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So I have a project I'm going to undertake to help my Sister-in-law.
Without going into too much detail, she suffered a severe crash induced stroke earlier in the year and is now recovering at what we all feel is a fantastic rate. However she's a determined young lady and is busting a gut to get back on the bike. When the accident happened she also had quite a nasty break to her right arm which has meant that rehabilitation with that arm has been hindered. She wants to complete ride London next year which is looking entirely possible, however the one issue is changing gear and braking with her right hand.
To this end I'm thinking that a di2 setup with a climber button on the left hand side of the bar might be just the ticket. Maybe even run 1x11 but as she has full use of her left arm, maybe the double can stay. The issue I have is with the braking. Currently she's running cable discs via (I think from memory) 10 speed tiagra levers. Ideally I'd like to have some sort of splitter that allows both front and rear brakes to be operated from one lever. Is this possible? Failing that, could I do something similar with a hydro set up? It does need to be a pretty solid set up as there's some steep descents around Leith and obviously we don't want another accident. Did consider a Hope V2 type configuration but from memory can't think how I'd set it up.
Any help would be appreciated. I've started keeping an eye out for second hand di2 stuff, but I'm at a bit of a loss on the brake front.
EDIT: Just to add, do I need the STI levers to run the climber buttons? Or can I just plug the buttons into the junction box?
Good to you for taking this on and I hope she makes a swift recovery. The di2 stuff is probably ideal for this sort of application, the brakes might be trickier but there must be some well tested solutions out there for para-athletes. I'm pretty sure there are also cable splitting solutions for tandems and the such like but imagine the tricky part is getting the braking force balanced between front and rear. You might be able to use half of a BMX Gyro to run two cables out of a single in, at least to test the theory.
*you might get more response with a more descriptive title though... It would be shame for the thread to be overlooked
Does it have to be road STIs? I know that Magura do/have done a 1-2 hydro splitter but that was on a MTB
Thanks Joemmo - hadn't thought of looking at the tandem solutions. I'll have a dig through. You're bang on about the title too, if a mod can change it to something a bit more...descriptive that'd be great!
Scotroutes - I suppose using Di2 set up as described it doesn't have to be road STI's. Will have a dig round for the Magura stuff, that might be just the ticket
I've seen this done more with flat bars than drop (in fact, first time was a bloody quick downhiller with one hand! Tom Smart i think it was?) Tommy Wilkinson also gets around the Tweed Valley ok and only able to use one arm. So it can definitely be done.
Which arm is her good/better one?
Great project.
Is it worth getting in touch with Hope?
This is obviously a brilliant thing to do, and would probably be very good PR for them to help with as a sort of skunkworks project...
Problem Solvers do a widget that allows 2 brakes to be operated by one lever...
http://www.ison-distribution.com/english/product.php?part=BSQBCD12
Hydro brakes with a splitter - so both brakes from one lever is the way I would go. Longer travel on the lever. sort out the split in power by having a big disc front and small rear
Did a bit of a search and found this:
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=287859
somebody trying to solve the same problem, hope it helps
Submarined - I've actually just dropped Hope a line to see if they've done anything similar so fingers crossed.
Legend - its her right arm that is the weaker of the two so everything needs to be set up for her left hand.
Much appreciated guys - I'll keep you updated on progress.
Good thinking on the different sized discs for front and rear TJ, I did wonder how to counter the moderation issue front to back.
This thread over on [url= http://forums.roadcyclinguk.com/showthread.php/129677-Road-bike-advice-for-a-one-armed-rider ]Road CC[/url] may well be of some use.
is it possible you might want a bigger disc at the back so the bias is towards locking up the rear before locking up the front? Just speculating as I'm sure this will not be the first time this problem has been solved 🙂
Biggest disc at the front as that is where most braking is. It will still lock the rear first as you won't get the 75% / 25% front bias you need for even braking as you don't get a front disc 3 times the size of the rear
Another option which she might want to consider is riding a fixed gear bike. I am not suggesting it instead of the solution you are looking for to using gears, but as something she might also like to try as well as part of her general rehabilitation and recovery of fitness and strength.
Obviously fixed eliminates the issue of gear changes, but it can also reduce the criticality of right hand strength for braking, i.e. use the left hand for the front brake and a combination of the weaker right hand and leg braking for the rear brake (and you generally do not descend as fast on a fixed, so there is less need to be able to apply maximum braking pressure).
Other options might be:
- old fashioned down tube levers, which can be operated by just one hand if needed, even to the extent of performing a double shift. Moreover, you can use more of the palm of the hand and wrist to apply
the force to move the levers.
- bar end shifters: either mounted on tri bars or in the end of the drop handlebar (where again the palm and wrist can apply most of the force needed to move the lever).
- Kelly's Take Off Mounts are a variation on the same theme.
Feels like it would b easier to do with the old [url= https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Hope-V-Twin-Remote-Brake-System_68942.htm?sku=256840&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKCAiApJnRBRBlEiwAPTgmxCX3lTEKXljMm1olTWjDeoNbVQ5hpgrooAcBhQGRM3v02_zf3RwYwxoClcEQAvD_BwE# ]hope cable/hydro road discs[/url] than a new shimano set up.
I wouldn't be wanting to upsize the rear disc tbh. As you brake harder, more weight is shifted to the front, making the rear more likely to lock up if equal pressures are applied. It's why some cars have bias valves connected to rear suspension arms to vary the bias as the car pitches forwards.
If anything, I'd have thought you want smaller on the rear.
Slightly leftfield, but could you do something with a BMX gyro?
Cable lever > Gyro, then instead of using the y piece type cables you get with gyros, run the cables separately, either straight to cable calipers, or to one of those cable > hydro converters?
I'd definitely be pushing for the largest discs you can get away with and most powerful (but still nicely modulated) pads you can, as one hand is going to have to apply double the braking force.
I certainly wouldn't be splitting a hydraulic line, as you will be massively increasing the lever travel.
Hydraulic discs would seem infinitely better than cable, for power reasons, but add an extra level of complexity.
There's a couple of paired hydraulic systems, the best is the Tektro Auriga Twin, I use it a lot on recumbent trikes.
tjagain - good point. I guess the tricky thing here is how you build in tolerance for not just the weight balance but the inconsistency you can get between front and rear due to pad wear, water, contamination while out on the ride etc - the kind of thing you naturally adjust for with the ability to control both brakes separately.
These might offer a cable operated alternative to di2 for left hand rear shifting..
https://www.gevenalle.com/
joe - properly set up brakes do not vary as pads wear.
joe - properly set up brakes do not vary as pads wear.
note I mentioned contamination, water & 'etc'. to cover the general topic of 'inconsistency'. In a case like this I'd imagine you'd want a system that was tolerant of inconsistencies that might occur over the course of a ride, like weather, possibly at the expense of out-right power. Like I said, pretty sure someone has worked this out already and am interested to see the solution.
Cable doubler works very well for disabled riders. If mechanical shifting on a drop bar, run a grip shift on the end of the bar (or a bar end shifter) if Di2 is cost prohibitive. It all works well, and a dummy lever for tandems for the right hand.
If you do get Di2 make sure its compatible with syncro shift. That'll run the entire 22 gear spread with two buttons, up and down.
And TBH, depending on how bad her right arm actually is. The remote buttons could easily be integrated into a right hand tandem rear hood to do the front shifting and use the left hand shifter to do the rear (all programmable through e-tube) and the braking with a splitter. The Di2 button loads are tiny relative to hauling on a standard cable shifter.
Or with the lower loads needed for hydro compared to cable operated, why not just switch front and rear hoses on a hydro Di2 shifter? Right for rear braking (and front shifting) which are likely to be less used and less load, and left for front braking and rear shifting?
Road hydro splitters are likely to be a) custom and b) eyewateringly expensive. Road cable splitters are a bit of a bodge and you need to be careful with them on a solo bike.
Only one armed rider i've ridden with had two complete STi units on his left hand bar......
Also consider getting a steering damper
Lots of good points and ideas above.
Seeing as no one else has mentioned it: coaster brake hub?
ghostly - as hydraulic splitter is a very easy simple and cheap part unless you want adjustable balance
Gents, all fantastic ideas and really appreciate the input.
Hadn't considered a gripshift which is a really good idea - would mean less expensive and as this isn't a permanent solution saving money isn't a bad idea. I'l investigate further into the braking - I'd rather spend the money there and have her safe than on the gearing which is neither here nor there in the scheme of things.
Those Pauls components duel pull levers look like a bit of kit (on the retrobike link) but I'm imaging they'll be a fortune.
The bike has drop bars currently but I'm wondering if a set of flat bars and bar ends would give her more control. Obviously the majority of her weight will be on the left arm so having wider bars may help matters rather than the 40's she's got on there currently. Would be cheaper too, a brake lever and a grip shift being the only real cost (I'm sure I've got some flat bars in the spares box).
Contact your local Cycling UK group. most localities have a disabled cycling group; and normally a techncial bod who hasbeen through some of these issues before.
Theres a group who regulary ride in Alice Holt forest & bearbonesbikepacking Stu does somethign similar in Wales. Big Bike Bash hosts Avon Tyrell have a few bikes but i think they are all bought in as opposed to modified.
Sooo, good news - Hope do 1 Tech 3 lever with 2 X2 calipers as a package with a splitter all ready to go. Just enquiring on price and then I'll get one ordered.
The more I think about it, the more brilliant the Gripshift idea is. I've got a spare narrow wide ring that will fit and it's already got a big cassette on it. Will raid the parts box for a flat bar and bar ends and we should be good to go!
Does anyone know if SRAM 11 speed MTB cable pull is the same as XT? I've got an XT clutch mech and wondered if that would work with a SRAM gripshift, or will I need to buy a SRAM rear mech?
Also consider getting a steering damper
Was thinking along those lines. Braking hard (emergency) with one hand on bars can be hard to control.
Random thought: try & speak with the guy from Fenwicks (mtb cleaners) who has a bike that has this adaptation, i can't remember his name, he does the trade stand at events etc.
Good shout on the steering damper - where would I look for such a thing? Or do I just pinch one off the Fireblade?
Will drop those mentioned above a line too, see if they have any advice.
Pinnacle arkose ltd had sprint DI2 shifter integrated into tektro hydraulic brake lever I think. Might be worth paying jameso to see what they did if he can help.
Friend who has limited arm use on one side uses a Hopey damper.... not cheap if I remember correctly
Hopey dampers are great, we used a few on one armed mountain bike builds along with the aforementioned Madura splitters but road set ups are definitely more of a challenge. Di2 would have been a great solution for a few of my old customers but their bikes and trikes predate di2 and budget would have certainly been and issue.
I'd definitely be thinking 1x11 and di2 if budget allows, the brake balance is possibly less of an issue than people are making out, we were able to run two hydros off a magura lever a few years back and really it just made the rider move fore and aft a bit more to balance the front and rear.
If she ONLY has the use of her left hand for shifting, I'd personally think about eTAP rather than Di2. The reason being that eTAP can run just the RD, and you could shift the FD using a bar end shifter. For braking, I'd probably suggest hydraulic splitting now, although our ancient Dawes Super Galaxy originally came with a twin Dia Compe lever.
And for eTAP, I'd not get the normal road shifters, I would use the TT system with a blip box, then you can mount the two blips on the LHS as buttons, one for up and one for down (both together shifts the FD). You can mount one inside the drop and one outside. You could even mount at the end of an aerobar (not strictly allowed for Ride London, but she could get a medical exemption). The blip box accepts TWO sets of blips, so she could still have shifter buttons on the RHS if wanted. It's a great system and doesn't tie you over to Di2/STI - you can still go with conventional drop brake levers such as TRP Spyres. The conventional shifters also accept two blips.
Hope that helps.
EDIT:
and for a fully manual solution: Gevenalle front shifter on RHS and a bar end shifter for RD will work fine (you can fit them on either side). I'd still go with TRP Spyres (which Gevenalle will modify), but they also do MTB cable pull systems as well. Drop them a line and I bet they'd be very helpful.
Again folks, massively touched by the responses on here. Much appreciated.
The shifter one is interesting - we need to work out how much effort shifting and holding the bars at once will take as it's the weight bearing arm. Maybe something like Etap as mentioned might help. I suppose the only way to know is to try it and see how she gets on. The brake has been ordered, as has the grip shift. My brother is bringing her bike down over Xmas where we'll fit it all and then go for a gentle pootle around Thetford forest. I am excite!
TiRed - appreciate that chap, I'll give them a try
Watch out for the diameter for gripshift. Bar ends are probably an easier solution. If its' 10 speed, can probably see you right. In fact if you were a little more local, I'd test you with eTAP TT - it's very easy to swap between bikes, as it's cable-free! And VERY resaleable!
The thought alone is appreciated! I actually have conventional Etap on one of my bikes, so for now I could always rob the mechs and just buy the blippers to see how we get on.
I've just spoken to my brother and they're both really excited about it. It's been an utterly horrible year for both of them so this will be a big boost to them. I'm more excited about this than any bike I've built for myself in ages!
Quick update
Ordered a Hope uno brake which is a special order part - basically a lever with splitter to run two calipers. Fitted today to SIL’s mtb, along with a new xt groupset and hope wheels.
She had a gentle spin round the garden on it and we’ve a trip planned to thetford tomorrow. To see how excited she was and knowing how far she’s come in 6 months was amazing, very emotional for all involved.
Thanks for all the suggestions and advice - at the moment we’ve just left the shifter on the right as we’re only doing gentle spins. I’ll fashion up a way of sorting that but for now it’s just amazing seeing how happy it’s made her.
Happy Christmas all
some motorcycle racers use a thumb brake on the clutch side (just like the up the block or chainring lever on a front shifter) including mick doohan who was multiple 500 champ, because his leg was mashed up and couldn't work the foot lever.
i would be tempted to look at making a front brake lever which worked like your up the chain ring lever for the thumb, rear brake in the usual place and somehow get buttons for the gears which could work in a similar manner to the indicators on a motorbike. you could probably take a lh bar shifter and rip out the internals to turn it into a brake lever and then run that into a hope cx thingy
good luck
Great work OP, good to hear they will be riding tomorrow, sounds like positive progress.
I wonder if the newer 1x underbar Reverb lever could be used as a thumb brake if connected to a brake caliper instead of a seatpost. Possibly it won't shift enough fluid but you never know.