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I don’t think I was on a mtb
Ah, that's in the pen though right? I mean, I wasn't actually riding that was I? Might explain why I couldn't draft for toffee.
Can I make an appeal after last week, on behalf of my significant other - please please don't disappear down hill.
The hardest part of last week was about a 4 minute effort of chasing my team HARD, who did not appear to be slowing down at all as we crested, and my discord appeal was on deaf ears, due to general comms issues. I was pretty blown after that.
Iff we are still trying to stay together, and you are at or near the front of the group, and we are at the top of a significant lump, and we are not all visibly together..
either a) change your view to front-on, so that you can see the gap to the back AND slow down, or b) just keep an eye on it, AND slow down.
For me the ideal strategy is that as you crest (if there is a gap) the whole team slows markedly and waits for the last guy to go through the or into the middle of the team, that way we are sure no-one is dropped, before increasing speed, otherwise its super painful.
Ideally we want to climb as a group, but if we don't manage that, lets have a strategy for re-grouping that doesn't involve death-by-chasing.
I don't mind the fastest-four-over-the-line-later-in-the-race approach, but whilst we are still riding as a group, lets micro-manage the spee on the crests.
Appeal over.
If you've also been affected by any of the issues in this message, please contact your nearest significant other.
Good point haloric that was partly my fault as I got caught up in the other team ahead of us. At some points I wasn't even pedalling but got caught in their draft! Just the one hill tonight so hopefully easy to manage and no one ahead of us!
@haloric I understand the problem you're trying to avoid, but what you're suggesting isn't the best way to address this.
We absolutely need to power through the crest of any climb and into the first part of the descent for two reasons. Firstly, most teams do what you're suggesting and back off, so it's a great place to make up time. Secondly, the speed you carry into the start of the downhill section gives a group massive free speed for the rest of the descent - which you saw when you and I we're trying to catch them last week! They had nearly stopped pedalling, but were still travelling at speed.
The best answer is to hold the group together on the way up, but if splits do appear then we need to group up before the summit, go over the crest together with one big effort and rest while we're carrying that free speed downhill.
The key to this is to focus on the rider behind you up the climb, not getting fixated on the wheel in front - don't gap the wheel behind you.
I'm saying, lets have a strategy for when this fails:
Ideally we want to climb as a group, but if we don’t manage that, lets have a strategy for re-grouping that doesn’t involve death-by-chasing.
I'm not saying we should slow down unnecessarily, just if there is a gap. If we are together, press on. And concentrating on cresting together is key, yes.
Ditto the start - if you are at the back of the pen, you can be 100m down at the start, and others have left and grouped up, it can be a hard chase to get grouped up. Better to leave the pen at 80% power and group up early. If you are last man and blow through the group, keep going, the group will catch, just don't set off as a group with a man hanging.
So if MoreSTW catch us do we ride a 16 man TTT? 🙂
To echo Phil it's very important to ride for the t rider behind you. T he only thing on screen that matters is the blob of names at the bottom with distances on. You need to keep them as close to 1 as possible and it's the man in front's job to do that, not the person catching*
and rest while we’re carrying that free speed downhill.
You've changed since I last rode with that group ! 🤣
You’ve changed since I last rode with that group!
He's not, just you've a different definition of rest.
He’s not, just you’ve a different definition of rest.
250w is a rest isn't it?!
Now I know how the sacrificial lamb feels.
250w is a rest isn’t it?!
Any pace at which you actually can vomit is a rest. If you can spare the effort to retch you're not working hard.
if you are at the back of the pen, you can be 100m down at the start, and others have left and grouped up, it can be a hard chase to get grouped up
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you time your start well you cross the line exactly on our GO time. So if 100m back start pedalling with 5 secs to go. Just don’t overshoot! For me, on a Wattbike, I have to start pedalling slowly as the initial gear changes take a few seconds to occur.
@paino yep, I start pedalling a couple of seconds before the Go, then when it hits zero you actually start moving with no delay. Nothing to stop you inching further forward towards the actual start line very slowly beforehand too, I suppose 🤔
Does no one else stand up at the start ready to start pedalling and get their wife to do the finger countdown thing the pros do?! Ok then just me! lol
Pros isn't an abbreviation of PROctologistS is it?
FFS! Someone just posted on another thread that Strava and maybe Zwift was running slow so I just tried to log in on my phone from the office... it won't let me (on the app), accuses me of maybe changing my password! (I haven't) This is a similar but slightly different error to a couple of weeks ago when loads of us, including me, couldn't log on in time for the TTT
Can anyone else log in OK?
EDIT: ok panic over, I re-entered my login details and it let me log in fine!!
FFS! Someone just posted on another thread that Strava and maybe Zwift was running slow so I just tried to log in on my phone from the office… it won’t let me (on the app), accuses me of maybe changing my password! (I haven’t) This is a similar but slightly different error to a couple of weeks ago when loads of us, including me, couldn’t log on in time for the TTT
I get this about once a month with zwift.
It takes about 4 attempts (from a password store so not a typo) rejecting the password each time before miraculously it's the right one. I seem to get 404 errors with the change user/login page with metronomic regularity too.
I start pedalling a couple of seconds before the Go
Sounds like you all need to learn to rocket launch :D. Sit in pairing screen, be at 400W ish or whatever is agreed before your start time. Exit pairing screen. Much faster.
Sounds like you all need to learn to rocket launch :D. Sit in pairing screen, be at 400W ish or whatever is agreed before your start time. Exit pairing screen. Much faster.
Is this the one where you drop out of pairing and find yourself at the top of the Insbruck leg snapper ? I don't think we even got punished for that.
I do aim to join a TT one Thursday, it just happens to be my preferred day after Monday for a proper ride out and well spaced around Tuesday and some bigger miles normally on Saturday.
Today’s 50 miler around the trough was just about the right side of comfortable temperature wise, if it gets much colder Ill join you guys instead. In the mean time I might try some solo TT races rather than group races/crits just to get a feel for it.
The Trough is grippy enough to keep me warm in all weathers Kirky! It about as far from a TT route as I can image:)
Are you a local slowpuncheur? It’s cracking riding around those parts.
The TTT is more like the Tuesday night races (minus the sickening start, plus some cooperation) than a solo TT @kirky72. When you do come inside just join straight in.
Is this the one where you drop out of pairing and find yourself at the top of the Insbruck leg snapper ? I don’t think we even got punished for that.
😳
Anyway, FAKE NEWS - I was only half way up the hill !
(waiting in the pairing screen works fine; waiting in the garage marks you out as a moron, as you crawl away from the pen at 50 watts. Somebody's law isn't it - never put down to malice that which can be exlained by incompetence)
Sorry all couldn't breathe, inhaler didn't help. Pretty much fell off the bike.
Felt fine warming up.
hard luck jamesoz - you missed a great scrap "leave 'im Brian, he's not worth it !" 😂
That was fun in a masochistic way. Flat races are awful for me, so hard to contribute. I was riding at just over ftp to stay in our group.
I did my best 25-42 min power in all of 2019 and 2020 apparently, sez strava
Great ride, felt like we were flying 🔥 🔥 Hit a new max HR (187 😳). So glad we didn’t pass any other teams, pretty much on the rivet the whole way round and probably didn’t have any “surges” in me! Think some of us (STW) need to up their mic game tho... could not understand anyone over Discord except for Phil!!
Don't know what happened to my discord, I couldn't hear anyone. It's normally ok. I was just praying I was following the right riders off the line!
Well completed my first TT in moreSTW. Discord stopped working after the hill but managed to stay with the group and contribute. Really enjoyed it. 2 new boy errors. Didn’t update zwift name only zwift power and nearly set off too early. Hope that doesn’t affect results.
Think some of us (STW) need to up their mic game tho… could not understand anyone over Discord except for Phil!!
I think only Phil and I spoke didn't we? (point taken I'll see if I can find something with a better mic)
I averaged 292w for 20 minutes - a new best for me! Couldn't have given anymore. Normalized power of 284w.
You wouldnt have heard me zilog as I didnt say anything. I could hear phil but brian was a bit robotic/garbled. The two idiots near the beginning didnt help either but luckily other than a bit of a distraction they didnt split the group.
Currently sitting 37th out of 250!
Did anyone else bother weighing and recording it this morning? I was up 2.5kg on my Saturday weight but I weighed less than my Saturday weight after the race! Will be putting my zwift weight back down 2.5kg lol.
MoreSTW were 2 seconds faster!
Possibly @dangeourbrain ! Either one or 2 people at the start, saying quite a lot but I couldn’t understand any of it!! Previously you’ve been fine though I thought?
errrr no, were we supposed to?!Did anyone else bother weighing and recording it this morning?
Was gutted, I barely got a sweat on. Might have to give it a rest for a while.
errrr no, were we supposed to?!
Top 3 of each class have to video verify weight and height - dont think 37 teams will get DSQ so unlikely we will need it! Fastest team were 3 minutes faster than us so far!
Really enjoyed that. Knowing the hill was done with gave me the confidence to do some proper turns on the front. Turned into a full on interval session.
Still get surprised just how much you can ease of in the draft if you wind down the power slowly. Ease too much at once and you just drop off the back but do it slowly and you seem to stick.
Great rides from both teams. Some of the bigger squads have really turned it up this evening.
Both our teams somehow did basically the same time. No wonder I struggled to predict which was faster. And judging by the comments here we paced it about right!
I hope you are feeling OK James.
Hope you perk up James.
Well done guys...some impressive wattage being pushed out there! Nice to see both teams pulling similar times.
Yeah, I was glad to see the back of the hill too - though I needed a mile or two of hanging on to recover (amazing how realistically shit my zwift climbing is, though I see that three of our team were "climbers" and as Woodster says had to mash out a lot of w/kg overall to stay with the larger three).
The draft is weird, how you can get stuck behind a rider. I did briefly behind the first one we passed, and I also often found it quite hard to pass our lead rider smoothly - seems like you have to smash round and then back off and I'm not good at the technique.
Not quite sure if I enjoyed that or not. ZP said I averaged 4w/kg, which I can believe given my legs feel like lead now. Not quite sure what happened to Martin, 10 seconds down at the start so guessing he missed Phil’s count down. Some of those solo guys clearly don’t get the nature of the event-considering we’re already at least 30 secs up on them they continue to ride in the draft!
munkeymadness, you only have to change yr zwiftpower tag so you're fine, by the way
(not looking forward to "racing" some of you lighter gents in Robbo's round6)
Not quite sure if I enjoyed that or not. ZP said I averaged 4w/kg,
You and Phil were doing a damn good job pulling on the front. You both judged it well and never noticeably gaped third or fourth wheel
The draft is really difficult to judge. My plan was to do 400 metres on the front at 10% above ftp, then sit in the pack for 2km at 10% below ftp. (My FTP is 263 and 69kgs)
I would go to front at 290 watts, then get over taken after about 15 seconds. Then if I eased too much I’d be being told to Close The Gap. To get to the front and stay there I’d have to smash and maintain over 300 watts, which wouldn’t be sustainable for me.
Not quite sure how to improve my climbing, but enjoyed that nonetheless. I felt I could have gone a little harder on the flats after the hill if needed, but not much.
Talked to Martin afterwards, he finished about 3k down on us. He heard the countdown ok, but he is on a watt bike, and was also at the back of the pen, and it may be that that is causing the delay. His previous starts have been similarly slow. He was putting in a lot of watts to catch us, but it was not happening.
Have talked him through how to shoot the gate, so hopefully starts will improve. I could hear Phil but most of the rest was garbled.
Roll on the day when Zwift puts some dev love into the TTT.
I enjoyed that too in a strange kind of way. Had to dig quite deep on the hill and out of the desert (missed out on the cake) and legs are a bit achy now. Big thanks to Savoyad for organising and those working hard on the front and for not dropping me. I feel I should be having a recovery shake or something similar but am currently tucking into a bowl of pasta and have opened tomorrow’s bottle of red wine.
How did you do?
Team I was in are currently nicely placed in Frappe, though I blew up after screwing my position up and letting a gap open.
We are sitting 37th in latte and 203rd in frappe overnight.
Your team sitting in 2nd place is mighty impressive. Congrats. I doubt you'll go down much, if at all, from there?
Nice, good job.
The first place fcancer team will be dq'ed again so everyone moves up one (they are 10mims 'faster' than the lead espresso!). Yes draft did great, they were epic after I blew.
Team I ride for (WKG Torture) did well tonight. Currently placed 24th overall in Espresso with a time of 38:55. We lost a rider within 10 mins due to internet drop outs so happy with our time. We’ve been racing the TTT for a good 8-9 months now so we’re quite a well drilled team. We try to do a big effort for 30secs on the front then drop to the back of the line to recover whilst everyone else moves up one. Using discord has made a massive difference, if someone needs to miss a turn to recover more they shout up. Better doing this than blowing up to early and getting spat out of the back. A bigger group equals bigger rests for everyone and consequently a faster time.
Nice time. Drilling is key, so much time to be made at points a lot of teams are in recovery mode.
Well done @nixie. Looks like you won a gold medal! Have you got stream of your race?
37/250 in Latte isn't a bad result - something to aim for next year!
Back to Harrogate next Thursday!
Hell yes, so great. 😃
I've a stream from my pov till I blew and there is a stream from the lead rider till the end. I'll post them up in a bit.
Do you get a rainbow Jersey too wear on Tuesday?
Do you get a rainbow Jersey too wear on Tuesday?
I am afraid we don't recognise WTRL or UCI events.
Do you get a rainbow Jersey too wear on Tuesday?
That would be cool but I don't think so.
I am afraid we don’t recognise WTRL or UCI events.
harsh man, harsh 😀
@woodster maybe aim for +-20%, seemed to work for me, ftp 290. I was aiming for about 350 on the front but then I'm definitely no climber so that course suited me.
https://zwiftinsider.com/speed-tests-ttt/ looks at how much you can save in the draft. And how much quicker taking turns really pushing on the front then recovering is.
Also just having more people in the pack makes it easier to drop into and recover so even if everyone doesn't hit the front it still makes it easier for those that do.
@robbo1234biking feeds here;
Mine:
(start at 25 minutes, currently being trimmed)
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/816672114 (whole event)
The streams of @nixie's race are sobering (although let's bear in mind it's a world championship winning ride we're watching...).
- there is constant talking. the discord overlay on nixie's screen is like continual fireworks.
- the level of organisation (calling the next two to pull repeatedly, allocating people based on their characteristics, like urging one rider to go before he runs out of time to recover before the hill...)
- the length and power of the pulls - look at @nixie's effort round the bottom of the volcano.
It's a totally different approach. This is why I like latte - we can be competitive without the kind of commitment shown here. The step up to competing in frappe is more than just extra power. It's a whole mentality change.
Back on planet earth, I thought our teams did great last night. We rode fast - team PB's for the course - and as tight units. We only lost riders to early issues rather than burning them off. A pretty successful evening!
Brian bickering in the chat was entertaining too. Made me excessively suspicious of that particular rider, and I ended up urging us past him to a probably-paranoid degree when our turn to overtake him arrived.
Tom's organisation is absolutely top draw, this win has been planned to the nth degree for the last 10 weeks cycling riders in and out of squads to find the best combination. A load of our Bs made A along the way! He is also the DS for our super fast premier league team that has won that event several times. We have a plan prior to the event and stick to it. You can see the effort in the pulls, at the point I was dropped I'd just done a decent effort and the next one through was pulling at 6Wpkg! One split second of lower power and there was a gap I couldn't recover after a pull as the gap opened super quick (in a normal event that was totally retrievable). With hindsight that volcano pull was perhaps to hard for too long!
Also important to note that BRT get rests on the downhills lol there was eve some supertucks!
Quitters
I think you were too busy virtually shouting at that guy to have any rest Brian!
I have these
Avanca D1 Sports
I got them from Sports Pursuit for about £25 I think
Discord overlay is in the settings @robbo1234biking (app settings -> overlay; you might need to add zwift in app settings -> game activity too). But whatever I choose, I can only get it to appear in that top left portion on top of the power etc for zwift. I'm guessing @nixie has the same problem?
"This is a team event....and you don't have one." haha.
“This is a team event….and you don’t have one.” haha.
I think its very much exacerbated in the TTT by having latte in A, the problem being you've got people entering that really are A and absolutely don't grasp why you're getting cross they're not easing up when they're holding your group at a C pace, if they reorganised the pens so espresso were in A, Frappe B, latte C they'd likely never get in the way.
Thanks @robbo1234biking
Also important to note that BRT get rests on the downhills lol there was eve some supertucks!
Some rest on the downhills, some don't. It's not meant as a rest period, there is time to be made.
I've only ever had the overlay in the top left, anywhere else would annoy me I think. It doesn't bother me that it is over the power as my phone is also reporting that.
OK had a play over lunchtime with Discord and overlays and you can put it where you want it.
First image shows it under the status bar.
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/j5FwnFZP/Discord-1.pn g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/j5FwnFZP/Discord-1.pn g"/> [/img][/url]
Second image shows the overaly option menu (use your overlay short cut key to bring this up). If you look on the title bar next on STW Voice there are 8 little dots. Click and drag on here and you can move it where you want. The trouble being that the screen is already pretty crowded!
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/QCKBQJyP/Discord-2.pn g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/QCKBQJyP/Discord-2.pn g"/> [/img][/url]
Screenshot from last nights race - it could go under the power output but would disappear when the route PR tab comes up and I think you can only have that on always or sometimes.
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/BnbvHgPC/2020-11-26-2019391.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/BnbvHgPC/2020-11-26-2019391.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Not sure what zwift thought @trolo1234 was doing in that last screenshot. Going for a swim?
I didn't know you could drag the overlay. I choose a screen quarter in the settings but it ignores my choice. Bottom left is where I'll put it. All you get there is stuff you don't need in a ride - the menu button, the end ride button - and the "stop watching @scaredypants and return to your own race" button when something goes weird (and I didn't even see that for 30 secs when it was there)
There were a couple of wierd time gaps to MoreSTW last night when I was keeping an eye on you. Glad you didn’t catch us actually. Prob would have ruined both times.
For the Xmas eve ttt is there an earlier time slot (like mid afternoon) have the day off so could ride then but evening isn’t going to be an option. No offence but a excited 6 year old, Arthur Christmas and pizza takes precedence!
the “stop watching @scaredypants and return to your own race” button
Look out for a new 24/7 scaredycam feature coming in the new year. Just working out the image rights now
There were a couple of wierd time gaps to MoreSTW last night
Do you mean fluctuating or just that we seemed to start slowly? We started slowly
The gaps between your team members were fluctuating between 30 and 50 seconds so I wasn’t sure how far behind you were. I assumed you hadn’t split by that much.
Some interesting info about the times for the event from the WTRL Facebook
The official race time starts at banner drop - that is the same for all races and is held and maintained by Zwift servers.
Your onscreen clock starts somewhere else (the same place your fit files for strava etc start) - usually quite a way outside the pen area. This is why we never use your Strava data as it is a bit like a racer claiming their wrist watch time is correct over the official race timer. That is the same for all races and your onscreen clock is locally generated - it is not connected to Zwift in any way. this is another reason for using a stop watch from banner drop rather than a wall clock as unless your wall clock is perfectly in sync with the Zwift server time, you'll likely be leaving very late or early.
There is a limit to the number of people leaving the pen early before a WTRL flag system is engaged (this is what the flashing red warning triangles are on the results page).
To get your official TTT time, essentially you can take the official Zwift Race time (look in the race results of the companion app) and subtract your start delay. If the team triggers the flag system (WTRL proprietary system - not Zwift), the team gains a time correction and a penalty. Once that is applied, the red flashing triangle turns off.
The gaps between your team members were fluctuating between 30 and 50 seconds so I wasn’t sure how far behind you were. I assumed you hadn’t split by that much.
I also saw this and thought MoreSTW had split, quite disconcerting to see it come and go. It didn't help that I was not sure what your relative start delay was, so thought you had taken a minute out of us.
That’s strange how you were seeing time splits, apart from the first 500 metres we were blobbed together. Even on climbs I don’t think we had more than a second between us. We very quickly lost 20 seconds to you guys but then made 10 seconds back on the first climb. We were at 40 seconds gap for a while.
The timings are weird, when I look at Zwift Power we got a gold medal a few weeks ago, this appears to be time corrected (deducting our wait time). However the last race hasn’t been time corrected so it just looks to be in order of when people left the pens.