see a world where you ‘need’ anything like 120Nm.

see

gears

disc brakes

suspension

dropper posts

etc

etc

What's the pivot/bearing hardware like? Do they appear built to last or to save weight? Spares?

– it might just be the angle but rear Tyre clearance looks pretty tight both to the sides and in front.

There's a 2,4 in there with enough clearance but I'm not sure you'd fit anything much bigger. (I'm just looking at one now...)

Ebike power maths has always baffled me - I understand under the EU pedelec limit that 600W=250W

- is it also the case than 850W=250W?

And 1000W>250W but that's fine because it's only for 30 seconds?

This looks ideal for the SW (mainly Devon at the moment) where there is a lack of long, steep enduro descents so a long super slack bike is wasted and actually a bit less fun. Now I live in Devon I’ve been looking at all the new e-bikes and thinking there all just a bit too DH orientated for the DH down here. This looks like it’ll be just right for knocking out tons of short laps, trips to trail centres, BPW and still be capable of handling Tignes, Morzine, Finale, etc in the summer.

As much as we want the latest, LLS enduro bike, realistically a decent Trail bike suits much of the UK most of the time.

now I just need to start saving up

Quick question

If a motor is more powerful, but still govorned at 15mph like the others, would that potentially mean that it should last longer due to not needing to be thrashed as hard to get the same power?  Like the difference between tuning a 1.3L Astra to 120bhp vs a 2L Astra running the same power?

I understand that engines and motors are different but i just remember everyone tuning their 1.3 Novas and Astras to 120bhp and watching them go bang while my 2.0 Cavalier could match them for speed and power at much lower revs).

f a motor is more powerful, but still govorned at 15mph like the others, would that potentially mean that it should last longer due to not needing to be thrashed as hard to get the same power?  Like the difference between tuning a 1.3L Astra to 120bhp vs a 2L Astra running the same power?

Ebike motors when used in mountain bikes rarely last long enough to wear out, they usually fail from water ingress or pedal strike before they get anywhere near wearing out.

 fail from water ingress or pedal strike

Sorry for the tangent, but what does failure by pedal strike entail?

The impact shock transferring and damaging the motor somehow?

yes - impacts damaging internal components and bearing/seal failure (like a normal BB)

in terms of hte bike - 150mm travel is fine for most UK riding. even jumps n stuff. as level most people know you can smash through most of BPW happily on a 150mm bike - including the blacks.

160/150mm is perfect for a lot of stuff in the UK unless you’re enduro racing or doing some extreme stuff.

That geometry seems pretty decent (maybe the reach is a little short vs some other brands at 475mm for a large) too - will do steep tech alright / trail centres / natural bridleways etc etc.

The headlines are eye catching but the branding and aesthetic are a lil Chinese looking for my tastes if you know what i mean…

Top tube might be a bit Raleigh Vektar, but the motor casing looks neat. Wireless controls make sense as well.

How is the touchscreen in the wet or with gloved hands?

I rode one around the car park in work for about 10 minutes last night. It feels like an ebike! The boost mode is pointless on the flat - I was up to the 15.5mph limit very quickly, within maybe 20-30m, when in boost. I tried spinning the wheels on loose gravel but failed. I couldn't get the touch screen to do anything with bare, dry hands, so maybe was doing something wrong. I'd be interested to try a longer, proper demo but I'm not in the market for an ebike anyway, so may be the wrong person for this bike.

aesthetic are a lil Chinese looking for my tastes if you know what i mean…

Yes, it looks a bit "catalogue" and the flowing lines feel a little dated now that other brands are moving more to straighter tubes and squarer edges.

It's still pretty decent looking for an eeb though.

@IA - I have asked Mr Amflow UK. Will let you know the reply.

@Weeksy - I think you kind of answered your own question/bafflement ("I find even a 60Nm bike plenty out on the trails and sometimes WAY too much as it kicks you at the wrong time"). This motor has immense power but even more immense response/control of it.

From the website FAQ

Can I control Amflow PL via 4G when it's powered off?

When Amflow PL is off, you can use the Avinox app over a 4G connection to check its battery level and location. If the bike's location is abnormal, you will receive a notification from the Avinox app and can choose to remotely authorize unlocking or maintain the locked state and silence the alarm.

Features related to 4G network communication require the additional purchase of a SIM card and are not available during data roaming.

"I was a bit less convinced by the ‘strictly trail bike’ remit of the bike but if Amflow can tweak some geometry numbers (and/or introduce some flippy-chippy geo adjustment), this thing would be unbeatable."

Ben, on the Amflow website in the video section, it shows you how to turn the flip chip around. This is done when putting a 27.5" rear wheel on the bike as opposed to the 29" it comes with. Unfortunately I couldn't find any geometry data for this geometry set up.

A riding friend has taken delivery of his - the pro 800Wh version.  It's a lovely thing, and feels as light as my 320Wh KSL.  Can climb ridiculous hills on it in boost, but need to be careful not to loop out.  And even on lowest setting it makes a mockery of my KSL 1.1.

It'll be a very interesting 12-18m seeing what other brands do to counter it.  I can't imagine Specialized etc. not bringing something out to match/beat it.

My pick would be the cheaper 800Wh version for £6k.  Still a lot of money, but spec as good or better than other equivalent bikes like the KSL/LSL

Once you factor in the 15mph which they’re determined to keep enforced (and i’m fine with that) then i understand it even less.

That's in the UK and Europe, class 3 ebike cutoff in the US is 28mph and I'm guessing they plan to sell a lot over there

A trunnion and clevis mount for the shock. That's like going to dinner with Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy.

So had my own ebike now for 3 weeks, and nearly did cancel it to get an Amflow .

TBH I’m glad I didn’t cancel. Some of the reviews coming through now are a bit shit.

My bike has 85nm. Not once have I found a hill where my talent has given up first ie the bike has wheeled or lost traction. So maybe with the extra power you have more momentum do can get up steeper stuff, but then at the same time if I’m not getting up with 85nm I can’t see how I could handle the extra power

Which in term brings you on to the power. It must get to speed limit very very quickly , which actually must be very frustrating.

There must become a point where a motorbike or sur-Ron is more fun

Some of the reviews coming through now are a bit shit.

Got any links to the poor reviews?

Have a look at Loam Wolf on YT

Ive also watched a couple of others that have come out in the last week or so. Its not hard to find them on YT

see

gears

disc brakes

suspension

dropper posts

etc

etc

I'd say for certain types of riding then most/all of those are must-haves. Yes, the beardy rigid single-speeders might disagree but I can't remember the last time I saw one of them where I ride/the type of stuff I ride/there certainly weren't any in the Alps last summer...

500mm seat tube on the XXL (which is the same size as an XL in other bikes) is a turn off, when other bikes have around 450-470mm seat tubes.

Then there's the 'UK winter proofness' of the motor, or (probable) lack of...

Regardless, I don't want or need the stupid power, or the other downsides that come with a full size motor (size, weight, noise...).

Some of the reviews coming through now are a bit shit.

its a bit flexy according to loam wolf - not a huge surprise given the intended use of the bike, and its relative lightweight compared to others. It does sound noticeably flexier than others in its category though, which is why its been called out I guess.

I don’t want or need the stupid power, or the other downsides that come with a full size motor (size, weight, noise…)

apparently its a pretty light motor for the power it has, and seemingly not too noisy. Agree about not needing all the power ,although it'd be nice to have it and not need it, versus (occasionally) need it and not have it.

I'll keep watching for a couple more years on this one - see how it fares for reliability in UK and after care when things go wrong. also need to see that motor in more frames - ideally a decent enduro frame from a known good manufacturer.

My bike has 85nm. Not once have I found a hill where my talent has given up first ie the bike has wheeled or lost traction. So maybe with the extra power you have more momentum do can get up steeper stuff, but then at the same time if I’m not getting up with 85nm I can’t see how I could handle the extra power

Very much this. I find i use trail mode for tech loose climbs. Boost is waaaay too much. But i use boost for long, steep road or gravel sections to get me to the top fast. But even then, with 85nm, i hit 15.5mph very quickly. More oompf just isnt needed unless your going to derestrict it.

A trunnion and clevis mount for the shock. That’s like going to dinner with Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy.

Actual LOL.

Anyone who had a Specialized of a certain era will be wary, but I wonder if many of the riders flocking to buy these will be aware of the perils of these mounting methods?

apparently its a pretty light motor for the power it has, and seemingly not too noisy. Agree about not needing all the power ,although it’d be nice to have it and not need it, versus (occasionally) need it and not have it.

True, and for the full power ebikes market it's a great thing - the 20-21kg full fat ebike is just much better than the 25kg+ lumps of the last few years.

However, compared to a 'proper' lightweight system like the TQ or Specialized 1.2 (obviously they have less power, but that's not always a bad thing) it's still around 1.7kg heavier (5.4kg vs 3.7kg) so not a 'true' lightweight system in my eyes. An extra 2kg doesn't mean much day to day but I'd rather not have that extra if I'm hikeabiking or having to carry the bike over gates etc regularly.

My pick would be the cheaper 800Wh version for £6k.

It looks compelling on paper, but to me that bike is defintely in the full fat category of weight, without any of the benefits. Apart from having a shed load of power. If that floats your boat then fair enough.

I really liked the Loam Wolf analogy of their review of the Amflow bike

They said it s like having a 1000bhp car that is like a rocket ship in a straight line., but after a while you get bored of that and want the less powerful car that is just so much more fun through the bends, no where near as fast in a straight line, but more fun.

The fact that Amflow / DJI were very clear to only choose people who would talk about the powerful motor and battery before anyone else got their hands on it speaks volumes (see that awful arse licking review from GMBN)

I am not far enough in to ebike ownership, but for me the balance is something that handles well, not overly assisted, but has a tonne of power when you need it to just get up the really steep 30% fire road climbs. The amflow looks more compromised towards the loads of power than  bike.

Wait until someone who builds bikes gets hold of it and that will be a game changer.

A trunnion and clevis mount for the shock. That’s like going to dinner with Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy.

when combined with...

its a bit flexy according to loam wolf – not a huge surprise given the intended use of the bike, and its relative lightweight compared to others. It does sound noticeably flexier than others in its category though, which is why its been called out I guess.

like bringing your friend Hannibal Lecter along too...