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Don't think I've seen this discussed, just saw on reddit that YT customers with outstanding orders are receiving emails advising that the company has entered insolvency and that orders have all been put on hold (and funds already paid dropped into the insolvency estate). Comes right on top of a big sale that must have sucked up a bunch of as-yet-undelivered orders too. Not good news...
If you've got an order outstanding with them, credit card chargeback time I think?
Pinkbike have a story describing it as a "reorganisation" under self-administration and stating that it's business as normal but that seems to contradict what YT are telling customers.
"Hello Young Talent,
We regret to inform you that, due to ongoing insolvency proceedings, your order xxx has been put on hold. As your payment was received before the proceedings officially began, it is legally considered part of the insolvency estate.
At this stage, we are unable to issue refunds or provide further details about the status of your payment. We understand how frustrating and disappointing this situation is, especially without a clear resolution.
If you wish to explore your options, we recommend reaching out to your payment provider to inquire about potential next steps.
We truly regret that we cannot offer you a better solution at the moment, and we’re very sorry for the inconvenience this has caused.
Thank you again for your patience and understanding.
Sincerely, Your YT Industries Team"
They've had some big sales recently. Almost bought a bike myself. Scary stuff.
Ahh, that's sad. I've got one of the first Jeffsys, it's been a brilliant bike - scary to think it's nearly 10 years old now. Been considering getting a newer one as the geo has been updated quite a bit (although it's nearly 2kg heavier), but have to think of something else now.
Without being cynical....that feels quite cynical!
Have a bloody big sale knowing you are on the verge, and not making every effort to get customer's orders out the doors before the doors were shut. Use the cash that's just flooded in to pay staff maybe? Or to pay off a few creditors you want to have a relationship with after your 'reorganisation'....
Wow
Just shows how tough it is out there.
Potentially buying a new bike and the Jeffsy was high up the list, I was disappointed to miss all the recent good deals but looks like I may have been fortunate. I wonder if we will see them saved.
@Convert - I expect they tried to do all those things, but were unable to do it in time.I’m glad I got mine at the beginning of the sale.
Sad for both the people at YT and the customers out of pocket. Hopefully most paid by credit card and can get their money back
I’m not really sure what self administration means in Germany, but sounds like they aim to continue trading into the future somehow?
It also sounds (but could well be wrong) that you'd have an element of control of the timing and could ensure you didn't leave customers relying on credit card companies for their money back by pausing new orders and pushing everything already sold out the door before pulling the trigger....if you'd wanted to.....
I am in two minds as a big fan of the products. BUT if they did have a sale knowing what was happening, and *if* innocent punters lose their money as not protected by CC then I hope the shareholders lose their shirt but that the staff find a new job...with someone more ethical.
Turns out that YT Industries GmbH is registered with Companies House in the UK as an Overseas Entity but their Annual Statement is overdue since February.
YT INDUSTRIES GMBH overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK
That sort of thing should be a red flag to anyone thinking of trading with a company but it's the sort of thing that few of us think of checking.
I wonder if this affects the downhill race team, Vali etc?
I always wondered about the choice of "YT Mob".
The sale was probably a desperate measure to get cashflow to keep them solvent. Now they’re in this legal mess I imagine their hands are tied but I’d be very surprised if they don’t fulfil these outstanding orders unless they can’t save the company.
I know they originally traded on price but their bikes consistently review very well and I think they’ve got a strong brand (notwithstanding some things I’ve heard about the owner which are particularly worrying for a German company…)
Yeah the sale <could> be extremely shitty tbf, there are some very crappy but legal things you can do when just on teh verge of insolvency, like paying off specific creditors before you're stuck in the formal process so they get funds they wouldn't do otherwise, or restructuring debt etc like Orange/Bairstow did to load all the debt in one place so it can be ditched. etc etc. Lots of exploits basically.
But equally if they were just on the edge rather than absolutely in the toilet, maybe a succesful sale could have kept them afloat. Guess we'll find out in like 3 years.
there are some very crappy but legal things you can do when just on teh verge of insolvency, like paying off specific creditors before you're stuck in the formal process so they get funds they wouldn't do otherwise
I cannot speak for the German regime but in the UK you cannot lawfully prefer some creditors over others to put them in a better position than they otherwise would have been unless there is some objectively justifiable reason (like you need to keep the lights on or keep access to data or keep insurance in place).
It's called a preference and it's covered by Section 239 of the Insolvency Act and the look back period is up to 2 years with connected parties. It is also challengeable as a breach of duty by the directors and potential grounds for disqualification. This is a specific area that liquidators and administrators investigate as part of their duties.
When the Insolvency Act 1986 was written it was designed to drive out this kind of behaviour and give civil remedies. The UK courts have made a great deal of case law that supports those principles and the guiding idea of most global Insolvency legislation that creditors are given equal rights except where statute specifically provides otherwise.
Not every claim for restoration is viable to bring at a commercial level of course and so sometimes people get away with it.
Youtube clip
Absolute classic, all the boxes ticked.
- Get the Gaffer/CEO/MD/Politician in question looking all 'humanised' and friendly at the start
- Put them in the workshop/sales court/production line because they are 'one of the workers just like everyone else'
- lots of friendly hand motion/body language
- fluff out the bad news with lots of history and things we have done well - the shit sandwich
- "We really appreciate how you are feeling"
- "I personally will make this all ok in the end"
See literally every politician that screwed up, every organisation thats got caught doing something, every merger that lays off masses of staff, every business that walks off with loads of customers money and unpaid debts... Incredibly predictable.
Finally - "comments are turned off'. Funny that, the comments are not turned off on the product launch videos.
that template email ('young talent') is awful. Even if YT have the highest ethical standards and their hands are completely tied there's no excuse for that p** poor customer service
Sorry for the staff and any riders, sorry young talent, who are shafted by this
They had a good stand at the Goodwood Festival of Speed at the weekend and a good bunch of employees that we had a chat and beer with.
Comments on their previous video aren't great to say the least...
16 hours ago
Ordered a bike from YT back in May, no comms just delay after delay until today receiving an email saying the company has gone into voluntary insolvency. Thanks YT i have bought several bikes recommended many friends only to be royally shafted by the company who now wont give my money back just some BS sorry email....... shocking !
12 hours ago
Same, man. I ordered mine 11.05 and also got the email. 4k euro lost. I've also thrusted YT. 3 bikes from them and now this kind of sh*t happened
6 hours ago
Shameful. Silence. They totally bent over a bunch of people. WOW
They had a good stand at the Goodwood Festival of Speed
The owner is a petrolhead. Has a lot of very fast cars
They had a good stand at the Goodwood Festival of Speed
Excellent use of tight funds. Cos the corelation between your average FoS punter and the kind of biking riding done on YT bikes is so very strong! FoS stands are $$$
The owner is a petrolhead. Has a lot of very fast cars
Ah, that's why - good decision making
A last hurrah and feel like the big man on fire sale cash of unfulfilled orders?
Theres the perhaps apocryphal story that Rolls Royce don't go to regular car shows because they look expensive, they go to Yacht shows because they are then an affordable extra.
A top spec YT bike isn't even an afterthought for someone eyeing up a Purosangue (sp?).
All that aside, fingers crossed for anyone who'd recently put an order in.
The owner is a petrolhead. Has a lot of very fast cars
ex-owner isn’t he? Sold out ~5 years ago to a private equity (as always) group
A top spec YT bike isn't even an afterthought for someone eyeing up a Purosangue (sp?).
Have you been to Goodwood FoS - 99.9999% of those attending and wandering the standing might be able to afford a poster of a Purosangue, that they'll take home in the Vauxhall Astra. And...how can I put it politely...you don't see many puddings pedalling bikes. Well...thinking about it, actually riding a bike and owning a bike aren't necessarily the same thing.
I wonder if this affects the downhill race team, Vali etc?
Given what happened to the Nukeproof Team a few years ago, I imagine they're worried. It may be the set-up like Kerr and PFR have with Pivot. They're given a budget / payment at the start of the season and it's there's to use as they see fit so they'll be fine for this year. Doesn't feel like the case though.
Oddly, on the UCI website, Klob and Vali aren't shown on the list of riders for that Team.
If you have been to FOS you will know a surprisingly high % are very wealthy with very nice cars. I live right on one of the routes in as well as attended and the number of expensive cars over the 4 days as well as whenever any other car event is in at Goodwood shows how much wealth there is in this country.
They had a good stand at the Goodwood Festival of Speed at the weekend and a good bunch of employees that we had a chat and beer with.
Yeah...I might have to retract my raffle entry now 😂
If you have been to FOS you will know a surprisingly high % are very wealthy with very nice cars. I live right on one of the routes in as well as attended and the number of expensive cars over the 4 days as well as whenever any other car event is in at Goodwood shows how much wealth there is in this country.
Absolutely. We were blown away. Even in the plebs parking areas the cars were quite ridiculous.
I placed an order with them on 22nd June. It was delivered this morning. Had a mild panic when I opened this thread yesterday. Just hope I dont need to use the warranty!
It’s not just customers left in the lurch, the Taiwan frame fabricators haven’t been paid for the frames that have shipped.
FALLOUT FROM YT RESTRUCTURINGIdeal also reports that the restructuring of its customer YT Industries in Germany exposed it to some risk. Ideal’s creditor claims against YT Industries GmbH's operations in Germany and Taiwan total $423,000 (US). Ideal’s lawyers are requesting that YT Industries GmbH pay off the debts or return the goods.
Kenstone Metal, another Taiwan bike maker, which is a subsidiary of publicly traded Darfon Electronics, has also notified the Taiwan stock exchange that the YT Industries restructuring puts it at some risk of loss. Kenstone told the exchange in July that YT owes it NT$180 million (about $6 million at Aug. 14 exchange rates).
I noticed a few UK-based influencers have quietly switched off their Instagram comments recently.
One of them copped a torrent of abuse after posting about taking delivery of their shiny new YT e-bike.
Why they thought it appropriate to post that not long after the story broke is beyond me. If it’s just contractual, it tells you everything you need to know about both the brand and the individual: integrity sold off cheap for profile, while actual customers are left hanging.
But I've long held the belief that's influencer culture in a nutshell; superficial, vacuous, and cynical marketing for brands.
The irony is these are same people who never miss a chance to bang on about the MTB 'culture' and 'community', but are the first to torch both the moment there’s something in it for them.
MTB media is drenched in this story, customer frustration is palpable and yet we still get tone-deaf flexes on Instagram.
Most bike 'influencer' content is just nonsense - Some of the YT influencers from what I see are below average bike riders but above average at creating the kind of content people seem to click on and therefore exposure.
Lib_mtb is one such example, very little recent riding content and when there is its average riding at best, meanwhile I know of a couple of local girls racing that couldn't get a free innertube and at 14 are faaar better on the bike.
YT owing $6million to one Taiwanese supplier is surely an existential issue - I didn't think they would be so far into the red, surely there is no process by which this debt can be wiped and the relationship with this supplier being maintained in the future so they can continue trading - and I imagine the factory hold all the carbon molds, jigs etc.
Shame, I like YT, really goes to show the industry isn't making huge profits from customers, YT's margin was obviously too thin to be sustainable.
Let’s be honest, nobody knows the deal on what is paid to most influencers. Bikes might be on loan (as in a long term old school magazine bike test) or they might simply have a discount on the bike. I don’t think most influencers in the mtb add much but they’re not the problem here
anyone in limbo still and had any contact? Just curious if you were in that period if you’ve been told what’s going on
https://marriottco.co.uk/auctions/#!/auctions/aedaad4d-f769-4f26-a0f1-a05c60754da7?ic=30
Pick over the bones of YT UK here, down to the goat's head.
Looking through some of the stuff there it looks like YT's Surrey place was no expense spared, budget was not a consideration. Some of those work benches & cabinets are rather tempting. However with hammer fee and VAT added it means every £100 bid is £138 final cost.
Bikes might be on loan
A few years ago, Seth did a piece about how this wasn't always the benefit that you may imagine. Quite often bikes are abandoned with influencers which leaves them in a grey area of being responsible for them without having ownership of them.
It’s not just customers left in the lurch, the Taiwan frame fabricators haven’t been paid for the frames that have shipped.
It would be deliciously ironic if someone 'bought' the YT Industries UK brand and the excess stock and start selling their frames.
Brexit benefit.
It would be deliciously ironic if someone 'bought' the YT Industries UK brand and the excess stock and start selling their frames.
Brexit benefit.
If you say that 3 times in front of a mirror Mike Ashley will appear 😆
Some of those work benches & cabinets are rather tempting. However with hammer fee and VAT added it means every £100 bid is £138 final cost.
I’m trying to resist a stupid purchase, especially of anything I wouldn’t be able to transport myself. Hopefully the bids will rise significantly and I’ll forget about it.
I’m trying to resist a stupid purchase, especially of anything I wouldn’t be able to transport myself. Hopefully the bids will rise significantly and I’ll forget about it.
^ 😀 I’d not want to park a YT sign written van in the walking bottom car park, I may get YT lynch mobbed
Some of those work benches & cabinets are rather tempting. However with hammer fee and VAT added it means every £100 bid is £138 final cost.
I’m trying to resist a stupid purchase, especially of anything I wouldn’t be able to transport myself. Hopefully the bids will rise significantly and I’ll forget about it.
you've bid on the mannequins, haven't you?
I may get YT lynch mobbed
Just makes me sad knowing that a friend of mine (and my son's) has got laid off as a result of all this. Hope it all works out well for him in the end.
Did those who ordered in the fire sale, which took place just before they went into administration, end up getting their orders do we know?