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I'm liking the DMR swap outs for single speed and the uber short chainstays.
[i]and the uber short chainstays. [/i]
Genuine question..Is this a 29" thing? 😕 Wassit for?
Been waiting to hear some owner reports on these.
Frame weight would be good and some sensible feedback rather than gushing gush gush.
Cheers
2.4 kg according to a chap on this thread.
[quote=nickc]Genuine question..Is this a 29" thing? Wassit for?
Chainstays generally need to be longer to accommodate the clearance required for the larger wheel size - this makes the bike longer and less nimble (although possibly more stable).
To counteract this, some frames are designed to have shorter chainstays (e.g. by bending the seat-tube).
that is gopping in every respect
the chainring is too small, the cassette/mech just plain ugly, everything routes under the BB and that front rotor is pathetic.
nobody can say that rear wheel isnt just too big, it wont turn jammed against the seat post.
who says you cant judge a bike by its picture.
I agree its not exactly a looker but the rear wheel isn't jammed against the seat post 🙂
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I have one, I'm very happy with it. Didn't weigh the frame before I built it up. 29er means great grip and momentum, but it's very playful and nippy. From my own personal perspective, I feel like I'm sat 'in it' rather than perched 'on it', which is very confidence inspiring.
Why is the downtube bent near the BB?
Makes the bike look a fed snake, bloated and in need of a nap under a tree for a couple of days. What benefit could be worth that?
wallop - interesting to hear. So the designers have hit this holy grail that many are trying to achieve (Canfield, etc.) of nippy like a 26 but with the benefits of the 29?
How short is too short for the stays though...
If I hadn't got a Zealous I would have gone for a Canfield.
It'd be nice if people reserved judgement until they'd ridden one. I had a prototype for a couple of rides and everyone in our MTB group had a little go and said how much fun it was to ride it - isn't that what it's all about? Putting a smile on your face.
Andy from Zealous here.
Thanks for the comments, and nice to see the Division is causing some discussion. We know not everyone will like it - but who ever made a bike that was universally liked?
We've got some demo bikes, and have just received new stock - so if you do want to test one, feel free to get in touch via FB or the website, or ask your LBS to get in touch with us.
Cheers!
I don't think you can go "too short" - provided you aren't bothered about a front mech, aren't super tall, and that other things like head angle, top tube length etc have been all been considered in the overall design (it works as a package, not just a number in isolation).
For 3 years I've been running 405-415mm actual (not horizontal measurement) stays on a 29er (so sometimes just dipping under the mythical 16"). I'm always amused by polarised comments from people that have never ridden a 29er with this setup. Also amused by bike builders whoose adverts claim 17" stays are short 🙂
Also amused by bike builders whoose adverts claim 17" stays are short
Indeed! Maybe a couple of years ago, but not now with wobbly seat tube shapes and split tubes like the Zealous.
What are you riding then, mick_r, to get stays that short?
nice!
17" is short if you want to give your customers freedom of choice as to number of chainrings and type of front derailleur.
17" is short if you want to give your customers freedom of choice as to number of chainrings and type of front derailleur.
17" is short if you still want the bike to possess many of the inherent benefits of the larger wheels, such as stability, speed and grip.
People obsess over chainstay length, like they do with head angles. It's just a number that's part of an overall mix when it comes to frame design. I've ridden a fair quantity of 29ers, and all those that have inspired me have had relatively Modest head angles, and chainstay lengths around the 440mm mark. Over 450mm long does start to feel like you're piloting a DH bike, but then again 430 or under feels too close to a 26" bike to instill as much confidence or speed as I'd want.
Andy, I was being way over the top for no good reason, sorry!
It's because I don't understand! I keep seeing the bendy downtube thing, I always thought it was originally there for shock clearance on full sussers, then it seemed to appear on bikes where the shock was nowhere near the DT.
I would have thought straight lines would be better from a design position - weight, strength, cost (and consequently, form through function aesthetics) - wherever possible unless there was a reason why not: shock clearance, heel clearance, tyre clearance, compliance characteristics. But I don't get the reason for a bendy tube at the bottom if there's no shock to clear.
Is it something to do with the angle of the forces through the welds?
As you may have gathered, I don't know much about bike design, but I would really like to know what this is about! Cheers!
mboy - memberPeople obsess over chainstay length, like they do with head angles. It's just a number that's part of an overall mix when it comes to frame design.
So you're not one of those people?
all those that have inspired me have had relatively Modest head angles, and chainstay lengths around the 440mm mark
Over 450mm long does start to feel like you're piloting a DH bike
430 or under feels too close to a 26" bike to instill as much confidence or speed as I'd want.
Or are you? 😀
Is it something to do with the angle of the forces through the welds?
No, its just looks.
How does a bike instil speed?
Canfield owner here - short chain stays make a fun, nimble, poppy ride. I've found no downside & I've not found lack of stability to be an issue, I think the gyro effect of the big wheels does that.
17" is short if you want to give your customers freedom of choice as to number of chainrings and type of front derailleur.
or do without.
Andy from Zealous - here again.
@cynic-al & nedrapier: Yep, the downtube is that shape because we liked the way it looked, not going to be to everyone's taste for sure. Bend at the top is there to clear the top of your fork.
Nedrapier - no offence taken from your comment at all - really liked the way you put it - made me smile!
The 'package' of measurements, angles, etc is so true - one good point is no good, if there's a bunch of bad points to eclipse it. Stability comes mainly from the wheelbase (assuming you have a decent head angle, etc) - bigger wheels do have an effect, but that's more about momentum and roll over. It's a balancing act building in features you want to shine, and then adjusting other parts of the design that become compromised because of that. We're happy the bike delivers what we wanted it to - a good all round trail bike leaning towards the more aggressive and technical.
Yep, the downtube is that shape because we liked the way it looked, not going to be to everyone's taste for sure.
Good-oh, I can continue to enjoy being annoyed with a clear consciounce, then!
Glad you built the bike you wanted, and it works. Good luck!
"we recommend that the wheels used have no greater than a 23mm internal rim width" rules it out for me. Just love wide rims and big tyres on my hardtails these days
I've been riding one of the prototypes that was loaned to me (my frame has just arrived in the country) and I love it. I was a big wheel skeptic as most of the 29ers I'd ridden felt like I was perched on the bike rather than rather than fitting comfortably with it. The short chainstays make for a lively ride akin to my old 26" hardtail but the the big wheels give me huge amounts of grip and far superior rolling ability over rough stuff. It really is the best of both worlds. I've hammered it in the Sierra Nevada, raced it at Bikefest, sessioned the downhill trails of the Mendips and Forest of Dean and I'm so happy at my decision to buy one. It handles everything I've thrown at it and inspires confidence to hit lines harder and faster. Hell, I've even started to get more comfortable jumping, something I'm frickin' awful at. Sounds like a sales spiel I know but I'm just happy to have found the bike I wanted.
Setup for those interested:
Division Frame
X-Fusion Slide forks 120mm
Superstar Sentinel wheels, 15mm front, 142x12mm rear
Continental Trail King rear tyre, Schwalbe Hans Dampf Front (this won't fit on the rear)
XT / SLX 1x10 drivetrain
Hope Mini Mono brakes
Reverb seatpost.
martinh - you make it sound as though 23mm internal is a skinny XC rim, but 23mm is pretty wide really. Fair enough if you like uber wide rims though.
I have one it's ace.
...but I guess your looking for more than that. I was a 29er spectic too but the short chainstays on the division looked like they'd make the difference and they do.
I notice it's 29er-ness positively in the rolling speed but not negatively in the twisty-turns bits. On my local quarry laps it gets round all the tight bits my 26" am bike does, and that's some of the steepest twisty rockiest lines you'll find in the uk. It's been great on long mountain days and even fun on the jump/pump track after a trail centre day.
My first lap of the Marin on it I had pb's on nearly ever segment, ups and downs , which was a surprise. It's definitely not a race bike, but is a fast and fun bike,
I did a Snowdon double on it the other night after work (up Llanberis, down rhydd du, up ranger, down Llanberis). It handles the climbs well and the super techy Rhydd Du descent well too although I was wishing I had full sus down the Llanberis path cobbles but no hardtail is going to be much fun down there since they've "improved" the path
Negative point would be I find it a pain to lift onto the car/over gates as you can't grab the seat tube, on the plus side you can bleed a stealth post with it still in the frame!
and mine weighs in at 28lbs with an average strong not light build. Revelations, flowEX on hope, SLX/zee drivetrain and brakes, 11-42 cassette, reverb, Turbine bars.
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The look of the frame won't be to everyones taste for sure, but if thats gopping to you then I guess we are just different.
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Built 2 of them, the yellow one is mine, love it!
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Liking the yellow. Brightens up a day. 8)