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I've entered two teams for Thursday, 7.40pm. Just one lap of Casse Pattes - flat, flat, flat, then a pretty hill, plunging finish. It's short for a TTT at 24km.
I don't think the new entry system is going live quite yet for the TTT. So for now sign up to category A here:
https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1459574
And I'll assemble the teams nearer the time.
The new entry system (assuming it comes to the TTT as well, it was trialled last week so presumably it's imminent...) just favours the way bigger teams do it: canvas rider availability, then allocate teams, then sign up on zwift. I've stuck with our process because the new way round involves an extra step and means committing earlier in the week. We'll live.
I'm working late for this coming weeks race. I'll be back, for future ttt's, I hope 😂
Hi everyone. Five entries for the 24km Casse Pattes TTT on Thursday so far. So space for plenty more. All welcome, teams and pace will be adjusted to suit the available riders.
Join in here, category A:
https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1459574
Hi all
We are currently on 6 entries for tomorrow's TTT (1 lap of casse pattes). So that's one good team already but plenty of space for more riders as well.
If you are interested, sign up to cat A here:
https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1459574
I'll post final details, start delay etc tomorrow lunchtime. And maybe another "reminder" in the meantime...
@savoyad I've signed up. Do I have to add myself to the STW team again on Zwiftpower?
@benman great. Yes you'll need to tag your rider name again. Bear with me and I'll say how (it'll either be STW or MoreSTW) tomorrow lunchtime...
I'm in work. No chance of me materialising back at home either as I'll be actually working 😭
Just a suggestion but if we have the one team of 7 riders tomorrow then I think you should drop me on the climb. I am at least a minute behind everyone up there and 2 mins behind Phil's best time. Everyone else in the team is a lot quicker up the hills than me so it will be 7 mins of Z2 for you guys whilst I try and max my HR!
I would suggest that between the Aquaduct and the bottom of the Pettit KOM I put in a big shift and 300W plus to give you guys some rest and set you up for a good run up the hill.
If you go at my pace up the hill it will literally add 1 minute onto the time if not more.
@robbo1234biking absolutely not - that's not how we roll. We'll climb at a pace that's comfortable for everyone and get everyone to the finish together - that's the 'Team' bit and the only reason I join these TTTs
Good try @robbo1234biking.
You can have the same conversation more breathlessly, but with the same outcome, over discord later.
Completly agree with Phil, if our dropping folks was likely to be the difference between top 10 and 110 it might be worth a consideration but we're in this for the team thing more /rather than the results.
Also much as others might be quicker up the hill solo easing off a bit on the hill alows the quicker riders to work harder and longer on the flat with a bit of a recovery. We always do pretty well on hilly courses and I think the difference between us and a lot of others is we take a more team friendly steady* pace on the hills.
*not exactly bimbling mind!
Well my best up there is 7.29 - I want to get sub-7 so I will shelter at the back on the flats and put in my best 7 min effort to get us over the hill as quick as possible then! I managed 300w for 6min41secs on Tuesday so should be able to do that.
I know I've pretty much quit the TTT but to me racing as a team doesn't have to mean finishing together.
As per Rob's request above, I'd feel much more of a team player and get more satisfaction from doing something like that and watching the remainder of the team do well whilst I ITT to the end than be the last man holding the team back.
This seems to be an opinion a few others share as well so it may be worth considering racing for results but with people doing the best they can for the team within that. The weaker climbers pulling on the run-in and dropping off etc etc.
I think this would make it a more interesting tactical experience than just "ride as hard as you can" and there's probably a lot of scope for jumping up the rankings and having more targets to chase this way.
I'm in, haloric jnr should also be there, and I'm reminding @mbs to check in.
I see the arguments for and against a team finish, I'm ambivalent (and also slow up the hills), but I would not object to the fastest group pushing on in the last 5k, when its clear we are all going to finish, it means that everybody should end up with a good workout, those with power to spare can drag who they can to the line.
Although going solo off the front is bad form, I'm looking at you @mbs...
I’d feel much more of a team player and get more satisfaction from doing something like that and watching the remainder of the team do well whilst I ITT to the end than be the last man holding the team back
I think its easy to overlook how much "not being a team player" actually does help the group.
It would be different at the pointy pointy end where everyone is knocking out 5w/kg average but we're in a mixed group and a category of mixed groups. (admittedly on a course like today the dropping riders thing would work less badly where its flat then a climb to the finish, though I think it's <6% so draftable?).
Every extra person in that train means the stronger riders can recover better, which means they can pull harder on the front. Having someone who can make consistent of pulls at say 280 in third wheel then rest at 200 in 5th or 6th means front man can do 450w + pulls and rest in the back at 150. That means the whole group goes faster. Take that 280 max effort rider out and rear wheel has to find another 50w, which means they're losing 50w on their pulls at front. At our level every rider you drop slows the group and, in a mixed group, the slower riders you're forced to have simply can't put out the numbers on the front to make it worth burying them - in a proper 1hr ish race for myself race with no recovery, (when I'm on form) my normal 5minute power is about 370w, my 1 minute is 400+, and I'm not the strongest rider in our group. The TTT usually sees me with a lower avg power than normal but it also sees my highest 30sec power consistently 500+) and I'm usually aiming for 400 on the front, repeatedly, and it needs to be for at least 1min at a time to pull forward take front and stay there for a 30 second stint. I simply can't produce those numbers time and again without folks in the middle.
For the weaker riders to be serving the group better on the front wheel doing a big pull then being burnt instead of in the middle you'd need to be doing a big chunk over that & for a lump of time. Using my numbers if it costs 1 pull at 400 dropping to 350, you'd have to do 450 for a pull to make up for that, 1 pull each for me and 1 other and you need to be doing 450w for a minute and a half to make up for it and so on, if we're looking for 30sec on the front if you drop in the last 1.5 minutes it's not a huge loss as everyone should be rested ish fit their final pull, otherwise you'd need to add 50w to "my" effort for every 30 seconds above that, so 5 minutes from the line you'd be looking for 450w for 4 minutes+, (or 750w for a minute if that's your poison 😉 but then everyone else has to keep up with that too.) and those numbers are to keep the same pace, not go quicker.
I get it might feel a bit less like you're contributing in the middle of the group but it's absolutely important to the team.
And for w/kg on a climb?
Anyway - I thought it wasn't about efficiency it was about "feeling" part of a team.😉
Crikey Brian think that can be summarised as TLDR:
I get it might feel a bit less like you’re contributing in the middle of the group but it’s absolutely important to the team.
🙂
Anyway looking forward to it tonight as always!
Anyway – I thought it wasn’t about efficiency it was about “feeling” part of a team.😉
Absolutely - but surely you'd feel like more of a team if we're winning? 😉
But in a more sensible response - I get it completely, everyone (me included) wants to be Tom Brady, no one wants to be Aaron Donald. But unless you get to the end having had a lovely pootle in zone 2 all the way round and everyone else is blowing, you're definitely part of the team.
So do as you're told and feel like it damnit. 😂
Is there still room or have I missed out?
Still room w00dster - join away!
@dangeourbrain Its all about the hit - surely you want to be Lawrence Taylor - then you get a film career in retirement as well?!
If we're on 8 and you want a spot you're welcome to mine woodster. Was an early start today so I'd be happy to get home and ride straight away rather than a later one if that works out better for other people too.
Signed up, happy to be in the MoreSTW team as I reckon my legs will be dead after Tuesdays race.
Teams for this evening:
Team STW, zwiftpower tag (STW)
Start delay 12 minutes so in the pen by 19:40 and off at 19:52
@benman - sort your tag
@phil56
@dangeourbrain
@yanboss
@w00dster
@trolo1234
Team MoreSTW, zwiftpower tag (MoreSTW)
Start delay 5 minutes so in the pen by 19:40 and off at 19:45
@scaredypants
@zilog6128 - change your tag
@robbo1234biking - change your tag
Jack - sort your tag
@haloric - change your tag
@mbs - sort your tag
@w00dster if you really don't fancy STW just ride MoreSTW and leave STW with 5. I've not taken you particularly seriously though and that team makes more sense with you in it.
Don't underestimate the Aqueduct KOM. It can be really disruptive, surprisingly hard to stay tightly grouped at that point and then awkward to regroup on the gentle descent after, especially if there's traffic.
And remember the Petit KOM carries on climbing, at 10%, for 100m or so beyond the KOM banner.
12 mins sat stationary in the pen. Brrrr my garage is cold, I'll have to do star jumps!!
Are we going on Discord again?
Sorry, yes: each team has its own discord voice channel. I just got lazy in my typing.
You can pedal in the pairing screen (but NOT the pause screen, you have to go into pairing) without moving forwards in the pen.
Thanks for organising Adam!
apologies MoreSTW, something's come up, going to have to bail on tonight's ride!
Ok - I've regestered for this evening's race and changed my Zwift Power tag to MoreSTW
Cheers
Catch you later/
Nothing serious I hope zilog.
Thanks, yeah nothing serious!
Sorry for the no-show. Becoming a bit of a theme for me, work's gone totally nuts this week
No trouble scardey, happens to all of us and frankly keeping the lights on is more important, not much more but a bit.
Cheers for the ride guys. I needed that, unfortunately I've now gone from fall down tired to wired!
Cheers @mbs @haloric and haloric jr. really enjoyed that tonight. Some great turns by @mbs on the front and thought we worked really well as a team. Did a really good pass. Got a little disjointed when that team passed us but stayed together well on the aqueduct and Martin did a great job pacing us up the climb - we even managed to pass a team. Shame we lost Ant on the climb. I think Jack got caught out at the top of the climb as the top of the climb isn’t the arch so we split a bit on the descent but managed to regroup for the finish. Think we finished on 39 mins dead. ZP might be struggling so might not see the official results for a while. Thanks all! Good start to the year.
Really enjoyed that, group stayed together really well. Phil did a great job calling the shots 👍🏻
Was Ian on a mtb or just on my screen?
Think we had a tag issue. W00dster had a MoreSTW tag but rode with STW so our final time was based on 4 crossing the line not 3 as we thought - so it includes Halorics time. Makes W00dster’s time look slow mind as it think he set of 7 mins earlier than he did! 😂
Would have been 39 mins but we got 40mins and 7 seconds instead. Good effort up the hill Haloric.
Yeah sorry about the tag issue!! Noticed it after the race. zwift was correct but zwiftpower wasnt, sorry!!
Was really hard to go to the front to do any work on the flat, managed it a couple of times. I’d have to put in a 400 watt effort, drop to 330 watts and remain there for 25 seconds.
Also shows how rubbish I am at drafting, 3.9 w/kg sitting in the bunch.
No worries mate. Hopefully the new sign in system in a couple of weeks will solve issues like that occurring.
Great effort from Team STW tonight - from the start to the finish line, including up the climb, you could have covered all six of us with a blanket! We passed four teams I think, really crisp passes as well. Time of 35.30 isn't to shabby either - great effort guys.
I joined on an MTB as hadn't changed from Tuesday. Swapped whilst in the pen and the bike changed for me, didn't feel any harder than usual so assume it just didn't update the graphics on your screen. I've missed Phil's excellent race control the last few weeks whilst in the other team, love it.
Hi all. Two teams are entered for Thursday 7.40pm. The course is Watopia Figure 8 Reverse, 30 rolling km. It's a great course making its first appearance in the TTT.
Enter category A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1500887
Also: as discussed briefly above, changes to the entry process are on the horizon. WTRL are moving away from zwiftpower tags in favour of dedicated team entry links, which combine entering the event with connecting riders with their teams. This will mean we need to change process, because linking event entry and team allocation this way will mean I'll no longer be able to browse the entries to see who is riding and allocate teams. It will mean a very simple google sheet and probably a need to commit a bit earlier each week than at present. No change yet, but be warned and watch his space.
I love this course. Really enjoy pushing on the two hills.
This video is pretty good as well.
https://zwiftinsider.com/how-to-ds-a-ttt/
The spreadsheet could be handy if we are to be more organised but our blob approach does work. Could show where we went wrong doing standard length pulls as well before xmas rather than person specific pulls. Also says to start 3 seconds before the official time. Blob up on the climbs as we do and set a w/kg that everyone can keep.
Interesting as well as Phil does most of this whilst still riding the course with us! Basically we just need another Phil.
Entered 🙂
Hi all. If you have arrived here via @robbo1234biking's link in the race series thread, you are very welcome to join us. We usually field two teams each Thursday evening and the event rules favour mixed ability teams. Just enter the event (link below), and I'll post all the info first timers need. Or ask if you have questions. Or browse the thread, it's getting long now but the basic info appears a few times.
We have 7 riders signed up for tomorrow so far. Plenty of room for more. Sign up to category A (everyone, it's not done by w/kg for this event) here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1500887
We're on 9 riders. That makes two small teams...
... unless more people join in!
7.40pm, figure 8 reverse, sign up to cat A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1500887
If it helps, we have short start delays this evening.
Keen to give this a go but can't do it tonight, will try to keep next Thursday free, I'm on a teleconf so might log in and just watch!
Don’t mind backing out if you want a big team. Looks like I’ve got a snowman building day today anyway!
@savoyad I'm going to be free on Thursday nights for the foreseeable as lockdown's put the mockers on our Thursday night running group. So I'm tempted. ZP has me as a 'C almost B' (although @robbo1234biking has already bumped me to B for the race series -thanks!;). It's a course I like. How close to FTP do you typically get? I did an under overs session last night so not exactly rested for it.
I've signed up for this evenings race.
I had to bump myself to B for the series as well @slowpuncheur! But I would imagine you would be about 90-95% of FTP as an average. As it is your first one just hide at the back to get used to it. You will be strong on the (admittedly short) hills tonight.
@paino numbers have swelled (11 and counting) so we're definitely better off with you than without if the snowman making leaves you with enough energy.
@nick great. If you do watch tonight, it'll make more sense if you listen in on discord as well. you can join the server here https://discord.gg/74JFwwdG and you'll see the voice channels in use. You'll need to join the event to see the riders I think, but at least I know you don't intend to ride so I won't allocate you a team.
@slowpuncheur that's good news. there's no typical intensity. it's a very good workout, but there's a few ways it can turn out (and you generally have control over which!). If you pull on the front the whole time, you'll get a new ftp. If you spend the whole race practising your minimum-power drafting successfully you'll be comfortably sub-threshold. Have a look at the w/kg on old zwiftpower rides at the breakdown for all the riders in the team (stalk @phil56's profile for the most complete set, click through and filter STW, and bear in mind there are usually two teams nowadays, you'll see). You'll be fine though. Try it and see!
Everyone interested, sign up here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1500887
I'll post some teams around lunchtime.
@zilog6128? is jack riding @haloric? @w00dster? anyone else?
Thought I’d already signed up? I’m in anyway.....
Yes, Jack will be in - signing up now.
Depending on how productive my afternoon is I may have to cry off this evening.
I've lost half the day due to the weather so really only just starting work 😕
Will see how the day goes but it's looking likely to be a late finish.
Teams for this evening:
Team STW, tag (STW), discord TTT (STW)
start delay 3.5 minutes, so in the pen by 19:40 and off at 19:43:30
riding in frappe
@benman - sort your tag
@phil56
@paino
@w00dster - sign up, and check your tag
@munkeymadness
@yanboss
@dangeourbrain
Team MoreSTW, tag (MoreSTW), discord TTT (MoreSTW)
start delay 4 minutes, so in the pen by 19:40 and off at 19:44
riding in latte
@trolo1234 - change your tag
@mbs
@slowpuncheur - tag your rider name IN ZWIFTPOWER (not zwift) by adding (MoreSTW) to the end.
@robbo1234biking
@haloric
Jack
It's reverse figure 8, so
- straight into the esses: awkward to stay together, but early so still fresh
- reverse KOM: stay together, there's a long way to go
- full CW lap of watopia flat: this is a long flat(tish) section where time is won and lost. careful in the esses when your minds start wandering ahead to...
- forward KOM: needs no introduction
- ocean tunnels home: more boring than the other way, but welcome at this stage!
If you want to ride more organised, the big opportunity for that is between the two climbs of the KOM, that full lap of the flat. There are other times it works, but that's the main sustained bit.
We are now drifting into a one frappe/ one latte setup each week. Speak up Bs and Cs if you have preferences (esp negative ones!) or not about which you prefer to ride. It'll mean mixing it up from week to week but I'll try and satisfy most people most of the time...
I’ve signed up, there’s a tick next to my name and Zwift has added it to my calendar. I just Unticked and selected it again.
Zwiftpower is also correct (this week!)
I'm unable to help slow down a team this evening. I have had to send my trainer away to be looked at under warranty to see why the Bluetooth connection doesn't connect to the app provided by the manufacturer.
@slowpuncheur you are on the discord channel already aren't you? If so you need to join the right voice channel. Hopefully you have some headphones you can listen in on as a minimum. I will do a countdown to us starting. Stop pedalling one minute before the start of the race and I will let everyone know when we will set off 4 minutes later.
Thanks for sorting Savoyad.
I totally dropped @slowpuncheur in at the deep end there didn't I? Here's the background to robbo's advice:
The start procedure is a bodge, as there's no way to set teams off at intervals, so you have to BE STOPPED when it says go, wait for your team's designated start delay, and then GO. The organisers tidy the results up. Today, for MoreSTW that means waiting for 4 minutes after GO. Don't pedal during that time or you'll roll forward. Go when robbo says go (or, if there's a comms failure, at 19:44:00 when you'll see everyone set off).
@w00dster I still can't see you, but I trust you.
Just checked Zwift Companion from another device and wasn’t listed as going, selected it from that device so hoping you can see me now....
With regards to Latte or Frappe, personally doesn’t matter to me. I’m not there to win medals, just have fun and a good workout.
@savoyad and @robbo1234biking. Thanks. I think I'm sorted for ZP now understand the start procedure. I guess I'll be directed to the event 5 minutes before as usual (at 7.35?). I assume I can use the Tron bike? Most importantly, what jersey and how high can I have my socks?
Forgot to say, I've got the Discord channel and headphones with a mic. Not sure if it'll work on push to talk but at least I'll hear you.
Bee jersey. No socks. Tron is a good choice.
Normal event join - I wouldn’t leave it to the last min as sometimes it can be busy and people don’t get in the pen in time. Checked your zp profile. The moreSTW bit needs to be in brackets.
I’d sort of decided to give these a miss for a while but am now finding it harder to resist the urge to sign up. I’ve failed miserably in taking part in the race series so far and am missing not joining in a Singletrack group event. What’s more it would give me an excuse to have that post ride beer I’ve been denying myself all weeek. I’d probably be loitering somewhere near the back of MoreSTW for most of the time but if that’s ok I’m happy to put my name down.
Hi Drew. Sign up! That puts MoreSTW up to 8. Put a MoreSTW tag on your ZP name.
Ok, signed up. Just need to change my tag and lose the socks.
I'm going to cry off folks, still got a good couple of hours work I need to do but I need a break so going to jump on and clear my head and legs shortly then back to the grind stone 😕
Trying to convince my Dad to join MoreSTW for next week. I've got him on ZP today, so thats the first step...
It's good to know I'm joining the MoreSTW fold when the entry criteria has been extended to people's Dads!:). In fairness, if you share the same cycling genes with your Dad @benman he'll offer more than I will.
It’s good to know I’m joining the MoreSTW fold when the entry criteria has been extended to people’s Dads!:). In fairness, if you share the same cycling genes with your Dad @benman he’ll offer more than I will.
His Dad flew past me up the jungle hill on the first series race!
Hope those rides went well.
The wtrl/zwiftpower link is down so the results are all over the place. It'll be fixed...
Great ride from MoreSTW - blanketworthy (as Phil might say 😀) right up until the 2nd KOM when it all went to pot 🤣 Tough one though... the team in front were really strung out which didn’t help and then the team we’d just passed (I think) came steaming through again. Ended up playing leapfrog with them for the rest of the race, unfortunately I didn’t have the legs at the end for a final pop at them. Great workout though!
Another great effort from Team STW - stuck together like glue again!!
Great ride chaps!
The forward KOM with traffic is our nemesis.
That was tough, was close to throwing the towel in with 12kms to go. It was about 20 watts above my FTP for the first 25 mins before it then settled down to just below FTP.
The first 20 odd minutes just seemed to be slow motion for me, trying not to look at the time gone and how much of the course we still had to do!
I just did one of these, although not for team STW. But I was told that if you want to keep pedalling after the barrier drops but before your team start - go to the pairing screen. You can pedal but you won't move.