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That looks bloody lovely. I do like Shimano stuff..well, except their hubs.
if shimano need a crash test dummy to check it back peddles, pick me pick me
Not skipping ratios when backpedalling would be a huge bonus!
It's a nice, clean design. I guess that Shimano's 96mm BCD is now history? It won't be missed.
PJM1974
Have I missed something re the cassette? It would seem that it would be unavoidable for the three largest rings to be made from anything other than aluminium?
SRAM avoided it just fine.
You learn something new every day. I didn't know that...
XTR has traditionally been a mix of steel and Titanium cogs, i see no reason to believe that the M9100 cassette won't be the same mix. The small cogs steel and the larger ones Ti.
Hopefully that price will be ball park with the existing 11spd XTR at c£200. It is personal opinion but i think that it looks alot nicer than SRAM. Am wondering about Di2, no images, no mentions etc.
The biggest Sram cogs are aluminium, and a massive weak point. They are replaceable, but as I found out when mine wore, Sram originally meant to sell replacements, but then realised that'd lose sales on £300 cassettes so sacked the idea off (same as when they said "X0 9 speed is expensive, but if you break an arm you can buy a replacement", then realised that'd reduce mech sales of a flawed mech design so didn't sell them separately). Thank god for One Up.
Mrmo- have you got a source for the rumour about modifying the 11spd shifters? That'd be very, very interesting and could be the death knell for the XX1 on my Patrol.
What you can't tell from the pictures is whether they've switched to metric i.e. 1/2" to 10mm pitch chain
The chain is the same as 11 speed so I assume pitch and cog spacing has been maintained and the cassette is just 1 tooth wider.
Mrmo- have you got a source for the rumour about modifying the 11spd shifters? That’d be very, very interesting and could be the death knell for the XX1 on my Patrol.
Just a comment on a facebook post from someone claiming to have knowledge,
i would be very interested if it turns out to be true, but i am loath to strip my shifter to find out.
a few comments and images on here.
http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/rumor-new-xtr-12-speed-1052567-2.html
Marketing is so odd these days...
Surely Pinkbike have articles ready (and likely a physical groupset) to go when the embargo is lifted and they're pretending to speculate based on spy shots.
I did wonder if the release was meant to be earlier but the fire caused issues.
Is this Shimano's SpinalTap moment:
Shimano: The numbers all go to 51. Look, right across the board, 51, 51, 51 and...
Journo: Oh, I see. And most 12spd go up to 50?
Shimano: Exactly.
Journo: Does that mean it's better? Is it any better?
Shimano: Well, it's one better, isn't it? It's not 50. You see, most blokes, you know, will be spinning at 50. You're on 50 here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on 50 on your cassette. Where can you go from there? Where?
Journo: I don't know.
Shimano: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Journo: Put it up to 51.
Shimano: 51. Exactly. One better.
Journo: Why don't you just make 50 better and make the chain ring different and make that a little better?
Shimano: [pause] These go to 51.
I suspect they'll argue that it more evenly distributes chain and cog wear when used with even numbers on the front chain ring as it means there's more variation in when the cassette teeth have max torque through them or something.
I just hope the sprocket spacing is the same as SRAMs eagle cassettes..
as that XTR cassette is likely to cost a fair whack on release..
those 3 large sprockets are going to be aluminium..
that much TI with that much machining would be insanely expensive..? and the m9000 uses an aluminium 40T..
XTR 12 speed shifter and mech.. gx eagle cassette (or even a sunrace...) and chain.. yes please for me!
Apparently this briefly appeared on Shimano's website this morning:
[img]
Image 'Borrowed' from Pinkbike....
Looks like 3 alu, 1 ti and 8 steel sprockets. The largest 'silver' coloured one has a markedly different finish to the others. Hard to imagine the black ones being anything but alu, although I accept they are heavily machined, so maybe they're steel. Interesting choice either way.
I like the cranks.
rear mech looks interesting. Shimano dropping the slanted parallelogram and shadow format for 12 spd, like SRAM?
Marketing is so odd these days…
Just release something and people talk about it for a day, make it look like information is leaked or privileged and people will go on for a week. Why use a marketing team when the consumers will do it all for you.
avdave2
Just release something and people talk about it for a day, make it look like information is leaked or privileged and people will go on for a week. Why use a marketing team when the consumers will do it all for you.
Aye, people are such suckers to this stuff, it's pathetic
*hits F5 on thread again*
Looks like 3 alu, 1 ti and 8 steel sprockets. The largest ‘silver’ coloured one has a markedly different finish to the others. Hard to imagine the black ones being anything but alu, although I accept they are heavily machined, so maybe they’re steel. Interesting choice either way.
The link on gravelcyclist suggests otherwise;
5 Ti, 4 steel and 3 Aluminium?
I suspect they’ll argue that it more evenly distributes chain and cog wear when used with even numbers on the front chain ring as it means there’s more variation in when the cassette teeth have max torque through them or something
The largest 3 all have a number of teeth divisible by 3. I suspect it'll be something to do with ramping. Of course, they could have stuck at 48..... 😉
Titanium? That cassette isn't gonna be cheap then!!
Will wait a couple of years for the SLX version to come out.
Titanium? That cassette isn’t gonna be cheap then!!
It won't be cheap, but the current XTR cassette is far more reasonably priced than Sram, and always has been. I would hope the price is similar.
Anyone know what wide flange means on the 11spd cassette??
It won’t be cheap, but the current XTR cassette is far more reasonably priced than Sram, and always has been. I would hope the price is similar.
Perhaps we could compare them when they release an equivalent one
Probably that there aren’t loose spacers between individual sprockets but slightly wider based on the sprockets.
Should be slightly less fiddly to assemble & will help avoid damage to light alu freehub bodies.
That fiddly asse6mbky and freehub damage is a problem XD solves.
Funny, but I put a 45T wolf tooth extender on a XT 11sp 11-40 cassette. It has worked perfectly, especially having the 5 tooth gap between 45 and 40. I was put off by the big jump on the 11-46 cassette of 46 to 37....this works out well. It will be interesting to see what the new XTR looks like
Mrmo wrote,
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
It won’t be cheap, but the current XTR cassette is far more reasonably priced than Sram, and always has been. I would hope the price is similar.
Eh, there's not really any direct comparisons to make here because the XTR 1x cassette is only 11-40, whereas the equivalent 11 speed SRAMs are 10-42.
But broadly speaking... XTR 11-40 11 speed weighs 330g inc lockring and costs £125. SRAM 1175 gives you a wider range, weighs 325g, and costs £145. (actual prices not RRPs). Then knock off 20g or so for an average difference between the freehub designs.
Or alternatively, GX cassette gives you the same 10-42 range, weighs a bit more at 395g (though again knock off 20g or so for the freehub), and costs £80.
So sure, XTR's way cheaper than the SRAM top end but that's mostly because XTR competes more with SRAM's previous-model midrange. Shimano just don't have anything that competes with Eagle at this point, nor with the top end of 11 speed
</div>
“though again knock off 20g or so for the freehub”
Not always the case. Chris King XD driver is 27g heavier than std free hub.
My wife runs GX Eagle & I really like it but I’m happy with Shimano on mine.
I am interested to see if I’ll be able to update my Di2 firmware to run 12 speed if the spacing is indeed the same.
Pics no weights and prices though
Ohhhh it's a "more speeds" pg990 cassette, i wonder if it still comes in red.
11 speed, 11-50, 311g. 11-13-15-17-20-24-28-32-36-42-50
https://garbaruk.com/11-speed.html
More than XTR, less than SRAM, fitted a new jockey cage that came with the cassette and it's been great. Unless you're desperate for 12 speed I don;t think the jumps in the bigger cogs are that significant as you tend to only use them on technical climbs where you're moving at a snails pace anyway.
Also, when will Shimano do a fatbike crankset?
I'd rather they pushed some more cash into gearbox R&D.
also, the freehub looks interesting - same as the old one but foreshortened?
In the images, what’s that shifter looking thing to the left of the brake lever? Only one paddle?
note no pics of calipers? Possible 2 or 4 piston? Race vs trail?
i do like the look of the 1x crank/ring...
2 Paddles on it, just one is the thin thing in profile
And at what point does this get so that you'd be betterer off with 11-32/4 and a double/triple......
pretty soon i would expect
From I can see, no way is that a shifter. It has a slot, guide for cable going into the paddle, that's a dropper post lever, can't see it being anything else! new I-Spec EV mount as well apparently...
This one?
No the picture above it.
Im looking forward to this being launched. It might make and upgrade for the hardtail to the soon to be discounted 'old' XTR. Ive noticed it is starting to be discounted already 🙂
ah makes more sense there, I guess you need all XTR if your going for it 😉 Wonder which premium dropper it controls 😉
Good spot! Integrated dropper lever for use with cable operated droppers. Does that suggest a Shimano dropper, or just a nice lever to use with other people's droppers?
I notice those images have been taken down and a note saying that Shimano have an embargo until 16:00hrs.
Good spot! Integrated dropper lever for use with cable operated droppers. Does that suggest a Shimano dropper, or just a nice lever to use with other people’s droppers?
Shimano already have their own dropper post:
https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/review-pro-koryak-dropper-post/
Calipers have 4pots
Shimano already have their own dropper post:
Yep so which XTR level post will the remote work with 😉
Most of them I expect, much like Wolftooth, Bike yoke etc. I expect if Shimano ever make their own dropper (rather than a rebranded Trans-X). It'll be badged as Shimano rather than Pro.
From I can see, no way is that a shifter. It has a slot, guide for cable going into the paddle, that’s a dropper post lever, can’t see it being anything else! new I-Spec EV mount as well apparently…
Could it be a Di2 shifter?
Interesting driveside flange.
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From I can see, no way is that a shifter. It has a slot, guide for cable going into the paddle, that’s a dropper post lever, can’t see it being anything else! new I-Spec EV mount as well apparently…
</div>
Could it be a Di2 shifter?
If it was why would it have a barrel adjuster?
So the new freehub body... To me that doesn't appear to have a thread cut into it. Does the cassette bayonet on and then the lockring pulls it all tight up against the spider?
I wouldbe disappointed by that, but the new cassette is aluminium, so I don't care really.
I hope it's compatile with Eagle cassettes though - that SRAM Cassette/Freehub/Chain with Shimano Mech & Shifter is what I'd hope to end up running.
Disappointed to see a "Do Not Ride" notice on the cassette, would have hoped it was designed for that sort of thing
That's a nice looking rear hub..
Cranks look nice, shifter & mech look nice.
Nothing really that would make me consider swapping from my current XTR cranked Eagle setup though.
Another I-spec standard, 2 more freehub standards and a new chainring mounting standard.
I really don't like Sram, but this is getting stupid.
Disappointed to see a “Do Not Ride” notice on the cassette, would have hoped it was designed for that sort of thing
In shimano's defence, if you could read that once it's on the bike your cassette would be on inside out so it's probably good advice.
It all looks lovely, but I’m more of an SLX man myself, so I look forward to a slightly more plastic version of it all in 2/3 years.
The dropper remote looks great, but I’m not going to be buying a new, very expensive pair of brakes to run it on my Pro dropper – nor am I sure that the sort of peeps who buy XTR stuff are going to want a Koryak dropper, maybe there will finally be a proper Shimano post soon?
Also, does anyone actually run Shimano wheels? I’ve never seen any in the wild, ever.
A bit of an anti climax. Shimano finally get to 12 speed but with yet another new freehub design that is only available on their own hubs. Who, if anyone actually uses shimano hubs? I do like the look of the 4 pot brake though
is only available on their own hub
And DT swiss’...
And DT swiss’…
And retro-fittable to current DT hubs
And retro fittable to existing dt Swiss hubs.
i like the look of it myself. Be interesting to hear prices weights etc
Be interesting to hear prices weights etc.
It's xtr, if you have to ask about prices you can't afford it! 😉
Also, does anyone actually run Shimano wheels? I’ve never seen any in the wild, ever.
I do... XT M8000. Vast improvement over Superstar Ultra hubs, where rear axle was snapping 4 times a year!
I’d rather they pushed some more cash into gearbox R&D.
My 10 year old Rohloff has had an annual oil change, currently on 3rd rear sprocket, 3rd chain and second chain ring. I don't think Shimano or Sram are ever going to want to further develop something that needs so little spent on it once you've made the initial outlay.
Like the look of the short cage rear meach and 12pd 10-45.
Would be happy with the 11sp version but don't like the idea of needing a specific hub standard.... and you'd need new shifters etc. anyhow.
Await the XT version next year hoping for more steel in the top rings a la GX. Maybe a GX cassette, XT 12sp mech & shifter will be a good option.
Looking forward to the aftermarket ring options for that crank. Ovals and spiders for 30-42 gravel bike combos.
Who, if anyone actually uses shimano hubs?
I do where I can because I prefer quality cup n cones to bearings. Good that there's options out there for us all.
does 11 sp and 12 sp
Most interesting thing for me was that dropper lever.
I like the dropper lever. Bit cart-before-horse though since Shimano's dropper remains a totally token effort for OEMs.