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Hi all,
The last couple of months on the gravel bike really have reignited the itch for a lightweight (ish) hardtail, something that could span from bikepacking to light trail riding. Covering ground efficiently but also handling well in actual trails.
The idea would be to build something with light wheels and XC tyres but using a hardtail frame with progressive geometry.
General requirements would be:
- static reach at least 460-470 for a large
- HA under 67
- I guess fork travel will be around 120mm, but this will depend on the frame
- chain tensioning system is a very big nice to have, I'd really like to mess around for a bit with a single speed setup
- the more mounts the better, but negotiable.
- needs to be dropper friendly, a 27.2 100mm dropper won't cut it
The main options that come to mind:
- Pipedream Sirius S5
- Salsa Timberjack
- The new Santa Cruz Chameleon, but seems like they are not offering the frame anymore
- Specialized Fuze, but the frame only seems to be very hard to find
Anything else I should consider?
Thanks
The new Santa Cruz Chameleon, but seems like they are not offering the frame anymore
Retailers are. £799.
Where?
Can't really find them online
Can't open the page... Gives me an error
I'm living in Switzerland, could it be it?
Stif are only offering them to order which could mean anything in this day and age
Sonder broken road
Actually to steep in the head angle and a bit short but you do get sliding drop outs. A mate has one and it sends incredibly versatile
https://alpkit.com/collections/sonder-broken-road
Stanton Sherpa seems to fit the numbers as does the Solaris
https://www.stantonbikes.com/product/sherpa-gen-3/
Cotic Solaris max
https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/solarisMAX#sizing
At the risk of recommending what you have, definitely add the Sherpa to the list. I’ve not ridden my full sus since getting mine, but I’ve also bikepacked on it and would use it over my gravel bike for long comfortable rides.
Stanton don’t make SS dropouts, but someone on the Stanton FB group has just posted about machining them themselves.
The Cotic Solaris Max looks like a great option, but no chain tensioner...
Can’t open the page… Gives me an error
I’m living in Switzerland, could it be it?
Drop them an email, sales@stifmtb.com.
Does it have to ss dropouts? I just use a tensioner on my ss, makes it very easy to change gear, or go geared or whatever, much less faff than slide dropouts
Having been exclusively on SS for a few years in the past, I'd prefer to stay away from tensioners
I’ve got a Moxie on order but the Sirius looks great if you don’t want a big fork. The only caveat from all the reviews I’ve seen is that the stack height is quite low so you need to figure that into the fit - if you like higher bars then you might need to go up a size to get the reach you want.
FYI the geometry is quoted at sag with a 100mm fork so static it’ll be taller and slacker (and more so with a 120mm fork). I’m building my Moxie up singlespeed but have the gears too in case my legs/bad knee can’t hack it!
Not got anything to add myself but the Sirius and new Timberjack we're both reviewed on a well known bicycle magazine / website in the last couple of months. Might help your deliberations. Obviously if you buy the Sirius you'll need the matching dungarees to go with it 😉
https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/pipedream-sirius-s5-review/
Thanks for the heads up on the reviews!
Just happens that I'm not a subscriber... I know, shame on me
Would someone care to share the mains conclusions from the reviews?
Would someone care to share the mains conclusions from the reviews?
Sure! PayPal me a fiver and I’ll copy and paste the details.
Ah... Fair enough
Was considering to subscribe for a while, I guess this seals the deal
Done!
Marin Team 2 Pro
Ok, so I simulated my typical SS gearing for 40km on the gravel bike, and honestly I don't think I'll do it on the hardtail.
I'm still attracted by chain tensioning in the frame, as it allows you to get yourself out of a drivetrain failure in the middle of nowhere (happened to me in the past).
On the other hand, having a spare derailleur hanger might even be more effective than an emergency single speed. And most framed with a tensioning system happen to lack those.
So I'm willing to change my criteria to:
- progressive "downcountry" (everybody's favourite word to hate) or light trail geometry
- as many mounts as possible
- slight preference for sliding dropouts/EBB but readly available replaceable hanger also acceptable
- in stock!!
Yeti ARC ?
Absolutely love mine
I'm two rides into my new cotic solarismax and I have to say it's awesome.
I've never ridden a bike that steers that predictably. Super fast down. Feels great on the climbs and instantly feels just natural and right.
Can't wait for the first big ride.
In recommend what you have style, I've got an Orange Clockwork Evo that might well fit the bill.
Use website geometrygeeks to compare.
Pace RC529? it's a little longer reach (484mm in LG) and a little slacker (65) - but that's based on a 140 fork. Mine's running a 130, so I guess the reach is shortened a touch and head angle a shade steeper. It's very nice though - and it's got sliding dropouts!
If you are in Switzerland maybe take a look at the BMC Two Stroke & up the fork to 120mm,which bmc told me over email is max it supports. Or if you have a bit more cash Cannondale Scalpel ht the new gen.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
I was doing some introspection on the topic today and I think that in reality I had my mind set on the Sirius S5 from the beginning, sort of looking for justifications to look at other options.
I'll look around to try to see if anything is in stock somewhere. Should I find none, then I'll look for alternatives
I doubt the Sirius would be ideal for bike packing as it's very much a head down bike, something just about all the reviewers have mentioned. I'd suggest a Scandal but they're sold out. You'd be hard put to find a negative comment about the frame, nor from me either.
Love my Fuse - I managed to find the fancy version of the frame second hand and barely used. I'm just about to singlespeed it as I haven't turned purple and thrown up in a few years now.
Before that I had a Stache with regular 29" wheels - a fun bike - and over the last few years I'd looked seriously at the Chameleon, the Timberjack and the Sirius. If I had a choice right now, I'd say the Timberjack would be the one for me. Lots of clever touches.
@cloggy sorry, but I just don't see how the bikes downhill habilities hurt it's bikepacking performance. I see the same kind of comments being made frequently in bikepacking websites and I always wonder.
Reminds me not that long ago when people assumed that a slack HA made the bike a slower climber (nevermind that Nino is now wining races with a HA that's borderline enduro from 4 years ago). Thankfully we are losing this zero sum game approach to bike performance and design
Besides the frame, I'll have to look for a pair of wheels. I weigh at the moment 85kg bare naked, excluding gear a bikepacking load. Would the DT Swiss XR1700 be tough enough? Or should I go for the XM1700?
You misunderstand. I said it was a head down bike not a downhill one. It has a very long and low front end and an unsagged head angle not far off 63, one is leaning forward and down, riding it very much like a modern dirt bike on the front wheel. At my age I doubt I could ride it without back pain but it seems very effective for those that can adapt. All the frames come with the same low headtube, something that the Singletrack review failed to understand.
You're right, sorry for the misunderstanding, I see what you mean
Anyway, anyone willing to weight in on the wheel topic? Or should I create a separate thread?
What about the chisel? Always come out as quite capable in reviews of xc bikes.
Quite £££ though
Just to bring some closure to the topic, ended up ordering a Cotic Solaris Max frame.
Reasons for the choice:
- geometry seems to be spot on
- easily replaceable, standard Syntace hanger
- bottle cage mounts under the downtube
- availability
Have most of the kit ready to assemble:
- 130mm fork
- Hunt Trail Wide wheels
- Reckon Race 2.4 rear, Rekon 2.4 front tyres
- Crank Brothers 200mm dropper
Can't wait to try it, hoping for it to be a efficient and fast but still fun bike
@zezaskar, what a timely thread update. I'm currently doing something very similar to you with a Solaris Max frame and a lightweight build. I was looking for a light carbon XC race bike but with the reach of my XL Flaremax, couldn't finding anything with a 500mm+ reach so bought a Solaris.
Probably won't be done for a few weeks as I'm waiting on parts.
Looking forward to seeing yours.
I must be odd, I certainly wouldn't describe a Solaris as an XC frame. To me it was very much a downhill oriented trail frame.
Sure, it's not a ultra light XC racer on the traditional sense, but surely can be built as an efficient and fast bike. The BfeMax is the real downhill oriented frame on their range
I now have a BFEmax. It's a brilliant climber, at least as good as my Scandal. On open moorland with lots of fast downhills I prefer it. I bought it to convert to an E bike but I like it so much I doubt that will happen.
How are you getting on with your bike - I recently built up something with very similar parts, but went with a Vandal frame.
I think a 130mm fork works well with a hardtail.
Sure, it’s not a ultra light XC racer on the traditional sense, but surely can be built as an efficient and fast bike. The BfeMax is the real downhill oriented frame on their range
It's interesting, when the SolarisMAX first came out it was generally portrayed in the 140mm fork build and very much discussed as an enduro-ready radness machine (I remember Will's video review of the black/gold sparkly one for example).
Since the BFEMax launched the SolarisMAX is much more marketed as a 120mm-SID-equipped lithe and nippy trail bike.
Which is fair enough of course, it's always been able to do both!
I recently got a BFEMax which I chose over a SolarisMAX because:
* I'd sooner have the (slightly) radder geometry than not,
* Price,
* Aesthetics
I've found though that the BFEMax is a decent XC machine, not in a head-down Lycra way maybe, but in the sense of a comfy place to traverse the scenery. It's a great climber as @cloggy says.
Anyway. Rambling a bit. Enjoy your SolarisMAX OP they look ace. What colour are you getting?
Hardtale Party thought the BFEMAX slightly sharper and the Solaris more compliant. Cy's said he prefers the Solaris cross country. I spend most of my time either climbing or descending, that's just how it is here. Another member having both preferred the Scandal to his Solaris for it's agility; so a lot comes down to preference and where you ride.
We all get hung up on numbers, but tube profiles have a huge influence in how a bike feels and that's probably the distinguishing difference between the BFE and Solaris. I don't think Cy gets enough credit for that.
I'm old. I have the reaction times of a tortoise so anything that gives me confidence is accepted. As everyone states Cotics are confidence inspiring downhill.
We all get hung up on numbers, but tube profiles have a huge influence in how a bike feels and that’s probably the distinguishing difference between the BFE and Solaris. I don’t think Cy gets enough credit for that.
I think there's a lot to be said for that.
@tomparkin I went for the green one.
Hope it doesn't get stuck in the customs for too long here in Switzerland. The rest of the kit is arriving this week and I can't wait to ride it
@tomparkin I went for the green one.
It's important that you post some pictures once it is in your possession and built up 🙂
@tomparkin will do, for sure.
Not expecting it to be an absolute looker, as some of the kit will be mix and match with whats available, but hope its going to be a very functional build