[Closed] You! Stop riding your bike so quickly on the dedicated bike trail!

If you managed to stop without hitting anyone, then you weren't going too fast.

I'm with you, but this will start a war. Where's my cake and cuppa?

That said, I'm not sure I'd be flying round a blue, I put blues in the catagory of "for people who need space and are learning"

Dedicated mountain bike trail= cycle path to some people, we once met a very scared looking couple with fully laden drop barred tourers on the original(and quite fearsome)Adams family descent at Coed y Brenin.God knows how they'd got that far in before realising they were out of their depth.

The way I see it you can go as fast as you dare on the blue but if I catch a slower rider then I stop and give them enough time to finish that section. And if they move over for me then they get a very cheery thankyou.

coffeeking - Member

That said, I'm not sure I'd be flying round a blue, I put blues in the catagory of "for people who need space and are learning"

But then you'd be missing out on so much....

Different people and different expectations I suppose - it must seem quite intimidating for new riders to be poottling along, doing their best and learning something new every 10 seconds or so to be suddenly faced with an all-clad-up bloke rattling down the hill in his zone and in the attack position. It's a world away from sedate canal paths that they may be used to.

I certainly felt the same way when I ventured onto the WC DH run at Fort Bill and had nutters almost landing on my head. 🙂

I've never ridden on an official blue - any any of them any good? Always written them off and assumed it'd be a little dull, or I'd come around a corner and find someone plodding etc. Taking my sister and new man out in a few weeks, so I must learn some tolerance!

Due to the nature of folks I always assumed rode on them, I always assumed they should be ridden a little throttled back for this very reason.

Gt blue is great. I bet the woman's reaction was from adrenaline - no idea of how to deal with the situation. Numpties everywhere

Blue at Brecha is excellent fun to rag, no brakes styley. I was explaining to a dad and his kids how to pump extra speed out of the big rollers near the end and nearly overshot a corner 😳 I realise now that the rollers are really big doubles and Rowan is probably airborne for most of it. The little kids absolutely loved tearing down there on the their Halfords specials - big grins.

I always dismissed blue trails (and all trail centres tbh).But after doing whinnlatter {sp}blue (after the two red routes) I really enjoyed it.

The blue at GT as Druidh says is ace. A gem.

Yeah great trail and should be ridden flat out. If you have to stop for any reason on a dedicated MTB trail then get out of the way or warn approaching cyclists if someone's come a cropper.

As a mother I could quite easily see myself dithering about if one of my kids fell off - its the kind of situation where you are focused only on the injured child and not thinking about whether you were blocking the trail.
However, I would like to think I would apologise for getting in the way - not have a go at someone trying to enjoy a ride, especially when they can't see round blind corners!

'its the kind of situation where you are focused only on the injured child'

You need to ensure that you and the child are not put into further danger. The path should be cleared ASAP, and as mentioned above, if possible some kind of warning arranged for other riders.

Riders should be able to stop in time for trail obstructions.

It's easy to say she should have shepherded her kids out of the way, of course she should. She probably will next time. Probably wasn't thinking at the time. Of course everyone on here always does exactly the right thing in every situation they find themselves in 😉

They even reminded the Dyfi riders during the briefing to get out of the way if they had to walk a bit or fix a mechanical.

I've no time for people like that, male or female. Sounds like she bit off more than she (and/or the kids) could chew and she was looking for someone to take the blame for her own inadequacies.

You were going at a pace where you could stop in time, so what is the problem? I certainly wouldn't have placated her, in fact quite the opposite if she had been screaming at me.

Ladies Point of view

Nice chilled out ride
Lots of riders going hell for leather on what is OFFICIALLY deemed a FAMILY route (Blue is now nearly as popular as the red as a finish trail at GT)
Possibly spent the entire ride getting buzzed by other riders who hadnt given her and her family the slightest chance to enjoy the trail
Kids fallen off/mechanical so she is already having to deal with a situation
Unfortunate riders approach at 'moderate' (To who??) speed and get her fury. She was just about to clear up the carnage and get her family off the trail but again some riders havent even given her the chance to do so.
Considering its a family trail she may have been wondering how this can be.

Rider Point Of View
Travelled to GT
Wants to enjoy GT
Man made trail so users should at least be considerate of all thing biking
Has heard the blue is worth a blast
Comes across family biking incident and gets full force of angry mum.
Wonder what he did to deserve it.

IMO its not anyones fault. Its down to two things

1) The blue should not be so good. Sounds silly but to make such a popular piece of trails means its going to be ridden by riders who will be riding way faster than your average family. Regardless of ability to stop, i have done that trail and seen riders going at near dh pace so i can imagine a less experienced mother with her family could find it quite stressfull

2) Bikers are ignorant. Bikers do not consider other users interests and it does not suprise me that a) the woman didnt consider the OP may be one of the nicest bikers imaginable and b) the OP didnt consider the womans problems. Bikers ride for themselves and no one else imo

Official Line

Blue grade - intermediate trails
•Blue grade trails are suitable for: intermediate cyclists or mountain bikers with basic off-road riding skills.
•Bike required: basic mountain bike or mountain bike hybrid.
•Skills needed: basic off-road riding skills to cope with uneven surfaces and small obstacles.
•Trail and surface types: as for 'green', plus specially constructed singletrack trails. Trail surface might include small obstacles of root and rock.
•Gradients and technical trail features: most gradients are moderate but might include short steep sections. Includes small technical trail features (such as roots and rock).
•Suggested fitness level: a good standard of fitness can help.

Concise and beautifully put across TheLittlestHobo. A-

No really though, i completely agree.

Well the FC website says of Electric Blue "Never too steep though, this trail can be enjoyed by all levels of rider"
So maybe she was suckered into it and got well outside of her comfort zone. People can overreact when stressed - especially when kids are involved.

FWIW I've had similar encounters with fully grown adults sitting in the middle of red/black routes after they've taken a tumble and sustained a minor injury

nb - I take it that you stopped to check the fallen rider was OK with no injuries and offered any assistance you could? just as you would if you met a faller on a black route? 😀

Need to be tolerant folks.

We ride the blue and green at Brechfa with the kids on a regular basis. Both are great fun at whatever speed with the kids. Our son is confident and is starting to keep up with me. Daughter is capable, but prone to strops - especially with bermed corners - but hey it's blue / green and she is a relative newcomer to the sport.

We move to the sde of the trail when stopped and other riders are (almost) always appreciative. However, from a kid's perspective, I can see that fully kitted adults travelling at speed could be intimidating - especially if you're new to riding singletrack. If its a blue or green, you should anticipate slower / less confident riders.

The most obvious analogy to me is blue ski runs. Learners / intermediates want to use them to start moving around the mountain. They're still pretty unsteady and lack both confidence and technique. Added to that, to control speed they traverse across and back - putting them in direct path conflict with better skiers who choose to come down the fall line at maximum speed. In skiing the onus is on the better skiier to make allowances.

Watched this scenario several times this year - and had to conclude that the guys (mainly) using blues as full on race tracks looked to be complete dicks.... and yes, I've done it myself - blue / moderate red, no turns go for it. Just doesn't stack up if there is other traffic though.

Here's another perspective - last Sep we were climbing Oaken Clough on the way to Jacob's Ladder. Riders were streaming past us the other way on some "event" - not a race of course - when we found a fallen rider who'd hurt his shoulder. We climbed over the fence (having taken to the field to avoid the other riders) and tended to him while we waited for mountain rescue. One rubbernecking numpty managed to fall directly onto the injured rider (dislocated shoulder), though we managed to intercept most of his weight. We were very constrained by the close fences and unwilling to move him without knowing what was wrong
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In retrospect I should have:
a) positioned someone uphill to warn the riders
b) directed the passing riders into the field
had this been impossible I should have forced them to walk past

Of course, we were mostly concerned with Chris and hadn't imagined anyone would be so stupid

Actually I wouldn't clear the path asap - I think it would be wise to [b]block[/b] the path for a minute, until the injured party is very well clear at a safe and non-intimidating distance, and [i]then[/i] clear the path.

We've had this discussion before, obviously - comes back to the same thing, which is that it's supposed to be fun for everyone not a racetrack. Having said that the OP didn't crash into anyone, luckily, and the woman was a bit freaked and over-reacted, unfortunately.

The blue at GT is ace. Tony (Jedi) kept it for a treat at the end of my skills session.

It has 2 very distinct options all the way down though, small rideable drops and bigger get both wheels off the ground drops. Its either/or.

It is most definitely [b]designed[/b] for [b]all[/b] types of riders.

The big question there sfb, how the hell did he manage to fall off there?

The big question there sfb, how the hell did he manage to fall off there?

beats me! I imagine he must have lost concentration, or perhaps he got mixed up with another rider ?

"fully grown adults sitting in the middle of red/black routes after they've taken a tumble and sustained a minor injury"

I've done that at Penmachno - I was quite stunned though. Thought I'd broken some ribs and did break the helmet on the trail. Took me a few minutes to get myself together and shift my bod & bike off the trail.

At the weekend had a crash due to pinching my front tyre on the final part of Whytes Level at Afan. There is a big slabs variant on the left of the steppy main-line, so I parked my bike on top of that where approaching riders could see me and also not blocking the main line. One rider, yelled "thanks for making my decision for me, I hate that line". I can't decide if he was being sarcastic or not. It's not like I could stand off-trail to fix the flat - it's a 30 degree slope covered in debris.

Did you clear the bridge?

What happens at downhill races? I've seen videos of spectators literally dragging fallen racers off the track which isn't going to be very helpful if someone's smashed themselves up.

I think that bridge is going to see an accident at some point. I've heard of a few stories involving it already. I had my own scare when a skills group were gathered in the blind bit behind the bridge with two of them pushing up the trail. I jumped the bridge and nearly ****ed one of them. It could have been horrendous! Copious swearing was involved. I'd have thought a skills course leader would have known better.

"Won't someone please think of the children...." etc

I had a similar thing this weekend in the Peaks. Coming down a descent, some old guy shouted "This doesnt look like a cycle way"

errrrr its a bridleway mate. A Cheery "Thankyou" as we went past went down a treat 🙂

We werent going fast or silly, I always slow down going past walkers in case of flying rocks etc and not to scare anyone really.

Some riders are ****ers are fly past and dont give a ****, and again, sometimes you get walkers who also are ****ers. Its the minority in both IMO.

she was just panicked and worried about her kids. wouldn't worry about it if I were you, nor would I hold it against her. Certainly, if you were able to stop to talk to her then you had your speed well under control so you've nowt to worry about.

I know mountainbike trails, especially the made ones in trail centres, often tempt and egg us on to go faster and faster (how many times have I had the red mist descending from White's level?) but it's worth remembering that anyone could be on the trail around that corner still collecting themselves having fallen off. Beware of blind corners! Sometimes it's best to scrub a bit of speed running upto a blind corner, you never know what could be on the other side

[b]/edit[/b] and SFB; 10 years ago my wife's aunt fell off her bike (aged 68....) and broke her leg. two kids stopped to look and one of them passed out at the sight of the compound fracture and fell .... guess where. 4 breaks in the lower leg and a halo needed .... she missed our wedding but was able to see the funny side by the time we visited her in hospital. Bloody kids!

I always ride at the back of my kids, and at the likes of Glentress when doing a section just warn those in the queue behind to give us space, otherwise they'll be following us down at our pace - although I struggle now to keep up with the kids unless there are climbs involved 😉

And when one has fallen in the past have posted others rearward to stop/slow riders.

Also once when out by myself I came across an injured rider, so just put my bike upside in the trail as a warning.

Maybe the kid had just fallen off - and it is the 'family' trail

Broke my ankle at D2D a couple of years ago. Apparently was the only injury that warranted a ambulance that year, not sure if I should be proud of that, but I am.

Moving myself wasnt an option. This was just after a blind'ish corner too.

Resorted to shouting "rider down" whenever I saw lights or heard someone approaching.

Eventually someone dragged me off the course and moved my bike. Nearly 2hours after the accident medics found me, plonked on their quad bike and away we went. An hour later ambulance turned up and I was treated.

Didn't realise how close I was to having hypothermia either, having been told the next morning. Also morphine is fun...

Anyway point being... no-one ran over me, only two or three people shouting at me to move (when I quite obviously couldnt) and when someone says they will go tell a marshall... make sure they specify which one.

Apparently it took so long for the onsite medics to find me as every single marshall point on the course was told about me so they didnt have a clue where I was. Someone even told the guy in the timing tent by the start.

So should experienced bikers be using a piece of trail that quite evidently is going to have slow inexperienced riders on it? The chances are you will meet someone in the middle of the trail skipping along listening to Bros songs with a flute up his chuff.

Or should inexperienced riders dare ride a trail they know might be used by mega quick, biking gods who can clear bridges with one pedal stroke etc etc.

Or should a bike instructor be giving lessons and 'sessioning' trails whilst other trail users are riding the trails?

GiantJaunt - Member
What happens at downhill races? I've seen videos of spectators literally dragging fallen racers off the track which isn't going to be very helpful if someone's smashed themselves up.

You sure you weren’t watching Black Hawk Down?

They do have marshals for DH you know, generally speaking you’re never out of viewing range of a least one marshal, normally equipped with a radio (they should have flags apparently, but you seldom see them), generally if you are approaching an accident scene you will be waved down and normally get a “Rider Down” shout, most of the time if you’re held up on a race run and they’re organised the marshal will radio for a re-run… it doesn’t happen that often though, most DH stacks take the rider/bike off the course and safety kit being what it is these days, most people jump straight back on the bike determined to claw back time somehow…

Blue is not a family trail in my book. Green, sure.

Oooo think i may have been guilty there - she was at the side of the bridge but not on it.It is a bit of a blind spot and if you want to jump off the bridge you do need a bit of speed. The blue round there is banked and bermed especially for going fast.

Will be more mindfull on bank holidays 😯

The Blue is ace though 😈

I suppose the done thing would be to stop, and go back up and slow other riders down safely a couple of turns before the problem. I guess families aren't aware that they represent as much of a hazard as the faster riders, It's not like lessons on trail etiquette are essential (as with skiing), but it's up to more experienced people to make sure the situation is safe with everyone.

I like to stop in the holding area at the start of a section for a good couple of minutes to make sure the section is likely to be clear, however this isn't always possible on a Bank Holiday

If you want a good fast run at GT on a weekend you need to go early, you need to be setting off from the carpark circa 8am. After 10/11am they are starting to park on the road as the carparks are full and hence so are the trails.
If you are setting off later in the day you need to accept there will be more traffic on the trail and adjust your riding to suit.

(Mr MC posting)

ref adult casualties in the trail:

I crashed on the 10% on Le Pleney last summer, and laid stunned in the middle of the trail, as rider after rider (innocently) prejumped the entry and flew down, missing me by inches and no doubt cursing me for being in the trail.

MC and riding buddy kept shouting for me to get out of the trail. What I needed them to do was stop shouting at me and warn/slow/stop riders at the top of the section. It turned out I had snapped off the end of my tibia and I was barely conscious due to the pain. I didnt know that at the time, and neither did MC or riding buddy, both of whom did a sterling job once theyd realised it was serious and i wasnt moving. I think the point is shock and being winded will both stop an adult (or child) moving regardless of the eventual severity of the injury.

I agree with Littlest Hobo.

I think we all end up in our own wee world and are not as good as we imagine at understanding others situations. That said GT Blue is fantastic and I do zip down sections of it

Phew glad Mr MC wrote the last bit .. ready to start a domestic 😉
Other problem was I was so far at the bottom I couldn't get up the blinking hill fast enough! I can see both sides but woman shouldn't have shouted at you, been polite about it!

As previously mentioned hammer down it, see a beginner I'll give them space before I can nip past them safely without compromising their line as I'm the more experienced rider. There is nothing worse than someone breathing down your neck when you're a novice but you also have to learn to deal with a bit of pressure due to the sport we are all in.

TheLittlestHobo - Member

I think you're over analysing a bit and you're certainly giving mountain bikers a bad name. The incident with the woman and her children is unfortunate but I think that the other cyclists are entitled to ride the Blue at whatever speed they wish. Trails with the same colour grading vary greatly from place to place. The fact that the GT Blue has red options on it might be a clue to parents that this trail will be frequented by faster and more advanced riders. Hopefully she knows what to expect now and will plan her day out accordingly. I'm sure there will be some more gentile blue for them somewhere or maybe a forest track or something. Hope the child was ok btw.

Having had a big accident on a trail I was in no position to move me or my bike as I was drifting in and out of consciousness and even to this day (6 years later) I'm not sure where I was lying on the floor. Whilst it's easy to say that people should get out of the way it's not always possible and might take a few minutes to achive if it is.

Cant agree with that Giant

How am i giving bikers a bad name. All i stated was that bikers dont give a hoot about other bikers whilst out on the trail (In general). Over the years of being a member here and riding i have seen enough selfish behaviour from bikers to back this up. Granted i have also seen some rather touching moments but whilst the adrenulin is going and the riding is there to be had, bikers dont really give a toss. Or we would have a very quiet forum tbh 😉

As per your next comment
[i]The incident with the woman and her children is unfortunate but I think that the other cyclists are entitled to ride the Blue at whatever speed they wish[/i] I didnt state they werent entitled. I said it was maybe down to the fact the trail is SO GOOD that it is attracting more experienced riders who maybe arent such a good mix with families who are attracted to the fact its a blue route. I posted an explanation of Blue grade and tbh it doesnt say anything that would detract me from taking my family out on the trail.

Does it have red option? Are they the little choice sections on the climbs?

[i]Hopefully she knows what to expect now and will plan her day out. I'm sure there will be some more gentile blue for them somewhere or maybe a forest track or something [/i]
Errr, with that attitude then yes she does. Pack in cycling

druidh - Member
If you managed to stop without hitting anyone, then you weren't going too fast.

Skipped most of the thread, just read the OP.

My comment is thus:

At DH races, where everyone is getting down fairly tricky stuff, and indeed wanting race it, you would assume most have done a fair bit of riding and are experienced MTBers. This is probably true.

Despite this, there are always total muppets who do things like stop in the middle of the trail (without checking behind them), or stop on the trail and don't think to get off it - without even dealing with a crash (themselves or others).

So I can well believe an inexperienced MTBer on the blue route at GT would see nothing wrong with standing on the blind side of a jump in the middle of the trail. Some people just don't think.

EDIT: might not be clear here, but my POV is she was more in the wrong that you were. If someone's sat on a blind part of a trail and I crash into them, I'd be raging at them...

I wasn't realy too sure whether anyone was to blame here.. and then I read little hobo's post and thought well.. yeah.. good point.

Then I thought... hang on.. maybe that's a bit of a generalization..

But then I read some of the responses and attempted arguments to his post..

and yep.. the evidence would suggest that hobo's comments are indeed, spot on.

I don't care how exciting or fun the trail is.. it's a family trail... end of.

The fact that the GT Blue has red options on it might be a clue to parents that this trail will be frequented by faster and more advanced riders

After 14 years of riding I still don't know what the colours mean, or for that matter have the ability to correctly identify them, and a novice might well not know that the blue has red sections...

druidh - Member
If you managed to stop without hitting anyone, then you weren't going too fast.

exactly - those of you that are saying its a family trail and should be ridden slowly do you know it?

Its not labelled as a family trail and it is the main way back to the bottom of the hill carrying virtually all the traffic at that point. If you want to ride down the hill you ride that bit of trail

don't be ridiculous. The OP was not in the wrong and the woman who got stroppy was - but understandably as she would be full of adrenaline.

maybe I should retract a bit then..

I just assumed by some of the posts here that it was without question a family trail and so I was a bit shocked by some peoples attitudes..

now where's my pint of 'shut the f*ck up yunki.....'?

nae worries Yunki - you are not the only one.

I did a charity ride a couple of weeks ago which lead to my group riding amongst a group of 14-15yr olds who were nice lads but were young, dumb and full of -well you know.Every time they overtook us , they stopped about 300 yards further on right across the track. This must have happened about 7-8 times before we got to a big enough uphill for us to drop them altogether. You have just got to make allowances for the unfinished life forms![ and their mothers of course!}

You have just got to make allowances for the unfinished life forms

+1 that's all that I was trying to say summed up very succinctly..

I have to be ultra courteous to other trail users as a rule.. due to my penchant for some very nice cheeky stuff that I feel should be available for all to enjoy.. so maybe my view on the issue is a bit distorted..

[i]Its not labelled as a family trail and it is the main way back to the bottom of the hill carrying virtually all the traffic at that point. If you want to ride down the hill you ride that bit of trail[/i]

My understanding was that green & blue were family/beginner orientated routes. Red & Black for the more experienced riders. I have ridden Green & Blue at most of the stanes with either a child seat fitted or a tag along fitted.

Talking to trekster in the past and he has stated to me that stanes funding was going more 'towards family/beginner friendly' routes such as the blue at GT which is why the black etc hasnt had so much done to it over the last few years. From the 7 stanes site i posted earlier, it seems pretty clear that it isnt supposed to be anything approaching a full on blast downhill.

How is the blue the main way down? Have they got rid of the red finish with all the drops etc?

Just to point out i never said the OP was wrong. I said it was down to the trail attracting riders because it is so good. Bad design imo. That and riders will ride whatever they like. How many times have we seen it posted on here about riders riding unfinished trail that trailbuilders dont want ridden? Riders will ride good trail so get rid of the jumps etc and the riders will probably leave it alone

TheLittlestHobo

How is the blue the main way down? Have they got rid of the red finish with all the drops etc?

Have you ridden at GT? The section in question is the only single track route down from the buzzards nest to the Hub It splits into blue and red / black after that section.

Edit - its a great section with almost no blind sections - great for all abilities and built for all abilities

Yes many times. Although it has been a while so i am open to being put right.

Whenever i have ridden black or red we have come to a point where you can choose the red finish or blue. I admit to having done the blue section on a few occasions but have definately finished on the red section before as well.

[i]The section in question is the only single track route down from the buzzards nest to the Hub It splits into blue and red / black after that section[/i]

I am confused now. The section in question is the only section back down to the hub (The end) but AFTER that it splits into blue or red/black....eh?

There is the blue section (electric blue) from the buzzards down to the forestry road that has been there for years. Due to recent alterations it now has a bridge near the bottom of it where the incident happened.

after you cross the forestry road is the rest of the descent that splits halfway down now. into falla brae which is the bit you remember I guess and the Good Game

So if you are riding down from the Buzzards you ride over the bridge where the incident occurred. It carries a lot of traffic

Liftman - Member
If you want a good fast run at GT on a weekend you need to go early, you need to be setting off from the carpark circa 8am. After 10/11am they are starting to park on the road as the carparks are full and hence so are the trails.
If you are setting off later in the day you need to accept there will be more traffic on the trail and adjust your riding to suit.

eh?.. I dissagree!
I usually make a rule never to ride before midday (especially if it's at a trail centre). GT, like most trail centres becomes pretty quiet in the afternoon after all the silly shoes and lycra brigade that feel they need to get there mega early and be in the cafe at exactly lunchtime or their world will emplode have gone home.
GT is made up of mainly up or down sort trail sections so if you want a clean run on any descent there just wait a few minutes for a suitable gap at the start of the next descent. (many slower riders will actually ask you to jump infront) but if you do still catch someone, simply pull over and wait for another gap. getting past someone on a climb is simply a case of letting them know you're approaching and passing safely (it's pretty much all wide enough for passing)

Bit slow to repond, but the specific adult i was thinking of had been sitting in the middle of the trail long enough to take his helmet & gloves off and fish around in his backpack for a spare buff to clean his scratched knee.

Obviously if you were semi conscious or had bones sticking out I'd cut you some slack 😉