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I am in - that might not be the best course for me though so hope I don't slow you up!
Treated myself to a new bike for the course as well - the S-Works MTB. Have load of zwift drops with nothing to spend them on and apparently it is like 2 seconds faster on that route!).
MTB or gravel?
MTB is quicker than gravel according to the zwiftinsider link that Savoyad posted
The first few km are on road though. Is it possible to start on road bike and then switch to MTB when we hit the dirt?
You can swap but you have to come to a full stop before you can change bikes and I think that would cause more issues in getting back together in a cohesive team than it would the time saved by changing but open to other opinions?
You can swap but you have to come to a full stop before you can change bikes and I think that would cause more issues
Even if you did it seemlessly I don't think you'd make up the time lost to stopping.
That said it's all about grins not wins
It's Road to Ruins (from downtown on road, up to and round the jungle dirt, back to downtown on mainly road) where seamless bike changes can be a worthwhile strategy. I don't even think it's worth it in a race because you just trade the reduced rolling resistance for a lack of draft as you time trial back to the group you were in to start with. Twice. Anyway, it can work because there is a lot of road either side of the dirt on that one.
The Jungle Circuit itself, which we'll be riding, is different. There is a lead in (5km?) down from the start pens and this might well be normal surface (I haven't ever paid attention) but it's not enough to be worth changing bikes for.
The main reason I just made the choice of MTB was to make sure we all do the same thing - otherwise someone will be making life really hard for themselves...I'll probably still forget (or, worse, start my next road race still on the mtb).
You can change it in the pen before the race starts so we can double check everyone is on the MTB via discord before we start.
I still have images of someone getting of their turbo and then swapping their road bike for their MTB on the turbo itself rather than in-game!
My thinking is that for the 5km of pavement leading into the dirt the road bike crr of 0.004 is going to save about 50Watts compared to the MTB crr of 0.01, with CdA on top surely that's going to be at least 10s/km quicker which more than offsets 20-30s cost of stopping and switching bikes.
But also just wanna do it because Bike changes are winning and cool
Power ups will be enabled for Thursday's race. 1 for each lap.
I still have images of someone getting of their turbo and then swapping their road bike for their MTB on the turbo itself rather than in-game!
I've got that covered 🙂
Hi Chaps,
Any room for a first timer this week?
PeeSBee STW
Hi PeesBee - are you on Zwiftpower? I saw you had signed up but couldn't see you on Zwiftpower which you will need to be to count for the results.
I'm entered but currently feeling very heavy legged...
I’m hunting for a quieter start pen (for a shorter start delay, and less traffic on the course)
Well, that didn't work.
Start delay this evening is 12 minutes. So we have to be in the pen by 18:30 and we're off at 18:42.
[NB - event start is 18:30 tonight rather than 18:33 as A is three minutes ahead of D. So in the pen by 18:30, stopwatch start at 18:30]
@weeksy - heavy legs are neither unusual nor unwelcome!
@peesbee - definitely room for you, I'll do a separate post specially, hang on...
This sounds a good crack. I'll be up for some of this once the weather turns, and I start training indoors again.
@peesbee - yes, there is of course room for you. Presumably that is you I already see on the start list? You do need to add "(STW)" [in brackets, no quote marks!) to your rider name in zwiftpower so that the results system counts you as part of the team (it's independent of the "team" functionality in zwiftpower, presumably because some zp teams have loads of entries in the TTT).
Logistics as follows:
- join the event by 18:30. When the screens says "GO", stay absolutely still (in game) for 12 minutes. You probably need to stop spinning the pedals 30 seconds or so before 18:30 to make sure you're at zero watts when it says go. Don't pedal at all during the 12 minute delay.
- comms are on discord. join the STW server here: https://discord.gg/MVneMU and you'll find us shortly before race time in the STW voice channel in there. It's easier with comms. But it's possible without - watch for the start at 18:42, and just ride silently with the blob.
- someone (Phil?) will monitor the time, count us down to 18:42:00 and shout go. At that point, go.
- we are not tactically sophisticated. we try to ride as a supportive group and all get to the line together. If gets scrappy, we work to regroup. If you get dropped, you'll usually get towed or encouraged back on. basically stay in the blob, and it'll be fun. there's no pressure - just contribute whatever you can (and even hanging on the back helps the blob draft so speeds up the team).
- finally, and for tonight only - equip yourself with an MTB or Gravel Bike (whatever is already in your garage, it's not compulsory to splash out like robbo) as it happens to be dirt tonight.
See you in the pen!
Hi - Im on Zwiftpower, but can't work out how to edit my profile to add STW - any ideas?
I'll pick up an MTB - i've got plenty of drops to spend!
I'll try and use Discord - but previous attempts have not gone well.
Click on your profile (top right corner), then clock Zwift profile, on the second line down from the top its says settings, go in to that and you can change your name.
Cheers robbo - sorted.
I'm debating playing with the reality slider, but not sure which way to go, more realism or less... I'm at 50% which is where i always have it... but wondering if i could stick to one end and just TT it...or whether to go the complete opposite and have full reality and see if can power the hills.
https://zwiftinsider.com/wtrl-ttt-71/
Hadn’t seen this before. Quite a handy guide.
Weeksy - I tried playing around with the slider but found 50% to be the sweetspot. Really didn’t like the way it felt on 0% and prefer to keep it on the big ring on the front so wouldn’t change to 100%
I'm just going to try and make it to the bridge for 1 lap, anything else is a bonus 🙂
Turn left at the t junction after the lead in - will get to the bridge quicker! I’ll be right with you!
no words for just how crap that was from me.
Jesus my climbing speed is HORRID !!!!
I'm throwing the turbo out in the stream and taking up walking.
Sorry I had a few issues this week.
Thanks all - that was hard work!
That was a tough one this week. Sorry I dropped off on the descent on the 2nd lap.
3 times up that climb was tough but pretty happy with the 3 attempts.
1. 7.21 at 258w average
2. 6.42 at 296w average
3. 6.58 at 282W average
So fairly consistent. Our three lap times were all within 23 seconds of each other. We overtook quite a few teams as well so think we should be pretty happy!
Couple of teams got in the way right at the end though again!
Cheers guys really enjoyed it again.
Haha, at times our most cohesive ride I think (the first few km, lots of the last lap). But at other times we were, um, shambolic. We were scattered 400m apart at one point. Noone's fault, the course and circumstance opened gaps and sometimes they refuse to be closed. I enjoyed most of it though. My comms broke (again; I know why now! my headset goes to sleep and I can't wake it up without getting off the bike) so I don't know how much I missed in terms of trying to get us back together.
I don't like change, so I think we'll be better back on a normal road surface without double draft next week. The entry is in: 1 lap of Greatest London Flat, so 31k which we've ridden together before.
@peesbee, it's normally hard work but slicker overall than last night.
@weeksy your first walk can be out into the stream to get the turbo back.
I think i need to work on both my TTT and Discord skills. It's difficult to stick as a team, especially when overtaking/being overtaken and that route does seem to pull people apart.
As for Discord, I mainly heard random sounds and the occasional 'can anyone hear me' - was it me or is that how it works?
No. Comms are usually better. We are usually pretty good at coordinating overtakes (either way) and regrouping when necessary.
Overtaking and being overtaken is hard but we're getting better at it. Yesterday was unusual though. There was a lot of traffic, not just teams but dropped riders (I saw some grumpy outbursts from other teams in the chat...) because of the multi lap format. That makes it harder, as does being spread out when a pass starts. Which happened to us yesterday.
Next week should be more representative.
Also apologies to Tom - it took me a lap and a half to realise you were part of the team!
I think at least 4 of us were having issues with Discord yesterday. Tom had no comms at all don't think and other had varying degrees of issues.
Greatest London flat sounds like a better fit to me.
When I said this the other day, I thought I was joking:
I’ll probably still ... start my next road race still on the mtb
But it's exactly what I just did. I don't really know if it would have mattered, but I sat up. I'll try again later (bike is now changed again). Don't be like me.
Oh don't apologise, I was all over the place yesterday.
Overall impression I got is that TTTing offroad is challenging because of the extra rolling resistance/lower speed.
Stuck in an over-running teleconference, set up in a hurry indoors for the first time because it was raining, couldn't connect to discord in the panic, zero warmup and straight into a sprint because I was slow to react to start, I could see the Zwift messages but no access to keyboard to respond.
On the first lap I seemed to be going off the front on the climbs, I did see the time gaps forming and tried to slow down but setup made me akin to stall and fall off the rollers at lower power, which happened a few times.
Then going into the 2nd lap I found I was overheating, fan not actually circulating air as it was next to the wall, I stopped to try and move it but it was still crap and then it took me ages to get back to the group - the pace seemed to pick up. I was running pretty hot and struggling - the last 5km seemed to take forever, I produced an impressive sweat puddle which did not impress wife.
Sounds like you had a nightmare there!
I am pretty lucky I think that my zwift set up doesn't cause me any issues like this and I am able to leave it set up in the lounge!
LOL funny stuff... I was sitting there on the climb thinking "Come on fellas i don't have 3.5w/kg" and even though my HR wasn't peaking it was still pretty high and i struggled as you guys guessed. Then my recovery on the down was fine, but as soon as we hit the climb again, you were up around 3.7w/kg and i just can't do that. I then told you to go, which was lucky as about 30s later my turbo/power started playing up.
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This is my setup. Can reach the fan, keyboard and phone from seating in the bike. Couldn’t imagine doing it on rollers and trying not to fall off!
Category A this week. Enter here https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1042582
1 lap of Greatest London Flat, 31km.
All welcome. If you're new to the team, post in here so I can add all the necessary info.
I am in!
Some info here:
https://zwiftinsider.com/wtrl-ttt-72/
Will stick to the Tron bike I think for this one. Assuming we are in Latte this week then 45 mins of pain...
Yep - maybe a little longer...last time there were 6 of us, riding in frappe, and our time was 46:17. Me and weeksy unhitched on the steep ramp up the stairs/escalator near the end and never got back on. zilog did a superb ride that day.
Provisionally in, not sure how long for but I should make the start line!
Can you guys hear me very well on the discord server?
I use these and push to talk but not sure how much fan noise gets picked up. My wife looks at me very confused like 'we need to push here' and relates it back to child birth I think!
back in this week after a brief break (moved house & some bits needed sorting. Still not got the new pain cave up & running yet though so will be in the office as usual 😂)
If there is a space I'd like to join - my usual team are spread far and wide this week.
I'll try and register...
Ok, registered/entered - Ant Mitchell (ccxl) will change tag to STW.
My wife looks at me very confused like ‘we need to push here’ and relates it back to child birth I think!
I hope you told her it's not as easy as that.
I won't be out to play this week swim away with mrs brain but will be back next week.
not at the moment for me guys... i'm still recovering from the humiliation of the jungle loop last week.
Will there be a discord channel ? Last link I can see has expired.
Good morning all. Here are the details for this evening...
Our start delay is 11.5 minutes. So in the start pen by 18:30 and we're off at 18:41:30.
The start sheet looks like this for now:
phil56
savoyad
twisty
zilog6128
robbo1234biking
haloric
I thought I'd find @ivandobski there. Sign up here Ivan, cat A: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1042582
There is still space if anyone else wants to join. Same link.
@haloric - welcome! You're an old hand at the event itself aren't you? So you know the "stop pedalling at GO....wait for the start delay" routine? Here's a working discord invite: https://discord.gg/zYqkBx we use the "STW Voice" channel in that server.
@weeksy no worries. there was nothing humiliating about the jungle though. even allowing for your aversion to hills, it was not a particularly normal ride last week. you've done this enough times to know that!
Thinking of giving this a go later if there’s room? Technically I’m on call for work so not a definite.
I’m a Cat B, so will I be out of my depth entering the A race?
Zwift name Paulo Paino (STW)-do I need to change the STW bit in Zwiftpower too?
I'm not yet sure if I can join in this evening, will be there if possible though.
There's room @eat_more_cheese. Don't worry, it's not an A race. The TTT uses the categories in its own unique way Cat A is mainly for teams which are mixtures of B and C. Our current line up for this evening is BBBCCC. So you wont' be out of your depth (in fact, if everyone rides you'll even nudge us *up* a category - that isn't something we pay any attention to but should put your worry in context).
Yes, you would need to append (STW) to your zwiftpower name (Settings, Rider Name) - the organisers use that and not in-game zwift names to match people with their teams.
Discord link is above.
Start procedure is odd: you STOP pedalling when the screen says GO, and wait there without moving for 11.5 minutes for our actual go - which will be shouted over discord or, failing that, just go at 18:41:30 with the rest of us.
@ivandobski - no probs. see you there if you make it!
Will be good to have a full team tonight on that course.
as said, not an A race, plus we have a "house rule" that we go at the speed of the slowest rider - unless they're done in & want to be dropped!! (which is discouraged 😂)I’m a Cat B, so will I be out of my depth entering the A race?
Great, pending a work call, I’m in! In on Zwift. ZP seems to be temporarily down so I’ll change the name later. See you guys later (Paino)
ZwiftPower appears to be well and truly borked today, is that going to affect the results?
I'm now tentative whether I'll make it this evening due to other commitments, need to see if I have time for everything.
I've completed a time trial with the wrong tag and they have allocated it to the right one after a post race e-mail - they seem pretty laid back about it all.
I will try the discord server, but normally just end up transmitting my fan noise, so will keep my mike off when possible. I'm expecting a team leader/ responsible adult to shout a name to go on the front, either Ant or Haloric whichever comes to mind, unless there is some other system !.
As a larger lad I will suffer on any rises, but should be able to get back on.
Team kit ?.
ZP being down is possibly due to the seamless integration with Zwift coming in to play...
ZP is back up so should be able to get the tags sorted.
We use the bumblebee kit.
Someone will do the countdown on the discord server so you don’t need to worry
We aren’t that co-ordinated to take goes at pulling!
I'm in.
Somethings come up & I'll have to bail out, apologies! Looks like they'll be a good team for tonight though, definitely be back next week!!
That was a tough one tonight but good to have such a strong team. Set new PRs for 40 mins - that was right on the limit for me tonight. Cheers for the encouragement Phil - I could have easily given up. You weren’t a Rugby coach in the past were you?
Great effort all - we didn’t get passed and got past 4 or 5 teams and pretty much held together the whole way once I got back on!
Cheers guys, enjoyed that. First TTT, and first use of the discord so excuse my lack of muting!
Thought we held it together really well. Massive turns on the front by Phil. Chapeau.
One question though....Is there any way of warming up in the pen? Paino.
We were looking pretty good but when we hit that climb and the pace went from 350ish to 550ish I knew that was going to be the beginning of the yo-yo'ing end so just called it straight away.
Phil is our Stannard
There is a way of warming up in the pen - but its not for the faint of fingers:
See 'keeping warm' here: https://wtrl.racing/ttt/TTT-Rules-and-Info.php
I've seen a number of riders coast through the start because they weren't in the pairing screen somehow.
Personally I get off the bike and stretch/yoga like for a while.
Thanks for the ride - right on my limit I think.
--
Ant
@ivandobski - hills are the death of teamwork !.
I hope I didn't contribute to the dropping out - for whatever reason I cannot hold a consistent pace up a hill, the technique that works for me on short hills is to hit them very hard at the bottom, hold it as long as I can, and then cruise at the top until we regroup, eg on the rise out of the tube line I was first over the top whilst being one of the weaker riders in the group overall, but I got some recovery time.
I've found that on group rides if you are rider who comes over the top last you do not generally get any recovery - because everyone is kind of waiting for you, and that leads to you being dead after the hill and struggling for a while.
I prefer to go harder initially and get a little recovery time.
Better obvs would be to organise and agree before hand to give the last over the top riders some recovery time if they need it before the pace goes back up, that way you know you are going to get back on without immediately getting dropped again.
One other thing is that we were never lined out very often, which is the most efficient use of effort, but very difficult to do. You need to have a nominated line order and a 2m gap, so everyone knows where they should be. That takes practice at lower power levels before you can do it at higher levels.
That said - last night was probably the quickest I've ridden - so what do I know !.
hills are the death of teamwork !.
Well next week will be fun then, 2 laps of Harrogate world's circuit.
One other thing is that we were never lined out very often, which is the most efficient use of effort,
Way back in the general zwift racing thread someone linked an article on Zwift insider about this.
https://zwiftinsider.com/speed-tests-ttt/
Overall its the best use of effort (saving about 8% overall W) but for a given speed you need a lot more effort (13% more from the front rider) on the front and a lot more organisation.
Any gapping and having to catch back on and it very quickly stops paying dividend.
More importantly though it also requires a bit more serious prep and practice which tends to detract from the fun a bit.
Thanks for the ride guys, thought we were smashing it yesterday, the extra numbers helped, we passed lots of teams, perhaps a fringe benefit of being in Pen A but much nicer than being passed by other teams. I had a bit of a tough patch from 20-30 mins ish, I perhaps need to eat more in the afternoon but despite that my fitness actually seems to be improving slightly, which is a little surprising considering my low training volume 🙂
Yes to get better times the way to go about it would be to be more organised into a paceline as that is much more efficient than having several riders churning at the front, also setting pace as being conservative at the start and having negative splits is much better than being a bit too keen at the start and having gaps/positive splits towards the end. It'd need a race strategy/roles planned in advance though e.g. whose taking turns on the front and in what order, target pace for each sector of the race.
That said it makes everything a bit serious and also the best laid plans go to waste and more planning needs more comms. during the race to keep things on track.
Yesterday was a good ride. I thought we smashed it too.
I think we could have stayed with @ivandobski for longer, to the end really once it flattened again, but he knew how @Phil56 would react to him dropping off so pulled the plug! There's chat in the other thread about it being too hard for C riders, but the whole point of the event is to mix categories, so it might be worth making a concerted effort (in advance, just by chatting it over) to get everyone to the finish.
We've talked about the pro's and con's of paceline v blob before. I agree with @dangeourbrain - even if it is faster the costs in terms of preparation, taking it too seriously etc outweigh the benefits. Our line up changes each week. Our main obstacle is keeping the mix of riders happy. It seems to work well for us to informally contribute what we can. It got us in the premier league one week as well, so it can't be that bad.
My picture froze near the end. I thought I had tried to keep pedalling, but the initial hesitation did for me and by the time I pulled the cable and went back to the laptop screen I was over 1 minute down.
Entry is in for next week: 2 laps of Harrogate, 27km.
Enter category A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1055240
We've ridden this course before - team of 4 riding in Latte and it took 48 mins. We came over the top of the hill together both times, so it is possible.
It really pushes my limits so think it helps me to ride with faster riders.
That will be a tough course for a TTT with the hills! I should be in. My little lad starts back at Beavers soon which clashes with it. It depends if they are doing meeting via zoom or back in the hut.
Harrogate is my least favourite Zwift world. Probably the one where I get dropped the most...but I’m in for next week again pending any work issues.
I think overall we did really well last night, we were bunched nicely for the most part. Apart from losing Ivan we kept a tight unit, even after that horrible underground climb! Be interesting to see where we came overall.
Be interesting to see where we came overall.
We were 179/419 overall, and 100/141 in frappe.
I might try and drop in to the STW team for this week as my usual BRT team make me look like an ace climber and I'm not sure that would be good for anyone.
I am in for this week but this will be my last week for a while as my son restarts Beavers via zoom which is 6 until 7 and I need to support him during that.