[Closed] Word of warning of the quality and warranty of On-One Carbon Race 29-frames

[i]Yep, just as soon as I finish pulling the legs of wwaswas.[/i]

In traditional stw 'if I keep posting long enough the others will give up and then I've [i]won[/i]' style, you win.

I still don't understand why you think on-one have done anything wrong during the design or manufacture of their frames that wouldn't equally be true for every other company using the same factories but I guess I'll have to live not knowing.

frank. You make a good point. I don't think Hora's been blamed yet. It's almost assumed though.

I need the bit that the spring engages in Brant, the 2nd link you posted. I've ordered now anyway but thanks for the reply. I think duckamn said the adjuster?

[i]I assume Hora comes to the party at some point.[/i]

He did but nobody understood what the **** he was on about so he was ignored. He went away quickly once he realised he wasn't the centre of attention.

The op may have been unlucky enough to receive 2 lemons,
But was treated poorly in my view, and if you treat customers poorly they become unhappy customers and then not customers at all.

All companies can have fantastic customer service when things go well and they are taking your money,
It's when the shit hits the fan you find the true mark of a company.

Slightly OT but am I the only one that is now worried about getting on a flight.......carbon fibre not coping with big temperature variations......like ground to 35,000 feet. Eek! 😉 On reflection, it's ok folks, you can probably relax!

But I did see his point, and have started movements within our CS department to look at how we can better offer people things as a goodwill gesture when parts fail out of warranty.

So rather than fixing your slightly ropey customer service approach and also trying to make this customer at least a little happier, you've decided to not make any effort. I work in a business which relies on good CS and if the guy who runs support for me treated customers like that, he'd not be running that team for me for very long. If you've reached out with a better offer on a frame and he's said no that's fair enough but for me, customer service means making that hard call and trying to fix that relationship even if you're pretty sure it's broken.

I've had issues with PX/OO before which they've made good but this makes me think twice about future orders. Sorry.

hello all - quite a thread this one! Actually, its sunny outside just now - think I'll get me bike out 🙂

When you run a business you HAVE to act professionally, bite your tongue, and think about the greater things going on around you.

Remove the reactive man from the business to preserve a crisp clean image to the customer. Failing to do so DOES CAUSE (and as shown here HAS ALREADY DONE) damage. There are people here saying they'll no longer use this company.

Brant, if I were you I'd sort the original guy's frame out. Saying "We have taken his example to improve our processes in future" isn't good enough. This shows you don't care about this customer. And remember, any customer can be won back if treated well.

I'm not an on-one fan but Shibboleth seems way off track accusing on-one of shit QC on the basis of one persons experience and ZERO evidence from on-one or any other manufacturer for comparison

Off track? If two frames fail in a similar way but in different places, that would indicate poor quality control. I'm guessing that On-One sold possibly hundreds of this frame - not thousands.

My main concern is the arrogant, dismissive and childish way Brant has conducted himself in the aftermath.

As for trying to blame the fact that the guy lives in Finland, that's completely ridiculous! If a manufacturer used a resin that failed in normal operating temperatures (and no matter how cold Finland gets, they would still be deemed potentially normal operating temperatures!!) then the product would be even worse quality than I'm giving it credit for.

Does Brant supply a warning not to use the frame below a certain temperature or above another?

The op may have been unlucky enough to receive 2 lemons,

That would explain why he is not zest pleased, and somewhat bitter about the whole situation.

I don't think I've ever leapt to Brant's defence before (and I'm pretty sure he doesn't need it) but I thought his responses on here (and to the original warranty claim) have been quite reasonable.

If taken out of context by a person with a chip on his shoulder, they may seem otherwise. But that's not Brant's fault.

[i]That would explain why he is not zest pleased, and somewhat bitter about the whole situation. [/i]

Are you taking the pith?

[i]I don't think I've ever leapt to Brant's defence before (and I'm pretty sure he doesn't need it) but I thought his responses on here (and to the original warranty claim) have been quite reasonable.[/i]

Really? Your job doesn't involve dealing with customers does it?

So we have chips and lemons, there's something a bit fishy about this now.

that would indicate poor quality control.

No, it COULD indicate that. Important difference.

That was why I asked if it was a common problem. If the OP is the only person to have had the problem and has had it happen twice then there's a realistic possibility that something he's doing is causing it, be it temperatures, riding style or any other factor.

That doesn't necessarily make it his fault and the customer service should still be better but the point is that you don't have the information to make your statement, only an assumption based on what I'm guessing (hoping!) is your own experience.

Shibboleth what bait are you using on that rod ??? Your reeling them in good style 😆

some people will squeeze a pun out of any situation.

Brant, if I were you I'd sort the original guy's frame out. Saying "We have taken his example to improve our processes in future" isn't good enough. This shows you don't care about this customer. And remember, any customer can be won back if treated well.

Of course we do care about our customers, but the OP had already made it quite (abruptly!) clear that he didn't want to deal with us any more.

If the OP wants to email me, then my email is in my profile and I'm more than happy to discuss goodwill options open to him, as I would with anyone who has had a product fail outside it's warranty period.

Your job doesn't involve dealing with customers does it?

Yes it does. All the time. My living depends on it.

[i]Of course we do care about our customers, but the OP had already made it quite (abruptly!) clear that he didn't want to deal with us any more.[/i]

But to be fair Brant and as has already been said he didn't have a clue who you are. Had you started your post with 'hi its Brant from On One, please email me on xxx and we can sort something out for you' then this wouldn't have gone to [s]7[/s] at least 8 pages of Planet x/On One being slated on the internet that's now here forever.

If the OP is the only person to have had the problem and has had it happen twice then there's a realistic possibility that something he's doing is causing it, be it temperatures, riding style or any other factor.

That's one helluva freakin riding style that makes resin vanish at the seatpost/toptube junction and pops a BB shell liner out... 🙄

Shibboleth I think you'll need to have a look at the materials properties of how epoxies can perform in sub zero temp with high stress cycles before making fab sweeping statements.. would a carbon race bike be expected to be used and stored in sub zero conditons on a regualr basis..why then would that be considersd normal temps...xc racing tends not to happen in snow...like when its cold fir instance. ..

would a carbon race bike be expected to be used and stored in sub zero conditons on a regualr basis..why then would that be considersd normal temps...xc racing tends not to happen in snow...like when its cold fir instance. ..

Of course it would. Did you notice any teams pulling out of last year's Milan-San Remo on the basis that the frames might fail???

why then would that be considersd normal temps...xc racing tends not to happen in snow...like when its cold fir instance. .

Just looked on the on-one website. They don't have any guidelines on what temps their carbon frames should be used in that I can find

[i]why then would that be considersd normal temps...xc racing tends not to happen in snow...like when its cold fir instance. .[/i]

You're seriously suggesting that carbon bike frames shouldn't be ridden when it's cold?

Of course we do care about our customers, but the OP had already made it quite (abruptly!) clear that he didn't want to deal with us any more.

Because you made him a derisory offer. If you contact him with a better one, then who knows, he might just post back here and we can all see your company in a better light.

tazzymtb - Member

Shibboleth I think you'll need to have a look at the materials properties of how epoxies can perform in sub zero temp with high stress cycles before making fab sweeping statements.. would a carbon race bike be expected to be used and stored in sub zero conditons on a regualr basis.

If On One had specific restrictions on usage, it's up to them to tell the customer- whether it be temperature or weight or being the only bike company in the world you're not allowed to put helicopter tape on. Oh, hang on, wait...

Sanny - Member
Slightly OT but am I the only one that is now worried about getting on a flight.......carbon fibre not coping with big temperature variations......like ground to 35,000 feet. Eek!

That depends are on one making planes now. .D

A little uncalled for .
Ops bike failed, on one choose to save a few quid and not help as they did not have to.
Op feels aggrieved , vents spleen. Toys come out of the pram from all parties.
Man left down a frame , company loses a possible few thou in possible future sales possibly. Surely there can not be much more to discuss.

I would like to hope that the situation does get resolved, once the dust has settled.

 

Fascinating thread. My two penn'orth FWIW.

Firstly, as far as I can see On-One honoured the terms of their warranty. I have seen many threads about big manufacturers ducking their responsibilities by using obscure clauses in Ts&Cs to avoid payment/replacement. Granted there seems to have been some kind of recurrent issue with regard to the OP, but given that (to my knowledge) this issue hasn't been replicated with a large number of these frames, it's probably safe to assume that it is a relatively isolated occurrence and may well be related to use, or to the conditions in which the bike is used (it's pretty cold in Finland I believe).

Now I'm no On-One or Planet-X fanboy. I've had my issues with a wheel I tried to buy and I can second the earlier comment about threadbare socks, but a warranty is a warranty and I can pretty much guarantee that none of the "big" manufacturers will go outside of the terms of their warranties. They may offer a gesture, but On-One already did that. For people to suggest that they have been in some way out of order in terms of how they have acted is naivety. They're a business for God's sake. They have to make money. Just because it is mountain biking that we all love and hold dear, it doesn't mean that the companies that supply product should put all business principles to one side. If they did, we would have far fewer suppliers to purchase things from. At the end of the day a warranty is a warranty. If the customer isn't happy with the terms of the warranty then he shouldn't have bought the product in the first place. If he didn't read the Ts&Cs then he should consider that a lesson learned.

With regard to what he paid for the frame, there seem to be a number of comments along the lines of "If it was a £250 frame fine, but this was an £800 one. Different!" Well, it obviously cost more than a £250 456 frame, but it's not a fair comparison. The OP bought a very lightweight XC race frame for £800. Fine that's a big chunk of cash, but the equivalent frame from one of the big guys (or indeed Pivot) would cost anywhere between £1,600 and £2,500. So he made a decision to buy a cheaper alternative to save money. But there is a reason it was cheaper isn't there? If he had wanted the "big manufacturer" guarantee of quality (if indeed, such a thing exists), then I guess he should have shelled out from the outset. To reiterate this frame was significantly cheaper than its contemporary rivals. He knew this and decided to take the risk.

With regard to Brant's comment about "Wasting any more time", that was certainly counter-productive and in fairness he seems to have wised up to that fairly quickly. However, there aren't that many manufacturers out there who have people actively looking to address and resolve customer issues that are aired on social media. I think they should get credit for at least trying to be abreast of the conversations and dealing with issues when they arise.

Finally our "Not fit for purpose" friend. Well, a balanced view on that would possibly be that this particular frame was probably not fit for purpose in the environment within which it was being used. To extrapolate that to say that the company's product range is not fit for purpose and that their QC is rubbish is unfair and quite possibly unwise.

All in all I think that On-One haven't done a huge amount wrong here, though Brant may want to reflect on how flippant remarks may sound to other customers (and potential customers) who may well feel that the definition of customer service is doing all that is fair and reasonable to resolve an issue to a customer's satisfaction, regardless of whether or not they are likely to be a future customer.

Finally I'd be interested to hear from the OP exactly what he wanted from On-One that he feels would have been a satisfactory response to his issue.

EDIT - I've just read this back and it is - if I say so myself - a surprisingly balanced and well reasoned comment. Both for me and for this thread. For that I can only apologise and assure the STW collective that it won't happen again 😉

I would like to hope that the situation does get resolved, once the dust has settled.

I'd like to see more correct use of the quote facility on this website. Sadly, that just seems like a pipe dream to me...

I'm amazed that, even after 8 pages of this, Brant is still behaving in such a curmudgeonly, harrumphy manner! It's almost like he thinks he can recover his company's reputation by apportioning blame to the customer! He can't. Unfortunately, the customer is always right. And when you've taken money off someone, no matter how much it sticks in the craw, you have to be nice to them.

Shibboleth - Member
I would like to hope that the situation does get resolved, once the dust has settled.
I'd like to see more correct use of the quote facility on this website. Sadly, that just seems like a pipe dream to me...
I'm amazed that, even after 8 pages of this, Brant is still behaving in such a curmudgeonly, harrumphy manner! It's almost like he thinks he can recover his company's reputation by apportioning blame to the customer! He can't. Unfortunately, the customer is always right. And when you've taken money off someone, no matter how much it sticks in the craw, you have to be nice to them.
POSTED 5 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

So would I, may be a problem with my central heating. I will just check the thermostat.

There, is that better.

the customer is always right

Wrong.

A longer warranty doesn't necessarily get you any better treatment. I had a Dynatech (part of Raleigh) road bike with a Titanium frame (15 year warranty on the frame). The frame snapped and I sent it off to Raleigh who replaced it with a far heavier steel one saying that they didn't do the original frame any more and that as the price of titanium had gone up they wouldn't replace it with one of their modern titanium frames................

There, is that better.

(dammit, mine's gone too!)

The customer isn't always right but the customer is always the customer.

the customer is always right

Wrong.

Shibboleth - Member
There, is that better.

Perfect. Now we just need to work out where your question mark has gone... Maybe it failed due to those low temperatures. What's the normal operation temperature range of your keyboard
(dammit, mine's gone too!)

I would like to apologise for the absence of my question mark, but, I do not believe in the concept of the question mark.

Just clear up..no I havent said that carbon fibre shouldn't be used in low temp. It should also be noted in both cases is was not the carbon that failed, but the bonding epoxy hildibg the insert into the frame. Resin with a high fibre density is particularly resistant to shrinkage, common bonding epoxy isnt and will alsi get more brittle with cold temps. So it would be feasible that the frame doesn't shrimk in the cold, but the bonding epoxy does and becomes more brittle.now put this with a high stress area like bb or seat post amd it is perfectly feasible that over time the bond will weaken and the insert come loose...ok?

A slight chip on the shoulder?
[url= http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/word-warning-quality-warranty-one-carbon-race-29-frames-901004.html ]in america[/url]

Just out of interest.... To the OP... What drew you to that frame in particular over and above anything else on the market at that time.

A slight chip on the shoulder?

The OP did mention they had posted elsewhere.

I would like to mention here that before starting moaning here at STW, US MTBR-forum and Finnish bicycle forum I told to OO Service that I was very unsatisfied how they handled this case. Then I also mentioned that I will share my experience on different MTB-forums. So this should be no surprise to them but more like a well-judged decision made by their customer/warranty service person.

- [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/word-of-warning-of-the-quality-and-warranty-of-on-one-carbon-race-29-frames/page/3#post-5811044 ]Page 3[/url]

So it would be feasible that the frame doesn't shrimk in the cold, but the bonding epoxy does and becomes more brittle.now put this with a high stress area like bb or seat post amd it is perfectly feasible that over time the bond will weaken and the insert come loose...ok?

So why didn't all the frames fail spectacularly during last year's Milan-San Remo? Or any other race where temperatures are sub zero?

Why have none of my carbon frames (Cervelo, Scott and Giant) failed when I've used them in temperatures down to -10°c? Why haven't they failed when I've stored them indoors at room temperature and then taken them outside and ridden them at below zero?
Why haven't they failed when I've flown them over to Majorca in the freezing hold of a plane, and then jumped on them and ridden them, when the frame is still cold to the touch, in 30° heat?
So many question marks, so little time...

All in all I think that On-One haven't done a huge amount wrong here

Staff or mate?

Another instance of average joe MTBer buying based on perceived value rather than what is a good product, then surprisingly getting stung 🙄

But cheap, buy twice.

It's like when we had endless customers impressed by cubes having an XT rear mech, nevermind the shoddy bb headset chain cassette shifters etc etc. Then getting upset over their headset wearing out in two months after they had been warned.

Just to add a little balance since there seems to be criticism flying in from all directions on this one:

I have some on one socks and they have performed well, been worn a lot and are still hole-free (apart from the one, obviously). I may even buy some more.

Finally I'd be interested to hear from the OP exactly what he wanted from On-One that he feels would have been a satisfactory response to his issue.

OP, I would like to know this too? You threatened to vent on this forum and have done so. Is that it, or had you hoped by posting you could get some further traction with On-One?

Brant's comments would be unacceptable on a official company email, letter or phone call, but on social media, not so. Are you brant / On-One here, or Brant first who just happens to work for On-One? Hence why should he state he was from On-one? I had no idea who Brant was, but after too long lurking on here, I could deduce a link soon enough. Having identified this site to post on, perhaps with a little more googling the OP could have deduced this link here too, and "reached" out to Brant.

If the warranty option has expired as you suggest and you were looking for a gesture of goodwill, trashing the company is unlikely to generate a favourable and willing response. If indeed, that is what you wanted.

So in summary, an olive branch was offered but rejected (perhaps in ignorance), and then clumsily retracted. OP, maybe you want to take up the second olive branch that has been extended rather than p*ss on it and perhaps Brant will be more willing to resolve your issue?

Looks like Brant has, and given the way this thread went probably unsurprisingly so, abandoned this thread and looks to be doing the right thing* over on [url= http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/word-warning-quality-warranty-one-carbon-race-29-frames-901004-post11028919.html#post11028919 ]MTBR[/url].

Hopefully a satisfactory resolution is reached.

*After an initial PR wobble 8)

What happened between page 3 & 8?

Anyway, I side with the for on one and in favour of Brant argument.

Every time I phone on one their customer service is top notch.

This thread reminded me why I stopped working in retail/sales.

If you don't believe the customer is always right, you shouldn't be responsible for customer service.

What happened between page 3 & 8?

Shibboleth.

Shib..it takes time for bonding to fail...in the hold of a plane for example..shrinkage may occur..however the frame and compnents are not being subject to repeat stress cycles from use and riding so the bond doesnt get stressed when its weak..similarly with a race envrironment in sub zero..thise frames will be used hard...for short duratikns and then retired...most race frames wont be used for more than a season so again not an issue that is likey to appear in a short time..not so many question matks in a short time..just you displaying a massive inability to grasp basic behaviours of materials. All composites and resins have perfoemance tolerances that chamge with higj temp low temp.chemical attack and stress cycles..hence why there is such a strong inspection and ndt regieme in all industrial uses of composte materials and bonding agents including jn aircraft, chemical storage systems and structural bonding agents... now would yoy like me to do some little drawings and maybe an animation using a small.monkey and tube of smarties to make it easier to grasp? * and this is why I stick to talking about boobs and beer with single speeders. ..*

should also be noted that similar bonding fail has happened within my riding group on sdg carbon I beam seat posts on bikes used for hard winter riding in sub zero conditions last year where the heads came out of the carbon tubes due to bond degradation (gave to a mate who is a materials scientist to play with)

With regard to my "wasting time" comment, the OP indicated he was finished with us, and on that basis there's little point in persuing. However I do want to work with our faithful customers

You might also want to consider the impact of your unpleasant tone on people who might not currently be customers, but are thinking about buying one of your products.

Think I must be one of the odd one's out who chuckled at Brants "wasting time" comment. I've dealt with Brant on the phone and actually prefer his no bullshit straight to the point attitude better than some of the smarmy attitudes of other companies.

tazzymtb - Member

Shib... [white noise] sssssssssssssssssssssssscsccccccccccccccccccccccccchhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
sscccccccccccccccccccccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhccccccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhwwwwwwww
wwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr [/white noise]

Yawn 🙄

Probably more to the point, if OO's customer approach was up to snuff, Brant wouldn't need to feel he needs to sort it out every time. Even Brant cannot be a miracle worker it seems, although I have heard of excellent attempts of his.

I know I've had run ins, and don't really care anymore. There are other shops, so I use them.

Cue more posts about how "I've worked in retail and you found like a nightmare customer"...

lol @ shib, you have just basically shown that science and reason have no part in you world view..are you a creationist...or even worse..a graphic designer..?

And that's where we put this thread to sleep.