Would I benefit from replacing the hardtail frame I love?

I would recommend keeping the bike you have if you love the way it rides.

Why change if there is nothing wrong with your current bike?

It's tricky tbh. I had a Trek Remedy 29, for years, did everything on it, when I smashed my arm a year back it was the first bike I rode when I got back on and it just felt so instantly familiar and perfect, it was such a boost to the whole recovery thing. But equally I've replaced it with a Rocketmax and though I really don't love that bike at all, it's a lot better. And that's the tricky bit, I'm still looking for something else because I ought to be able to find something that's as good a bike, that helps my rides the same way, but which I also love like I did the Trek.

But in the end I've had 3 bikes that I loved without any reservations and I've never regretted replacing any of them, it's just that it comes with complications.

Can you borrow a mates bike to see if there would be any benefit? My mate loved his custom steel hardtail, then rode my Cotic Soul for one trail and decided that he wanted to change!
Or a demo would equally work I guess

I'm similar to you I think, though never a serial swapper. Essentially had a Yeti Arc carbon hardtail for 10 years, though original frame warranty replaced 6 years ago. Still on the same forks, headset and stem, but the rest has been replaced once or twice.

It's not boost and doesn't have a dropper or internal routing for one, but I still enjoy riding it and it's only 23.5lbs. Feel it's getting close to time to change, but admittedly no real need and not sure what I would get, maybe a Stanton Sherpa Ti, but it would be a lot of money and I'm not sure I'd feel different enough.

What you need is a Norfolk bike - (your Sync) & a Wales bike -

Had a similar situation - serial frame swapping for years. Settled on a Soul 26", then the 27.5" was released and that was a bit of a no brainer. But after 7 years with the MK4 (non-boost, mainly) my head was turned by getting up to date standards and slightly revised geometry. It really pained me to let the MK4 go, and maybe I don't love the Mk5 quite so much but as Northwind says, it IS a better bike and riding it is a lot of fun. Maybe I'll bond with it over time, probably as standards move on and I want to change again (already somewhat given 275 is fast losing popularity).

But in the end I’ve had 3 bikes that I loved without any reservations and I’ve never regretted replacing any of them, it’s just that it comes with complications.

The problem I’ve had before is that I buy something that I don’t love, then sell it quickly and replace it. I just don’t have the time or money for that these days. I’d really need to narrow the odds of getting it right first time.

If you’ve got enough steerer tube why not try fitting a slackerizer from Superstar Components to slacken the head angle by 2 degrees and steepen the seat tube by 2 degrees.

£50 experiment a lot cheaper than a new bike, it would drop your bb height slightly and reduce your reach by a few mm, you could move the saddle back on the rails to compensate for that.

“I love the way it rides”

Why would you change anything then? Keep loving riding it! Change it when you find yourself disliking it more than you like it.

That’s been roughly my method for the 14 years since I returned to MTBing (I started as a kid in the ‘80s) and in those 14 years I’ve owned 4 hardtails and 2.5 full-sus bikes (once I got a full-sus I always had a hardtail at the same time - and the .5 was doing a secondhand swap from a medium to a large of the same model). Very happy with the current two (18 month old singlespeed hardtail, 5 year old e-full-sus).

Ive had about 3 or 4 hard tails that I have absolutely loved. A Cotic BFe was replaced by a Shan which was decidedly better imo - much less harsh and nicer geometry. Then I changed the Shan for a Vendetta, which is (astonishingly) even better. But each time, I felt that my current bike ws probably unbeatable and half expected to prefer the previous bike to my new bike.

so I can’t guarantee that you would like a new bike better. But I have to say, personally, the slacker head angle (complete with steeper seat tube) is a total game changer. I’d rather give up most of the other innovations on by bike rather than give up the wonderful new geometry.

however (last point), my local trails are very steep - both up and down. And that’s where the slack angles really come into play. If you are riding mainly in flatter terrain, I have a suspicion that you may not see such a improvement. I’m convinced you will notice a big difference, but whether it would be a game changer for you, it’s hard to say,

i think borrowing a bike, or renting one, or a demo day would be a wise investment.

You don't know what your missing till you know what your missing!

Demo any modern bike you can n see how it feels. I had a superlight for years, bought a modern hardtail and it's comparable performance was way ahead of the superlight, couldn't ride that again as it felt unsafe.

Demo any modern bike you can n see how it feels. I had a superlight for years, bought a modern hardtail and it’s comparable performance was way ahead of the superlight, couldn’t ride that again as it felt unsafe.

This.
More modern geometry is teh shizzles.

Thanks everyone. Some really helpful stuff. I think that what’s worrying me about newfangled geometry is the risk of losing the flickability of my current bike. Will I find it harder to ride and less satisfying in twiddly singletrack?

I might try slackening the current frame a bit and see how that goes first.

The trails haven't changed much in 10 years round here.

Keep the bike you love!

I changed my full suss for a longer slacker bike then had to change the hardtail as well as I didn't enjoy swapping between the two geometry's.

I've got a Voodoo Bizango which has similar geo to your Sync.

I've also got an on On One Big Dog which has modern, but not too aggressive geometry (66 HA).

The Big Dog is night and day better than the Bizango for general trail riding and the latter is now just used for commuting and canal paths.

I've also had proper slack hardtails (Ragley Blue Pig, and Stanton Switchback). And my full sus is very slack. These are obviously great at fast and rough stuff but are more enduro than trail.

is relatively flat (Norfolk)

I lol'd

The modern geometry is designed around climbing and descending and not that suited to Norfolk. I'd stick with what you've got. If you do change get something xc or even gravel or flat bar gravel if that's a thing.

is relatively flat (Norfolk)
I lol’d

let’s say we have to work hard for our elevation

Will I find it harder to ride and less satisfying in twiddly singletrack?

I find that the extreme of long, low, slack yes you do. Eldest enduro gnar sled Rocky Mountain is so LLS, such heavy and draggy tyres, such suspension travel that while it's a marvel on properly gnadgery terrain or at speed, it does not half flatten anything else.
My rather 'middle of the road' geometry 27.5 Marin is still a properly fun and clickable thing.

I'm running similar geo FS bike to the OP's hardtail.

There are places I think - yes, LLS would be better but equally that's 10% if that of my riding. As a result I'm doing nothing at this stage partly also because...

I thought that about the bike before this one too (26r hardtail). I rode that the other week and it felt totally alien and twitchy - I don't want to ride it again.

So if you change be prepared for anything else on the older style geo to feel horrible quickly.

If you go down the rabbit hole be prepared to get lost in the warren 🙂

I think that what’s worrying me about newfangled geometry is the risk of losing the flickability of my current bike.

Weirdly I've just slackerized a relatively modern bike (a Yeti ARC, don't tell them as it voids the warranty) with a 9point8 SlackR. It's gone from a 67 head angle (no, I don't know why they did that either) to about 65.2 it's made zero difference to how flickable it is in the twisty stuff.

Will I find it harder to ride and less satisfying in twiddly singletrack?

no, I don't think so although with bikes that have longer wheelbases (modern bikes are about 30-40mm longer than yours)  you do tend to need to move around a bit more to push the bike to get it to move on flatter terrain, but yours isn't going to be as extreme as that, If you slacken the head angle you maybe gain a few mm at most of wheel base.

There's other things you'll notice more if you buy a more modern bike, like the massive wheels, and wider bars and droppers.

I posted earlier in the thread talking about how fab newer geometry is. Someone above mentioned that this geometry may make flatter, twistier trails more boring. I’d just like to say that this is definitely not the case with my bikes. Yes, if I ride my Hex 160mm travel bike, it definitely flattens easier trails. But my Vendetta, with similar geometry, feels excellent whether steep or flat. So I don’t agree that modern geo make easy trails boring - at least not in my experience.

Ultimately, will you have more fun if you change frames?
I have just as much fun on my 26er HT with some cheap forks as I do on my big rig.. no idea what the HA is as I never bothered measuring it but it makes bike parks a lot more fun. That's me... you need to work out if its more fun and as said above ideally 2 bikes ??

Regarding geometry, "modern" geometries (i.e. slacker HA and steeper ST) came about from the downhill frame builders then the hardcore hardtails adopted it.  It only comes in to a tangible benefit when heading down steeper terrain.  The slacker head angle provides more stability at speed and the steeper ST puts you more over the pedals when climbing allowing you to make better use of the quads.

As you are riding in the flattest county in the UK I would suggest that with a slacker HA and steeper ST you would not see any of the benefits unless you go to a trail centre or to hillier trails.  It would still ride nicely but would not be optimised for the trials of Norfolk.

For riding in Norfolk I would suggest an XC bike.

When building frames for XC I would usually suggest a HA of between 67-70 degrees and a ST angle between 73-75 degrees.  With these figures the bike will remain nimble on the flat and allow for maximum power from your legs.  Most current XC race bikes have a 68/69 HA and 74/75 ST.

Unless you always ride within your comfort zone, the answer is almost certainly “yes”.

I loved my old full suspension bike, but when I replaced it at five years old, my new one is better and more confidence inspiring. It’s not just about angles, it’s also about frames being the right size for us, shorter stems and wider bars.

I had loads of fun on my old bike, but when I was tired or lost concentration it would try to kill me. My new one is much more stable, because it fits me better.

“I was tired or lost concentration it would try to kill me.”

I would not say “I love this bike!” about a bike like that!

My last bike was amazing when I was riding well, especially in the conditions it best suited (either steep, or manmade swoopy) but very cantankerous on rough but less steep trails unless I was absolutely on it! So it finally got replaced when I accepted that I just wasn’t that good a rider - but I did persevere for years until I changed bike.

Ha ha, the near death experiences helped remind me that I was alive.

Self harm for middle aged men.

In all seriousness, my old bike helped me make loads of progress compared to the previous one. My new one is doing the same. I hope in 5-10 years time my next one will be too.

Unless you feel like there are trails you simply cannot ride properly (but would like to) with your current bike I would just stick with what you have.

All things being equal, I've never found upgrading my bike made the trails I was already riding more fun, unless I was barely coping rather than actually 'riding' them.  The riding just became easier which I personally don't equate with being more fun.

Improving your bike will essentially downgrade the trails you currently ride, at which point you either reduce your skill level over time or you have to go out and find newer more gnarly trails.

But yeah, saying that, if you find you are carefully picking your way down the majority of your trails instead of actively riding them then a new frame might increase the enjoyment factor.  All I would say is, don't base your bike on the gnarliest trail in your area.  I would base it on the 80% trail as that still leaves you some trails to really challenge yourself on without making the majority boring.

Again, lots of useful input. I used to have a full-suss “going away bike”, but realised that I wasn’t brave enough to ride anything I wouldn’t be happy riding a hardtail down. I guess I’ve built what would previously have been described as a light trail bike (down country now I guess) in terms of travel, wheels and dropper, but at the racier end of geometry by modern standards. It suits me and my local trails perfectly, but I’m a bit nervous about the trip to bike park wales next month - particularly now that in my head it is far too steep and will therefore kill me. Despite the fact I’ve ridden it at various welsh trail centres over the years without any death.

I’ve contacted 9point8 to see whether they do a Slack-R that would replace my FSA no42 ACB headset. Assuming I’ve got a long enough steerer that will be a start.

Looking at direct replacements for the Sync, none of the Ti hardtails I’ve seen so far appear to be as nicely finished. Everything seems to be more like my old Soda in that they’re gussetted rather than using custom profiled tubes?

Hey - I resemble that.

I had a DeKerf Generation for aaaaages (I think 13 years, all told) and it had always been my go-to bike, even though I often had a longish travel FS bike on the go. Think I went through four pairs of forks (Judy, Bomber, Project 2 and Reba) and had it converted from canti to disc. Lovely, lovely bike.

I got properly into singlespeeding and bought a Singular Hummingbird, which I ended up spending more time on than the DeKerf. That Singular was replaced by the first of many 29ers, and I'm now on a Specialized Fuse for a hardtail.

I think the thing is you end up hankering after your regular ride because you know exactly how it will respond in different situations, and maybe a new bike won't behave the same. In fact, it probably will.

What I do know from recently switching from a 2014 Kona Process to a 2023 Gen 5 Trek Fuel Ex is that it will make a massive difference - you probably just don't realise it at the moment. The first thing I've noticed is less fatigue and more speed - I get to the bottom of a climb feeling a lot fresher, and 'round here it's all short sharp climbs and descents. The trails round where I am have changed a lot over the last 20 odd years - bikes and riding have progressed.

Start with the Slack-r and see how you get on. As you say, you've not carked it in Wales; I've had fun day there on a 29er hardtail with 100mm forks and I'm here to tell the tale. Equally, I've ridden it on bikes with more travel and had a ball. Your bike sounds like a really sweet set up. It'll carry on giving you plenty of fun for years and years as it is. Enjoy it!

Apologies if it's my fault for highlighting how old and dated the Geometry is on the Sync!

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/which-29er-hardtail-frame/page/2/#post-12933510

I'll stand by what I say though, but caveat that if you're happy with it and still fits the bill for your riding, then why change it?!?! Mine was a really nice bike, but times move on... But not everyones riding does. All depends on the use case. For riding in Norfolk, well a gravel bike would be far more suitable than a modern geo MTB which would flatten the already flat terrain and make it incredibly boring... Just so happens that your Sync happens to basically have the geometry of a modern Gravel Bike, but with bigger tyre clearances! Win/win for riding in Norfolk I'd say...

But yeah... Next time you go to Wales. Hire something modern! It'll be a game changer...

I’m a bit nervous about the trip to bike park wales next month – particularly now that in my head it is far too steep and will therefore kill me

Get a rental bike.  Went with some friends in April.  A couple of people with more xc bikes got a hire bike.  If you're going all the way from Norfolk it's worth it to enjoy the day more.

I found my 120mm FS was fine (blues and easier reds).  A 120mm hardtail of similar geo would be ok on the blues but you'd have more fun and flexibility on one of their rentals.

I am a serial bike horder. I have a sizable collection of 11 bikes from different eras of mountain biking and they all get ridden, from a 1996 Giant MCM Team hardtail, to to a 2019 Yeti SB5 Lunch Ride with 170mm forks. They all get taken out on the world class trails here in Rotorua.

Out of all this, there doesn't seem to be one bike that is clearly 'better' overall. They just ride diferently. I ride the same trails over and over again and have subtly different experiences with each bike. Some days it's nice to take out my 2007 Giant Trance Advanced with 115mm rear travel and its >70 degree head angle, others it's great to be on my 2012 Orange Five, with 160mm forks and a slacker head tube angle. (I actually have no idea what the head angles on my bikes even are)

The funny thing is, no one bike is particularly faster than any of the others. We have a very fast 8 minute descent here and according to GPS, my 2012 Yeti ASR5c was within 10 seconds of the time of my 2019 SB5 with carbon 27.5 wheels, both within 50 seconds of the all time fastest segment time on Strava. And which bike was I having more fun on? I coudn't honestly say. Each bike just offers a different experience.

My two pence worth is that I woudn't get too hung up on which bike you 'need', or get too hung up on headtube angles, or which bike you think will make you faster or enjoy the trail more. In my experience, none of this really seems to matter all that much.

My second piece of advice is, never sell any bike that you like riding, ever.

No, Mboy, not your fault. It’s just that I opened the wormhole when I allowed myself to read MTB websites and mags again.

I’ve been having a good look at the Sonder Signal Ti, and will hopefully sit on one when I’m in Keswick later today. I’ve hired a Mega today at Whinlatter, which I expect will be a bit of an eye opener - albeit in the knowledge that it would be horrid to ride back home. I may hire something in Wales, but the friend I’ll be with is bringing his late Soul, so don’t want to be too over biked compared to him (although he’s a better rider). It’s a pity that the hardtails are hire centres are always so low budget compared to the full-sussers.

I’ve been having a good look at the Sonder Signal Ti, and will hopefully sit on one when I’m in Keswick later today.

Also owned one of these (well, the Titus Zestar, same frame)... Didn't like the geometry cos the BB is quite a bit higher than quoted... Despite the HA being 5deg slacker, I would have felt more confident on my old Sync!

My second piece of advice is, never sell any bike that you like riding, ever.

The "ever" bit might be a little extreme, times change and all... But if still like riding it now, and it suits what you ride (which it will do in Norfolk), then probably just hang on to it... I really liked my Sync, but at the time was starting to ride bigger stuff and more aggressively, I moved it on to make way for a full sus (original Evil Following) but had I continued to have been doing more XC stuff, I'd have gladly kept it, especially as 1x drivetrains were now the norm...

So, a quick update. I ordered the slack-r and necessary low stack stem to slacken my bike before BPW, but although the slack-r arrived from Canada in a few days the bits I ordered from Europe took weeks so I didn’t have time to fit them before Wales.

I spent Friday uplifting with my unmodified hardtail (one of only three I saw all day) and having an absolute blast on the blue flow trails, which it turns out suited the bike perfectly and made me feel like a riding god into the bargain (if in my own head alone). I can’t tell you how much fun it was.

On Saturday we’d left it too late to book uplift so hired Trek Rail e-bikes with 160/170 travel and weighing three times as much as my Sync. Again, these were great fun. Hilarious mullering the climes and surprising (to me) manoeuvrable on the trails.

Turns out I was 12 seconds faster down Sixtapod on the electric enduro than I was on the xc hardtail, so not a huge difference really. Felt equally as knackered at the end of the day on both and really enjoyed the experience.

The upshot is that I’m still going to slacken the bike a bit, but it’s still the frame for me on the trails I enjoy riding. If I was a tech red and blacks kind of guy then things would certainly be different. And I now understand why people like e-bikes too.

There's two ancient proverbs at play here.

"It's not the bike it's the rider"
"They who have most fun, win"

(Cue heretic claims.... 😜 )

(Cue heretic claims…. 😜 )

The rider was average at best, but the trails were very flattering.

I'm in a similar quandary.

For away days and big terrain I have a full suss - not a crazy 180 rig or anything like that, but definitely in the longer-lower-slacker mould.

For local duties I have a shorter, boxier Dartmoor Primal. I really like it and I can muck about when riding it - making it feel very engaging. I'm tempted to opt for a Ragley Mmmbop to replace it - probably way more capable (whatever that means), but the Primal is such a lot of fun to ride...

I'll probably keep the Primal but the Mmmbop keeps flitting into my mind.