Don't think I've seen this discussed, just saw on reddit that YT customers with outstanding orders are receiving emails advising that the company has entered insolvency and that orders have all been put on hold (and funds already paid dropped into the insolvency estate). Comes right on top of a big sale that must have sucked up a bunch of as-yet-undelivered orders too. Not good news...
If you've got an order outstanding with them, credit card chargeback time I think?
Pinkbike have a story describing it as a "reorganisation" under self-administration and stating that it's business as normal but that seems to contradict what YT are telling customers.
"Hello Young Talent,
We regret to inform you that, due to ongoing insolvency proceedings, your order xxx has been put on hold. As your payment was received before the proceedings officially began, it is legally considered part of the insolvency estate.
At this stage, we are unable to issue refunds or provide further details about the status of your payment. We understand how frustrating and disappointing this situation is, especially without a clear resolution.
If you wish to explore your options, we recommend reaching out to your payment provider to inquire about potential next steps.
We truly regret that we cannot offer you a better solution at the moment, and we’re very sorry for the inconvenience this has caused.
Thank you again for your patience and understanding.
Sincerely, Your YT Industries Team"
They've had some big sales recently. Almost bought a bike myself. Scary stuff.
Ahh, that's sad. I've got one of the first Jeffsys, it's been a brilliant bike - scary to think it's nearly 10 years old now. Been considering getting a newer one as the geo has been updated quite a bit (although it's nearly 2kg heavier), but have to think of something else now.
Without being cynical....that feels quite cynical!
Have a bloody big sale knowing you are on the verge, and not making every effort to get customer's orders out the doors before the doors were shut. Use the cash that's just flooded in to pay staff maybe? Or to pay off a few creditors you want to have a relationship with after your 'reorganisation'....
Wow
Just shows how tough it is out there.
Potentially buying a new bike and the Jeffsy was high up the list, I was disappointed to miss all the recent good deals but looks like I may have been fortunate. I wonder if we will see them saved.
@Convert - I expect they tried to do all those things, but were unable to do it in time.I’m glad I got mine at the beginning of the sale.
Sad for both the people at YT and the customers out of pocket. Hopefully most paid by credit card and can get their money back
I’m not really sure what self administration means in Germany, but sounds like they aim to continue trading into the future somehow?
It also sounds (but could well be wrong) that you'd have an element of control of the timing and could ensure you didn't leave customers relying on credit card companies for their money back by pausing new orders and pushing everything already sold out the door before pulling the trigger....if you'd wanted to.....
I am in two minds as a big fan of the products. BUT if they did have a sale knowing what was happening, and *if* innocent punters lose their money as not protected by CC then I hope the shareholders lose their shirt but that the staff find a new job...with someone more ethical.
Turns out that YT Industries GmbH is registered with Companies House in the UK as an Overseas Entity but their Annual Statement is overdue since February.
YT INDUSTRIES GMBH overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK
That sort of thing should be a red flag to anyone thinking of trading with a company but it's the sort of thing that few of us think of checking.
I wonder if this affects the downhill race team, Vali etc?
I always wondered about the choice of "YT Mob".
The sale was probably a desperate measure to get cashflow to keep them solvent. Now they’re in this legal mess I imagine their hands are tied but I’d be very surprised if they don’t fulfil these outstanding orders unless they can’t save the company.
I know they originally traded on price but their bikes consistently review very well and I think they’ve got a strong brand (notwithstanding some things I’ve heard about the owner which are particularly worrying for a German company…)
Yeah the sale <could> be extremely shitty tbf, there are some very crappy but legal things you can do when just on teh verge of insolvency, like paying off specific creditors before you're stuck in the formal process so they get funds they wouldn't do otherwise, or restructuring debt etc like Orange/Bairstow did to load all the debt in one place so it can be ditched. etc etc. Lots of exploits basically.
But equally if they were just on the edge rather than absolutely in the toilet, maybe a succesful sale could have kept them afloat. Guess we'll find out in like 3 years.
there are some very crappy but legal things you can do when just on teh verge of insolvency, like paying off specific creditors before you're stuck in the formal process so they get funds they wouldn't do otherwise
I cannot speak for the German regime but in the UK you cannot lawfully prefer some creditors over others to put them in a better position than they otherwise would have been unless there is some objectively justifiable reason (like you need to keep the lights on or keep access to data or keep insurance in place).
It's called a preference and it's covered by Section 239 of the Insolvency Act and the look back period is up to 2 years with connected parties. It is also challengeable as a breach of duty by the directors and potential grounds for disqualification. This is a specific area that liquidators and administrators investigate as part of their duties.
When the Insolvency Act 1986 was written it was designed to drive out this kind of behaviour and give civil remedies. The UK courts have made a great deal of case law that supports those principles and the guiding idea of most global Insolvency legislation that creditors are given equal rights except where statute specifically provides otherwise.
Not every claim for restoration is viable to bring at a commercial level of course and so sometimes people get away with it.
Youtube clip
Absolute classic, all the boxes ticked.
- Get the Gaffer/CEO/MD/Politician in question looking all 'humanised' and friendly at the start
- Put them in the workshop/sales court/production line because they are 'one of the workers just like everyone else'
- lots of friendly hand motion/body language
- fluff out the bad news with lots of history and things we have done well - the shit sandwich
- "We really appreciate how you are feeling"
- "I personally will make this all ok in the end"
See literally every politician that screwed up, every organisation thats got caught doing something, every merger that lays off masses of staff, every business that walks off with loads of customers money and unpaid debts... Incredibly predictable.
Finally - "comments are turned off'. Funny that, the comments are not turned off on the product launch videos.
that template email ('young talent') is awful. Even if YT have the highest ethical standards and their hands are completely tied there's no excuse for that p** poor customer service
Sorry for the staff and any riders, sorry young talent, who are shafted by this
They had a good stand at the Goodwood Festival of Speed at the weekend and a good bunch of employees that we had a chat and beer with.
Comments on their previous video aren't great to say the least...
16 hours ago
Ordered a bike from YT back in May, no comms just delay after delay until today receiving an email saying the company has gone into voluntary insolvency. Thanks YT i have bought several bikes recommended many friends only to be royally shafted by the company who now wont give my money back just some BS sorry email....... shocking !
12 hours ago
Same, man. I ordered mine 11.05 and also got the email. 4k euro lost. I've also thrusted YT. 3 bikes from them and now this kind of sh*t happened
6 hours ago
Shameful. Silence. They totally bent over a bunch of people. WOW
They had a good stand at the Goodwood Festival of Speed
The owner is a petrolhead. Has a lot of very fast cars
They had a good stand at the Goodwood Festival of Speed
Excellent use of tight funds. Cos the corelation between your average FoS punter and the kind of biking riding done on YT bikes is so very strong! FoS stands are $$$
The owner is a petrolhead. Has a lot of very fast cars
Ah, that's why - good decision making
A last hurrah and feel like the big man on fire sale cash of unfulfilled orders?
Theres the perhaps apocryphal story that Rolls Royce don't go to regular car shows because they look expensive, they go to Yacht shows because they are then an affordable extra.
A top spec YT bike isn't even an afterthought for someone eyeing up a Purosangue (sp?).
All that aside, fingers crossed for anyone who'd recently put an order in.
The owner is a petrolhead. Has a lot of very fast cars
ex-owner isn’t he? Sold out ~5 years ago to a private equity (as always) group
A top spec YT bike isn't even an afterthought for someone eyeing up a Purosangue (sp?).
Have you been to Goodwood FoS - 99.9999% of those attending and wandering the standing might be able to afford a poster of a Purosangue, that they'll take home in the Vauxhall Astra. And...how can I put it politely...you don't see many puddings pedalling bikes. Well...thinking about it, actually riding a bike and owning a bike aren't necessarily the same thing.
I wonder if this affects the downhill race team, Vali etc?
Given what happened to the Nukeproof Team a few years ago, I imagine they're worried. It may be the set-up like Kerr and PFR have with Pivot. They're given a budget / payment at the start of the season and it's there's to use as they see fit so they'll be fine for this year. Doesn't feel like the case though.
Oddly, on the UCI website, Klob and Vali aren't shown on the list of riders for that Team.
If you have been to FOS you will know a surprisingly high % are very wealthy with very nice cars. I live right on one of the routes in as well as attended and the number of expensive cars over the 4 days as well as whenever any other car event is in at Goodwood shows how much wealth there is in this country.
They had a good stand at the Goodwood Festival of Speed at the weekend and a good bunch of employees that we had a chat and beer with.
Yeah...I might have to retract my raffle entry now 😂
If you have been to FOS you will know a surprisingly high % are very wealthy with very nice cars. I live right on one of the routes in as well as attended and the number of expensive cars over the 4 days as well as whenever any other car event is in at Goodwood shows how much wealth there is in this country.
Absolutely. We were blown away. Even in the plebs parking areas the cars were quite ridiculous.
I placed an order with them on 22nd June. It was delivered this morning. Had a mild panic when I opened this thread yesterday. Just hope I dont need to use the warranty!
