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Today, I am Mr. Angry of Cardiff.
Run, or ran a pair of XT M785 brakes, I cheered for them when others moaned about irregular bite points, we suffered from it a bit, but we got through it by following the Shimano bleed procedure to the letter and using only Shimano oil. I treated them with love and respect, bought them flowers on their birthday, never cheated on them with that slag from Forumla - in short, I was the devoted brake owner.
Then they let me down. A few weeks ago after changing the pads the rear got very stiff, that feeling was lost and they became belligerent - I assumed in my haste to fit them I hadn't centred the calliper properly, but I lived with it for a ride or two - then the front started giving me hassle - I'd removed them to service the forks and again assumed I needed another go at centring them - then came the shock - they were borked.
It seems that whilst they were working - okay - I'd in fact grown to live with what were in hindsight failing brakes, the seals had gone in the lever and pushing the pistons back to get new pads in and then pumping them up again had been the final straw - pair of useless, 18 month old brakes.
Never fear - Shimano say this sort of thing shouldn't happen for another 6 months, send them back to CRC - they'll see you right, okay not great, I felt lucky they hadn't locked on when I was riding them - like they did in the workshop - last time out I was doing about 30mph down Launchpad at FOD, that would have hurt, but I was glad it would be sorted out.
Sent them back to CRC, they took 5 days to look at them (we disagree on the definition of the word "received" but ho-hum), only for them to contact me today - Shimano would like to inspect them, no justification, just they do - and it might be another 3 weeks before they agree 1) they're broken 2) I haven't caused it somehow.
I have 1 bike, 1 pair of brakes (I gave my spares to a friend just getting into riding) I'm not brave / good enough to ride brake-less and another 3 weeks, just as the weather is perking up? Nice.
I have borrowed a pair sort-term from a mate, I'm not sure if he needs them, but I didn't say "I need them for a month!"
Vented.
Its a pain , but look at it this way, the brakes are broken so you need new brakes. So buy a new pair while you wait for shimano to come back, if shimano replace under warranty then sell the replacement warrantied brakes to offset the cost of the new brakes, if shimano wont cover under warranty then you're no worse off, as you were going to have to buy new brakes anyway.
Its what I do with reverbs when they fail after 18 months.
same happend with me, although after 3 weeks 'inspecting' them, got a refund.
Problem is, i have about 4 pairs of shimano brakes, which have now nearly all failed. within a year of purchase, and so have been replaced by CRC. I never used to have problems with Shimano brakes untilm about 2 years back, then they all started doing the same thing.
SLX x2
ZEE x1 (but another seem on the blink now)
XT x1
all went the same way, leaking from caliper seals, and causing fade/howling brakes.
I can give you some older XT brakes should still be serviceable. Paypal a couple of £ for postage and I'll get them to you. Theyre the kind with the hole at one end of the brake pad and a hook on the other end. No idea state of pads. Been on the shelf for a year ...
I'm at BPW next Friday !
This is pretty standard time lines with Warrenty stuff - get some Clark brakes for £40 whilst you wait?
in fact, the cheapo Deore brakes i have on my commuter are the only ones that have NOT failed. So maybe get some of those as replacements/stop-gaps until the warrantee arrives.
After 18 months of use I'd expect the manufacturer to want to see them. I appreciate it's a PITA, but it's the drawback of using online retailers. To be honest, I'd imagine a shop would have to do the same. A shop [b][i]may[/i][/b] have had a set they could lend you while it was sorted out though, but they wouldn't be CRC prices.
You pays your money and you takes your choice.
All I'm really getting from this is that you don't have enough bikes.
HTH
🙂
Perhaps if you wanted a faster response time you should have used your reputable LBS to purchase the brakes.
I need to get on with trying to bleed my XT 8000s to send them back, ideally for a refund.
But in the above I'm not really sure that I would expect CRC to do an instant refund. Seems fair enough to send back to Shimano who, incidentally, were very good with my gammy XTR lever.
ehrob - MemberPerhaps if you wanted a faster response time you should have used your reputable LBS to purchase the brakes.
In my experience it would have taken longer, IF they agreed to consider a warranty claim in the first place. I have a good relationship with my LBS, first name terms and all that, they're reputation for warranty issues isn't great though.
I'd be tempted to buy a pair off e-Bay while you wait.
I got a set of M785's + 2 rotors + a Hope AM stem for a £100 buy-it-now.
After bleeding and fitting (and getting lots of black oil out) they work great.. though I suspect the rear caliper on my XC bike is going the way you described after 18 months...
I took a set of Avid DB5's off my Whyte T-130 and these were replaced by the used XT's... I'd say they are better brakes but I service 3 sets of brakes and all are SLX/XT so it makes sense to me from a bleed kit/pads and spares POV...
If you fancy a change the Avid's are for sale when I get round to it with everything you need including spare olives and such and matchmaker (no rotors or mounts but you have those and no bleed kit as I figured I'd change before I needed one...though they will need a bleed now)
Actually, thinking about it after reading the thread I'm wondering on the wisdom of selling them
Gotama - MemberI need to get on with trying to bleed my XT 8000s to send them back, ideally for a refund.
But in the above I'm not really sure that I would expect CRC to do an instant refund. Seems fair enough to send back to Shimano who, incidentally, were very good with my gammy XTR lever.
I didn't want a refund, I was happy with 2 replacement levers, but they wanted the whole lot back.
I guess my issue is one of expectation management.
I never expected anything, I assumed they broke, that was it - they're were over a year old, move on, don't buy Shimano again, or for a while anyway - which annoyed me thinking about my stock-pile of pads set aside for The Alps.
But no, it seems it's 2 years, a fairly common fault - odd they both went at roughly the same time but also not that odd given they're identical and treated the same way.
Spoke with CRC - who agreed it was more than likely a warranty issue so I was fairly happy and said, only in more words "send them back, we'll review them within 24 hours of receiving them* and let you know.
*receiving in this case is more like a Victorian Lady receiving guests in the parlour, she 'receives' them when the butler shows them in - the time they spent waiting doesn't count - in CRC terms the 5 day backlog to look at them isn't considered 'received'.
So my original expectations were very low - then I was told it would be a 24 hour turnaround, which became 5 days, and now more likely 4 weeks.
In regards to what I'd expect from CRC / Shimano - well either Shimano trust CRC them, there's no need for the longer, second inspection, or they don't and I should have been asked to send them to Shimano or the distributor.
In contrast a client of ours complained about a failed monitor on Monday, they had a replacement on Monday - no fuss, no 4 weeks of sucking air through our teeth and considering whether we should replace it or just palm it off as "one of those things". It was Sorry, here's another, we'll sort out the paperwork with the distributor later.
Im often drawn to look at getting a new set of XTs to replace my M775 and then I see threads like this!
Looks like mine will be with me for a while yet.....
same thign happened to me last year when my front zee and rear slx started to play up. sent them back to CRC who said the same thing that shimano wanted to inspect them first. i had to have a mini rant as i needed them for an uplift day at bpw and wanted them back in to me for that.
they said they would chase it up as soon as they can but in the meantime suggested that i could buy a new pair of brakes and if the faulty ones needed replacing then they would refund me the cost of the old brakes later
i declined to do this as i didnt want to spend on another new set of brakes when i still had 6 months warranty left
it took just over 2 weeks before they sent me new replacements but they told me the warranty on the new brakes would only be for the remainder of the original warranty. they said if anything happened after that they would look at them and sort something out which didnt fill me with confidence so i sold them and bought a brand new pair of zees
but they told me the warranty on the new brakes would only be for the remainder of the original warranty
To be fair, that's how warranties work.
To be fair, that's how warranties work.
i'd accept it if the original brakes had been repaired and sent back...that they only had 6 months warranty left but with a brand new set being sent as a replacement?
this would have meant that after 6 months the brand new brakes would have no warranty on them...not good from a customer point of view...plus its a bit of a risk putting yourself at the mercy of CRC/Shimano's goodwill should anything go wrong after the original warranty expires
it would be much easier to have requested a full refund and then bought a new pair which would have a full 2 year warranty.
just doesnt seem logical to me
I guess my issue is one of expectation management.
Yep I had an issue with their now sister company which really was about expectation ...
I ordered a M8000 cassette (which was marginally cheaper than elsewhere) but it arrived broken with 2 teeth missing and loose (no box and the plastic thing broken)... and the box sealed so it had been packed that way
Expectation 1: Product is dispatched intact...
I tried to find a telephone number .. only to find a "we don't have a telephone number"
Expectation 2: Your mail order... wouldn't having a phone been normal.?
But found a webchat and a nice bloke assured me it would all be sorted out quickly but I needed to do a returns.
So I go to do the returns .. and follow the instructions
The choices are very specific... so if its faulty you select faulty then that takes you into warranty returns
(Along with the Victorian lady receiving and up to 30 days after)
Expectation 3: If they send me a damaged item I should at least get an equal service to someone who decided they didn't like the colour....
So I go back... other options was it damaged in the post
Well it wasn't - or the broken off parts would have been in the box...
(Though hard to see how a packet of Harbo's could do that damage)
So I'm back on warranty return and a official email telling me I will get my money back possibly after 30 days IF AND ONLY IF the suppliers deem it a manufacturing fault.
We of course they won't as its obviously been broken in their warehouse
So I end up lying or stretching the truth to just return it under distance selling and "didn't meet expectations". (Which is mostly true, I'd expected a 11-42 had 42 Teeth on the big ring not 40 and two missing stumps)
I get another email saying they will email me as soon as it's received...
A few weeks later no email and their carrier indicates it was delivered 2 weeks prior....
Expectation 4: If they tell me they will email me when received they will.
So I email and ask if they can confirm it was received and I get a reply back telling me anything BUT if they received it.
Expectation 5:
Asking if they received it yet is a simple Yes/No question
Finally, exactly 30 days after the receipt they refunded my money.
In the meantime I'd bought a replacement from Evans (about £2 more) as I literally had no bike without pulling the brake off and fitting old levers and shifter .. not just replacing old cassette...
i'd accept it if the original brakes had been repaired and sent back...that they only had 6 months warranty left but with a brand new set being sent as a replacement?
this would have meant that after 6 months the brand new brakes would have no warranty on them...not good from a customer point of view
It demonstrates an astounding lack of faith in their own products...
The warranty is from date of purchase. You don't purchase the replacements.
That's how warranties work. To say this implies a lack of confidence in product is utter nonsense.
in fact, the cheapo Deore brakes i have on my commuter are the only ones that have NOT failed. So maybe get some of those
Exactly what I've just done.
Expectation 3: If they send me a damaged item I should at least get an equal service to someone who decided they didn't like the colour....
I had this with a pair of road shoes from CRC - they were defective out of the box (poor stitching with areas missed) but because I declared that as the reason for return it went via their warranty claim channel and they suggested it had to be seen by the manufacturer. I politely pointed out I wasn't making a warranty claim as they hadn't failed during use, and as you say I could have returned them "just because" with no reason given. I got a refund, but if I buy anything from them again that is defective I'll just return it as "unwanted".
That's how warranties work. To say this implies a lack of confidence in product is utter nonsense.
If they had any confidence why not just extend the warranty ?
You can always get a bad one of most things... but 2 years on a set of brake levers is piss poor... and the OP only got 18 months.
If they are supplying a new lever then why would it fail before 2 years [b]unless this really is a design fault[/b]?
Sending a new one and restarting the warranty say's to me... sorry you got a bad one that slipped through our Quality control... we fully expect our product to last 2 years...
Sending a new one with 2 months (given he has to wait over a month for them to check) tells me they have no confidence the product will last 2 years or they have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
The answer to that being because they don't have to...
[quote=crashtest]I had this with a pair of road shoes from CRC - they were defective out of the box (poor stitching with areas missed) but because I declared that as the reason for return it went via their warranty claim channel and they suggested it had to be seen by the manufacturer. I politely pointed out I wasn't making a warranty claim as they hadn't failed during use, and as you say I could have returned them "just because" with no reason given. I got a refund, but if I buy anything from them again that is defective I'll just return it as "unwanted".
Yep.... it's a sneaky trick as they essentially get you to accept new T's & C's that essentially mean you just opted out of distance selling regs.
In the case of Wiggle (and I presume now they are both part of the same company CRC) opting out mean't they literally had no requirement to even return your damaged product unless you pay postage if it was not "deemed a manufacturing fault"
With your case it was pretty obviously a manufacturing fault... hard to claim the stitches somehow unpicked and then you sewed them back yourself...
With mine it most obviously wasn't a manufacturing fault ...you could see on the photo's I sent them the teeth were broken off
They told me to pretend it was damaged in the post as well... when it obviously wasn't presumably so they can claim insurance...
I sympathise oh the op but as others have stated, replacement parts having a warranty for the remainder of the original warranty period is perfectly acceptable in my opinion. Doesn't mean they have no faith in the product.
I have a Kia with a seven year warranty, if something breaks in that time I wouldn't expect another seven years on that part!