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Or to rephrase the question who runs tubes on their gravel bike ?
I don't even run tubes on my commuter
I run tubes in mine .
Yes. I used to have tubes on my crosser, now I don't but don't consider it essential
Well gravel now is basically ATB ca. 1989 but with drop bars.
Got tubes in my CX/Gravel/Adventure/EnduralGrail (or whatever you want to call it) bike.
Got tubes in my HT too. And FS. And Roadbike.
I run tubes on my drop-bar ATB 29er gravel/adventure bikepacking all-road monstercross touring bike. Bike still works with tubes. It came with tubes so I just carried on using tubes. I suppose the big Q is - will the trails come alive by my converting to tubeless?
* edit: laughing at andytherocketeer's synchro/cross-posted genre-babel.
#itsabike
I still don't really understand how gravel/Adventure is a "thing"
I was running tubes (and tough tyres) when I used 25c tyres but have gone tubeless now running bigger tyres. But then I was riding gravel before tubeless was available.
Mrs Kilo has tubes in her cx bike at the moment, a few wheel and tyre issues have made it that way , previously tubeless. She doesn’t puncture much and it hasn’t made any difference
I still don’t really understand how gravel/Adventure is a “thing”
Don't worry about it, there will be lots of things you don't understand. Don't put pressure on yourself thinking you have to understand everything.
Well gravel now is basically ATB ca. 1989 but with drop bars.
I'd say 1989 to pretty much the early 2000's, when gnaaaaaarification really started to kick in, but, yup.
We've managed with tubes for for nearly 2 centuries. I'm not sure I understand the question.
Still running tubes on my 'gravel bike'. Only really pinch flatted on the Dirty Reiver (every year..) Anywhere else it's fine.
I have tubes with WTB nano 40c wired tyres. Never had a puncture. That includes 3 x Dirty Reiver. Pump'm up hard, end of problem!
Yes. It was called roughstuff touring from at least as far back as my dad's youth (50s or so), and still is by some CTC types that like to moan about toe overlap and stuff.
Edit - I should point out that I've thought of joining the rough stuff fellowship, if I had the time!
Still tubes here. Nothing against tubeless, just the way it's worked out. Very few punctures and can run low enough pressures if i like, so apart from the possibly better rolling and slightly lighter weight, i've not felt the need to change.
Round here, nope. It’s got to the point where it’s a proper sucking of teeth to go out with someone in the group with tubes on the gnarmac/cx bikes. The bikes are so capable and fun it’s guaranteed you’ll be hitting roots and rocks hard enough to snakebite.
I use tubes because I switch tyres from knobbly to slick a lot and tubless looks like a right faff.
I even race cross on tubes, I'm not good enough for it to make a jot of differnce.
Mainly because I just haven't got around to tubelessing it yet though.
Well gravel now is basically ATB ca. 1989 but with drop bars.
Drop bars, bigger wheels and different geometry. Rigid tho, you got that bit right.
Tubes on gravel and road bikes, tubeless on MTBs here.
Another one on tubes, just can't be bothered with the cost/faff of going tubeless, especially as my gravel bike doubles as my CX bike so I'm swapping tyres all the time. Latex tubes and sensible pressures does the job for me, if I went any lower for CX racing I think I'd be folding tyres on corners anyway, and since my gravel/cx bike is also my MTB, if I was banging roots and rocks I'd put some MTB tyres on 😉
My first adventure/gravel/commuter on the Cycle to Work scheme had tubes. I used to ride, like, "adventure" routes home on it in the summer, so I don't think there's a correlation.
All of my bikes have tubeless now, but I don't actually do a lot of that type of riding, funnily enough.
I thought Gravel/Adventure looking awfully like the "Cycle Touring" we did back in the 70's when we took our robust road bikes fitted with panniers and 27x11/4 inch tyres down the roads and tracks across the country?
I currently have one of each on my own Gravel bike, when I get round to sorting the front out again though it will fully toooblussed again...
I don't actually think the method of tyre inflation really matters for any sub-niche of bicycle...
If you really want to hear inciteful debate on gravel bikes and vaguely related things I dare you to watch one of the 'path less pedalled' videos on YouTube, if you can make it to the end without grinding your teeth to dust I'd be impressed... Gravel has hit "peak hipster" in the States now it seems...
I thought Gravel/Adventure looking awfully like the “Cycle Touring” we did back in the 70’s when we took our robust road bikes fitted with panniers and 27×11/4 inch tyres down the roads and tracks across the country?
Adventure is cycle touring yes, but gravel is not just adventure. I wouldn't want to use a Dawes Galaxy for the 1-2 hour fast rides I do on gravel.
I wouldn’t want to use a Dawes Galaxy for the 1-2 hour fast rides I do on gravel.
Ohh I don't know. I had a 1980'ish CB Super Dalesman (a Dawes in a posher paintjob), stuck some knobbly tyres on it and despite the frame being heavy enough to effect the moons orbit it was still pretty handy.
Having said that I did once go exploring the Peak on an old 531 road bike with 21c tyres. Punctured twice descending the little climb to the road after the beast and did a big loop of the forestry roads. The steerer snapped on Broomhill the next day!
I still don’t really understand how gravel/Adventure is a “thing”
I can do fast on smooth stuff that my road bike doesn't like and my xc bike is overkill for. But keep trolling
Still running tubes as I need to get some tape and fluid for my grail, running slightly higher pressure but never went that soft on the mtb either
Hmm. I reckon gravel bares little resemblance to 80's MTBing. For many of us mountain biking hasn't really changed since the mid 80's. We ride in the woods, on paths and tracks and in the mountains. About the only thing that has changed is that we go down hill faster and things break more often. But the latter is the same with all cycling .
Gravel isn't that far removed from road riding without the cars. Of course I am using the word gravel properly , not meaning easy off road riding. That's rough stuff or mountain biking.
As to tubeless being important. Not in the slightest.
Still tubes here, but trying the Vaya with cheap 650b wheels at the mo to see how it feels..
And to be fair, I like it, so will be getting some bling wheels built up.
They will be tubeless..
descending the little climb
electric brae?
Of course I am using the word gravel properly , not meaning easy off road riding. That’s rough stuff or mountain biking.
Don't be precious
When I tubelessed my partners gravel/90s-xc/hybrid/all-road bike she just said 'wow, what did you do to it?' the next time we went out. She's a fair bit faster now, certainly not entirely due to halving her tyre pressures, but it plays a role for sure
Always reassuring to see a thread about gravel bikes has the 'I used to go gravel biking in the 1920's it's nothing new' bores on it.
Anyway, back to the OP: I've used tubes on my tripster and am running tubeless at the moment. There's a difference for sure, but nothing that would make me think differently about what kind of terrain to ride. It just feels a bit nicer with tubeless is all.
There’s a difference for sure, but nothing that would make me think differently about what kind of terrain to ride. It just feels a bit nicer with tubeless is all.
You clearly don't get many punctures. When I was running tubes I had to go to super tough tyres to avoid flats from the very sharp bits of broken flint. Tubeless I never get a problem,
The actual innovation isn't tubeless, it's having sealant in the air space. So the slightly heavier but much less faff in the setting up or trailside repair is to have sealant in the tube. Still get a lot fewer punctures, but never have a picture of Badger making a mess of his patio.
Jobst Brandt would like a word from beyond the grave...
When I tubelessed my partners gravel/90s-xc/hybrid/all-road bike she just said ‘wow, what did you do to it?’
Really? Whenever i've converted a bike to tubeless my main thought afterwards was "why did i bother?"
@mike I was referring to the name/market not the activity. it's certainly nothing new in my lifetime and I have nothing against folk who do it.
Please stop jumping on my comments like some social justice warrior.
Please stop jumping on my comments like some social justice warrior.
Well turn the aggression down a few clicks in most of your posts 😉 love it when somebody calls you a social justice warrior quite a compliment to say you think of how ho make other people's lives better
My Arkose will being going tubeless as soon as I can get around to it - I used to pinch puncture with regularity BITD on a rigid mtb so this innovation is a welcome one.
I can do fast on smooth stuff that my road bike doesn’t like and my xc bike is overkill for. But keep trolling
Hes not trolling, you’re just too sensitive to the true accusation that you, amongst other people, have fallen for yet another niche bike type just to get you to spend more money. Something else had to come along after everyone had fallen for the 27.5 nonsense.
Tube in the front but tubeless in the rear and no punctures riding in the Lakes for a year including bike packing.
Which brings me on to this a must do gravel/adventure beard stroking ride in the Lakes part of the www.southlakesbikefest.com
do it in a oner or if you fancy a night under the stars
https://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=bxhaqsvbbzjqvruq
I still don’t really understand how gravel/Adventure is a “thing”
It's been a useful "new" niche to capture all those CX topics that had nothing to do with Cyclocross.
Tubeless? The new wheels and tyres are. Easy set up, took little longer than fitting a tube.
You clearly don’t get many punctures. When I was running tubes I had to go to super tough tyres to avoid flats from the very sharp bits of broken flint. Tubeless I never get a problem,
@kerley the reason I was using tubes was due to punctures in my tubeless setup that didn't seal.
I can do fast on smooth stuff that my road bike doesn’t like and my xc bike is overkill for. But keep trolling
I genuinely am not sure what “gravel” or “gnarmac” is. It’s not trolling to say so.
I came and and read the thread to see if I could find out (I am honestly interested) but either there a lot of different names for the same thing, or the people that “do it” haven’t agreed what is yet either 🤭
@nealglover it's easy mountain biking, but the bike isn't a PITA to ride on the road too
Hes not trolling, you’re just too sensitive to the true accusation that you, amongst other people, have fallen for yet another niche bike type just to get you to spend more money.
A "bit of everything" bike is the opposite of niche.
Run tubeless on my road and mountain bikes but not the cx/gravel machine. Its multi purpose and. I run it with road, gravel and cx tyres so until I get 2 new sets of wheels it'll be run with tubes.
Never had a puncture off road on it, however I run pretty high pressure as it gets used on road even with the gravel wheels.
Re tubeless in general, I cant see a massive benefit. Its pretty much the last upgrade id make to a bike, as changing tyres is much more of a hassle
I got a snake bite on my first ever demo cx experience.
Just ordered two CX/gravel bikes and they both came tubeless.
I think people can be a bit selectively dense when their 'new marketting buzzword' knee jerk reaction kicks in.
If people didn't refine bikes into niches and then market them, we'd all just be riding 'bikes'. Thankfully someone noticed that fatter tyres and wider bars were better for off road and thus the first niche was created.
Today, all that has happened is that someone noticed people were using CX bikes for things other than 1hr sprints round muddy fields, and took the best bits of a CX bike and combined them with the best bits of a road bike.
I'll guarantee that absolutely nobody, ever, had piled all their existing bikes onto a pyre and set fire to them as they weren't 'gravel', they'll just compare a new gravel bike to a new CX bike to a new road bike and decide which is best for their needs.
Is that really so hard to grasp? 😉
it’s easy mountain biking, but the bike isn’t a PITA to ride on the road too
The perfect description
I think people can be a bit selectively dense when their ‘new marketting buzzword’ knee jerk reaction kicks in.
Not sure if that’s aimed at me?
But if it is I haven’t had any type of “knee jerk reaction”
i just don’t know what the differences are between a Gravel bike, adventure bike, CX bike and gnarmac bike. They are all terms I see on here.
Often lumped together like “....my Gravel/CX Bike” as rone said above. So it’s hardly straightforward is it ?
So actually, yes. It is quite hard to grasp. 👍
Was tubed on my first 2 gravel rides and got a rear puncture on both rided. Switched to tubeless on rear and haven't had one I since. Just changed the front to tubeless so I can run lower pressures.
@13thfloormonk.
I agree consumers are incredibly selectively dense when it comes to parting with their pennies when an attractive "new marketing buzzword" comes along
Gravel riding as a category is in actual fact an older style of riding than mountainbiking that the cycle industry have recently given a clever marketing makeover to it to sell a lot of new bikes of a style that were already available. Selling "lifestyle" accessories has become easier than ever now we live in fairly fake social media based bubbles.
Here's what "gravel" actually is
My nana had paths of it around the wooden framed rose beds in her front garden in the 70s and it was absolutely rubbish to ride any bike on back then and still is.
Marketing buzzwords are hardly a new ploy from the cycle industry.
No one rides "all mountain" (once the cooler buzz-term for XC) anymore because the marketing people have come up with the cooler distinctions we now have "trail" and "Enduro". They're all just riding up and down hills off road though.
TBH the majority of road bikes are probably more niche than a graaaavel bike which can take a range of tyre sizes and or wheel sizes depending on the terrain/potholes in your road.
Anyway Gravel bikes passé aero gravels where it’s at now 🙂
Tubless good for commuting and wheels with tyres that you know that changing on the side of the road just isn’t going to happen cos they’re tighter than a nets chuff and you remember taking an hour getting them on in the first place.
You could probably argue that actually the victims of marketing are all those people over the years who bought a ‘Mountain Bike’ when in reality all they needed was a road bike that could take wide tyres.
I don't mind the marketing or the industry offering stuff up. It's part of keeping everything what it is, and has the bonus of improving and innovating.
You can always select what you want to be part of.
The marketing is just away of communicating what is available.
I didn't get the differences at all so I went out and tested all the different types of bikes and you know what they all rode differently! Not really a suprise but there was substance behind the marketing. I discovered I didn't really want a gravel bike as it felt too close to a hard tail, and not as sharp as pure CX.
I found that the specialized Diverge felt the best to me, and different enough from from the Whyte Glencoe I thought I'd like the most.
So now I'm kind of open to the differences.
I run tubes on all my bikes, and always have. I've never even been tempted to go tubeless, including on my gravel bike,
So the slightly heavier but much less faff in the setting up or trailside repair is to have sealant in the tube. Still get a lot fewer punctures, but never have a picture of Badger making a mess of his patio.
Sealant in a tube simply does not work as well as sealant in a tubeless tyre. The tube is softer and doesn't hold it's shape the almost flat.
As for tubeless being messy, that is either user error or trying to bodge it. Use a tubeless rime and a tubeless tyre and it will inflate as easily as a tubed tyre.
Gravel riding as a category is in actual fact an older style of riding than mountainbiking that the cycle industry have recently given a clever marketing makeover to it to sell a lot of new bikes of a style that were already available.
Not the case. A fairly light road bike that can take 40c or bigger tyres is new and makes a lot of sense for riding on mixed surfaces. Yes people road mixed surfaces before mountain biking (I road mixed surfaces on a track bike with 23c tyres until earlier this year) but the gravel style bike is a very good bike for it.
For anything but racing a gravel bike would be a better purchase than a road bike for majority of people (even if riding 100% on road) so people buying road bikes (which have been a thing for 60+ years) are maybe the dense ones today.
Gravel bikes are just bikes for riding...if you dont understand what its for you probably dont want one so dont worry about it.
I like mine, I ride it more than my other bikes.
Hmm. I reckon gravel bares little resemblance to 80’s MTBing. For many of us mountain biking hasn’t really changed since the mid 80’s. We ride in the woods, on paths and tracks and in the mountains. About the only thing that has changed is that we go down hill faster and things break more often. But the latter is the same with all cycling .
Gravel isn’t that far removed from road riding without the cars. Of course I am using the word gravel properly , not meaning easy off road riding. That’s rough stuff or mountain biking.
As to tubeless being important. Not in the slightest.
This +1
I still ride the Borrowdale bash and Garburn pass the same routes as is 1994 on my rigid Orange.
Just I can ride faster and further now on my suspension bike, or I would do if I wasn't 25 years older.
I wouldn't pick my "gravel" bike for either of those rides. Maybe if it had flat bars, drops just aren't suited to technical terrain.
It's a valid point. My original Croix de Fer and Day One SS CX were both put away every hedge-cutting season for years, plus were a PITA in an area full of tiny arrowhead flints. Tubeless solved 98% of that and I use a fat tyre drop bar bike a lot more because of it - perhaps the biggest improvement in parts on the bike.
It's amusing how attaching the 'gravel' term causes so many accusations of marketing victims, nichemongering etc. Why defensive, why GAS, why should anyone justify their bike choice anyway?
'Gravel grinding' is old. 'Gravel' is the tag that's got used for bikes that have become popular through rider demand more than marketing. Genesis built a brand in part around a 'gravel'ish bike before any of us knew the term, that bike sold well through demand, not marketing. This genre's popular because people see a value in a fatter tyre on a bike that's prediminantly used on the road and the ability to get off the road for shortcuts, skipping an A-road and replacing it with a byway, or just riding a wide open track side by side chatting for a while w/o the bother of traffic, is appreciated.
As said above and I've been thinking for a long time, for most riders who are on the road most of the time but don't race, a road bike could be seen as an odd choice. Compromises in comfort and ability or use range for speed gains that often are neutralised by that lack of comfort or bad road surfaces. But if you want a race bike, all good. Ride what you like.
I predominantly mountain bike, so bought a bike to suit the stuff I mostly do. I also ride to work and when the weather and trails are truly awful mid winter I like to ride the mucky little lanes and forest roads, so I bought a bike for that too. It happens to have drop bars, disc brakes and big tyres. I'm happy, but it can be quite hard to explain it to non-cyclists. 🙂
As for tubeless, I run them on my mtb and wouldn't go back. One ride stopped because of a puncture in over 2 years. Used to regularly get pinch flats before that. Don't bother with the other bike.
I suspect if all those people who have difficulty understanding "gravel" bikes came and lived in the Highlands, they would quickly find a use for one.
There's thousands of miles of tracks that take you into great places that are ho-hum for a mtb and if ridden on a road bike beat you up and/or potentially damage the bike or mean too much hike a bike. And as they usually end up on the other side of a mountain there may be a fair bit of road to connect up, and that's a misery on an mtb.
I'm sure scotroutes could point us to many challenging routes best suited to a gravel bike.
I'll throw in the Corrieyairack. I did it on a road bike many years ago. There was a lot of carrying the bike to protect the rims and tyres.
With this bike built for gravel, it's just right, and the long tarmac sections to get to it are no problem.
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geex's definition of gravel is a very urban one. It's just one version, and well maintained at that.
Just as there's many different types of snow for fatbikes, there's plenty different gravel surfaces and some of them are pretty rough.
I suspect if all those people who have difficulty understanding “gravel” bikes came and lived in the Highlands, they would quickly find a use for one.
Yep, similar situation where I live. The New Forest has miles of fire roads which are perfect for a gravel bike while also able to ride the single track. A mountain bike is of use for about 5% of my ride.
I think we all know that the roads surfaces are getting worse and with another winter will be in a terrible state. Some of our minor roads and lanes already look like gravel roads.
I ride a TCR and sometimes think the roads are so rough in places that I am not doing the bike much good at all. So I started to look at the gravel bike thing. I've had a couple of cross bikes as winter bikes and found them great off road but a bit numb as a road bike. Maybe a gravel bike is the answer.
There doesn't seem to be much difference between gravel/adventure and endurance bikes now. Big tyres and tubeless are now the thing. Look at the Trek Domane and Checkpoint very similar.
I've had my Arkose for a handful of weeks and in the first 2 miles I flatted both (tubed) tyres. Tubeless as soon as I got back home!
As far as the point of it goes, it turns what would be dull tracks on an mtb to being fun as you're going much faster. I can cover more distance so I'm exploring more. And for the emergency use of road it's as quick as my (now sold) road bike. It can handle reasonable trails too!!
I'm very much a convert!
Always reassuring to see a thread about gravel bikes has the ‘I used to go gravel biking in the 1920’s it’s nothing new’ bores on it.
That was all there was back then.
Tubes.
The New Forest has miles of fire roads which are perfect for a gravel bike while also able to ride the single track.
Funny, I thought that the other day. Perfect place for a gravel bike.
Funny, I thought that the other day. Perfect place for a gravel bike.
It surprises me the amount of people who ride road bikes around the forest roads without being tempted as they pass all of the entrances to fire roads. Also gets you away from all the 50mph close pass drivers.
mariner
That was all there was back then.
Indeed. 🙂
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Depends on what you like riding but tubeless on the CX bike is the biggest difference maker on any bike, IME (and ironically the last one I got round to switching on), in terms of punctures. Putting a 32 tyre and tube over the rocks and roots and punctures are in the post.
Less of a big deal over the farm tracks, but it's good to know you can work in a technical section to your route and actually ride it as you feel, rather than being cautious trying not to puncture on tubes.
Narrow tyres (by which I mean anything less than 2 inches) + low pressures + going fast over rocks/pebbles = pinch punctures. Definitely with tubes, but also sometimes with tubeless.
I observed so may people fixing punctures on the fast downhills at the Dirty Reiver - I can't help feeling that wider tyres and more pressure is the actual solution rather than obsessing about tubeless or not.