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Nice one @molgrips 👌🏻
It’s funny, I’m not less busy than when I used to train 7hrs a week on TR but riding lots of endurance has made me crave riding my bike more 🤷🏻♂️
Doing lots of centuries last year makes 2hrs seem short too.
I had 2hrs endurance on the plan tonight but I wasn’t recovered enough from yesterday.
Did 1h at 201w on a Zwift C group ride and pulled the plug.
That’s the dilemma I find myself struggling with self coaching- at what point does a “Breakthrough” ride become too hard? I guess if you can’t recover in 48hrs before it’s time for the next ‘breakthrough’ ride 🤔
I’ve now bumped tomorrow up to 2.5hrs low endurance with 10 form sprints in the first hour but I’m going to monitor how I feel and pull the plug again if I’m still fatigued. I wanted to hit 14h this week if possible but will cut myself some slack as it’s all looking like being indoors 😴
I want to make sure I “absorb” Tuesday’s effort too- otherwise it was a waste of energy.
A question, which I'm sure has been answered at some point over the last 12 pages, but, is it favourable to train to Z2 heartrate or Z2 power? I find that if I'm Z2 power, then I'm mostly Z1 HR.
Having done no official testing to work out my max HR or whatever, I'm sure these are comparatively arbitrary factors, but just wondered.
Z1 HR, 3 zone model…roughly no higher than 70-75% of max HR
Z2 power will help you pace it, but you may need to pace down a tad if your HR is elevated (due to various reasons]
Early season, pace by Z2 HR and measure power. Later, once you’ve hit your target longest ride without power dropping off at this HR, target a power number for your same target longest ride and keep doing it until your HR doesn’t go up.
(Google aerobic decoupling https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/aerobic-endurance-and-decoupling/)
Or, if trying to follow dr ISM’s method, push right up against “the talk test” which will likely be high z2 or low z3 power 😀
To elaborate on that a little, here's a really good example from Georgio Copolla's Strava.
He's riding what looks like ERG mode 195w for 210 minutes but if you look, his HR goes up considerably in the second half of the ride even though the power hasn't changed.
By contrast, if he had followed his HR, then the power would have had to drop off to compensate.
So you do more work by riding Z2 to power but it is also a more stressful ride.
And here's one of my drISM "talk test" rides. HR starts low Z2 and hits high Z2 after 2hrs. Power was (probably, I don't really bother testing FTP at the minute) low tempo start to finish.
Had I carried on longer, no doubt my HR would have gone up exponentially.
Because I wanted to ride these using ERG mode, I made a couple of educated guesses as to where my "talk test" wattage would be. The first go at 220 was too easy but this was spot on.
(I think the Strava Sauce pw:hr number is your decoupling score. So Georgio was working 5% harder by the end of his 3.5hrs for the same watts which is actually vey good given the hours he's been training lately and not far off of Friel's under 5% guideline. )
Cheers Crosshair. Clears things up a bit. I tend to ride to power, as I do any kind of focussed work inside on the trainer, and found that generally my HR was lower than I'd expected. Still, like your examples, the other day I did 2 hrs and found that by the end my HR was increasing. Decoupling seems to be vaguely around 5%, but it's rare I ride with both power and HR (turbo) for more than 2 hours.
If you are still in base, you can kind of use it to reverse-engineer your training sessions too. So if 2hrs is your session time limit, and you're at 4% decoupling, then you can up the watts over a couple of goes until you find the point at which it's up to say 6 or 7% again. That way you can avoid stagnating. Then hold the new power for a couple of weeks until decoupling gets under 5% at the new higher power.
my hr decoupling varies, on 2hr zone 2 rides, a quick look back from as little as 0.5% over 2hrs, to 6%+ on 1 hour rides, (assume the 1hr is skewed by stabilisation of HR?)
random selection from the last 2 weeks here, and the last one is clear decoupling, which is the first ride of "block 2" after reducing intensity and duration by about 50% (to 3/4 hours) for a week
(Intervals also has this as an option in the fields drop down box on the ride analysis charts)
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should I take that as a sign I should nudge the Z2 a bit higher, my Z2 is apparently 141-192w and these were all done at 180 or 185w, so "upper"
I guess it depends how you are structuring your week. I like to have clear 'Easy endurance' days that are often high Z1 average outdoors but when I'm actually pushing on the pedals are low to mid Z2.
Then I like to have one crisp breakthrough ride each week. Because time is limited to 3hrs max, they're the ones I've had to progress up through into Tempo and now Sweetspot to make sure the progressive overload is there.
Looking at those 2x two hour rides in the middle, they're obviously still great training so I guess it depends what else you are doing in the week. If you want to be fresh for some HIIT then maybe leave them the same or if you want to try and nudge your LT1 up then maybe add 10w and see what happens??
I'm not really structuring it, just doing a lot of Z2 with either a Zwift race or effort after a z2 session once a week,
I'm very much "on the fly" 1000 things could come up a day, just switching between 1/2hrs on what time I have available, take this week, I have 2 days at uni, 2 meetings at the kids schools, a coffee morning, 1 kid off school because of strikes and 2 night shifts, thats without fitting in "life" around everything else, I've tried to plan in advance, it always ends in failure and non concordance with sessions, 2/3 hours is certainly my max duration for turbo, lighter nights/better weather will allow me to stretch that
Wee bump, I had possibly one of the best indoor sessions I've had this lunchtime, 1hr20minute Z2 on the rollers.
I think I'm getting over some of my discomfort issues on the bikes (off-bike physio) and pumped the tyres up a wee bit harder which on the rollers makes it easier for a given speed but also smoother.
Then I plugged in my favourite mix off YouTube (below) which gets crazy upbeat and euphoric at around about the 45 minute mark, and zoned out to some helmet cam footage of the Tour of Flanders that someone recorded.
I don't know if it was the intensity, the tunes, the nose breathing or the (sort of, to a cobble fetishist) inspiring footage, but I was struggling not to launch into a full gas effort in the latter half of the workout, the old endorphins seemed to be kicking in and I just felt amazing! Would be curious if that sort of feel-good rush is just luck, the music choice or something to do with the nice smooth easy intensity.
Anyway, will repeat the experiment next chance I get with my SAD lamp beside the laptop as well, I'll be off my tits on endorphins! 🤣
I ride the classics on my rollers in Z2/3 depending on gearing of the fixed wheel. Then I take a mental break when the adverts come and ease down the power. When the pros go hard, it’s time to push a little harder. Three hours on the rollers is OK. I now have some powered Elite rollers too. The effect is subtle and the onboard power meter is hopelessly optimistic. It will, however pass through my Assioma power to Zwift instead.
Rollers are just great. And you will pedal like a god.
I now have some powered Elite rollers too. The effect is subtle and the onboard power meter is hopelessly optimistic.
I am very tempted by crank based power, I've been relying on consistent tyre pressure etc. in an attempt to make some sense out of my virtual speed (although the Elite power curve is extremely flattering, apparently I have an FTP of 370W 😂) but deep down I know it is just guesswork.
Three hours on the rollers is OK
Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!!
Rollers are nothing like a turbo. You move a lot and get out of the saddle. And of course spend time trying not to fall off. Just need to take your mind off the boredom and a classics race does that. <br />The elite rollers read about 30W too high based on my Assioma, they do, however estimate cadence accurately.
Z2 thread is back!
I can do 1 hour Z2 like it's nothing if I have something to watch, footy live doesn't work as I focus on what minute is on and it feels so long, nor does switching between YouTube vids, Breaking Bad got me through so many hour sessions earlier this year, 1 episode and its nearly done, but I know longer sessions are needed more, 2 hours is fine as well if I can get through minutes 45-75 without being distracted as it's only then, breaking bad failed somewhat here as you switch between 3 episodes, and my brain goes we have 2 episodes to go, same with cycling if I can see how many km is left and what the parcour is, but ticking off Zwift routes for XP helped weirdly, as it was a goal of somewhat to tick them off,
Timely thread bump!
I’m procrastinating wildly over getting going again.
But did last year work? Unequivocally yes.
It all culminated at the Tour of Cambridgeshire fondo 100.
I ended up doing 248w average and 284np for 4h30.
But because I got dropped out of the lead group on the first rise, I actually hit one of my main goals for 2023 which was to do 300w np for 2 hours with 309w np 🤣
Regrettably, what I discovered is that at those kind of speeds, even that’s not enough watts to
overcome aerodynamics and hills at 15 stone so I basically lost all interest in cycling.
There’s a load of lads in our local circle who refer to themselves as ‘Fast as F’ and it just peed me off that they were getting their rocks off over ‘fast’ rides that were like 205w average and 230w np for a couple of hours. I mean, purleeeeease! Those are Z2 numbers 😉
I realised genetically I’m not the right frame to be a cyclist.
Training 10-12 hours a week made me really hungry so I didn’t even lose any weight. Or even tone up very much to be honest. I just got very good at pushing pedals down.
So I bought a Chinese mini ADV motorbike and spent the summer riding with an engine instead 🤣
I also got back into fishing which has lead me down the road of wanting to learn spear fishing and so am swimming a couple of times a week in the local pool.
So now, I’m pretty sure there’s no residual fitness left from my stonking form in June and I want to finally, after 2.5 years of trying, lose the weight that’s holding me back on the bike.
With that in mind, I think Zwift will be reactivated this week and I’ll try and fill in days between swimming with Z2. Seems there’s even a few new routes to tick off. I may throw in a weekly Zwift race just to help with lactate clearance as that should help my underwater swimming.
Goal is loosely Dirty Reiver ‘24 so with one month blocks, I’ve got room for Base/Base/Base/Build/Build and a short peak.
Data wise I have no idea where I am at so will see what the first few rides bring.
Better see if the new puppy has eaten all the turbo wires 🤣🤣
i better get a ride in with you now while you're at your worst 😀
You boys are machines. I've just restarted Zwift. Did an hour last night, mostly Z2 and averaged about 130w. It was a random Watopia ride and the few sprints I did that lasted 30-40 seconds, I couldn't manage anything more than 450w for that time. Going to be a long hard winter if I'm to get fitter and stronger.
With regards to decoupling, presumably I couldn't measure that as I don't have a power meter? Or is there some mathematical alchemy that coughs up a useful number?
I've been trying to do a couple of hours a week (time poor, generally) at zone 2, though strayed slightly over (Ave HR was 117, my max z2 116). 30 miles in 2hrs 7mins. Would it be worth stopping the ride at the end of hour one, then recording hour two, to get some comparison, or am I overthinkng it?
zoned out to some helmet cam footage of the Tour of Flanders
I cannot watch other people riding when I'm on the rollers, because when they go around corners...
@chives Yeah, decoupling needs two numbers (the work you are doing V the cost to the body) so is tricky without a power meter. You could use speed but probably only a velodrome would give accurate enough conditions. <br />And it depends if you’re wanting easy or progressive Z2 🤣<br />For the former, just stick at that HR and ignore everything else. <br />For the latter, you want to actually ride at the ‘talk test’ intensity and just record your HR to see how stable it is. Once you can do talk test for 2 hours without your HR increasing towards the end you then need to find other ways to stress your body (add time, frequency or intensity to your week).
I cannot watch other people riding when I’m on the rollers, because when they go around corners…
<br />🤣
I almost panic grabbed the brakes yesterday as they came up behind some stopped traffic at speed
I once jumped to head the ball while running in a gym & watching a footy match on screen 😅
Do any of the training apps/programs that control trainer resistance according to heart rate limits? I see that zwift doesn't saying that heart rate doesn't respond quick enough to power changes, although IMO that really doesn't count for zone 2, that should only Impact interval workouts. Plus I find zwift quite irritating for training, I find the disconnect between the trainer resistance and the virtual terrain a bit off putting. I think they need some much longer flat and rolling loops.
I use Zwift and a Wattbike - the link between resistance/power via gear shifting/terrain and HR is instantaneous on this setup.
I find zwift quite irritating for training, I find the disconnect between the trainer resistance and the virtual terrain a bit off putting.
Ah. Do you mean when you're in ERG mode and the climbs/descents don't align with increases and decreases in resistance? Zwift were supposed to be introducing terrain-based workouts but they've not appeared yet.
There's plenty of flat routes in zwift..
I hear what you're saying. I get annoyed (well, not really, but...) When the workout ramps up but I'm going downhill!!
DrP
Would reducing the trainer difficulty help?
think I'm back, bit on an enforced lay off, with whatever this was
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/diagnose-my-leg-issue-ianad/#post-13024814
3 weeks since my last ride, finished about as fast and fit as I've ever been, but it's got dark, cold and wet quickly, will ease in, tick off some of the new strava route badges
I did quite a lot of Z2 stuff last spring… with a weekly Zwift race at Z5 it worked well for me. I maintained the Z2 focus into spring, but without the weekly Zwift race as the weather was nice. By summer if felt I had no top end. Re-introduced Zwift, albeit with a lot more threshold work and have since got back to where I was in the Spring. Now 3 weeks into Build Me Up, as I wanted a bit of forced structure. Will probably go back to something more polarised once I’ve worked through that to maintain fitness
I'm still very torn/confused about my shorter mid-week Z2 sessions.
Loooooong story short, with my midweek routine and the rehab stuff I'm trying to do in the gym, it's really difficult to do more than two sessions on the rollers, and usually no more than 90 minutes.
I'm sure ISM suggested 90 minutes was the bare minimum required to really achieve any benefits, so I'm wondering if I should just switch to sweetspot workouts mid-week and try a bit harder to keep my weekend rides Z2 (winter gravel rides tend to become CX rides very easily!).
Hence, I think, the focus on the 'time crunched cyclist' and all the excitement about sweetspot in previous years, seems to have evolved from 'what can I usefully do with 45 minutes before dinner' etc. etc. 🙄
I was told that Z3 is about the same benefits as Z3 but you can do it in less time.
Hey folks, thought this might be interesting - my goals are much earlier this year than the last few, with an ultra race in April, so decided to do primarily dedicated zone 2 blocks since November.
Total of 18-20hrs per week, with either 3 or 4 "on" weeks in the block depending on timing (i.e I wanted xmas as a rest week, and need to push current block to 4 weeks, so I can get a rest week before a trip to Lanzarote!). Mid-week usually consisted of Mon-Thur 3hrs per day (most of the time split into 2x90mins), with a big ride on Saturdays (either outside, or 8-10hrs on turbo in z2).
Here's a graph showing the increase in power for any given Z2 HR(or conversely, lower HR for same power) comparing the last 3 months with ALL of the preceding year. It's around 20-40w increase across zone 2, depending on higher/lower bounds (at around 81-83kg).
(sorry, snipped the Y axis : it's % of max hr)
8-10hrs on turbo in z2
😳👏
I've recently been doing some Zwift sessions in one gear with trainer difficulty off, forcing me to stay in zones 1/2, regardless of route profile.
Only way I can do it is on a Zwift group ride at a pace that matches what Z2 is for me. Otherwise the boredom far outweighs the joy despite the benefit, and I would rather try and approximate a Z2 run or climb a hill or something
I’ve been trying to do this in a spin bike at the gym. Bruised ribs keeping me off the mtb.
Anyway I can’t seem to stay in zone 2, I run into zone 3 someway around 25mins. The remainder of the hour is spent with my heart rate tracking up and down between the two.
I’ve been trying to do this in a spin bike at the gym. Bruised ribs keeping me off the mtb.
Anyway I can’t seem to stay in zone 2, I run into zone 3 someway around 25mins. The remainder of the hour is spent with my heart rate tracking up and down between the two.
Could your heart rate be slightly too high to begin with?
I get so much conflicting information about what Zone 2 actually is. I eventually found out about drift tests and have been using it to try to fine tune what heart rate I should actually be aiming for during my zone 2 work.
https://runningversity.com/heart-rate-drift-test/
Can’t remember where I read it or if/how accurate it is, but believe it’s something like 0.75 x Max HR
Stay below that, if you’re drifting over back off a touch so your HR levels and your power drifts downwards
I bought an ebike to commute the 40 mile round trip to work 4 days a week instead of the 2 I was doing on a bike. I wasn’t expecting much fitness improvement, it was more to avoid driving. Being on an ebike meant I was in z2 a lot, unless I was belting along on the flat. Anyway, I’d arrive at work a lot less sweaty and not battered. I looked like I’d lost a fair bit of weight, and my Sunday ride fitness was loads better, so a nice ebike road might work- you go at a decent pace, get outside and stay in Z2.
Only way I can do it is on a Zwift group ride at a pace that matches what Z2 is for me. Otherwise the boredom far outweighs the joy despite the benefit, and I would rather try and approximate a Z2 run or climb a hill or something
I've only just caved in and started Zwifting in the last couple of weeks, I can see the appeal but it's quite easy to get sucked into the habit of flogging yourself unnecessarily, I've not tried group rides yet, but I have tried a couple of ramping workout sessions just to see how I am able o hold a given target power. Because it seemingly estimates default zones based on power not %HR I reckon my Zones are all currently a bit high, last night it suggested I need to do a ramp test to recalibrate my zones.
Having said that after I'd done a 25 min ramping workout that topped out at Z6 I just sat and span round wattopia for an hour at about what my normal Z2-Z3 HR level is IRL, mostly ignoring the wattage, and it was OK, it's just hard to resist jumping on as a big groups come by or chasing people down, but I just don't have the legs for it currently and that isn't why I've taken Zwift up.
I still think I'd struggle to do the 12hrs a week on a trainer regime described a page back, but I suppose if the goal is to cram in massive Z2 volume irrespective of weather and around a normal life, that's just what you have to do right(?).
I’ve been trying to do this in a spin bike at the gym. Bruised ribs keeping me off the mtb.
Anyway I can’t seem to stay in zone 2, I run into zone 3 someway around 25mins. The remainder of the hour is spent with my heart rate tracking up and down between the two.
Is this just you solo on a spin bike, or a led session? IME the Gym bunnies that lead spinning classes tend to be trying to get attendees to dip in and out of Z4/Z5. But do you want to be just holding Z2? If you're trying to maintain strength/stamina for a return to real life MTBing perhaps a bit of ramped up efforts with recovery inbetween is appropriate?
the paced rides on zwift are great for this sort of thing. pick the right bot for the power output you want and there is enough movement in the group to keep some interest.
jam-boFull Member
the paced rides on zwift are great for this sort of thing. pick the right bot for the power output you want and there is enough movement in the group to keep some interest.
+1. I do these a few times a week, on my Wattbike. I do have a few custom 60 min Z2 workouts, but find them really boring, just spinning along in ERG mode and keeping the Zwift Companion App needle in the blue Z2 Power zone.
My Wattbike setup has Zwift on Ipad, Companion on phone and Spotify on Air pods. I find that a paced ride of 60 mins passes pretty quickly, with other riders, hills, gears etc, compared to the monotony of an ERG workout of the same duration.
Can’t remember where I read it or if/how accurate it is, but believe it’s something like 0.75 x Max HR
I should have worked this out earlier, using that calculation, Zone 2 for my age is around 123bpm. Now for the most part I try to keep my heart rate at around 110 to 115bpm, which is what my garmin + chest strap is telling me. The last session my heart peaked at 136bpm twice during the session but the average is given as 118bpm. Either the calculation is incorrect or I have my thresholds set incorrectly.
I think if I have go slower, I'll lose the will to live. I tend to listen to pod casts as a distraction, no amount podcast will distract me from a slower pace.
I'll be back out riding my bike soon, but would like to keep this up for the odd session in the week when I'm short on time. I intend to have a spin bike in the garage and def off the gym (at least in the summer months) subscription.
I generally use ERG to help pace the Z2 stuff, set at varying intensities between 56-75% FTP.
Have to watch the HR dosn't drift above target (I use the three zone polarised model) and knock the intensity down if it strays (fatigue etc).
There's also a calculation that takes into account your resting heart rate as well as your max heart rate. When I used that one I suspect it was slightly on the high side based on doing a drift test.
https://theathleteblog.com/heart-rate-zone-calculator/
I think if I have go slower, I’ll lose the will to live.
can you not just change gear ? My HR Z2 is 120, with an upper limit of about 135 and lower about 110. I can do an hour on Zwift workout at a cadence of about 90rpm and120bpm in either ERG or using Wattbike gears on a pacer ride - late 50's and not very fit.
Worth a watch:
RE: Zone 2 in Zwift. I tend to do three things:
- For 90mins Z2 sessions, I try to find a high-end group C ride(2.8-3.2wkg), either 90mins or 60(plus 30 extra at end), then ride in the bunch. Favorites are the 12.05 DIRT 90min rides.
- For 3hr Z2 sessions, either try to find a B-group 100KM ride (and top it up), or join Yumi (2.9wkg) for the time. There's a decent 100km 3R steady state ride (B or C) at 1745 on Wednesdays.
- For 8-10hr Z2 sessions, I tend to start with a morning 100-160KM C ride (2.5-4.5hrs), then when that's finished join Yumi for the remainder. For those I usually have 2 or 3 coffee stops for toilet, and then 15mins proper stop for lunch and a coffee. Decent rides are all around 7am on a Saturday (Evo being the best bunch out of those ones).
Key things for me are: don't do completely flat routes, even something like waistband is better than the tempus fugit. You need to the small rises and changes in gradient to help you move around the bike and adjust cadence etc. I also hardly do ERG for the same reason, as definitely prefer the small changes in power and cadence to keep feeling comfortable on the bike.
i think your Z2 would be my Z-dyingmyarse
You do 8-10 hours on a turbo? 😱😱😱😱😱😱
So glad people are all different, I get bored after an hour and can only last that long if I do a race which certainly won't be zone two.
I’ll add that I don’t join the spin classes, it’s just me later in the evenings.
If I calculate Z2 using my resting heart rate, then it suggests that the high end of z2 is around 132
I had a pop at doing one of the condensed ramp tests last night, my FTP came out lower than I'd have liked, but I wasn't surprised. I just couldn't hang on above 200W and shifting position/dropping gears to try and up cadence simply messes with ERG mode and then I kind of lost my rhythm, finished the test, but it wasn't exactly a stunner. I think I'll do another one in a couple of weeks, maybe when I'm better rested/prepared.
I've not been able to do the miles I'd have liked during the last few months and I'd already noticed a general drop off in strength during the summer. Having picked up Zwift a bit late, I'm just trying to make sense of how to use it constructively. it feels like I can get in in 60-90 mins 4 or 5 evenings a week, but I don't think I want to spend all of that time just bulking out my Z2 time.
I think a lot of the issues I currently have come down to the fact that Zwift doesn't really seem to pay much attention to HR, it looks at Watts and W/kg so the 'Zones' I'm used to, based on HR don't really align, and I'm not used to training to power.
Hopefully now it's got a recalibrated idea of my FTP Zwift will adjust things accordingly(?)
So I think I'll try a couple of the paced rides, at a 'Z2' power level (Circa 2W/kg for me I think), and I might start trying the 'FTP builder' and/or 'Climbing power' focused Workouts.
Or does it all HAVE to be Z2 to build/maintain endurance?
Will I be doing myself more harm than good mixing things up like this?
I suspect any biking will be good, but it may not be the focussed good you are looking for.
I'm new to Zwift and can't quite get my head round it - laptop is out of reach so I'm ignorant whilst riding as people give me thumbs up and I can't do anything back.
I'm finishing work soon and going to see how long I can ride round on Zwift at zone 2 and a bit of 3...trying to build a bit more endurance of time in saddle and miles clocked...
You do 8-10 hours on a turbo?
I've done the Uber Pretzel in Zwift which was 7 hours and 6 minutes for 88 miles and 7,841ft of climbing. It wasn't a pleasant experience
laptop is out of reach so I’m ignorant whilst riding as people give me thumbs up and I can’t do anything back.
Download Zwift companion app to your phone. Lets you do a lot of stuff in ride easier than reaching for the laptop or tablet
going to see how long I can ride round on Zwift at zone 2 and a bit of 3…trying to build a bit more endurance of time in saddle and miles clocked…
if you join an appropriate pacer ride that should be relatively enjoyable and the time should pass quickly.
laptop is out of reach so I’m ignorant whilst riding as people give me thumbs up and I can’t do anything back.
I've bought a cheapy wireless mini-keyboard and I'm fashioning something to pop it just out front on the bars, signal in the garage is a bit dire for the mobile, I don't really like the partner app TBH and it generally seems easier to use shortcut keys than podge and swipe at a touchscreen (IMO)...
Zone 2 for my age is around 123bpm.
Asbrooks,your Z2 is not based on your age, but on your physiology. If you're basing your HRmax on (220 - your age) you'll likely be calculating your zones wrong. Better to get a "real you" estimate of HRmax and work your zones from there. And then use a website like crickles to give you data based estimates of your zone boundaries, which will change w fitness levels, your LTHR can improve as you get fitter
there are different formulae to calculate zones, based on HRmax or HRR(Karvonen) or %LTHR.
But Zwift is basing it's zones on Power anyway isn't it, so you need to be thinking about your FTP more than HR. I'm still trying to get my head around that, as on short rides it feels easy cf HR zones, but on longer rides it starts to feel harder cf HR zones
For zone 2 on Zwift I just use one of their erg based workouts and run it off my iPhone whilst watching something on Disney channel on my main screen via Apple TV. Although I’m finding the Zwift set workouts aren’t as varied as the TrainerRoad ones I used to use. I need to have a play around and see if I can build my own.
If I manage to work it out I was going to take my ftp and put in different intervals between 55-75-% of ftp. Maybe a gradual ramp up and ramp back down. For an hour or an hour and a half depending on life / time for exercise.
I don’t have the free time to spend 2 hours+ exercising really…..so I’m never going to get in hours and hours of zone 2. My fitness out on my real bikes feels pretty good at the moment - although I’m mostly either doing zone 2 or hammering at threshold on a race with Zwift. When I used TrainerRoad I used to do a lot of sweet spot training so maybe I ought to fit some more of that back in really.
I just do the pacer group thing. If you fall asleep and drop off the back, just teleport back in rather than doing any actual work is my hot tip. Mostly I choose not to do zone 2 indoors - I choose, fresh air, I choose roads, I choose trails, I choose life... 😉
I'm sure there's a market out there for some sort of fast-acting general Mogadon-like drug that will allow you to pedal for hours around Watopia without any awareness that you're actually there, Zwiftadon?
I get the general principle mind, I snuck out for a 'steady ride with a mate yesterday that turned into a two-hour, 1100-metre, half-wheeling climb fest, which was very definitely not zone 2 🙁
While I'm here, can I ask how many more intense - VO2 Max type sessions - people are doing a week? My last remaining hangover from long covid is a bit of a top-end deficit compared to before times. I don't know how much was down to missing 18 months of riding or whether I have some sort of physiological issue. I'm very definitely not recovering as well as I used to, but then again I am older than I was.
@joebristol Loads of those kind of workouts on TrainerDay (lots are lifted from TrainerRoad), if you have TrainingPeaks premium you can send them into your calendar and pick them up in Zwift if your accounts are linked...really easy.
Or create one in TP calendar then copy it to another date, edit etc.
Doesn't need to be complex, just interesting enough to hold your attention - you can try adding some cadence or standing drills or something every few minutes, just watch your HR doesn't drift somewhere where it's not supposed to be.
Download Zwift companion app to your phone. Lets you do a lot of stuff in ride easier than reaching for the laptop or tablet
Got that and it seems to just freeze...also then requires me to take a hand off my bars - even though I'm parked on a turbo I've terrible balance and when I do manage to look at the phone, my legs stop turning...I'm a bit thick with this turbo malarky!
requires me to take a hand off my bars
I use a cheap handle bar mount for my phone. Can keep one hand on the bars
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Grefay-Universal-Motorcycle-Handlebar-Smartphone-Black/dp/B08RD62QRX
That looks ok but does introduce something else for me to think about...I'm already fighting the boredom of indoor stuff...hahahaha.
I'm seeing benefits to doing this but I'm struggling to stick to the training plan sessions...I'm fine if the effort is <5 mins but there are several sessions with efforts of 10 or 15 minutes and I struggle to not switch off...
I think I need to spend more time in the saddle, so need to mix that up with turbo and outdoor.
Zwift has helped increase the time before utter boredom kicks in, but I need to find training sessions with a lot of variety so the changes keep me engaged - which I suspect isn't going to help improve things for me properly (however my vo2max has increased 6 points in last 4 weeks according to Garmin so that is good to see, but it is still a long way off where I'd like it to be!).
This is all still pretty new to me so I suspect things will improve with more time spent on it.
But Zwift is basing it’s zones on Power anyway isn’t it, so you need to be thinking about your FTP more than HR. I’m still trying to get my head around that, as on short rides it feels easy cf HR zones, but on longer rides it starts to feel harder cf HR zones
While I’m here, can I ask how many more intense – VO2 Max type sessions – people are doing a week? My last remaining hangover from long covid is a bit of a top-end deficit compared to before times. I don’t know how much was down to missing 18 months of riding or whether I have some sort of physiological issue. I’m very definitely not recovering as well as I used to, but then again I am older than I was.
Yeah I'm in a similar position, getting weaker and older and wanting to regain some power and recovery capacity for summer but struggling to Piece together a useful 'training plan' with Zwift. There are shed loads of workouts available but I'm not totally sure which ones suit my goals/needs and how to block out a plan using them through the next couple of months, and then I went and watched this:
Plus I'm not really keen to go down a Rabbit hole, I just want to click on a cookie cutter plan that fits my available time that just helps raise my FTP and endurance a wee bit. But I can't help thinking there's lots of "Junk workouts" in the Zwift library and I'm not really equipped to differentiate 'Junk' from a 'Goodun'.
Got that and it seems to just freeze…also then requires me to take a hand off my bars – even though I’m parked on a turbo I’ve terrible balance and when I do manage to look at the phone, my legs stop turning…I’m a bit thick with this turbo malarky!
Yeah I found the Companion app buggy (more down to WiFi connection in the Garage I think), here's my solution:
Popped it on last night and tried it briefly. It seems to work nicely, but you do have to remember all the Keyboard shortcuts, and to chuck a towel over it when I'm heaving on a big interval.
I don't bother with the workouts or training plans.
either bot rides at the Z2/3 pace I feel like, or races. quite liking the short lap crit races at the moment.
I spotted this from Andy Coggan (who has *some* knowledge of how training zones work) on the TR forum talking about Z2:
https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/lactate-and-lipolysis-zone-2-mania/88066/5?u=stevious
It's quite long but he does summarise:
TL, DR: It’s all good! In particular, training at a VERY wide range of intensities leads to an increase in mitochondrial respiratory capacity. There is absolutely nothing special about so-called “zone 2” in this regard, except perhaps the fact that you can do more of it, resulting in a greater overall “dose” of training (i.e., combination of volume and intensity).* Anybody touting the “magical” nature of zone 2 and mitochondria simply doesn’t know what they’re talking about (this includes folks like ISM and Attia).
I personally fnd this really reassuring when I'm sweating over whether I'm in the right zone or not.
I just want to click on a cookie cutter plan that fits my available time that just helps raise my FTP and endurance a wee bit.
Yes, i'm doing the GranFondo 8 week plan, and seeing how that goes, but not sure how well it adapts. Will watch that video later and see what that has to say. May just have to go and do reps on the Beacon to see how my fitness is improving....
My BiL used a Zwift plan synched from a TraiiingPeaks coahed plan - and that seemed to work for him, but he is a bit more committed than me. This year he is using Zwift in conjuntion with the JOIN ai coaching app. He says that is usfeul as it is adaptive to your sufferscore and if you miss a workout. It's yet another £10 a month so not sure if i can be bovvered.
Got a q so I thought I'd revive the great Z2 thread..
I'm limited to low intensity exercise for a while on Drs advice, maybe until December. I've already had 6 weeks off the bike so there's a drop in fitness from that plus from the issues I had (pulmonary embolisms, not rated or recommended..). I generally do ride a lot of Z2-ish pace, trad Z2 or talk-test Joe Friel / Inigo San Milan Z2. As far as I can tell my aerobic threshold trad Z2 upper limit is around 75-78% of (trained) LTHR, the point where I need to start breathing a bit more than just walking briskly along a flat road. If I'm at talk-test Z2 I might be 10-15bpm higher. To avoid strain on lungs at the mo I'm staying at trad Z2 and also time limited.
Q is - if HI riding is out for a while, aside from treating this as a Z2 base miles period and accepting the top-end fitness drop before getting on the turbo in winter once I have the all clear, is there anything I should be considering?
Weights were one thing I thought of but the HR raise and strain is probably not a good idea. I can ride up less steep hills in a big gear at really low cadence and stay in trad Z2 so that's probably all I can do for strength work, for now.
Do you do any flexibility exercises? My experience is that a bit of yoga each day does me just as much good in terms of functional strength as weightlifting but it’s easier to fit into my routine.
I do, basic stretches and a a couple of yoga type exercises almost every morning, only takes a few mins but it's been helping a lot in terms of how relaxed I feel on the bike. But still it's a good point that with less riding time, making more time for that would be beneficial.