XC Hardtail... which one?

BMC TwoStroke owner here. Really like it, but then nothing to compare it against. Only thing that lets it down, though I have had no problems, is it being a PressFit BB. Only got the entry level one, but upgrading it as and when. Was gifted a set of DT SWiss F232 forks which have transformed the ride and dropped around a kilo from the weight too.

I did see the Chisel for £1500 the other day but can't remember where

I’ll recommend what I bought as an impulse purchase, Genesis Mantle. Paid £800 ( 2nd hand, hardly used) just done the pennine bridleway on it. It handles better laden up, go figure..

@spyke85 - is yours a carbon or alloy one?

@kayjay - interesting, i will take a look at the Genesis.

Oh and i forgot, the Orbea Alma looks pretty good, but i have read the stand over/geo is a little dated, especially compared to the cannondale.

Carbon

Potentially a bit more hardy than a carbon bike.

Utter tosh that, if you can break a carbon bike you can sure as hell break an alloy one and vice versa.

I've got a previous generation Scott Scale 910 and it's mega for what you describe, that generation is still available in plenty of build choices, mine has GX eagle with XT brakes, Silt XC wheels and a dropper and it's 10.3kg on my scales in a large.

Don't get too hung up on ultra modern geo for a XC HT, it's not like you're going to be chucking yourself down pick up sticks at Stellenbosch, so a degree here or there ain't going to ruin your ride experience.

That Epic you've quoted will weigh a sodding ton, the forks are heavy and a bit shit, throw in chunky boggo spesh wheels and a NX cassette and I reckon it'll be approaching 13.5kg

Same money will get you a Scale 930 with Fox Rhythm 32 with a GRIP 3 position damper - a bloody good fork - and tubeless wheels and tyres out of the box

Scott Scale HT is the best bike ive ever owned

Titus El-Viajero? I bought this over the Chisel. Mine's just under 10kg with 2.4 mud tyres at both ends. On summer tyres it would be closer to 9.7kg. Not super light, but I wasn't really trying too hard.

@v7fmp been through this exact process earlier in the year, got another 'trail' bike and wanted something for local riding, some proper old fashioned XC exploring and a spot of racing. Its also pretty much replaced my gravel bike.

Looked at pretty much the same things as you.

BMC twostroke - frame is great, aggeresive geo, good if you have short legs, build specs not brill
Orbea Alma - build options are good, but very old fashioned and terrible seat tube/reach proportions - no good unless you have giant gangly legs.
Specialized Epic - great frame, crap build specs and options
Scalpel HT - very nearly bought this one.
Scott Scale - old version - loads available, good vlaue, good quality, but old fashioned geo.
Scott Scale - new 2023 version - finally, got the geometry it deserved.

Bought the RC team version of the frame (C2W0 and built it up for around the £2k mark, bit more maybe, with a variety of new and used/spares box bits.

Don’t get too hung up on ultra modern geo for a XC HT, it’s not like you’re going to be chucking yourself down pick up sticks at Stellenbosch, so a degree here or there ain’t going to ruin your ride experience.

I'd counter this by saying the opposite - its made all the difference in my enjoyment of the bike. Its light, like an XC biike, but got proper capable geometry, like a trail bike - and its much better for it. I can also ride a medium, get the reach toptube dimensions I want, whilst having a short enough seat tube to suit a proper sized dropper - with the orbea in particular, and the older Scott Scale this was not possible.

Get your local Scott dealer to check their business accounts and see whats available. I'm dead chuffed with mine.

Also, I've never owned a Scott before, and the frame quality, the paint job, the accessories, eve nthe packagin, is/was absolutely astounding, and i've had some pretty nice bikes.

Headset routing was a minor bit of faffage during build but thats it, all works perfectly now. and it loooks really neat, and is silent.

I'd go Cannondale, or (new) Scale, if you can.

@snotrag - thanks for the reply, looks like you went through the exact process i am! Some great info and feedback there.

I remember your bike from a previous thread, its delightful! Maybe ill give the local Scott dealer a call.

Did you buy blind? Or manage to sit on any of the listed bikes? I managed to throw a leg over a Trek Procaliber, but whilst it was nice, it didnt get my juices flowing.

Im quite excited for something that potentially will move like a rocket ship!

Carbon v alloy. My 2p is that carbon is more susceptible. Scraped my Specialized enduro on a rock. Carbon gouges easily.
Spesh warranty guy said “that’s a write off”. Alloy would have been fine.
Mind my current bikes carbon. Wrapped. I’m not available carbon so I had to relent on my metal only rule. It’s not a hardtail so you’d not want to know about it.

I'd echo snotrag in that a lightweight/XC weight bike with not-too XC geometry is a recipe for fast & fun.

In my case I splurged on a Yeti ARC frame to swap bits onto, it built up in the low 11kg's but still with a dropper post, 4-pot brakes, Fox 34's and a not too steep 67-deg head angle and low standover etc:

Other than that I can't help other than suggesting you listen to the part of your brain that said the Procaliber didn't get your juices flowing and follow the old rule that good looking bikes always ride the best!

@v7fmp I sat on/briefly tried the Epic, the older Scott, and the Cannondale. Orbea I could discount on numbers alone. The one I bought was based on studying the geo and comparing with existing/previous bikes, and I had a look at some of the 2022 Sparks with the same headset arrangements.

I've got a Scalpel. Apart from just being a beautiful thing (mine has a Lefty and the Purple Haze paint job) it handles better than any bike I've ever had. It just goes where you think, if you see what I mean. Just so much fun on singletrack. I would expect that the Scott is similar.

I’ve just got a 2022 Scott scale 925 which I found on eBay brand new for about £1k off rrp. Did 100km / 1500m at the weekend along the first part of the KAW and then down through the new forest and back up to Winchester: real mix of surfaces and gradients. Absolutely loved it. No more effort than riding my drop bar gravel bike but much more fun on the downs. That fork is awesome and the ability to lock it out half way is really useful. Previously had a two stroke and a 901 and this is the hard tail I want to ride every weekend rather than 3 times a year. Spent this week so far dreaming about another 100km whilst the country is (hopefully) busy watching the telly on Saturday.

I've got a Chisel, not far off as comfortable as the alloy Trek Procaliber with ISO speed it replaced. I looked at the Epic but reviews said it gave a harsh ride. In hindsight, I wish I went frame only as I swapped most of the spec out as soon as I got it.

@onewheelgood - thanks for the feedback. Its defo edging its way up the list.

@Kuco - what there a reason you ditched the Procaliber for the Chisel? I have discounted the Epic, as you say, reviews dont paint it in the best light. Any pics of your chisel?

@jfab - The ARC is a thing of beauty and i did initially consider one, but i think i want more of the XC scale than trail, even tho i suspect the Yeti could be built as light!

@curto80 - thanks, i will take another look at the Scott's.

@v7fmp Not a great pic but the only one i've got and it's now got a GX chainset on it. I got rid of the Procaliber as it wasn't being ridden and my sister wanted a bike so I sold her it. I was using my FS at the time then got rid of that due to lack of use. Not needing a FS for what I was riding I went back to a hardtail and after a lot of looking and pondering ended up with a Chisel.

https://www.fetcheveryone.com/gallery-image.php?id=216740

I appreciate the reply.

Good stuff?

How tall are you and what size is it?

Xc hardtails are so much shorter than enduro bikes 😂

I'm only 5'7" and that's a small. Specialized size guide states I should be a medium but the reach felt way too long for me personally. I will say I'm on the limit for its size.

Thanks @kuco

A new contender enters the chat… that’s a good looking Scalpel!

that’s a good looking Scalpel!

I'm also 5'7" and that is also a small. It was the only one in the country of any size so I took a chance and it's worked out perfectly, although Cannondale's size guide says I should be on a medium. Anyway, a small is lighter 🙂

A new contender enters the chat… that’s a good looking Scalpel!

Apart from the fact the bars are almost as high as the saddle!!!

As we're posting pics, my previously mentioned Scale 910 carbon

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Just picked up a trek procaliber 9.5, rides really nice. Proper XC rather than LLS. Now I just need to relearn how to ride MTBs properly again

I rather like the Cube Reaction, tho' I prefer the Al to the carbon one (looks alone).

I have a Pivot Les. I had a Scott Scale , and given the choice again that's what I'd go for, although I've always fancied a procaliber too.

Edit# Actually the two stroke is pretty sexy as well.  Saw one the other day :-).

I considered most of the bikes listed recently, and bought a Yeti ARC in the end as well.

[img] [/img]

My old bike was a Genesis Mantle, which has similar geometry to many of those listed - whereas the Yeti is about 2 degrees slacker for the head angle and a couple steeper for the seat angle, and has a higher front end. I run a similar flat bar / rigid post build to the Genesis, but with 34 Step Cast Fox forks instead of 32s and 2.4 Rekons instead of 2.2 "old" Forekasters, 50mm rather than 70mm stem etc. Weight is c.10kg ex-pedals.

First things first... I think I'm a touch slower on the Yeti. It's still early days (sub-100km riding) and I have made a few changes like slamming the stem, which helped a lot. That said, I am also five years older than when I got the Genesis and am generally dropping a few percent on Strava despite similar cycling volume. The new build has given me the greater confidence that I was looking for, which makes the Yeti a more versatile bike and less of a handful on rockier sections.

well i was hoping this thread would help me make a decision..... not throw further ideas into the mix!

I keep coming back to the Chisel for a multitude of reasons, but then as soon as a new suggestion or a fresh picture goes up i am back to square one 😀

As mentioned my only complaint with the Chisel is I wished I went frame only as the build spec on Specialized bikes is shite compared to some other manufacturers. The frame, fork, wheels, and seatpost are the only original things left on mine and most of it was swapped straight away.

It is a beautiful hardtail but unless its a full Sus, then it's not really a Scalpel 😉

Apart from the fact the bars are almost as high as the saddle!!!

Ooh, get you.

I'm 5'7", 63 years old, and I've never been a racer. Pretty much all my bikes have the saddle and bars at the same height, because if I put the saddle any higher I couldn't reach the pedals, and if I put the bars any lower my back wouldn't thank me. Piss off with your elitist snobbery.

I have been following this with interest as I am contemplating a similar decision.
I have a Solaris max but it really is a lump.
Even with light wheels and carbon forks, it still feels like a tank. Is this just my perception? Will I notice a genuine improvement if I move to something like the Yeti? Or is this all angels dancing on the head of a pin with incremental gains imperceptible to a clumsy oaf like me?

Been through the same thought process recently and the answer I came up with was Trek Procaliber or Scott Scale. Mate just bought a Procaliber (after listening to me rambling on!) and likes it very much.

I like the look of the Chisel but it just seems horrific value compared to virtually anything else.

I managed to get a Chisel frame before the price jumped and in a sale. It’s a perfect frame for the majority of my riding. Complete bikes and frames now are over-priced. They do come up quite a lot second hand though.

A lot of the Pro Calibers are on offer at Trek at the moment, the 9.7 with carbon wheels is £2.5k at the moment which is a bit of a bargain.

@FOG I've always been a steel hardtail fan (still am) and have been fairly dismissive of lightweight MTB's as a bit unnecessary; what's the point having a ~10kg bike when you're going to ride it with 2kg of water on it and wearing a backpack/hip pack etc. etc.

I'm not ashamed to say I was completely wrong, it's bloody great! I swapped everything across from my Cotic BFeMAX which was pretty lightly built (Fox 34 Fork, Hunt XC wheels, carbon bars) and I think around high 12kg's so not a complete lump and it rode beautifully but like you say feels solid. When you're in the mood/on the right trail/descending that's a positive but if you're a bit tired/chasing someone a little faster/fitter it can psychologically make it seem like hard work.

The Yeti is just an absolute rocketship on the flat, climbs and also the descents and doesn't feel as fragile/twitchy as I worried it might. It's super solid feeling and even with a dropper post, 4-pot SRAM brakes and my Fox 34 it's sub-11kg's plus pedals without having anything flimsy on it. I don't know if it's more the weight, the stiffness under power or a combination but it just rewards putting power into the pedals that bit more, nothing feels wasted.

I'll definitely be keeping my BFeMAX because it's great too, just different.

@FOG

Can agree with what @jfab is saying. I have owned a handful of 29er HTs, including a Spesh Carve (early/steeper relative of the Chisel I guess) plus a mk1 Solaris and a Solaris max longshot, also a Surly karate monkey.

I was, at first, unsure about a carbon MTB but my desire (since the early 90s) to own a Yeti, coupled with a good deal meant I went for it.

Had mine 2 and bit years now and no regrets. I love the description of how it likes to accelerate. A couple of riding buddies call it my e-bike mode! Climbing is rewarding.

I also find it super comfy on longer rides too.

Everyone is different / will have varying opinions. But, for me, it ticks the box so well it’s like someone listened to what I wanted from a bike and made it!

Thanks once again for all the opinions and options.

I have whittled it down to either the cannondale scalpel HT4, specialized chisel comp or the wild card Yeti ARC (frame).

The scalpel sounds like it fits the bill. But there is something about the chisel that keeps drawing me in.

Then the ARC is much more trail than I want, but keep reading so many good things and how light it is…. 🤷‍♂️

I don’t think a bike buying decision has been this hard for me in the past (first world problems right?!?)

A lot of people race XC on Arcs. I did a race at the weekend and both of the 2 highest cats were won by riders on Arcs and I saw at least 5 others riding them (the local shop is a Yeti dealer which may partially explain it).

People mentioned frame-only deals around the place, anyone happen to see one for a shop which ships outside the UK?

Can’t see past the Scott scale. Mines an older 2017 27.5 and with dropper fitted it’s a hoot. Around 21lb mark too with pedals.

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