Whilst rad, mountain biking isn't all gnar, and by presenting it like that, lots of people are missing out an all the easy fun that mountain biking could offer them.
This does go along to some thoughts I've been having lately after a bit of a break from the sport (putting the slightly clickbaity title aside, anyway). My last ride was with Freeride Madeira, incredible day out with lots of fun and a good balance of scenery vs adrenaline. And afterwards as my ageing battered body recovered I started to think about being effectively retired from the sport. Like, I just didn't want to go do it again, whereas my usual experience is to be busting to get back out there as soon as possible.
Meanwhile my bike back home has a rear brake problem I can't seem to summon the energy to diagnose and fix, and I can't really use the bike safely without it, so months later on I just haven't. I still take the old hardtail out with my kid to the BMX track now and again but that's about it. I feel like I suddenly aged out of wanting to push myself on the gnarly stuff that I always associated with the sport. The recent weather has been making me feel like getting back at it, historically XC has left me a bit cold but maybe that's what I need now, at least for a while. I shall see! If I had terrain like that in the video on my doorstep, maybe I'd be more into it!
No idea about the guy's main thrust about new riders... I have seen a few videos of people trundling through beautiful scenery and they're very nice but maybe not as easy to market as the big jumps and thrill-ride stuff. When I was starting out it was the idea of progressing to all those cool crazy skills that drew me in.
Still love a good XC ride with lots of pedalling and climbing. There seems to be too much focus now days on descending and uplifts.
Most of my riding is old school XC, 30-60km days out at weekends of just riding around, stop at a cafe/pub and riding back. That's why i have the Trek Fuel nowdays as my only bike, it's superb for that. Then every now and again it's a bit of FoD/wherever for a bit of adrenaline, but with so much racing, i rarely get out for weekends.
Wanderingaroundthescenery biking for me.
Ive always felt there are two main types of bikers. Those who use their mtb to go places and those for whom the actual riding is key. Landrover or rally car.
Ive always felt there are two main types of bikers. Those who use their mtb to go places and those for whom the actual riding is key. Landrover or rally car.
That's an interesting comparison, though some riders (including me) happily switch between them. Especially now gravel is a thing.
I've just bought a cheap 10-year-old hardtail (without a dropper) and have enjoyed/endured a couple of local XC rides, just for the sake of doing something a bit different and embracing the limitations.
I'd say the majority of my riding is the equivalent of going for a walk on my bike, just further and (slightly!) faster, and I think that's why there's been such a rise in people "gravel" riding which is mainly just going out for a bimble on whatever bike you have/enjoy riding for longer days out over mixed terrain.
But I also appreciate that's not as marketable/aspirational and doesn't really drive the progression of bikes/kit etc forwards to keep the industry and the people working in it fed. And I don't mean that in a "they just want our money" way, I mean there are loads of passionate people out there that want to develop new and better things and also eek a living from it which I think is great.
@milko9000 makes a really good point and reminds me that I really, really need to get my Stumpy to the mechanic (like I said I would last year) for a bunch of work. Winter indoor training just took up so much of my life I could not summon the energy to drop it off. Hell, I used the beater hardtail more than the full sus last year and those combined were less used than my road bike.
I need to go out and cycle more. I kind of miss it.
I also appreciate that's not as marketable/aspirational
I believe gravel bike sales are still thriving, compared to non-eeb MTBs - and a lot of the marketing seems to be about exploring and social riding rather than performance - probably still aspirational though TBF.
This isn't really mirrored in MTB marketing, to my knowledge. Maybe it should be, eh?
No one is lying to me, I've always done mostly XC riding on my own as thats whats on my door step. Call it gravel if you like but riding bridleways and stuff in nice scenery is great. Always come back smiling from a nice ride on my 100mm hardtail, which is actually marketed as a gravel type bike, Cotic Cascade, but I run it with flat bars and a suspension fork.
That said I've just bought a Cotic Rocket Max for big stuff and love it. It climbs really well as well, so will be great for days out in the peak as well as DH in the Alps and UK stuff in between.
I love it all. Riding bikes is great!
I really, really need to get my Stumpy to the mechanic (like I said I would last year) for a bunch of work. Winter indoor training just took up so much of my life I could not summon the energy to drop it off.
Do it yourself, fixing most stuff on a bike is really easy. Literally just turning bolts.
Sorry (genuinely), but I'm not a video person, so no clue what he actually says.
But I agree with the broad headline. For example, Bikeradar is a great site generally, but I really resent the incredibly marketing-BS-centric approach of much of their coverage. "Why you NEED an emtb (that costs £4k)", "this 160mm trail bike is a must-have", "only £8k? What a bargain for this go-anywhere bike!": while they may not use those exact headlines, it really paints this picture that an old hack bike for £300 isn't 'proper' mountain biking, and you need to give your head a wobble.
I suspect STW is quite a skewed group in a way - we're all experienced enough in MTBing to know that the only real criteria is to just have fun, however you do it. But for many relative newcomers I've no doubt there's this sense that without all the gear you won't be able to do it properly, or get enough out of it. Why do you think we see so many multi-thousand pound ebikes on trails where it used to be £300 GT starter bikes etc?
Oh, and I dragged myself out for the first time in 7 months at the weekend. I'd been putting it off, with "I need a new drivetrain", "need to fettle" and so on, but finally got out to the local trail centre and just loved it. I wasn't particularly on it, but loved how well it flowed and can't wait to get out again - even after all this time it amazes me how much I put it off!
I do quite like Matty and his videos, but he seems to be going a bit heavy on the reverse elitism lately.
I get his POV that people starting out don't need an expensive or super capable bike but there's nothing wrong with these bikes existing for those that do want to ride gnarlier trails than what Matty rides.
The article title is click-baity af by the way 😀
that's why there's been such a rise in people "gravel" riding which is mainly just going out for a bimble on whatever bike you have/enjoy riding for longer days out over mixed terrain.
But I also appreciate that's not as marketable/aspirational
I think you'll find that the industry has had no problem making gravel riding marketable...
I’m afraid this thread is just pushing my growing hatred of overly click-bait-y titles even higher than usual. I watched about 30 seconds of the video and had enough - I realised that no one is actually lying to me about anything. My expectations for STW are higher than this. But I guess this is how the world is today and there’s no point in whinging about it. Even here.
Personally I enjoy the technicallity of riding - but that doesn't have to mean an ever increasing arms race of travel, head angle and armour and uplifted or e-assisted climbing to access the steeper harder trails they require.
I'll happily have fun flicking my little trail bike around local flat woodland trails.
I love trying to extract speed on a rolling blue trail centre.
Technical climbs are great tests of skill.
Getting fit just means I can do more of the riding I like.
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I do think the current bike marketing leaves something to be desired. I know we can have an infinite argument on "over-biking" and people are free to spent their money how they want but some people really are on the wrong bike (or wrongly specced bike).
I've said before on threads about the rise of e-bikes - I reckon the next generation of XC bikes will be the pedal powered pinnacle of the sport. And some of the current gen are pretty damn close. Electric bikes will take most of the bigger travel gnar market.
Whilst rad, mountain biking isn’t all gnar
Just to be clear, the only place where MTB is rad is Germany, perhaps Austria, and NE Switzerland...
I think you'll find that the industry has had no problem making gravel riding marketable...
Sorry to be clear what I mean is that it's not that marketable as "Mountain Biking" and getting that section of the market/demographic motivated to spend money on the latest thing. Gravel is obviously a big trend currently, but with mountain bikes already being incredibly capable and/or fast there's not a lot of innovation to sell to that market to enable them to 'just pedal about'.
In this video I will be talking about some misconceptions when It comes to mountain biking and how all the expensive bikes and difficult trails are not what mountain biking is all about.
To him.
To others MTB is whatever the hell they want to define it as.
Nobody is lying, if anyone is showing a lack of integrity it is people whose greater motivation is seeking validation via disingenuous opinion pieces like this.
To others MTB is whatever the hell they want to define it as.
you'll get no better example of this than to ask a cross section of experienced riders (i.e., has been at it long enough to know what they like and get to the appropriate skill and fitness to enjoy it) to describe their ideal "one bike to do it all".
Someone will tell you how a 170mm enduro is ideal as it can handle uplift/park riding but is "still an efficient climber."
And the next reply will be an XC hardtail which apparently "can handle every UK trail" while being tolerable on tarmac.
Personally I enjoy the technicallity of riding - but that doesn't have to mean an ever increasing arms race of travel, head angle and armour and uplifted or e-assisted climbing to access the steeper harder trails they require
Slight issue with that, having had 13-14 years off MTB-ing and returned: What we used to call XC is now considered gravel riding for some... it's like expectations have changed. So has the bike market.
Buying a new bike recently, I was effectively pushed onto a 29er with more travel. That's how the market has gone I guess. Now my rides suit the FS 29-er bike that I bought... I'm still enjoying myself, and I'm still a big chicken.
But the bike's changed my riding. I wasn't seeking that when I went out shopping in the first place... it just happened. 🤷♂️
Classic victim of bike market 'progress', and I've been sucked in to riding a penny farthing (29-er). 😂
A genuine question: Youngsters tend to want MTBs... but they generally don't ride off-road. It's like they want the coolness of being on a MTB. I wonder how much of this hype is to drive the market at the bottom end (i.e. Carrerra bikes with 'wing wang' forks), which might be the most profitable? 🤔
Slight issue with that, having had 13-14 years off MTB-ing and returned: What we used to call XC is now considered gravel riding for some... it's like expectations have changed. So has the bike market.
What I call XC I mean in the style of a current XC format race - although doing that riding in a non-competitive-and-allowed-to-stop-to-catch-your-breath-manner, and it could be on bridleways, trail centres, or your local woodland.
A mix of "made" and natural obstacles/challenges, uphill, downhill and flat; on a bike meant to be equally good at all of it.
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Mixed surface touring might have a cool new name and 14 years ago a contemporary XC bike might have been the best choice. But I wouldn't have used that as the definition of XC.
A genuine question: Youngsters tend to want MTBs... but they generally don't ride off-road. It's like they want the coolness of being on a MTB. I wonder how much of this hype is to drive the market at the bottom end (i.e. Carrerra bikes with 'wing wang' forks), which might be the most profitable? 🤔
Richard Cunningham had some good words to say on this.
In the 90's MTB boom, a mountain bike was the thing to have for most people... because compared to the possible alternatives of a 90s road bike 17mm tyres, 44x20 bottom gear, or a hub geared shopper/townie...
you had a gear range that was appropriate for a less than fit person to ride on a variety of grades, up and down; a seating position that was comfy for a few hours and gave you a good view of traffic; brakes that worked; and tyres (all 1.9" of them!) that were still at a ridable pressure after leaving it in the garage for 2 weeks that could handle dirt and going up and down curbs while still working on tarmac.
These days there are so many more options on the spectrum, but the mental association remains.
I'd argue that in 2025, if those are your only metrics for a bike, then my hugely expensive trail bike is inferior in every way to the below bike at ~10% of the cost.
Yeah.
MTB peaked a while ago, imho. I still love it even if I'm no longer really aligned with it as a 'thing'. But would I invest in it if there was an MTB industry tracker? Nope. The trend doesn't look good - reduced earnings, high competition and low PODs, high cost of entry and a shrinking customer base - plus a proposal presentation that promises more than it can deliver, as the article here gets into. You'd hope you'd have got out when it was stagnating pre-covid. Along that line of thinking there's certainly small companies you would want to back, but not the overall industry.
On the marketing side, imho if MTB marketers had more of a clue or better grasp of reality and what customers wanted there wouldn't be so many people struggling to ride gravel bikes off-road*. I mean, how have gravel bikes become the default ATB? How did most MTB brand mess that up? If your riding is about the off-road but it's still ATB more than BPW .. drop bars make no sense. That's why CX bikes weren't the boom thing of the mid-late 80s, 'mountain bikes' were. But in recent years Rapha probably had more influence than any MTB brand in what a lot of people ride for mix terrain stuff.
*I know, some of us like underbiking and I love drop bar bikes that can go off-road. But the size of the gravel bike sales / market for actual light-duty off-road use says to me that the commonly-marketed MTB side of things like FS bikes, goggles, cutties, jumps and all that is being rejected and has been sidelined by the majority of riders (riders as in anyone who ride a bike for active leisure - roadies, gravellers, MTB, tourers, etc).
A genuine question: Youngsters tend to want MTBs... but they generally don't ride off-road. It's like they want the coolness of being on a MTB.
Interesting Q. I think they don't want the uncoolness of a road bike and they want to pull wheelies. It's also not really an 'MTB is cool' thing, it's an urban bike culture thing.
But the size of the gravel bike sales / market for actual light-duty off-road use says to me that the commonly-marketed MTB side of things like FS bikes, goggles, cutties, jumps and all that is being rejected and has been sidelined by the majority of riders (riders as in anyone who ride a bike for active leisure - roadies, gravellers, MTB, tourers, etc).
The game changer for me: When UCI finally allowed disc brakes on CX bikes... thank god! Gravel bikes were born after that I think?
Why on earth do muggles have to wait for pros to adopt things? It's a bit backwards IMO.
Why on earth do muggles have to wait for pros to adopt things? It's a bit backwards IMO.
To be fair, pros did adopt gravel bikes after normal riders already had.
The game changer for me: When UCI finally allowed disc brakes on CX bikes... thank god! Gravel bikes were born after that I think?
Similar here, or when discs for drop bar STIs were available, more accurately. There were people/brands making "heavy, race-illegal, I don't get it.." disc-equipped CX bikes for byway bashing some years before the UCI allowed them in races in 2010-11 (I was one of them). Who needs racing to sell a bike.. Another point a lot of MTB marketing seems to miss.
My spanish friend called my bike "a countryside bicycle". She was right.
I evolved from the early 90's XC over the years as fashions changed, more trail centres were built and bikes became more capable. This went turbo after my riding pals gave up for a while as my riding became exclusively trail centres or short technical rides I'd drive to.
Then in covid my pal got a gravel bike so I did too. We really enjoyed gentler rides retracing our childhood routes. Gave me back my XC buzz and now the majority of my riding is from home in the Dales. GB changed to carbon XC and I dropped as much road as possible. Planning on some longer rides this summer so just need to finish building my new Spur and I'll be off!
I had planned to change my bigger bike but I'm not sure how much use it will get now so I'll be keeping it unless an insane offer lands in my lap.
My spanish friend called my bike "a countryside bicycle". She was right.
I often call my bike something shorter but similar. Often around the same time I'm changing bearings or bleeding brakes...
Youngsters tend to want MTBs... but they generally don't ride off-road. It's like they want the coolness of being on a MTB
Any different to people doing a school run in a 4x4? It's just an image thing. They could go off road, but they never will. See also divers watches, etc, etc.
One thing that concerns me about gravel is roadies bringing their attitude to the dirt.
Sure ,on the road ride big but there's no place for chain gangs when there's other people enjoying the countryside. If I encounter a walker I slow down and say hello. Gravel roadies seem to just charge through.
I'm only basing my findings on videos of someone I follow on you tube but some of it makes me wince.
It is all riding bikes and all good, I don't see why people get all tribal over it.
I have a hardtail, I do thousands of miles a year from the door, bridleways, woodland paths, trips to country pubs, sunsets and getting some fresh air.
I have a full suss, great for trail centres, days out, holidays and big stuff.
I have a road bike that I used to commute on but hasn't been used in years, I should really get rid of it.
I am about to invest in an ebike for big, big days out.
I say ride the bike you like, where you like, as often as you like and ignore all the background noise.
One thing that concerns me about gravel is roadies bringing their attitude to the dirt.
Sure ,on the road ride big but there's no place for chain gangs when there's other people enjoying the countryside. If I encounter a walker I slow down and say hello. Gravel roadies seem to just charge through.
I'm only basing my findings on videos of someone I follow on you tube but some of it makes me wince.
Long before gravel was popular I've seen people on mountain bikes:
-XC riders blast past on a climb with a roadie scowl and no acknowledgement
-"Enduro" riders do the same on descents, sometimes throwing in a trail wrecking skid for good measure.
-Group trail rides with bits on fire roads/ bridleways where those in the back half of the group get the peleton mentality and lose all sense of bodily autonomy, common sense and self preservation and just blindly copy the herd.
I don't think the choice of handlebars makes people dicks.
I haven't watched the video, but anyway... I don't ride much nowadays. When I do I would say it's an xc/ wander around/ sort of ride where am trying to ride as much as possible in the time I have, but still hit as many trails as possible so it's not just bridleways. My xc bike is 10years old now but still fine for this. I just don't hit the big gaps the kids have built though. It's wheels on the ground(mostly) xc not sending xc. Just riding a bike.
One thing that concerns me about gravel is roadies bringing their attitude to the dirt.
Sure ,on the road ride big but there's no place for chain gangs when there's other people enjoying the countryside. If I encounter a walker I slow down and say hello. Gravel roadies seem to just charge through.
I'm only basing my findings on videos of someone I follow on you tube but some of it makes me wince.Long before gravel was popular I've seen people on mountain bikes:
-XC riders blast past on a climb with a roadie scowl and no acknowledgement
-"Enduro" riders do the same on descents, sometimes throwing in a trail wrecking skid for good measure.
-Group trail rides with bits on fire roads/ bridleways where those in the back half of the group get the peleton mentality and lose all sense of bodily autonomy, common sense and self preservation and just blindly copy the herd.
I don't think the choice of handlebars makes people dicks.
I've seen in various places, some MTB/Gravel/hybrid riders do just that - charging through the place like they own it, effectively bullying walkers (who actually have right of way) as well as everyone else.
...I can't help but think (each time): is that why some roadies get treated badly?
Let's face it, the vast majority of walkers drive to these places - let's not annoy them.🤞
MTBing seems to have a a general perception issue (for both participants and observers), presented as being non-stop Gnarr with people banging on about progression and adrenalin, when it can't all be like that all of the time.
I've got two very different flavours of MTB these days a bouncy one and a rigid one, and they cover quite a potential spectrum of uses between them from efficient long distance trundling to uplifted Gnarr. Hypothetically the bouncy one could "do it all" on it's own, but where's the fun in that? I've had various DH, Trail, Dirt jumper and XC bikes over the years the definition of an "MTB" or indeed "MTBing" is so broad now as to be almost meaningless.
At the same time why do we think Gravel has become so popular? (got a couple of those too); It doesn't seem to come with the expectation that participants regularly exceed their skills/ability and have to take time out for broken bones to heal, there's a bit more of a focus on getting out and about and using a bike as a tool to see the world, rather than finding new and exciting ways to cheat death or serious injury. That's clearly got some appeal to quite a lot of people too...
Of course the curly barred bikes will never compete with the fun of battling your way through a bunch of lose turns, drops and jumps to successfully clean a tricky line on a machine that is a bit more equal to the task (and is only really limited by the meat sack in charge of it).
I guess the key is balance and recognising you don't have to spend all of your time on a bike trying to dance on the edge of calamity, some times it's nice to scare yourself a little, but nobody can live like that all the time... Not really very profound is it?
One thing that concerns me about gravel is roadies bringing their attitude to the dirt.
Kind of starting from the assumption that Gravel bike riders are all just "Roadies" with a new hobby. I'm not so sure that's the case...
I don't think anyone is lying to me about mountain biking, but it has evolved around me whilst my preferences have largely stayed the same.
I was 26 when I got the bug and I'm now 51.
Back then, the 90s were drawing to a close and unless you were a DHer you were an XC rider or a trials rider. I was a trail hacker then and I'm a trail hacker now, just an older, less fit and more skilled and experienced one.
The marketing and trail centre culture that has grown up in the intervening years has lead to less expectations on physical effort actually cycling and more focus on jumping, drops and flat out speed down some kind of gradient, but all the other iterations of what mtbing is or has been are still out there but aren't as fashionable right now.
You just have to choose the one you like doing.
I guess the key is balance and recognising you don't have to spend all of your time on a bike trying to dance on the edge of calamity, some times it's nice to scare yourself a little, but nobody can live like that all the time... Not really very profound is it?
For you? Cool. For others, maybe it's not about balance.
For me it's either local gnar, or the uplifted gnar. Regularly hitting the adrenaline button is something that serves a purpose for me.
I don't do gentle routes or scenic bimbles on the bike, I get more enjoyment from walking them with Ms. RM and the hound.
But what I'm not going to do, now or ever (nor should anyone else) is tell others how they should define what MTBing is for them.
I watched the video and felt it was a bunch of self-indulgent tripe which pops out via such mediums every now and again.
MTBing is what you make it, want it and/or need it to be for you.
There endeth my sermon.
Huh, the article got no comments for a few days but apparently I opened a modest floodgate with mine today.
I don't know that I had a particular point, it was just that the video had some moments that struck a chord with me where I've been questioning what I enjoy about the pastime lately, along with having a few competing interests making it so I get out less on the bike anyway. Might just be a longish loss of mojo interlude, might be a permanent change, I dunno. Interesting to see all these thoughts about what the industry and trends are doing to people's perceptions though. It feels like the clickbait title is a little counterproductive in that sense but that seems to be the way of the world now.
The article title is click-baity af by the way
I couldn't be arsed with watching it or that reason, it's like all the videos about why XVZ 'is a con' - Gore-Tex is a classic. Or plus-sized tyres etc. Why ice cream is the biggest con ever etc
I just like riding bikes. No-one's lying to me about it because I'm not gormless enough to confuse social media or advertising with reality.
My spanish friend called my bike "a countryside bicycle". She was right.
Is this an example of the tribe/ club attitude of cycling in the UK. Here you are in or out depending on the bike you ride.
European cyclists are different they are a united sport/leisure group, perhaps that's why cycling is well supported by the governments.
Also tell me why XC biking is different from gravel or bikepacking, isn't it just going out on unprepared trails? Racing is a different story.
My spanish friend called my bike "a countryside bicycle". She was right.
Is this an example of the tribe/ club attitude of cycling in the UK. Here you are in or out depending on the bike you ride.
European cyclists are different they are a united sport/leisure group, perhaps that's why cycling is well supported by the governments.
Also tell me why XC biking is different from gravel or bikepacking, isn't it just going out on unprepared trails etc? Racing is a different story.
My spanish friend called my bike "a countryside bicycle".
That's sweet 🙂
There was a thread some time ago where I think I suggested we rebrand off-road riding as "wild cycling" to align with swimming, camping and any other fashionable, Guardian-friendly outdoors activities.
Personally I'd like to see (even more) middle-aged women out on bikes.
I'm broadly sympathetic to what Matty is saying. For most film makers maxxing the gnarr is what works for them, and the development of mountain bikes over the last 3 decades means that you can go and buy the same bike that Metallier or Barelli rides, but very few of us live in Washington State or the Sea to Sky corridor. Riding a 160mm travel bike in any terrain that doesn't need it (as most folks quickly find out) a bit of a pain, and even if you do have that terrain, the speed at which you can do shit at now, even as a regular Joe can lead to some pretty impressive 3rd law moments.
I like riding the 50 miles along the TPT to the coast and back, along the canal/river side on my Hardtail barely breaking 300m of climbing, but then I also enjoy scaring the shit out of myself at places like Revolution or Antur Stiniog . There's space for both.
when I first got into MTBing as a teen in the early 90s, I was partially attracted by the sort of 'rad dude', outsider kind of imagery.
But when it came down to it, I was a bit of a wuss and didn't really have the cojones to be doing the huge dropoffs and big jumps that some of my peers were.
in the 2000s I looked at the rise of trail centres, uplifts, and driving your bike to ride it with a sort of disdain I couldn't put my finger on, eventually realising that what I really liked about MTBing wasn't the gnar at all, but 'getting away from it' and having a little adventure. Exploring, getting lost, pushing your bike across a bog in the rain, hacking through the woods, finding a good bit of singletrack you've never done before, seeing somewhere new, telling your mum you were going out and coming back 6 hours and 50 miles later, cold and covered in mud.
Which, now, feels like 'gravel' riding to me. Back then, a 50 mile ride would involve at least 25 miles of road, and it would be done on a bike with 1.95" tyres and no suspension. That's still what I'm interested in now, albeit with additional pub action.
I do love to challenge myself, and that often means trying to ride stupid enduro trails at the Golfie or whatever.
But my favourite riding is whatever is just over the limit of what a gravel bike can handle. Give me a long flowing hilltop with some chattery rocks and bumpy bits, or a big mountain, or just a big loop in the wilderness. There does seem to be a race to make every ride as technical and sendy as possible whereas I just like going faster than walking away from the city generally.
I used to want to only ride DH/park and didn't really enjoy pedally rides at all. It was all about going bigger each time, ended up getting a bit sick of the pressure of constantly pushing myself. Had a few years mostly off MTB when my kids were younger which kind of put a stop to all that. I've lost my bottle a bit now and I don't really enjoy that kind of riding any more. Up until recently I still wanted to get back to where I was on jumps etc, but suddenly something just changed in my head and I'm not really interested.
What excites me now is just getting out and putting some miles in, riding up/down some hills, finding some good bits of singletrack and enjoying the scenery. I still favour the descents of course but enjoy a challenging climb too. Maybe the DH and trail centre stuff will come back at some point but for now I'm enjoying the "classic xc" type of riding more. Still not sure whether I'm ready for a gravel bike though, I want to actually enjoy the descents still. Have been thinking of swapping my trail bike in for something more xc/downcountry but not sure if I want to commit to that yet in case I regret it being more compromised downhill!
Youngsters tend to want MTBs... but they generally don't ride off-road. It's like they want the coolness of being on a MTB
I have 2 youngsters. One likes riding bikes but only if it's relatively flat and "not bumpy". The other asks me at least twice a week when he can "get a downhill bike". As far as he's concerned, that means dual crown. There is an element of coolness in this (from his POV), combined with a good measure of neurodivergence. However, get past that and fundamentally he loves riding bikes, which as far as I'm concerned is a win as it is far better then spending is whole time playing Fortnite, and also a win as I get to spend quality time with him. As a consequence I've had a reason (excuse?) to buy my first full suspension bike to try to keep up with him (long story short his neurodivergence can be a barrier to riding with kids his age), and I've pushed myself out of my comfort zone a bit. Whilst this hasn't always been smooth sailing, my skills have improved and benefited my usual riding, I've met new people, and had some fun. At the end of the day, it's all riding and better for well-being than staring at a screen.
Whilst he prefers riding on built trails (we are fortunate to live close to Descend/Hamsterley), when we have gone out into the big wide world he has also had a great time (the Borrowdale Bash last year being a good example), so the lines are definitely blurred when it comes to the types of riding he enjoys, and I hope that as he matures he'll develop more of an appreciation for other types of adventure.
Personally I prefer the big expedition to explore the wider world and get satisfaction from multiple things (the physical effort, the technical challenges of non-built trails, the mental health boost from seeing the world from a different perspective, the random conversations you have with strangers). I also derive satisfaction from having built my bike (including the wheels) and from maintaining my bike (there's a current thread about that!). 'Zen and the Art of MTB Maintenance' etc. I don't think it really matters what your regular bike is classed as, how many you have, or where you choose to ride. As long as you enjoy riding it/them and get out of the house for a few hours it's a win, both from a mental health and physical perspective.
Media (magazines and VHS videos back then) certainly played a part for me back in the day - Dirt, JMC and the boys, Peaty racing a Kona HT were all alluring. Even preceding that era though, I always wanted an MTB. I loved the idea of a bike that could ride rough tracks, going back to my Raleigh Bomber.
The 90's scene saw riders doing stuff that seemed way beyond my skill level, but not totally out of touch with reality. We all rode Fort Bill WC early 2000's and albeit slowly, we made it down ok.
These days, I don't really have any interest in watching massive jump lines - that's not MTB to me. And Red Bull Rampage - it's ok for a few minutes for the wow factor, but none of it is relatable to me in a sense of anything I'd even want to try.
Lets not try and pretend we aren't influenced in some way by social media though. From reading reviews (often with a pinch of salt) about something you might want to buy, to viewing ride pics on here and thinking you'd maybe like to ride there.
I know the type of riding I like - an actual ride with some tech features and nice downhill. A lot of the local riding if with one of the groups has moved towards sessioning steeps. It's fine for a bit, but I'll generally avoid if I know that's what the whole ride is geared towards.
With bikes and kit (as with most expensive purchases of anything), I tend to find something I like and feel I want THEN read reviews, trying to take them in objectively and seek personal views through online platforms too. I think maybe my Kona in '97 was swayed by Peaty, but I can't think that any of my other bike purchases have been massively influenced by the media - including my ebikes. Although Rob Rides walk around vid of the 2019 Kenevo did help with my final decision prior to walking into JE James to see it hands on
I get where he's coming from. I watched a few of his videos a while back, and the video in question. Sure the title is a little click-baity, but that's just the times we live in currently. I thought he seemed like a genuine bloke just trying to encourage ordinary people into mountain biking by showing that it's not all just Redbull Rampage type riding, you don't have to be a supreme athlete to ride mountain bikes, and that you don't have to buy an expensive bike to hjave fun. I've met people who, when I tell them I ride a mountain bike, start talking to me about "proper" mountain biking, despite having never ridden a mountain bike in their lives. They're the type of attitudes he's trying to combat I think, encourage people into riding who are interested but just see barriers in the way.
Personally I'd like to see (even more) middle-aged women out on bikes.
I've not seen it mentioned in this thread but I see many, many more women out cycling now that gravel bikes are a thing. All ages, groups, pairs solos and also a more even balance of sexes in mixed groups. Perhaps the drop bars signify a lower expectation of the need to be gnar/rad/whatever term you want to use. Maybe @stwhannah could get some feedback from the women's section of the forum and present them over here?
Never been a big technical rider - the odd trail centre (North Wales) and more XC stuff. I've not actually touched the Full Suspension for about a year - last time was bike packing on it. I commute on an old 90's MTB with mixed surfaces, so that takes alot of my time, then weekends, it's actually been the CX bike I bought two years ago. I just swap between the road wheels and the knobbly wheels as I see fit. It doesn't feel compromised on the road as it's a traditional race geometry, bit can be a bit sketchy off road, but that's to be expected. I've even bike packed on it with a bodged rack as the bike has no fittings. Mudguards are clip on too.
I tend to ride two bikes the most. The two vintage road bikes only come out when it's dry, but I've just grabbed the CX bike as it's 'first out'.
I’d argue that you’re being lied to about gravel biking. As far as I can see, it’s XC MTBing plus far more sections of road so you can have all the terror of sharing parts of the ride with with huge fast vehicles, with far too many of their drivers being incompetent, distracted or just hating bikes.
Sorry - who is it that is supposedly lying to me about mountain biking? They must be doing a very good job of it, because I hadn't noticed anyone talking to me about it - other than riding buddies (mid-ride or over a pint afterwards).
And, to be honest (like pretty much every other topic we talk crap about), by the end of each discussion we've argued so many different points of view (each) that no one can really remember what they supposedly stood for - but can agree the actual ride was fun.
I get that clickbaity titles work in the YouTube age, but they don't work on me after the first few.
"Disaster Strikes on Gnarly Trails" = someone has a light tip-over or someone's e-bike battery packs up earlier than expected and they had to put some effort in.
"It Snapped" = a new bike had a bolt come loose.
I vowed to stop watching anything with a clickbaity thumbnail banner after I'd watched a certain Enduro rider chase a creak all around his rear suspension (including getting the bike company involved) only to find out, in the end, that some of the linkage bolts were loose*.
🙄
*I was bored in any case.
- Have to sdmit the what is killing xxxxxx titles are quite annoying and a certain turn off.
I think his point is a very valid one. If your perspective of MTB was based on social media you would think all we did was drops, hucks n gaps. Conversely, anyone simply enjoying riding a bike in the hills always seems to be on a gravel bike, by a small tarn, with a tent.
So if you're rad, get a mountain bike. If you're looking for mindfullness, get a gravel bike.
But the vast majority of us (i suspect) do a little from column a and a little from column b. But a whole big chunk from the "not insta friendly" column c - bashing along up and down mountains, on 2- 4hr loops, made up of singletrack and bridlepaths with hopefully a few rocky or rooty downhill sections to keep us grinning.
bashing along up and down mountains, on 2- 4hr loops, made up of singletrack and bridlepaths with hopefully a few rocky or rooty downhill sections to keep us grinning.
Exactly that, well apart from hills not mountains. This is why XC isn't gravel. You could use a gravel bike, but it wouln't be as much fun on the twisty rocky descents.
I have a gravel bike, and it's brilliant for actual gravel (Salisbury plain, New Forest etc), but really rubbish for MTB terrain.
It is nice to see, quite a lot of you are doing similar riding.
The problem really lies in whether you want a mountainbike or a bike for the mountains.
The former is based in the sport of mountainbiking, usually for riding circuits with prepared surfaces and features, but is perfectly adequate as a bike for the mountain.
So what is a bike for the mountains? Ask any of the RSF community, the Rough Stuffers, and it boils down to any bike. The bike isn't about speed, it's about getting there.
For me that means light enough to shoulder over the odd scramble or unrideable climb, or throw across a deep stream. Fat enough tyres to avoid the risk of snakebite, knobbly enough for grip on loose surfaces, but not draggy like a mud tyre. Steering geometry that doesn't wobble at walking speed on climbs.
I like dropbars because to me they feel more secure with a loose grip on rough surfaces, kinder to wrists IMO, and they help by dropping your CoG on downhill bits. However saddles and bars are really a personal choice, what suits one etc...
This is my favourite bike for mountains, light, easy to carry, no gears or other complications (but I'm tempted to add a dropper post). 
But remember I said any bike?
This one has also seen its fair share of mountains simply because its fun, eg it's done sections of the HT550. Obviously it's the exact opposite of my specification for a bike for the mountains, but it has one virtue, absolute reliabilty, and that's probably the most important if you're going into places where you have little chance of rescue. Scary on steep downhills though 🙂
We can get all tied up in technicalities, but the real point is to have fun, so whatever bike is the most fun is the best.
(Racers may have different opinions 🙂 )
What vague worries me is that anyone thinks that it is worth wasting typing energy on the whole damn thing. What the devil am I wasting my time for? People talk about vibes and spirit. Pompous twaddle. Someone up thread moaned about roady attitudes. Tother way around to my thinking but there you are. Face it, any sport journalism that isn't actually telling you what a bit of kit it like is pure self indulgent garbage serving no real purpose.
This is my favourite bike for mountains, light, easy to carry, no gears or other complications (but I'm tempted to add a dropper post).
Looks really good and I bet it's not far off current gravel geometry, but I'd add bar tape before a dropper 😉
People talk about vibes and spirit. Pompous twaddle
I dunno. Our little group has a vibe - we all seem to be happier when we are all out riding bikes in the sunshine, having laughs and drinking beers. That's our vibe.
Maybe your scene is a bit more stoic and starved of the fun element?
Remember we were talking about gravel bike vs MTB marketing somewhere up this thread?
This image on Bikeradar made me laugh and facepalm at the same time:
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/antidote-pathseeker-gravel-bike
One of the german brands - YT I think - did a release video for their gravel bike that entirely consisted of the bike being ridden down gentle gradients on and off road with the rider in a full standing sprint constantly.
I suppose if your rides last about 5 minutes and go through an MC Escher painting it might have been an appropriate bike.
I don't think anyone is telling me fibs. Friday was shredding to the max on the huge Enduro rig at Dyfi and Sunday pootling along on the gravel bikes for a cafe and cake run. Too busy enjoying bikes to worry about reading silly articles.
This is my favourite bike for mountains, light, easy to carry, no gears or other complications (but I'm tempted to add a dropper post).
What were the last three mountains you cycled that up?
