[Closed] wtf is "all mountain"?

the kind of kit that can handle an 8ft drop to flat would be jolly heavy.

some people need it, some don't. i suppose somewhere in the middle is 'all mountain'.

or whatever you want to call it.

mavic 317 rims are not famous for their strength. they're a good compromise, but don't come here looking for sympathy after you've bent one riding quite hard.

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[url= http://sonic.net/~ckelly/Seekay/mtbwelcome.htm ][b]2retro4u[/b][/url]
Marin County, Cali

"All mountain" is another microscopic subdivision of off-road, designed to get you to add yet another superficially "different" bike to your "collection."

In short, it's marketing.

No further comment required... 8)

It's all marketing bullshit. After all it's only cycling no matter what you call it 😉

I'm more into an aggressive xc personally...

There is nothing so much worth doing as simply cocking about on bikes.

ahwiles - Member
cocking about

I resemble that remark. 😉

"All mountain" is another microscopic subdivision of off-road, designed to get you to add yet another superficially "different" bike to your "collection."

In short, it's marketing.

The thing is, you only have to read the posts on STW to realise that there's quite a broad range of riding styles, levels, abilities etc in the community.

'It's just marketing' to persuade you you need another bike is quite a cynical way of looking at it.

A more positive way might be that it's a term that helps people understand what the product is meants for (actually I think that's sort of the OP's point).

I don't know why marketing has such an evil connotation among people here and while I am not here to defend it as a profession, I would say that unless someone responsible for making the products you buy tells you something about what it is for, then you're not going to buy it are you?

That's all marketing is; it's not an evil conspiracy so much as a way of addressing peoples' very individual needs.

It is a bit of marketing but if you rode your xc lightweight wheels down some very steep rocky stuff very hard they might not last too long. So manufacturers didn't probably want to put "heavy duty" on their parts as you may have then thought - heavy - er not what I want. So "All Mountain" is basically a bit more beefy than xc but not quite downhill stuff. What it sort of does is point people in the right direction for stuff they "may" need 🙂

So "All Mountain" is basically a bit more beefy than xc but not quite downhill stuff. What it sort of does is point people in the right direction for stuff they "may" need

This, yes there is an element of marketing in it - but it's just shorthand for a type of bike - What's really hilarious is people getting all upset about it.

That's all marketing is; it's not an evil conspiracy so much as a way of addressing peoples' very individual needs.

You clearly don't work in marketing 😉

So "All Mountain" is basically a bit more beefy than xc but not quite downhill stuff. What it sort of does is point people in the right direction for stuff they "may" need
This, yes there is an element of marketing in it - but it's just shorthand for a type of bike - What's really hilarious is people getting all upset about it.

I absolutely agree. There is always a lot of barking at the moon going on here at STW towers.

all mountain is a style of riding that is so full of gnarr that it will render the surrounding fauna exclusively male.

i do it all the time.

Does 'enduro' actually mean anything wrt mountain bikes? I know it means something specific in motorcycling, but if a bicycle company are marketing an enduro bike, what are they trying to say?

its just cycling though... isn't it ?

if a bicycle company are marketing an enduro bike, what are they trying to say?

It's a bike suitable for stuff like the Megavalanche etc - not the things that people call enduros here.

"All mountain" is just mountain biking. Simple as that.

I have 2 "all mountain" bikes. I take them up big ass mountains then rag them down. Sometimes I ride them somewhere else.

Dh is just biking as is XC Dirt Jumping and Trials. An all mountain bike can do all of these happily and is a "jack of all trades". Its the bike you would take for a couple of weeks in the Alps where climbing will be involved too. I dont think its just a marketing ploy. The fact it means different bikes(and different types) for different people is just down to taste riding syle fitness and skill levels...luckily we dont all want the same bike!

Aren't "Enduro" and "All Mountain" pretty much interchangeable terms, just born of different cultures? As far as I can remember everything I've seen badged as "Enduro" would be what I would consider "All Mountain".

I must admit, I've started finding All Mountain a pretty useful term. It turns out that to a lot of people Cross Country mean lycra, mellow trails and racing. So All Mountain does a good job as short hand for the sort of riding where you need to drop your saddle for the ride back down.

Sure there's a lot of fragmentation of terms happening, but then mountain biking is becoming ever more specialized!

Enduro is what you're doing if you're doing All Mountain as a competition

Use of the word cocked twice in one post - you'll never make an all mountain rider

delusional

Specialized

You realise of course that is the iccorect speeling of the wurd?
Unless it was intentional: in which case was far too subtle for this board (but it made me LOL) 😉

Marketing is all it is 'bit like 29er, just a crosser with bigger tyres and flat bars after all they are both 700c and ridden off road

i kinda like the term all mountain... got a basic hardtail at the moment and im aware that it wouldn't appreciate anything too aggressive if my skills were ever to develop to that level. I'm not interested in pushing my riding to specifically DH or jumps so to invest in a bike designed with one discipline in mind would be silly... however if my skills ever get to a level where my basic hardtail is holding me back then "all mountain" would be a relatively safe bet i'm guessing as it would imply that it'd be suitable for experimenting and pushing myself in the direction of whatever takes my fancy without needing several different bikes.

not sure if my opinion helps at all as i'm sure all you super experienced chaps are getting fed up of all these new genres and sub-genres (the same way i get fed up with the same in the music industry)... but to me all mountain is kinda useful.

then again by the time it takes me to get good enough to need an all mountain dandyhorse all mountain might be split up into "AM-FR", "AM-DH" and "AM-XC" or something!

CrotchRocket - it made me smile 😀

To me All mountain means a bike which is comfortable/capable of doing everything you would expect to do on a mountain bike. It just won't be as accomplished at any one task as a bike specifically built for that sort of riding.

To me it means 150+ travel in a form which'll climb like a mountain goat and be so good down hills that I can't keep up!

I thought it was an impossible task, but having ridden a Nicolai Helius AM at the beginning of last month my interpretation is definitely a reality!

"All mountain" is another microscopic subdivision of off-road, designed to get you to add yet another superficially "different" bike to your "collection."

In short, it's marketing.

ed zachary

To me, all mountain means that it can ride up to the top of whatever you want, then blast back down without any problems.

I live the SW UK, and while there are rocky bits, we're mostly riding smooth/rough dirt with roots. I can get away with a HT most of the time and have 100% fun. But I rode down Snowdon in the summer and it's all rocks coming at-cha fast - I was very glad of 5.5" of suspension.

Both bikes are sub-30lb and have a big cross-over, but they have different. So I understand why these terms exist.

trailmonkey - Member
all mountain is a style of riding that is so full of gnarr that it will render the surrounding fauna exclusively male.

i do it all the time.

All mountain us the type of riding that makes mole hills out of mountains, it's the type of riding Chuck Norris does, it's the type of riding you do after taking a woman on a date and not calling her back, it's the type of riding that could cure cancer if it wanted to.

it's the type of riding Chuck Norris does,

where do i sign up?

i've got some gnarly curbs that need taming.

Mavic 317 is just one level up from shopping bike. Good for fire roads.

it used to be called xc...

A bike you can ride to the top and then give some beans on the descent with - nae mincin!

Haven't you got anything more important to get angry about?

XC in pyjamas

Mavic 317 is just one level up from shopping bike. Good for fire roads.

Don't think they are that bad I have 117s on one set of old wheels and they have been retired because the hubs are dead maybe people ride to clumsily to **** rims

I thought All Mountain was i bike that is a Jack of all trades
up the mountain and down the other side, Taking the rough with
the smooth, without falling apart

Da Da All Mountain 🙄

Here's what I have found out - it's a progression.

Basic Mountain Bike - Hybrid
- Not much more than a road bike with knobbly tyres, and maybe a token front fork suspension. Ok for off-tarmac, Fire Road, Canal Path.

XC Mountain Bike
- 100mm Travel, Light weight, Disc Brakes, Hard Tail mostly, some Full Sus. Built for off-road, low gradient, but not heavily technical terrain. Built for all round fast speed, especially up hill.

Trail Mountain Bike
- 120-140mm Travel, heavier & stronger than XC, Hard Tail and Full Sus. Built for more technical off-road, OK for moderate drops and jumps, moderate gradients, with a slacker geometry. Still relatively light. Fast to Moderate uphill speed.

All Mountain Bike
- 140-180mm Travel, heavier and stronger than a Trail Bike. Almost exclusively Full Sus. Built-in capability for most technical terrain excepting hardcore downhill. OK for larger drops and jumps, faster downhill capability, increased weight limits uphill speed and capability.

Down Hill Bike
- 160-200mm travel Iron Horse. Very heavy, super strong bike built for steep gradient heavy terrain, high drops and jumps at speed. Not intended for even moderate uphill, weight severely limits uphill capability (other than gravity assisted). Ultimate downhill capability and speed.

Then apply these various sub-categories which can be subdivisions of the above:-
Play Bike
4X
Dirt Bike
Enduro
Marathon
29er

Of course feel free to pish on everything I've stated above.

You missed out geometry in your listing there, a 180mm freeride bike and a 180mm Downhill bike would be very different shapes. So clasifying them purely on travel is a non starter?

And a 4x bike is a 4x bike, just like a track bike is a track bike, untill it's ridden elswhere at which point the owner becomes a boring know it all knob whos only doing it because it suits his style of riding, maaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

XC = riding around off-road with wheels rarely leaving the ground

AM = XC possibly on trails which may be more technical/demanding/harder on equipment, and/or wheels leaving the ground more frequently

my point is, if you are riding a mountain bike, then surely you'd expect that you can ride it into and over the mountains. why kit out an "all mountain" mountain bike with parts made of cheese.

Most of us - even the bumblies - are a lot more demanding on kit than we were 20 years ago. If I rode my old Spesh Hard Rock - steel, full rigid - the same way I do my modern bikes, it would fall to bits. Rims would buckle, frames would crack...

Also, with suspension and disc brakes so prevalent I think we all go for it a bit more and the scope for what is possible has widened. This has meant different niches have developed that place very different demands on a bike. I wouldn't expect my sub-30lb "all mountain" bike to survive a Josh Bender style huck just as I wouldn't expect to see Julian Absalon racing on it. I don't believe there is such a thing as "just" a mountain bike any more.

As for your wheel conundrum, you've learnt the hard way that you are harder on kit than the intended market for that kit. Get something stronger and pat yourself on the back for being hardcore 😉

(with all that said I do think drive trains are made of cheese)

...but I must admit the marketing people have invented some interesting sub-division of sub-divisions this year.

Over-mountain anyone?

All Mountain is really just that. If you live and ride your bikes in the mountains then its very obvious, if you ride on hills and trails that don't demand much from your bike then its not all 'mountain'.

All Mountain has nothing to do with jumping or tricks. Its riding your bike up and down them (and being pretty good at both with slant towards the down)

If you live and ride your bikes in the mountains then its very obvious

But that's just the point, it isn't obvious. Since when did the size of a hill have any bearing on the terrain you will encounter? Some of the most demanding riding I have done has been on the "hills and trails", yet I've ridden plenty of undemanding stuff in the mountains.

All Mountain has nothing to do with jumping or tricks

I agree with this tho'

according to the turner website.. there is a scale relating to how tough/heavy your bike needs to be to meet the demands of the riding you are likely to be doing..

1. XC
2. trail
3. all mountain
4. freeride
5. downhill

seems preeeety flipping self explanatory to me

Maybe none of them are mountain bikes. They all need a track under them and are useless for crossing the terrain you find on mountains without a ready made track. They're just [insert trendy market segment] track [/insert trendy market segment] bikes.

I want the cycling equivalent of one of those forestry tractors that just go wherever they want 🙂

Something that would let me go through stuff like this and peatbog etc

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Why would you want to slog over that when there are so many good tracks to ride? 😉

I think it's kind of like XXXC except that's more of a way of life.

wtf is a "marathon fully"

Seeing as everyone else has ignored this, I'll have a go:

I'd guess it's a marathon full suspension bike. As I understand it, marathon bikes are like XC race bikes but designed to be a little more forgiving when you're 20 hours or 200 miles into your marathon race. So they may have a little more travel or have slightly slacker geometry to your traditional XC race bike but are still focused on being pretty light and efficient to pedal. Not all brands make much the distinction, but some do. E.g. Cannondale's Scalpel is an XC race bike, but it's Rush is more of a marathon bike.

stilltortoise - Member
Why would you want to slog over that when there are so many good tracks to ride?

Why restrict yourself to tracks?

Being able to cycle off track = more freedom of movement.

Current mtbs are really dirt track bikes of varying degrees of gnarliness.

The true mountainbike has yet to be invented 🙂

[i]But that's just the point, it isn't obvious.[/i]

It is to me cos I ride All Mountain. There are those that ride XC in mountains...up fireroads and down fireroads or easy trails. A lot of that over here in europe and there are those that ride the mountains.

Not being smug or anything but its not a 'marketing' term, it really is obvious. You Can Ride The Whole Mountain. Up and Down.

See here

or here

or here
http://vimeo.com/12968847

mr plow - Member
XC in pyjamas

[img] [/img][

Where do you get those bikes with Fat tyres?

Is it just Wildfire that do them or are they more common place?

according to the turner website.. there is a scale relating to how tough/heavy your bike needs to be to meet the demands of the riding you are likely to be doing..

1. XC
2. trail
3. all mountain
4. freeride
5. downhill

seems preeeety flipping self explanatory to me

hmm... i'd put freeride bikes as needing to be heavier/stronger than downhill bikes.

freeride: big hucks and crashing.

Downhill: light is fast.

... just an opinion though.

LOL Scruff looks more like Andy Pandy

Yer Freeride should be at the top of the list
much heavier and stronger

All Mountain some thing like these bike set ups

[img] [/img]

Its marketing bollx.

For once I actually agree wth TJ.

it's 80110x in the same way that powder skis are the same as cross-country skis.

(they mostly are the same, but differ in lots of lovely important details, and detail, is everything)

For once I disagree with TJ

For once I disagree with TJ

Most of us - even the bumblies - are a lot more demanding on kit than we were 20 years ago. If I rode my old Spesh Hard Rock - steel, full rigid - the same way I do my modern bikes, it would fall to bits. Rims would buckle, frames would crack...

You couldn't ride a old rigid bike "as hard" as you ride a modern full sus bike all else being equal with the rider and trails. A modern bike will always allow you to stretch your skills further so you could not ride in the same way with you old bike.

A more gnar bike does not make you a more gnar rider but it allows you to ride in a seemingly more gnar way due to to the advantages allowed by the equipment.

This term mincing has nothing todo with the bike you ride, riding a ultra light xc bike does not mean you are mincing and conversely riding a DH machine does not mean your riding sick^rad.

Its a bit of marketing... The mtb industary is now huge and is based on branding and marketing. After all most of the UK kit is made in the same factories in the far east. Technology has improved so that now you can bike down the side ofa mountain in more comort and with less skill. I think you will find that 10 years ago, people were blasting down the same mountains we bike down now as fast and as hard but with low tech bikes (relative to now) with a lot more skill. I have seen guys ride the megavalanche on hardtails, enduro bikes, all mountain bikes, downhill bikes. All riding the same bit of land, same terrain....

you're into Confucius aren't you?

chakaping - Member

Haven't you got anything more important to get angry about?

no, not anything pressing....

the whole thing just pees me off a bit. what (and how) i ride with this FS isn't any different to how i'd be riding if i were using my Alpine. why do bits break? because they're crap, i think.

TBH, i'm really not a fan of FS. i think each new MTBer should ride HT for a good few years before jumping over the fence and sitting on a fully.

fullys seem to breed bad pratice. the number of guests that stay seated even on the downhill sections, it's crazy.

so all mountain is a form of biking a lot like xc mincing but in the mountains?

**** it, i'm still getting paid.

A more gnar bike does [s]not [/s]make you a more gnar rider [s]but [/s] because it allows you to ride in a [s]seemingly [/s]more gnar way due to to the advantages allowed by the equipment.

Fixed it for you

Aren't some of us being a bit Luddite here? Why can't someone go straight onto a fully and get all the advantages it gives? Should everyone start MTBing on a rigid clunker with caliper brakes and dodgy gears? What technology is OK to have on your first MTB?

Going off topic.... question was 'wtf is "all mountain"'

Its a marketing ploy to sell you another bike. btw i have a yeti 575 so it worked.

All Mountain (Bike) will be the new All Terrain Bike (aka ATB). What goes round comes around...

"Specialized"

You realise of course that is the iccorect speeling of the wurd?
Unless it was intentional: in which case was far too subtle for this board (but it made me LOL)

Actually I clearly spend too much time looking up Spesh stuff, as attempting to type "specialised" required several attempts to not hit the "zee" button 😉