Zwift Team Time Trial, Thursday

Yeah i'll come play matey. Form is OK at the moment, not amazing, but not terrible.

"see" you tomorrow folks.

Is there space for me? C cat rider.

I'm tempted to join tomorrow, although if it is really hot I'd have to bail as I don't have a cooling fan

@robbo1234biking said

Is there space for me?

Absolutely. I can see you on the start sheet already. I'll post full practical info tomorrow. The race itself is self-explanatory. But getting to - and leaving - the start line is a faff that needs explaining. Watch this space!

@twisty said

I’m tempted to join tomorrow

Excellent. If you do sign up, come back for the info I just promised robbo sometime tomorrow...

Here's the info for this evening. Event start is at 18:33. Our start delay is +10 minutes, so we're actually off at 18:43.

The start list looks like this at the moment:
dangeourbrain B
savoyad B
weeksy C
zilog6128 C
robbo1234biking C

Theres's still space if anyone else wants to join in. Category D here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/991230

Some details (robbo1234biking, in extra detail for you today!)
- dress up as a bumblebee. make sure you are on a road bike, not a TT bike (the whole point is the draft...)
- join the event ("enter the start pen") before the event start time, so before 18:33
- when the start says "GO", DO NOT GO! At this point, you must stop pedalling (so you don't roll forward) until our team's actual start time, which today is 10 minutes later, so 18:43. If you must pedal (e.g. to keep your power meter awake) go into the pairing screen. All the way in. Even apparently paused in the menu you'll roll forward if you pedal.
- at our actual start time, someone will shout go. At that point, go. It's self explanatory after that. Ride with the group.
- the "hardest" part is often passing or being passed by another team, as the sticky drafts get tangled and you get dropped. be aware
- for comms, we'll use discord (for chat beforehand, shouting "go", cajoling me back on when I fall behind, declaring tech issues etc). Join the stw server here: https://discord.gg/UxHekd We use the STW Voice channel in there. Push Tt Talk is best, otherwise all everyone hears is panting. If it fails/cuts out etc, it's still possible to do the whole thing without - at the start, just go at exactly 18:43/when you see us rolling off. It'll be quite thinned out by 10 minutes so easy to see today.

I think that's it.

See you in the pen.

wow, late one....

Legs will be OK here for the flat, expect me to struggle on the hill as always.. I know you say it's flat, but it's called a KOM, so must have some uphill on it 😛

Wow this is a bit more involved than I thought it would be. So I've signed up for zwiftpower and registered for the race.
What kind of setup do people use for discord? I use rollers which limits my ability to be pressing buttons while riding.
I usually Zwift just with my phone but I might be able to get a laptop set up.

I just use a Bluetooth headset without* push to talk and hope I'm not sounding line a crank caller. I have dropped the sensitivity mind so need to remember to speak up a bit!

*I'm hated for this no doubt but I can't easily reach my keyboard to hit a button for discord

Legs will be OK here for the flat, expect me to struggle on the hill as always

– the “hardest” part is often passing or being passed by another team, as the sticky drafts get tangled and you get dropped. be aware

Likewise if anyone is struggling, make it known and the rest can slow down/regroup. (Unless right near the finish maybe and they don't mind being dropped). We need 4 over the line so that only allows one drop-out our mechanical!

I don't discord, i listen using it but any comms outgoing i do via keyboard.

OK should all be sorted. have joined the Discord channel. Which voice server do people use?

What bike? I have tron so can use that or a more aero package?

I don’t discord, i listen using it but any comms outgoing i do via keyboard.

I always use the Tron bike for everything. Make sure yours is a different colour to mine lol (yellow) (it helps if we can identify the other riders easily, since we're all wearing the same tops!)

Anyone else not getting Discord working ?

Discord is working for us

Bemused then. Couldn't get it working then was on phone to a mate and managed to be pedalling at start time. All in all, a disaster sorry lads

No trouble weeksy. Discord stopped broadcasting me with about 2 mins of the count to go 😐

Good effort though folks. That would be a good commute route I think though it seems to roll slowly. I guess to simulate the "pave"

Yeah good ride all. Really struggled in the last 5km cos of the heat I think, but couldn’t bail as Twisty had dropped out 🤬 🤣🤣

Thanks for the ride guys, sorry I had some issues towards the end.

Here is my shonky setup

Cheers all. Enjoyed that (kind of!). The last bit of that course is like a V02 max workout with a quick spike uphill followed by backing the power of on the downhill. Thought we stayed as a group pretty well seeing as there were a couple of newbies!

Here is my shonky setup

Outdoors?! Burn the heretic!

Thought we stayed as a group pretty well seeing as there were a couple of newbies!

It went remarkably well in all, the lack of a real hill meant there were very few instances where I zipped off the front and it certainly seemed to be holding together nicely and everyone kept on the gas to the end too. Not sure why but after the first k or so I found it much easier for judging when to put the power back on to catch the group than usual too,much less yo-yo than normal.

I think there's been a bit of practicing going on whilst I've been away 😉

As I understand it we came in 51st out of 125 in the Latte section.

Not a bad result, good consistent splits too.

That was a good ride. The hill wasn't really a hill. But on the other hand the "flat" bit was, as robbo1234biking says, sometimes hard work especially towards the end. We stayed together well. Thanks robbo1234biking and twisty for joining us, you slotted right in nicely.

We were indeed 51/125 in latte, and 254/433 overall.

The entry is in for next week, Thursday 6.30 as usual. It's 42km of Out and Back Again (which we have ridden before).

Enter category D here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1003086

I'll post that info again after the weekend.

Cool, I am in. That was actually the 1st time I'd ridden any of the French routes so didn't know what to expect but yeah, that KOM was nothing!

Quick plug for this week's TTT: Thursday, 6.30pm, Out and Back Again.

All welcome to join us. The start list isn't up yet, but I can see 5 of us already on the companion app. So there are three places still available.

Sign up in category D here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1003086

I cant make this week I am afraid as we are getting a few days away. Will hopefully rejoin you next week.

No start times yet, but a quick bump for tomorrow's zwift TTT.

Tomorrow, 6.30pm, Out and Back Again.

Sign up to category D here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1003086

I'll be back later with our confirmed start time.

Our start delay this evening is 12 minutes. So join the event by 18:33 and the sweatfest will begin at 18:45.

Don't let anyone borrow your fan today @dangeourbrain.

Today's line-up as it stands is:
dangeourbrain
phil56
savoyad
twisty
zilog6128

Still room for reinforcements. Cat D here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1003086

See you in the pen!

Don’t let anyone borrow your fan today

I might even borrow a spare from the office today

I'm at Brands Hatch today and won't be back in time.

Cheers for this evening folks. Pleased I had my fan back!

Any chance of an invite for discord as I left the server in the process of trying to figure out how to close the app

Great ride all. Ta for dragging me round. Flatter one next week please 😂

Discord link:
https://discord.gg/QDh6XP

I’ve had a tough week and wasn’t sure I’d finish that, but boy that felt tough even at a slightly lower effort due to my tiredness and someone else’s cramp in a 4 man 2nd team.

Made it though, and pleasingly our 2 club teams take up 7 of the top 10 places - 2nd to 8th - in B cat.

Ta for the invite.

I don't think I've ever ridden half of that route before, it's an odd one!

Ah, it's seems I've been bumped to cat A so I think I may have scuppered us.

Looks like 81st of 101 in Frappe, would have been 21st in latte. Sorry.

Congrats on the upgrade though!

Well done Brian!

Ta, but it doesn't feel like it needs a well done, it feels like it should be a commiseration!

Nah, it's we'll done Brian!
Enjoyed the ride last night, good fun that.
And don't say sorry about the Frappe thing Brian - we agreed long ago it's about joining in and having a bit of a crack if possible, try our best but not get that concerned about results

For me the TTT has nothing to do with overall results, it's about being with a bunch of STWers and putting in 100%. Anything else is a bonus, i've never actually looked at the results post-race, but i do see them in the thread, however they barely exist in my mind.

Another good ride. Brian I thought you had realised but were just being modestly discreet about the upgrade to A. Congrats though. It doesn't matter what category we ride in.

I don’t think I’ve ever ridden half of that route before, it’s an odd one!

Indeed. It doesn't even go out and back. And its weird profile makes it rubbish rather than interesting for races. It is quite a "good" TTT course though - it's hard to stay together on the reverse KOM after 30km and the volcano.

I didn't even realise there was a tunnel to the volcano!

Oh, and the apology is a bit tongue in cheek, it was more that I was surprised to see we'd not done a bit better in the results as we normally do well on hilly courses. There was a brief moment of head scratch followed by a penny dropping.

The TTT is very much about the craic so no real concern on that front, the down side is I'm now supposed to do real races in A, and those guys are sodding quick.

Yeah good luck with that Brian, I can't even keep up in C races!! 🙂

Well done (or commiserations) on the A cat, so if you raise your weight by 0.5kg it doesn't bump you back down again?

Thanks for the ride again, sorry I was a bit all over the place towards the end, it was partly my setup/losing a contact lens and partly me being a spanner.

I found out about supertucking a few days ago and tried it for the first time in that TTT and after I worked out that trying to trackstand on rollers is not a good idea it seemed to work really well, faster than pedalling and an opportunity to get in some liquids, was anybody else coasting on the faster downhill bits?

Entries are open for this week's TTT. Thursday, 6.30pm.

Enter category D here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1015345

It's back to France for 1x 24km lap of Douce France this week (which is the reverse of RGV, the course we rode the week before last).

I can't do the next 2 or 3 weeks sorry. I'm away to Scotland with my bike for a week on Friday (so packing the car trying to remember brake pads etc on Thursday this week and away next) then Mrs brain and I are both on holiday the following week so might not be about for that either.

On the up side:
A) Phil is back
B) you tend to do better without me
C) you don't have to listen to my dulcet tones on discord.

@dangeourbrain - I was confused on Discord as I expected you to be a gruff Yorkshire man!

I am in for Thursday - have entered. That course should be easier that way as long as we don't get broken up on the first section!

I was confused on Discord as I expected you to be a gruff Yorkshire man!

Careful now...

nice one sav, I am in!

I managed to track down and fix the short-circuit in a slightly more adequate laptop so with any luck I'll actually be able to see what I'm doing on Thursday.

There is definitely a glitch on the french course where it slows down at a village and the KOM aqueduct and the wierd very twisty bit.

Ridden it both directions and it has lagged in that location both ways and not dependent on how many riders are on screen. Plus it is a brand new laptop and flies on all the other bits and courses at 1080p.

Bump. Four of us on the start sheet at the moment for tomorrow 6.30pm.

1x 24km lap of Douce France. Weeksy says it's hilly. Robbo says it's glitchy. But it's pretty short for a TTT and I think (let's see) the difficult bit as a team is near the start when we'll still be fresh this way round.

Join us here, category D: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1015345

I'll post our start delay this evening / tomorrow morning...

We have a start delay for this evening: 7 mins. So in the pen by 18:33 and we actually start at 18:40 exactly.

At the moment it's
savoyad
twisty
zilog6128
robbo1234biking

To add your name to the list, sign up to category D here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1015345

Enjoy folks! I shall be trying to setup my wet weather tyres tubeless prior to going away with the bike tomorrow. Nothing like a bit of prep time

I'm riding Afan tomorrow so i won't be playing tonight fellas.

Is the time based on 3 crossing the line or 4 if you start with 4? Not that I am planning on dropping out or anything!

3rd man over robbo.

3rd of 3 or 4
and
4th of more.

Simple. But I can never remember this information in the last 5km.

But I can never remember this information in the last 5km.

If you can think you're not pedaling hard enough.

Might be able to join but as my usual Thursday night commitments are maybe not on. If so can I confirm later?

Only issue I had when I did it before was because I wasn't pedalling during the waiting period before I started my power meter went to sleep and I had to play catch up off the line.

Any way round this?

You can sit at the sensor connection menu while pedalling, then stop pedalling and go back to the game just before the start.

No worries tpbiker. There's no need to give advance notice. If you join the event and you'll automatically be part of the team (your zp profile is still tagged STW). If we see you in the pen or on discord we'll know you're with us. If not, not.
As twisty says, you can safely pedal to wake up the power meter in the pairing menu (press A, or go through menu --> pair). The settings menu itself doesn't help - in fact it's worse because you move but can't see that it's happening - you have to go all the way into pairing.

I'm in..see you at start line

That felt much harder than last time I did it despite power showing as similar and it being shorter!

Last 2km were a bit of a shitshow but other than that a good effort by all.

Cheers for that guys. Got split at the end when that group went past. I was talking to say we had split but forgot to push the talk button! Doh! Tried to get back on but think had put too much out through the first section with the lumps and bumps.

Still was a good run out. 10w of the reverse course two weeks ago but haven’t done any structured training and had a break from training as I have been hitting it hard since lockdown began. I reckon that is a realistic view of my fitness at the moment but hopefully will come back soon!

Thanks for the ride, seemed like a strong group this week.

I did go through that group to join you robbo, but then fell back again when I realised there was no 3rd man with me.

So what's the protocol if another team passes and then sits up in the last 5km again, blast back past them?

I managed to be almost glitch free today on this restored laptop, just a couple of times at the beginning of the course when my power went to zero for a few seconds and I had to put a bit of effort in catching back up again.

Tim I think needs to adjust zwiftpower name to have space between name and the '(STW)'

I think it was you and tpbiker that caught the other group. I was hanging of the back trying to hang on to savoyad’s wheel! It did really throw our cohesion. The group in front of them didn’t really break away from us either.

Thought we held together as a group pretty well though. Did anyone else have the glitchy problem through that village about 10k in? It starts stuttering!

I thought it was pretty glitch free. Last time I struggled as the power seemed to be delayed so I kept yo yo'ing out front and back but this time was easier to stick in group.

The last group that passed us ruined the last 2 km for us. They went past then pretty much just stopped. I reckon in future just fire on past them because they were not playing in spirit of race.

I also find it really hard to know if the folks behind you are in your draft. I wish you could switch between only 2 views, normal and looking behind you, as cycling through the various views is a pain in the ass

What was our time in the end do you know?

36:36. We came 54 in Latte out of 131. The times were all pretty close though so wouldn’t have taken much improvement to bump up the leader board. Our 6, 12 and 19km time was pretty consistent though which is good we didn’t really drop off towards the end.

That is a really satisfying result, especially as we were a team of just 4.

I got home in a hurry and started without a fan, towel or discord working properly. Luckily I was rescued about 10mins in when my wife got home. But apparently I didn't ask very nicely...

I've said this before - other teams are the hardest part of this. We did get scrappy towards the end, but it didn't matter timewise because we were stuck behind those others anyway. It was a big effort to regroup just before we caught them (tpbiker you cruise along at 15% over my FTP...) so I'm not sure that we'd have been able to surge again and get all 4 of us past them after that even if we had tried. Frustrating though. Before that, it was really a great compact team effort.

What device do you use tpbiker? On a computer you can choose your view with the number keys. I think you are asking for view 5: https://zwiftinsider.com/keyboard-shortcuts/ I think phil might vary his view a bit to keep us together/encourage us along/shout when a gap opens, either that or he can read the side panel like the matrix.

I'm putting us in pen A (which is less busy) next week to see if that helps. I think we might (appropriately) have to get our mountain bikes out next week. It's three laps of the jungle circuit. I'll post the link separately.

What I was doing yesterday was looking at the rider listing on the right hand side when I was 1st wheel, if it was showing more than +1 second to 2nd wheel then I was backing off a bit - was that working?

It seems that in Zwift it is optimal to form a paceline like in a real world TTT but judging the power to actually do this is easier said than done and not sure how much I should be trying to keep to a line and rotate in order? Sometimes I was moving to 2nd wheel to try and cover gaps or doing more of a constant effort churning with periods of falling to the back for a drink/recovery if I was getting tired.

To risk overanalyzing things at the end, when that team passed us going up that small hill, I was last wheel. All of us did detach from that group although 1 rider ended up a few bike lengths ahead so I moved into 2nd wheel to try and cover that gap.
The group that had just passed us then obviously slowed down so I unmuted and called that, as it looked like staying behind them was going to cost us about 15s/km, somebody said pass them so I upped effort a bit to pass them, then somebody else said they were hanging back - which I thought meant they were cooked and we were going to 3 men so I continued, but then just as I was passing the group I realised there was nobody else with me so I fell back to link back up with the 3rd and 4th wheel riders behind by which time we were within the last 500m with 1st wheel about 20m ahead so I did some smooth acceleration to try and bridge us back to 1st wheel.

Either way, it's good the four of us finished close together considering zwiftpower only picked up 3 of us as STW team.

I wouldn’t worry too much. I think everyone is aware that they want to take a turn so everyone pushes to the front which I think pushes the pace on. The way Zwift draft works I think if you are all together, that is good enough to get the benefit.

It was just being clearer on the comms but I was pretty cooked so cognitive effort meant I forgot to push the button to talk so you couldn’t hear what I was saying and savoyad was having comms issues anyway. Assuming that everyone’s comms is working then have a road captain who makes decisions (probably not me - that was only my 2nd attempt!).

Still good fun which was the main aim. Volcano circuit suits me a bit better as the climb is steady and easier to pace rather than the v02 max workout through th me first section! Looking forward to the next one.

zwiftpower only picked up 3 of us as STW team.

Is it me who's not registered correctly?

I use a pc but my keyboard is nowhere close so I need to use the app to change view

tpbiker you cruise along at 15% over my FTP

I wish that was me cruising! What kind of watts per kilo did folks put out yesterday for that effort? I ended up at about 3.9 watts per kilo, which is a slightly below ftp, however I'm far better with a consistent effort, where as yesterday I was having to put in some efforts closer to 5w/kg at times which ruined me a bit.

The second half felt much easier than the first tbh. May be I wasn't warmed up enough but up until about the 6th km I was fearing I'd blow up before half way.

I was 3w/kg but I am a big lump so had the second highest NP out of us despite the lowest power to weight ratio!

Tpbiker- 264w NP 3.9 W/kg
Twister - 297w NP 3.4 W/kg
Savoyad - 251w NP 3.4 W/kg
Me - 270w NP 2.9 W/kg

I think the STW team on zwiftpower doesn’t affect the TTT results. You can join the team here although I have no idea who runs the team on zwiftpower! https://www.zwiftpower.com/team.php?id=756

That first section is hard up and down. I think it was better on the second half when we could settle into a rhythm.

Interesting that my np and average power were both 3.9!! Felt much less even paced than that.

I think looking at that power output tells you why I get ruined in flat races unless I enter the c cat. Robbo's watts per kilo is 25% less but he went just as fast as me yesterday.

The Zwiftpower power curve data seems to be unreliable, it's completely different to my Strava powercurve data for the same ride.

Yup TPbiker you didn't have the STW team flag against your name in the results, I guess because not joined the STW team.

I personally think the W/kg metric is over-used as it doesn't relate directly to performance level unless going up a steep hill (perhaps my bias as a larger person), even for a TT it's mostly dictated by power and CdA rather than W/kg, and when working as a team it doesn't capture the contribution of punching a big hole in the air for team-mates or punchy efforts closing down gaps or pulling at front.

Entry details for this week's TTT...

It's 3x laps of the jungle circuit, 29 lumpy kilometers, 6.30 on Thursday.

Enter CATEGORY A here - https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1028995 - yes category A this week, I'm hunting for a quieter start pen (for a shorter start delay, and less traffic on the course).

I think we need all need to change onto MTBs this week judging by this https://zwiftinsider.com/gravel-bike-results/ which says that's worth over 1 minute per lap compared to a road bike (we're starting in the jungle start pens).