anyone heard rumours on the trickle down to XT on the 12 speed, planning to get some new wheels, but is it worth holding off for a few months, likely summer 2019 or early next year?
yes, i appreciate the rival is already avaiable for £300 on CRC ;0)
Nothing yet, but given the debacle with XTR I expect them to show it off later this year with availability to follow some time in 2020. FWIW get GX Eagle, it's damn good and Shimano's track record since they left 10-speed behind has not been brilliant. They f***** their brakes up at the same time and the 11-speed SLX/XT/XTR setups I've tried have been nowhere near as good as their 10-speed equivalents. Happily been running X01 Eagle for two and half years and also running GX Eagle on the hardtail and they're both spot on.
AFAIK the complete XTR Groupset isn't fully out yet so that will delay any XT release even further.
AFAIK the complete XTR Groupset isn’t fully out yet so that will delay any XT release even further.
I think that Shimano has fairly fixed 4 year product cycles. M8000 XT was launched mid-April 2015 so you could expect a launch around April 2019.
Not sure if the M9100 XTR delays will play into this timing. My feeling is that, since Shimano is losing MTB market share to SRAM at an alarming pace, they will be trying to get 12 speed XT to market ASAP.
Typically with an April launch (with the exception of the M9100 XTR) components start becoming available in June/ July. Often though there is one component that is later than others which is a pain if you really want the whole groupset.
thanks for the info guys, it'll definately be April19 if i get a new wheelset beforehand, or S/S 2020 if i dont
i run X1/GX 11 speed sram its decent and also xtr/xt/sunrace mix on shimano.
I'm more than happy on both,
the only thing putting me off sram GX eagle is 2 mates have shattered the derailleurs on heather whilst off piste on the pennines,
oh and that 30t chainring con..
Gx eagle 12speed cassette +xtr shifter and mech is a good option. I did it after my gx mech did the self dismantling trick.
How is the shifting with a mix of eagle and XTR?
Shifter/mech work fine, but you cannot mix the chain / cassette in my experience. You need to be SRAM or Shimano for that pair (due to different chain widths), and you can't run SRAM eagle ring up front on XTR chain, Ive not tried the other way though (due to lack of XTR cranks).
so you could expect a launch around April 2019.
not a snowballs chance in hell of that happening
Shifting is spot on using xtr mech and eagle cassette and chain.
I think that Shimano has fairly fixed 4 year product cycles. M8000 XT was launched mid-April 2015 so you could expect a launch around April 2019.
So I (incorrectly) predicted an April launch of the 12 speed XT M8100 (above), XTR 12 speed was launched in May so we may still see XT 12 speed released in the dying days of this month.
What are peoples predictions/ wishes? (No embargo spoilers, it would be a shame to have this thread removed.)
Predictions:
- Splined chainring interface with the cranks (like XTR M9100)
- Microspline freehub (so 10 tooth smallest sprocket on the cassette)
- Revised brake lever clamp (like XTR M9100) where the clamp is much further inboard
Wishes:
- 12 speed cassette that is compatible with existing Shimano freehubs (ie not Microspline). Obviously this would have an 11t smallest sprocket.
there are images of M7100 floating around, i have seen product tables for m8100 and m7100. timescale? I would say launch imminent, as for shipping F*** knows!
Launch may be tomorrow, saw on another sites social media that they were in Japan at Shimano with a blurred out MTB in the background, said all would revealed on the 30th May.
Can't remember if 11-speed SLX/XT were launched at the same time, but they seemed to be a little more on it with XT last time round, it was launched in April and had it on my bike by the end of June if I remember correctly. Lord knows what availability will be like this time round though given the whole XTR debacle!
ive just seen the pics of the slx 12 speed stuff on facebook
ive just seen the pics of the slx 12 speed stuff on facebook
You can't say that and not post them!
if they are posted the thread will be deleted like the other thread(s?).
what I will say, I have been trying to count the teeth on the smallest sprocket and have come to the probably wrong number of 11, so not micro spline.
I have been trying to count the teeth on the smallest sprocket and have come to the probably wrong number of 11
That's because they're using an NX cassette 😉
Urgh, a few weeks too late for my new build. Kinda hoping there is no 10-45t and med cage mech now...
I'm a huge fan of current gen XT, it serves on both of my bikes albeit with a Sunrace 11-46 on my 27.5 and a Sunrace 11-50 on my 29er.
I may or may not have seen the alleged teaser pics that may or may not purport to be the next gen SLX, but was also possibly although unable to comment publicly struggling to make out the number of teeth on the smallest cog on what might have been a cassette.
I definitely didn't see the Instagram photo and the slx cassette that doesn't exist absolutely didn't have 10t on the smallest sprocket. And it won't be announced tomorrow afternoon.
I don't know if this is ok, it shows nothing but a time and name.
About a week before Sram launch 13 speed
Are they still using loose ball bearing in there wheels
Why have the threads been deleted? We are not under an NDA and any photos in the wild are just that.
We are not under an NDA
ST will be and they are responsible for stuff posted here.
Are they still using loose ball bearing in there wheels
Cap and cone? Absolutely. They go on forever.
ST will be and they are responsible for stuff posted here.
If it’s already out in the wild and stw didn’t originally publish it then it’s fair game.
Are they still using loose ball bearing in there wheels
I honestly cannot see why this is a problem for some.
On one of the many demo days I have been on recently, a source in the industry cryptically mentioned August to me for 'something new'...
What might this be? – mtb.shimano.com/teaser/
Judging by the last one of these we had (Trek), a new pair of shorts.. shorts to change the world
I suggest searching IG for #slx12sp
#slx12sp works on google images...
Ohh I've seen the image!
I'm tempted to try Shimano 12 speed on my Intense (upgrading from Sram 11 speed). Thing is, I'm looking at new wheels too (possibly Hunt), so I'll be needing to decide on what freehub to order.
I could stick to XD and just get a GX Eagle cassette, but I suppose it depends on whats released later.
"All new SLX AND XT..."!
So it looks like we'll see a 10-51 cassette AND microspline on XT...and exactly the same range and microspline on SLX.
This can only be good news, those of us (like me) who are using Hope hubs with the old Shimano freehub do at least have the option of using a Suntour cassette. I wonder how long it will take proprietary hub manufacturers to adopt the new microspline arrangement?
Shimano have dropped their Scylence (sp?) hubs though, couldn't get them reliable. Honestly seems like their entire mountain bike engineering team have been out on the piss for the last few years. Their brakes went from reliable to hopeless, 11 speed was delayed so long that SRAM ran away with the market, 12 speed XTR has taken ages to arrive, and it's eventually arrived minus cranks and hubs.
I've got three bikes with 11s Shimano mech/shifter on SRAM cassette/chain - always preferred Shimano but they're doing themselves no favours.
Am I the only one who couldn't care less about a 10t cog? Just have a wide enough spread starting with 11t, use a slightly bigger chainring, keep the HG splined freehub bodies. Okay, XTR racing users may need that 10t, but I don't need it in my life, and another freehub body "standard", that isn't even readily available for most hubs, just seems a pain in the arse for all of us non-racers.
Well I’m bloody chuffed. Been waiting for shimano to replace the 8000 series XT as it was bloody awful. Hoping the new stuff has rectified the faults. Such as wandering bite points on brakes and sticky clutches with mechs. Not to mention the awful shifter. I have Ben making do with Eagle XO1 and GX. I run DT Swiss wheels so can get a microspline freehub too! Guess the next question is pricing and likely release dates
Shimano could have gone with XD, which is an open standard as far as I know, but they insisted on inventing their own freehub so that cassettes can still chew up the splines.
I wouldn't change freehubs just to get a 10t cog. But most wheels/hubs can he bad with XD or standard for the same price, and SRAM cassettes are better than shimano ones in just about every way, so that's the way I've gone over the years.
russyh
Well I’m bloody chuffed. Been waiting for shimano to replace the 8000 series XT as it was bloody awful
So youve ben waiting eagerly to give more money to the company that sold you a load of crap products last time?
and likely release dates
I ordered an xt groupset at the start of April for delivery 7th June. Will let you know if it turns up.
Wonder if they have fixed the back pedal issue the plagued 11 speed.
So existing free hub and cranks + SRAM NX or Sunrace cassette + SRAM chain + SLX mech + SLX shifter + 12 speed NW ring from someone like Uberbike...I make that about £220ish...not bad.
So slx is marginally more expensive than nx at rrp, is a fair bit lighter, mostly in the cassette, but you'll need a proprietary freehub for that?
Xt is about a bag of crisps lighter than gx but notably more expensive and (like gx) needs a proprietary freehub.
Other than being shimano what do either of these bring to the party?
I've been using 10sp Saint shifter with SLX cranks and Sunrace 11-46 cassette on N+1 and 11sp XT shifter, M9020 XTR cranks, XT rear and Sunrace 11-50 cassette on my main bike for a while.
Neither put a foot wrong although for my latest new bike treat I wanted a lighter cassette as the Sunrace is a bit of an anchor.
Could make head nor tail of Shimano so finally gave in and bought a X01 eagle groupset that was on offer at Wiggle. 'Offer' is a bit silly as it is still stupid money but, looks to be built very well whilst in its box, and is very light too. The cassette is frankly an amazing bit of engineering.
If Shimano had 12sp, or even a large range cassette that wasn't heavy or had daft ratios, I'd have probably stuck with them. They don't so I didn't.
Building the new bike in a couple of weeks and am genuinly excited at the prospect of fitting the X01 kit - which is a tad sad.. lol
Sunrace 11-50 is lighter than the 12sp slx and not much heavier than the XT. Cost to save a few grams isn’t worth it
From my average at best riding i agree with kelvin, I dont think I've ever come close to spinning out the 11t on my set up a s thats with 26" wheels and a 32 up front
I rode it last week, we were one of the first people in the world and the press launch was just after. It’s brilliant. Really nice cog spacing, two downshifts at once, brakes brilliant, shifter levers are really nice too and adjustable clutch. You forget all the things that annoy you about sram after a while but riding the new xt 12 speed brought it back. I’ve been watching this thread but couldn’t say anything due to the embargo.
Other than being shimano what do either of these bring to the party?
People seem to keep complaining about SRAM being fragile, things breaking, jockey wheels wearing out etc. This is what stopped me going down that route.
Looks nice, and it's good of shimano to join us in 2019 with a range of 12 speed options, but stuff like the microspline hub, and I-spec EV shifter means I'll probably end up going to sram for my next groupset...
(SRAM) looks to be built very well whilst in its box,
That will evaporate when you use it.
So youve ben waiting eagerly to give more money to the company that sold you a load of crap products last time?
Umm, yeah! Given how underwhelmed I have been with some of the SRAM kit! For me Eagle was marginally better than the 8000 series XT, but I can forgive shimano as for years prior to the last series they had supplied great, reliable kit. Who is Ben anyway?
Wonder how long until Hope release a free hub body.
I've got full xtr.... All I can say is its hands down the best mechanical shifting I've had.... Cassette with hyperglide is next level smooth... Double downshifts triple up shifts so smooth quiet and consistent
Great timing for me as when my xtr cassette wears out I should be able get the xt a decent price
Honestly I've had everything other than sram axs (xtr 11spd, xt 11spd, Eagle xx1, Eagle X01, Eagle gx) and it really is way way way better quieter and smoother in every sense
So if xt is heavier version of xtr but offersvthe same performance then you are in for a treat
I’m going for an XTR/XT mix, the main thing that was putting me off before was the price of the cassette. I’m doing a full build so the free hub was never an issue for me.
Anyone know the probability of hope putting out a free hub for pro2 evos? Or are they now so old that they will only do a pro 4 compatible one?
My guess Shackleton is that if they pay the licence fee (or sign what ever else shimano ask for) they'll probably do both. It would certainly seem a mistake not to.
Shimano could have gone with XD, which is an open standard as far as I know, but they insisted on inventing their own freehub so that cassettes can still chew up the splines.
XD is an open standard, but you still need the permission of SRAM in order to use it. And since SRAM and Shimano are arch rivals, SRAM refuse to give it to Shimano to use.
I'm done with SRAM and their poor products and service. My Gx eagle derailleur had a loose bushing with 5-10mm of lateral play (Where the bolt screws to the hangar), sent it back to SRAM for warranty and they said there was nothing wrong with it! They'll never see another penny from me again, looking forward to fitting the XT or SLX 12 speed to my bike when it starts to get discounted a bit.
https://mtb.shimano.com/en/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=201905_en_mtb_launch
Got this in my email earlier today from shimano. (Hope link works)
Shimano still doing a front deraileur, 2x12 must give some range. Liking the look of the slx 4pot calipers too.
I haven't ridden anything with 11 or more speeds from SRAM so it's difficult for me to be objective about their newer kit or how it shifts. The earlier 9/10 speed X9 level SRAM stuff I used looked good straight out of the box, but was annoyingly hard to keep that way. Jockey wheels were too expensive, chainrings wore quickly and bottom brackets (even with those gutter seal jobs) wore out within weeks. I've also read more than one report of the XD freehub shearing if overtightened slightly, so I'm a little dubious.
I went back to XT and haven't really wanted for anything in terms of reliability or maintenance. Although I'm running a 50T sunrace cassette the shifting is good and everything is easy to maintain. Jockey wheels last very well and the mechs (plural - both of my bikes are XT) are a little battered but work perfectly. Cranks are a doddle to install and remove for service, the steel chainring is expensive but lasts ages.
Details now up at [url= https://mtb.shimano.com/teaser/ ]https://mtb.shimano.com/teaser/[/url]
Regional sites have been updated too.
I hope when they launch an updated deore they go 12 speed with an 11-51 cassette to fit existing hubs then you can mix and match new xt/slx/deore to keep the improved shifting and be an alternative to NX
I hope when they launch an updated deore they go 12 speed with an 11-51 cassette to fit existing hubs
Even if they don't as mentioned above you have the option of a Sunrace 11-50. I've got Deore 10 speed running with a Sunrace 11-42 and it works as well as the original cassette.
Back pedal issue ? I have 11speed Shimano and haven’t encountered it.
It's only a problem if you do a lot of riding on the workstand IME.
The 12sp stuff looks great, will mostly likely move to a mix of XT and SLX shifty bits in due course.
The only issue is gonna be whether to move wheels over to microspline or stick with XD and use GX cassettes.
Need a cost-benefit analysis on that one.
I could be tempted by that XT direct mount chainset.
Being able to swap rings around would be nice.
avdave2 agree sunrace is an option and would probably be lighter than a deore 12 spd cassette.
I'm still on 10 speed with Deore 11-42, Saint and XT. Was not that impressed with Shimano 11 speed with ridiculous cassette ratios and poor change quality.
If 12 speed improves that then I'm in when prices come down. Shimano stuff is always more aesthetically pleasing than SRAM to me and latest stuff is no exception
I’m still on 10 speed with Deore 11-42, Saint and XT. Was not that impressed with Shimano 11 speed with ridiculous cassette ratios and poor change quality
You do have a point, the change quality on XT 11spd isn't as nice as the last gen 9 speed XT but it's by no means shabby. You are 100% correct on the weird cassette ratios. I managed one ride on an XT 11-46 cassette before swapping it for a Sunrace, the lowest ratios were all over the place.
Mixed response from hope regarding getting freehubs any time soon.....
<p style="font-weight: 400;">Thanks for your email – unfortunately we do not yet have the licence for microspline so we are unable to manufacture a compatible freehub. We have been talking with Shimano ever since the new standard was announced, they stated that they would only offer it to OEM hub manufacturers and the hubs must be branded with the bike manufacturers name. They said that would not release the licence to aftermarket hub manufacturers but looking at the wheels and hubs listed in the XT and SLX launch it seems that they are stating different rules to each manufacturer, which is disappointing for us and our loyal customers.</p>
<p style="font-weight: 400;">We’ll continue to lobby Shimano for the licence.</p>
Looks like shimano aren't bothered about aftermarket sales....
At least Hope are on it. Hopefully Shimano will play nice given that they will potentially block an upgrade path for many of us running Hope (and other non-Shimano) hubs.
Looks like shimano aren’t bothered about aftermarket sales….
Indeed. Very odd and a bad business decision IMO.
Also odd when the aftermarket pricing on SLX in particular makes it look like they're they're going in hard on Sram.
Sram have just upped production of 12 speed cassettes. Who actually runs shimano hubs?
Looks like shimano aren’t bothered about aftermarket sales….
Does seem really weird - will mean that I will end up with a Sunrace/ SRAM NX (PG-1230) cassette. Which means I won't be using a Shimano chainring or chain either. So rather than buying shifter, mech, cassette, chain, chainring and cranks; I will just be buying a shifter and mech...
I will just be buying a shifter and mech…
Same here probably.
Will also stick with Shimano BBs, but otherwise it'll probably be RF cranks, Superstar chainring, Sram cassette & whatever chain is on a good discount.
More people are mix-and-matching now, I think.
Who actually runs shimano hubs?
I did until recently and still run shimano wheels on the road bike in winter.
Given an occasional clean they last ages. And there's a good rationale to disposable free hubs rather than having to replace bearings, pawls, springs and rings as they die. And the new clicky bearings are a doddle to service which makes them more user friendly for the mechanically unsympathetic.
I rode a bike with the 'entry level' dt 350 hub which only costs one kidney not two the other day, horribly loud and I thought the gaps between pickup were bad on shimano!
As long as 11 speed is around for a while I'll not be in any hurry to go to 12. I don't have any problems with the current iteration of XT. Shifting is good, components are robust and long-lasting, cassette ratios are fine (though I've not tried the 11-46) and brakes are spot on once properly bled. It means I'm not chasing new freehub standards either (though I'm currently preferring Shimano hubs in any case). The only thing that there might be for me is a 165mm Boost crankset. Currently, XT only offers 170mm.
Oh - Shimano hubs.. My Gravel/Tourer has been running mostly on XTR970 hubs for 10 years. I've regreased them three times. Fatbike has a XT756 hub. 8 years and counting and, as you might imagine) has been regukatly abused in snow, sand, sea and peatbog. I give it an annual inspection but its still rolling.
New XT (dynamo) front and XT rear for a second wheel set on the gravel bike too.
Meh. Doesn't seem to be of any benefit to me, so not interested. 4 bikes with Eagle in our household & no issues.
My only experience of Shimano recently has been SLX hubs & brakes on my other halfs long termer test bike. The wheelset is now fit for the bin, as the hubs have so much play after 4 months, they are effectively scrap & it's been through 3 freehubs already. The brakes, have all the wonderful Shimano traits of the on/off switch feel & a bite point which changes it's mind every time you pull the lever.
