Zwift Team Time Trial, Thursday

Apologies w00dster. We backed off after the banner to try and let STW go before the descent started but we got a bit tangled. We never seem to get an overtake in easy place when we tangle together - always seems to be on a downhill which means there is little anyone can do about it - gravity just takes over!

Greater London 8 next week so another hill in the mix! Similar gradient and time to complete the hills as well. A lot shorter though!

https://zwiftinsider.com/route/greater-london-8/

I managed to watch some of that last night. You lot rode really well. The tangle at the top of the reverse KOM was more fun to watch than ride I think.

It looks like the new entry system (no more zwiftpower tags...) is going live this week. If it does happen, it will change how we enter on here. I'll post details as soon as they are settled.

Just reading about the new updates on ZI, anyone notice if the new pack dynamics were active? Wasn’t aware of the update so wasn’t paying attention to that, I guess they were though judging by the neat pics of our pace line posted earlier? Must help the TTT as it would naturally make your group bigger as you can’t occupy the same space anymore, therefore the draft zone is bigger?

To me the dynamics seemed better, at least we seemed more lined out than normal.

Quite hard to say.

If the new entry system arrives, that will be a small step forward toward a real time trial mode where other teams don't interfere with each other. We didn't come across any rogue riders last night, although one team was a bit sticky.

The passes went well, i think by not accelerating too soon and being blobbed to the last minute really helps.

I bailed with cramp as we entered the volcano so a bit disappointed, but would have died at some point, having seen the state of Jack today.

I was going to mention the updated dynamics. I think it's a real improvement. The sticky draft is less noticeable and as you say @Zilog6128 we seemed to settle in a paceline more. There was a bit of erratic swerving at times but it felt like the AI was waiting for a gap to slot you back in the line sometimes. I liked it.

It was a really strong team effort last night. Jack really dug in up the KOM. Maybe the longer TTT's with slightly less intensity suit us more?

I bailed with cramp as we entered the volcano so a bit disappointed, but would have died at some point, having seen the state of Jack today

Pass on my thanks - he rode a really good ride and communicated to us well which meant the gap never grew.

@drew you seemed to enjoy the longer rider as well?

Yes, I really enjoyed that, favourite one so far. It really suited me as I was able to recover well on the two climbs and I seem to be able to manage slightly longer distances as long as I don’t have to go too deep along the way. I thought the pacing strategy worked really well too.

Oddly re the dynamics I found them worse and outside of the TTT I can see them playing havoc with races.

It seemed there was a sweet spot of about 5w where I'd hold the wheel in front, anything over and I pulled way over and out of draft. that made passes much easier but trying to stay in a group was more difficult because as soon as I eased off slightly to try regain the wheel I fell off the back as I had no draft and was a fair chunk under the rider in front.
It didn't seem related to my actual power so much either, almost as if it recognised any increase in effort as an attempt to move up. Given that at the best of times my power trace looks like a himalayan skyline that made it hard work.
Worked much better whilst I was in draft in terms of allowing me to deliberately pull forward and seemed better on the passes but deliberately dropping back when I was in draft was rubbish as ever and needed a bit of a kick to break off forward before falling back. If anything it seemed more sticky in terms of slipping back when i was in than before and made sitting in and resting much easier than previously.

(it occurs to me that a few of you mentioned having very spikey power yesterday so could actually be that rather than the change in dynamics)

Pass on my thanks – he rode a really good ride and communicated to us well which meant the gap never grew.

Glad that the feedback seems to be positive (cramp not withstanding).

The new capability to not quit zwift worked well as well. I went in the pen at 7.10. Then left and went back into watopia for my warm up all without restarting Zwift!

For the team I was in the pack dynamics seemed all over the shot. It was like our avatars were trying to perform some kind of complex dance! I thought it was also just a little easier to fall off the back.

Defo easier to fall off the back, happened to me a few times. But the Avatar would often move to the left of the pack and not be sheltered, I’d have to put in a little kick to get back in the group,then I’d accidentally drift to the front.
Looking at my intervals.icu file lots more spikes for me, only small bumps but quite often.
Also looked at my overtake and separation from MoreSTW, 60 seconds average of 336 watts, 20 seconds at 420 watts, for me being 95% into the race that effort was hard work.....luckily we were just getting into the last couple of Km’s where we upped the pace again!

Everyone join pen A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1934716

False alarm (!) - entries haven't changed. Same system as usual for now.

This week it's 1 lap of Greater London 8, so very flat until Box Hill. And the fun of staying together up that escalator.

I'll get teams posted ASAP. Early signups --> early teams!

I'm in 😟

As ever, I don't care which team I'm in but FWIW I'll take at least 8 mins up Box Hill

@savoyad , that link is to zone 11 - 19:15 start. Is that right ? (I entered 12 as usual)

Argh it's the wrong link and too late to edit it now. Don't use that link!

Sign up here, pen A: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1934728

Thanks @scaredypants

Signed up - rather short this week so a good opportunity if anyone is lurking or thinking about returning to the fold as should be over relatively quick!

Looks like the new sign up system is imminent. Sounds like a pain that every rider will need a wtrl account linked to their zwift id and has to join via the magic link!

Yeh I noticed that Nixie - I hope that it doesn't put people off. It only takes minutes to sign up but I am aware that some people are careful who they want to share data with etc. Once you have done it once it should be easier hopefully though!

Yay ! from WTRL.

TTT #101 starts a new era of NO MORE FIXED TAGS.

I like the substance of this change. But I don't like the fact of change - more specifically I don't want extra form filling to be the hassle that puts someone off. Anyway we'll all now need an account at WTRL.

So everyone who rides TTT, please go here and make one https://www.wtrl.racing/registration.php

We don't have to use them this week, we can give the zwiftpower tags a swansong, but compulsion is coming. Let's get ready.

Also: sign up for this week here, cat A: : https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1934728

10 signed up so far. Anymore takers/lurkers?

With regards to the change - Im not sure why WTRL have persevered with correcting peoples tags post event for so long - I kind of view it as tough luck/shit happens if something were to go wrong with the tags and that is the team's responsibility. I certainly wouldn't want to be spending hours doing it for other people.

I hate that WTRL website. It’s worse than Lings Cars. Is there a separate entry form thing there or is it enough to sign up the usual way then WTRL use our Zwift ID?

Signed up and signed on to WTRL. I agree about that website. It's a mess. I'm assuming it's a different protocol from next week onwards...

@paino unfortunately not. After the 2 weeks grace period (this week and next week) sign up has to be done via the WTRL website. You still have to join the event in companion app like normal but rather than setting your tag you will have to sign on to the team through the WTRL website (unless I have misunderstood @savoyad)?

This is where I am struggling to see the benefit for riders as having the tag doesn't cause me any issues - changing in ZP takes seconds, so the benefits are to WTRL (which is fair enough - having run a race series anything to make your life easier is welcome - if you can focus on the racing not the admin it is bound ot lead to improvements)

We can do it the old way this week @paino.

But from next week, you will need an account at Lings Cars. You won't actually need to interact with the WTRL site though beyond signing in: you click the team entry link I'll provide...that takes you to zwift via WTRL (so WTRL register you passing through, but you don't do anything while you are there)...then you enter the correct pen on the zwift page when you get there.

The problem is that way it ties entries to teams messes up our system of all entering the same pen and then dividing into teams later. It won't be a big change.

Teams for tomorrow, so far. Check and set your zwiftpower tags like normal:

STW: @paino, @yanboss, @phil56, @scaredypants, @munkeymadness
MoreSTW: @drew, @mbs, @slowpuncheur, @zilog, @haloric, @robbo1234biking

There is still space in both teams. @dangeourbrain, @w00dster, Jack, anyone else - are you planning to join in?

And @drew congrats on the upgrade to B! I assume the STW series is the driving force? It does that to people.

I’ll publish a plan later on. Will be similar to last week though to be honest. Are people happy with 280w pulls this week bearing in mind it is shorter than last week?

I’m in, can I be part of MoreSTW please?
Really struggling with my fitness at the moment. Gone from 288 watt FTP to struggling to hold 220 for a couple of minutes. My outdoor mileage has increased, I’m not tired or out of breath, but my legs just feel like I’ve got permanent DOMS.

Are people happy with 280w pulls this week bearing in mind it is shorter than last week?

Thanks @savoyad, I wasn’t aware of the upgrade. I knew I was borderline but had been hoping I’d stay on the cusp to help keep MoreSTW In latte. It must have come about during yesterday’s race, if it’s based on 20 minute power it was probably at the beginning as it certainly wasn’t at the end. Seems crazy I’m now a B and robbo is still a C.

@robbo1234biking I’m happy with 280w pulls.

No problem @w00dster. Ride with MoreSTW.

I think you were "almost a B" until yesterday's race @drew, and it pushed you over the edge.

@w00dster what length of pull what you like to do? Cheers

@drew - you are prob still faster than me up the hills!

Robbo, probably 1 min. Going to see how the legs are tonight, only aiming to do 40% of FTP but will do a couple of 300 watt efforys and see how I get on.

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Ill base it on 1 min then w00dster.

Standard plan for rotations. Do I need to state the pull length or can I just say the name now? I think everyone knows how long they are doing.

We need to watch Northumberland Avenue at 3.5km. At this stage blob at 3.0 w/kg and then at the top whoever was on rotation can go again.

At 12km haloric to stop taking turns and rest up for an attack on Box Hill. Once we hit Box Hill it is 3.0 w/kg. Slowpuncheur to pace it and everyone else to sit on the wheel. w00dster to cover the back.

Over the top of Box Hill w00dster can pace us up to the punchy climb and then blob again at 3.0 w/kg. We want to go over the top together so we stay together on the descent. Everyone will need to sprint over the escalator and then lets see where we are there. I think it is only 1.5km to the end after the escalator so will be a case of blobbing and working as a team to get as much pace as we can over Tower Bridge and onto the finish.

It is a short course so hopefully we can push a little harder but just speak up if you are struggling or want to miss a turn. Comms were great last week so lets keep that up!

Start delays:

STW - +5 minutes, so in the pen by 19:40 and off at 19:45:00
MoreSTW - + 9.5 minutes, so in the pen by 19:40 and off at 19:49:30

ok so for someone who hasn't done one before, and doesn't have a clue......

What do I need to do to do this?

P

Hi Paul. You need to sign up through the event link on which Savoyad has linked above.

@savoyad has the rest of the instructions I think in terms of discord, tags etc.

Plenty of time to get that sorted though.

I see Jack in in now as well so a bit of team re-jigging may be required.

Just a caveat from myself. I was lucky enough to get my Covid jab last night. My wife is a volunteer at the vaccine centre and they had a no show and therefore a shot of vaccine left that they didn't want to throw away. Had to get my son out of bed (was just after 8), throw him in the car (wellies and PJs!) and get over there in 10 mins before they shut but was worth it.

I feel absolutely fine now 12 hours after the event apart from a slight achey arm so hopefully have avoided the most severe side effects.

Anyway once I do my warm up if I don't feel right or power is lacking then I may have to withdraw at the last minute. I think it is unlikely at the moment and even if I cant physically ride I am still happy to do the DSing on MoreSTW.

Jack is in. Looking forward to my lead out train.

I've sign up for this early. I'll see you all this evening.

I've signed up to both. How do you 'set' your team?

P

Hi Paul - updated teams will come out about lunchtime (Savoyad rides with another team in the AM time slot).

I am pretty certain that you will be in MoreSTW. We tend to do pulls on the front for a pre-determined length of time and other than that you rest in the draft. You were fine on Tuesday racing me so you will be fine. What I would suggest is that you don't have a specified pull tonight and just get used to working in the draft and the nuances of the TTT and comms etc.

Welcome @paul-s. Robbo's right - ride with MoreSTW but don't have a specified role tonight. Focus on getting out of the start pen at the right time and staying with the team! I'll post instructions, with the teams, in the next post...

It's hard to get the balance today. Bear with me...

OK, teams for later:

STW (+5 mins): @paino, @yanboss, @phil56, @scaredypants, @munkeymadness, @slowpuncheur
MoreSTW (+9.5 mins): @woodster, @drew, @mbs, @robbo1234biking, @zilog6128, @haloric, Jack, @paul-s

Tags can't be corrected after the event. We'll move to race pass links next week. This week, just make sure they are right on zwiftpower (link below)

full info...

1. Tag your zwiftpower rider name with your team name. e.g. "Paul S (MoreSTW)". There's no need to change anything in zwift itself, just zwiftpower. You can do this (durably) in profile --> settings --> Rider name or just for this one race here https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=1934728 --> settings (top right) --> My Name

2. Comms is on discord. The STW server is here https://discord.gg/SfsdY5AD and you'll see the voice channels (each team has one) over on the left. Everyone does this their own way (PC, phone etc, headset whatever).

3. The start process is a a bodge. It works like this: Join the event by 19:40. Then, when it says "GO" you MUST NOT GO! Instead, at that point, you must already be stopped and at 0w. So stop pedalling at around 30 seconds to go just to be safe. Then each team waits for its allocated start delay. Today that means 9.5 minutes for MoreSTW, who will therefore sit motionless in the pen until 19:49:30. THEN you can go. There will be a countdown on discord. If you insist on pedalling and need a workaround to stay in the start pen, go to the PAIRING screen, not just PAUSE, the PAIRING screen.

4. Once the race starts, stay with the team. Bigger group, more draft.

That's it. Enjoy the race. Any questions, ask here and they'll get answered quite quickly...

Oh - and make sure you are on a road bike (esp if you last rode a mtb on Tues...). And dress up as a bumblebee.

Thanks @savoyad - I think? 😉 I'm more than happy to roll with STW. Tag changed. I suspect I'll just be sitting in the draft but happy to take a turn here and there if I can. Looking forward to it.

Updated list for tonight based on the new teams:

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Standard plan for rotations 270/280w target (but adjust if you need to). Paul-S - I have put you as Draft only but if you are comfortable after a rotation or two let me know via discord and I will add you in to the rotations after Drew.

We need to watch Northumberland Avenue at 3.5km. At this stage blob at 3.0 w/kg and then at the top whoever was on rotation can go again.

At 12km haloric and Jack to stop taking turns and rest up for an attack on Box Hill. Once we hit Box Hill it is 3.0 w/kg. Does anyone think they can set a nice pace at 3/0w/kg?

Over the top of Box Hill w00dster can pace us up to the punchy climb and then blob again at 3.0 w/kg. We want to go over the top together so we stay together on the descent. Everyone will need to sprint over the escalator and then lets see where we are there. I think it is only 1.5km to the end after the escalator so will be a case of blobbing and working as a team to get as much pace as we can over Tower Bridge and onto the finish.

It is a short course so hopefully we can push a little harder but just speak up if you are struggling or want to miss a turn. Comms were great last week so lets keep that up!

I'm in for tonight if there's a space?

@speedstar there is space in STW so join them. Just update your tag if it isn’t right! Cheers

Ok no worries thanks Robbo

Thanks boys, that was seriously tough. Probably did a bit too much riding over the past few days as legs were empty from fairly early on. If only I had Phil with me more often 😀

@speedstar well done mate, great effort to hang in there - thanks for sticking with us.

Good solid climb that, Gav - really well done

(is it just me that hallucinates Phil's voice when I'm out and about, then ?) 😉

Really enjoyed that tonight. The sticky draft is difficult to judge though, I used to be able to sit at the back at about 200 watts but now I’m getting gapped off doing until less than 220.
Considering how bad my last few weeks have been tonight’s stats were ok. Last 5 minutes was an average of 325 watts, that’s not bad for me. I dropped back to help Drew bring back Jack and we got gapped really quickly. I was sitting at about 400 to 450 watts and the distance was still growing.

Scardey, not just when I’m out and about....even in bed with the Mrs!! Come on woodster, stay in there, only 2 mins more!!!

Thanks Guys enjoyed that. Felt that I had fuel left in the tank so will have to do a turn next week 🙂

P

Really enjoyed that too, probably the easiest TTT I’ve ridden (it’s all relative 🤣) so probably could’ve pushed a bit harder throughout. That said, I also had put in a bit of effort on occasion so as not to fall off the back! Stayed together really well, only a little gap at the end of the kicker after the climb. All the passes seemed really easy tonight, like the teams we passed were barely moving, which makes it a lot simpler!

That's hilarious. I now know what you mean. I enjoyed that. Got a bit carried away up Northumberland Ave but I will assume that I did OK as Phil didn't mention me much 😉

W00dster 🤣🤣🤣 that is something I did not want to imagine!

Cheers MoreSTW - that went well tonight. The gap grew on the descent pretty quickly. We were barely pedalling and you were doing 5 W/kg!

Stayed together really well on the climb - great effort @haloric glad we got you over the top and taking the bragging rights over Jack - I assume that means he is getting the beers in tomorrow?

@paul-s welcome to the team. Comms seemed ok in the end. Thanks for keeping the pace on the climb. Hope you enjoyed and will be back for more! Next time you can take some pulls now you know what it is all about.

My legs felt a bit wooden tonight but I am on a recovery week as well as the covid jab so wasn’t confident going in to it but seemed ok and no probs with the HR either. I seem to ride better with some fatigue — feeling fresh is a strange feeling! Still 813w on the escalator says there wasn’t a lot wrong with them!

Oh yeh zilog - forgot to mention the overtakes - we didn’t even have to accelerate. Just breezed past. We didn’t get overtaken either.

Tonight had the "new" zwift draft, didn't it ? (No riding through people and a bit of a change to the draft effect). I reckon the sticky draft when overtaking might not be as big a problem with it but that probably also means that you can get dropped that bit easier from your own group. I also bet that times overall are a bit slower overall than might have been expected

"come on scaredy, fill the gap" - that sort of thing ? Yeah. 😍

(I see wtrl is down)

Yeh they are down.

Apparently they know if you left the pen early now so you get a 1min penalty plus another full minute for for every part of a minute you left early. It is automated so a minimum of 2 min penalty. Hopefully we didn’t fall fowl off that!

Were you really on an MTB @Scaredypants or a legacy of a late bike switch? Hopefully you had the lockout working.

semi-slicks mate, pretty much a road bike 😎

(or else I changed at 3 min to go when Phil said "I bet some dozy arse is still on a mtb" !)

Thanks for that - holding 3.0 up that climb was pretty tough but knowing that we were sticking together was a big help.

Jack took his eye off the ball as we hit the top, and couldn't get back on, despite the encouragement.

I didn't get much rest other than while on the downhill waiting for Jacks minders, but the pre-hill ride was pretty smooth rather than bursty efforts, which was helpful.

I found myself drifting through the front when not meaning to, usually after a brief downhill event, but the pulls were very consistent from everyone.

Cheers, Ant

I actually found it quite tough this evening, definitely harder than last week. Maybe still feeling the effects of Tuesdays race. Thanks for getting me back on Woodster, I’d still be there now if you hadn’t waited for me, and to everybody else for waiting. Not an ideal time to slip off the back. I thought I’d be able to catch back on again with Jack but soon realised that was not going to happen.

Looking for morestw in the results and wondering if I've messed it up for you guys somehow? I changed my name in zwift in the afternoon believing it would automatically update zwiftpower but it clearly doesn't so I raced as (morestw) according to zwiftpower. Is there any way this can be corrected? Sorry if I've messed it up

@speedstar Zwift and Zwiftpower aren't linked so you have to do them separately (but you only have to update in ZP for the TTT). Could be why as we would have 9 riders then so assume we got DSQ (although you think they would say that in the results!)

I wouldn't worry about it though. You can email them but it prob isn't worth it. Think we came in at 40min 17 seconds so about a minute behind you guys. Would have put us about 80th in Latte (and we would have beat @mrhoppy team as well! 🙂 )

Tags wont be an issue next week as we will use the new sign up process.

Couldn’t find the MoreSTW results either. Very much doubt if you affected the result by changing your tag.
Fair performance from STW last night on a decent short route. Great to see speedstar hanging on up the hill. Captains orders to gun it up the final kick split the field with the 4 of us super tucking all the way down to the flat. Think we generated a 20 second gap without even pedalling!
Edit-ah yes, didn’t realise you guys had a full team. WTRL says we had 6. That would explain it!

Coulda, woulda, shoulda @robbo1234biking 😛

Not that their result had much to do with me, we were nearly 1st on the road at the bottom of Box Hill so I very valiantly suggested I'd try what I was calling the "evergreen" tactic and block the road as they went on. Didn't work.

https://zwiftinsider.com/route/watopias-waistband/

Next week is fairly short and flat again. Don't think I have ridden this route before.

Ok I've emailed them and messaged them so hopefully they can do something. Apologies again! Also we just lost more and more time on the descent once we split so you guys must have been gunning it!

Next week is fairly short and flat again. Don’t think I have ridden this route before.

Totally flat so will be taking pulls the whole way round with zero opportunity to have a rest! At least it’s short although normally that means we just ride harder 😂

Also we just lost more and more time on the descent once we split so you guys must have been gunning it!

Also we just lost more and more time on the descent once we split so you guys must have been gunning it!

It’s the effect that cresting the climb together gives you. None of us were pedalling, but all 4 were super tucking on the descent giving us the massive gap. Didn’t matter so much last night as the descent was near the end, but just shows how important it is on a TTT to crest together on hills mid course.

Only the first 4 riders count right?! I hit a PR coming up Box Hill mainly due to Phil's incredible mentoring as I had no legs even by the bottom of the hill and was fully ready to quit! Managed a paltry 4wkg over the last rise which is worse than most of my PRL full attempts as I simply had nothing left to give.

Have I got this right: the one week, ever, that tags can't be fixed (a policy @robbo1234biking endorsed wholeheartedly as "tough luck/shit happens"!) is the week we get a dq for a tag error?

New system from now on.

As soon as I have recovered from reading @w00dster's post above I'll supply some details.

In the meantime: everyone will need a WTRL account from now on. If you don't have one, you can prepare for the brave new world by signing up here: https://www.wtrl.racing/registration.php