Yet another what hardtail thread...

There’s a nice Bfe max frame on the classifieds. Donor bike on cyclescheme and frame swap?

Sonder Signal?

You wont be dissapointed by the solaris.

I’d get the Solaris - geometry looks great, even modern steel frames tend to feel nicer than alloy ones (less buzz) and the Solaris is bound to be a good example of that. And although it’s more expensive it probably won’t be in the long-run.

(Also Cotic’s customer service is outstanding!)

I know someone who’s prob selling an Orange P7 frame (orange colour too!).

I had a scout

https://flic.kr/p/2nvhmhM

Great fun to ride, but even with big, low volume tyres it felt quite harsh after a strong of steel HTs. I sold it to a mate's lad with far younger knees and back 🙂

I've had a few of the previous Solaris's and liked them all. Still have a Mk3 longshot my daughter rides. Went for a BFEMax this time. Ran it at 140mm to start with and it's a super comfy trail bike. I imagine the Solaris would be a bit lighter. As said Cotic are great people to deal with.

Thanks all, I'm keen not to go to gnarly & long travel, as much as I might imagine needing a chunky HT, I feel that 90% of my riding I'd be overbiked? P7 was on the list but again, a bit too burly? Happy to be corrected though

My lad has a scout and he loves it. It used to be Alex's (see pic above) 🙂

Have a look at Pace, either the 529 or new 429. They are very well designed and finished + cost less than Cotic.

Chestrockwell- I have looked at the Pace options but can't see how they are cheaper- maybe frameset is but complete bikes seem pricey! Solaris has a build option at £2.2k which looks decent enough. Pace options are a little confusing to me

Couldn't tell you about full builds tbh, just going on the discussions in the past where the new 429 frame is significantly cheaper than the new Solaris which on paper seem very similar. I know they had some discounted frames/bikes recently too. Might be worth giving them a ring if you are interested?

I think k if you're after a fireroad/ path mile muncher then I'd look at 29erwith more of an xc bias that has 100mm travel personally. A slack headtube with monster tyres and short stays isnt going to be fun on long distance paths etc. Best to buy for whatever you're going to do most of. It'll still go round a trail centre or go somewhere rowdy and be absolutley fine, but it won't be as fast or confidence inspiring as a 'trail' bike. But then it doesn't sound like that's your main goal.

It's GOT to be steel, a way better hardtail ride than aluminium and absolutely noticeable, when you ride the two materials back to back it screams out at you. And I'd highly recommend a P7, belter of a bike, love mine

I'd buy a Solaris tomorrow. Cotic are just ace to deal with. When the Cane Creek shock on my FlareMax developed a low mileage fault, it was technically out of warranty, but they not only covered the cost of a rebuild at TF Tuned, but spent a good couple of hours with me checking the bearings and alignment of the rear end, installing the repaired shock and feeding me coffee. All that in the midst of a pre-Les Gets packing frenzy.

Great people, awesome bikes. And the latest Solaris sounds bang on for what you're after. 

It’s GOT to be steel, a way better hardtail ride than aluminium and absolutely noticeable, when you ride the two materials back to back it screams out at you.

I'd have tended to agree - my HT's have always been steel, but (without wanting to sound like a stuck record banging on about the bike I own) the Alu Ragleys seem to re-write the rule book. The Big Al is so comfy and compliant - comfier than my steel Shan

Well I've never rode a steel hardtail, but my new mmmbop feels slightly better than the old Marley it replaced. Still a buzzy stiff bike. Kinda wish I'd gone steel. If I was buying another hardtail with Ragley all but gone, those Pace frames look really nice.

I’ve always hankered after a Cotic

Do it, you won't regret a Cotic.

I've owned more than a few. If I had the budget for it a new Solaris would likely be the better option for me - I don't need the burliness of my BFe MAX. If you've got the budget and can justify it over buying/building up something from the reduced clearouts etc, go for it.

A few mentions of a P7 29 - I have had mine for about 5 years now. Its been superb and a has done the SDW a number of times, XC races, Enduro, Alps, Jura, Dolomites, Wales, Scotland - handled it all great. They are on the burlier side of steel frames, and a complete bike will be circa 30lb. I fancied treating myself to a new custom frame, which will be ready next month, so if you are after a cheap medium blue P7 29 (2018/19) frame only, then message me 🙂

Fairlight holt (mines great) or sour bikes pasta party?

I have to say I can be quite dense. Inspired by this thread I just looked back at the Cotic Solaris. Yet again I looked at the geometry and thought I’d love one but I think they’d be too long for me. Then suddenly I understood the geometry. The C4 is the same stack but less reach than the C5. I’d just need to show 25mm more post, unlikely to be an issue.

but I’ve always hankered after a Cotic

Do it.

https://flic.kr/p/2piGbqg

I had an aluminium and steel hardtail at the same time for a while.

I currently have a steel hardtail and ti fully ridgid bike.à

I never noticed much difference in the frame material.

Bird Zero29 - the frame is very light.

https://www.bird.bike/product/zero-29-shimano-12-speed/#configuration

I found mine best at 140mm and with 2.6 tyres.

you can also demo one and not far from swinley:

https://www.bird.bike/product/book-a-demo/

It’s GOT to be steel, a way better hardtail ride than aluminium and absolutely noticeable, when you ride the two materials back to back it screams out at you.

Ive owned several steel hardtails -still own 2- a 97 Lava dome- compliant, but a but flexy, a 2008 Unit a lot stiffer but still great fun, playing with sliding dropouts makes a difference at max length it feels comfier (but slower)

My old Muni-Mula felt very stiff compared to the steel bikes i had either side of it

My current main hardtail, a Honzo DL , despite being stiff and hard charging is still incredibly comfy (2.6tyres help!)  Im not sure whether its the funky curved seat stays too  , I have dropouts about 1/3rd off minimum but its got a great feel

I wouldnt dismiss aluminium out if hand

I like my Solaris Max. I'm generally a wheels on the ground sort of rider, and ride mainly on and off piste at the Forest of Dean. However I've taken the Cotic in the Brecons on occasions and I didn't feel underbiked. I have also just pottered about on it, and that was fun too!

I had a Solaris Max, now have the Bird Zero 29er,  build is better, parts are better.

So obviously go try both, we're all different.

Thanks all, sounds like I can't go wrong with the solaris, having looked at the bird website I can probably get similar spec for similar money with a zero 29er

I started a 'what hardtail' thread here early in the summer, and true to form, I'll recommend what I have- a Bird Forge:

-Steel

-140mm

-different enough from my other bikes (gravel and 140/150mm full suss)

XC capable with the right tyres, but great fun around a trail centre/smooth (small!)  jumps drops, etc

I'm also in Oxfordshire, so this is my preference for Chilterns rides, Swinners, or light Surrey type riding.

I'd go Sour Pasta Party

https://flic.kr/p/2prwNnz

Stanton Sherpa

or Sonder Signal Ti

I’d have tended to agree – my HT’s have always been steel, but (without wanting to sound like a stuck record banging on about the bike I own)

…

… after the Cotic and the Stanton I got a Titanium HT and that’s even better. You can’t get the frame I have but something similar must be out there.

Another vote for Stanton Sherpa. Sounds ideal for what you’re describing OP. Not sure if Stanton still do full builds though.

Johnny, I recognise that pub garden! Interesting you suggest the forge, I'll take a look. Thanks all for the suggestions, stanton don't do full builds by the look of it. Same with the pasta party? Can't be dealing with hassle of buying bits to build up a bike on the cyclescheme.

I purchased one of these at 50% off, great allrounder with the addition of a dropper.

https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Specialized-Chisel-HT-Base-29-Mountain-Bike-2023-Hardtail-MTB_245072.htm?sku=829858&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Bikes%20%3E%20Mountain%20bikes%20%3E%20Hardtail%20MTB&utm_content=Specialized&gad_source=4&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIw5GXx5HRgwMV4joGAB1IDgtAEAQYASABEgKX-PD_BwE

Nordest Britango. Is about £650 including import taxes. I've got one and it's a really nice bike to ride.

Just read the cyclescheme bit 🤦

Mason Raw. UK built as well.

Nordest looks like a v good option.

I bought a bfe max and built up using vitus do at bike, so 130mm fork, with the aim of it being a tough xc bike to complement my Bird Aeris.

Done three rides since got it. Feels quick. Long chainstays seem to help climbing.

No regrets. Not much in stock. I got the last Magenta frame in the country. Not sure when next batch coming over..

Still happy with my SolarisMax. It’s usually built up fairly light but currently wearing a longer fork and bigger tyres for toddler hauling. Nice to have something versatile!

Capable on the downs, happy place for a long haul. It loses out a bit to the older geometry bikes in raciness or vim and it took me a little to adjust but you gain more on the trail end than you lose at the race end.

There’s one in the classifieds isn’t there?

I don't regret buying this SolarisMax. Absolutely superb wherever it takes me, from steep gibberish in the Lakes to sedate bridleways or 43 mile epics around the Cairngorms whilst my Dad was having a tripple-bypass. I have the fork at 130mm and it's perfectly balanced, I found when it was at 140mm that it was a bit wandery up front when climbing.

Also, Sam at Cotic was bloody brilliant, answering my questions both before and after the sale. Also when I emailed them about a dodgy rear Magura brake, they sorted me out straight away.  

Another vote for a Stanton Sherpa, ticks all the boxes that you describe. I'm continually amazed at how capable it is on rough stuff while still feeling 'XC' enough on pedally tame stuff.

No full builds offered anymore but depending on cyclescheme you can still by parts I believe.

If I didn't buy the Sherpa, I'd have bought the Cotic though, especially when they did it in purple.

Another vote for Sonder Signal (Ti if you like). Mine does every(ish)thing. XC, bikepacking, enduro races, towing kiddos in the wagon round Elan Valley one day, Coaching day on Dyfi Bike Park Blacks the next, wagon back on the day after for coast tour and beach picnic.

Also comes in "clean"

It’s GOT to be steel, a way better hardtail ride than aluminium and absolutely noticeable, when you ride the two materials back to back it screams out at you. And I’d highly recommend a P7, belter of a bike, love mine

Material has very little to do with it. I have had steel hardtails that were absolutely noticeably far harsher than some alu hardtails, yet they were heavier and did not handle or turn in as well.

Loads of more prominent variables. Ride comfort essentially comes from the tyres, as the material used for these is obviously far more flexible than metal. The difference in harshness between two metals is negligible by comparison.