[Closed] Word of warning of the quality and warranty of On-One Carbon Race 29-frames

To be fair, you are not meant to put adhesive stickers on safety helmets either as the solvents in adhesive can cause premature failure (depending on the adhesive composition) ..so slapping stickers all over plastic and resin components is always a good game of russian roulette

I assume from many sent messages that I should know who Brant is, but I do not know.

Brant is a big wheel down at the cracker factory. The head honcho, the big cheese....el chupacabra!

OP had sympathy with you up to this point. No longer, OO honour warranty but replacement fails and you threaten blackmail? - I'd tell you flip right off.

Easy tiger. Where did he do that?

[quote=thestabiliser ]OP had sympathy with you up to this point. No longer, OO honour warranty but replacement fails and you threaten blackmail? - I'd tell you flip right off.

He told them what he was going to do. He did it. Seems like a promise kept rather than blackmail. In any case, hiding behind the letter of the law here is a shitty customer experience. They warrantied the first frame for roughly the same problem so it's a bit rich to say "Oh, it doesn't count for the second one"

would like to mention here that before starting moaning here at STW, US MTBR-forum and Finnish bicycle forum I told to OO Service that I was very unsatisfied how they handled this case. Then I also mentioned that I will share my experience on different MTB-forums

There

We need a "What radiator for garage holding carbon bikes ?" thread

perhaps they should do extended warranties. that would solve a lot of whinging.

I don't see what the issue is, guys said he didn't like their customer service and would be making sure others knew about it. Fair enough.

Then I also mentioned that I will share my experience on different MTB-forums

I'm not sure I would class that as blackmail. As he didn't say he would do X if O-O didn't do Y. He just stated he is going to have a moan, as he wasn't happy.

IANAL.

Does the Sale of Goods act apply for Finland too Ransos?

As far as I know, yes, because it's a UK contract. In any case, Finland is a member of the EU, and there is harmonised consumer law in all EU countries, including fitness for purpose.

OK blackmail is a bit OTT but it's a threat of sorts, based on give me a new frame or I'll bad mouth you.

I'd be me miffed if my frame had done that but to expect a new one outside the warranty is optimistic to say the least, a contribution to reapir or a good will gesture certainly but a new frame? Really?

OK blackmail is a bit OTT but it's a threat of sorts, based on give me a new frame or I'll bad mouth you.

That's not what he said he told them he'd be telling people about the service he received as he was unhappy with it. You know a bit like Tripadvisor.

As far as I know, yes, because it's a UK contract. In any case, Finland is a member of the EU, and there is harmonised consumer law in all EU countries, including fitness for purpose.

I'm not sure about the first bit as that surely would only apply for UK customers. The second bit seems to make sense but I'm sure they'll be certain conditions to it too.

I am not looking for sympathy and not expect OO to change their warranty policies at all. I would like just to share my experience about On-One with my fellow riders, who are in a situation to decide, which company's frame/bike to purchase using their hard earned money!

Not everybody is in a luxorious situation just to purchase a new frame when the previous one just breaks down after every one and half year use.

Funny to hear the word blackmail here - for me it was just that I openly told them what will be my action based on their decision. Free world - free choice of actions - on their side and mine!

Would you really want a replacement frame from a company that have supplied you two and both have failed? I wouldn't.

Probably best to suck it up, move on, buy a decent quality frame and put it down to experience.

Ok, so we can all agree that thestabiliser is completely wrong, and he should go and sit on the naughty step? 😉

So the OP is moving onto a frame that probably costs twice as much as the on-one (or maybe 3 times, possibly 4 if you hit the on-one sales at the right time) and comes with a 3 year warranty with lots of caveats.

[url= http://www.pivotcycles.com/tech/getPage/24-warranty-statement ]http://www.pivotcycles.com/tech/getPage/24-warranty-statement[/url]

frying pan to fire?

[edit] although the no fault replacement charge looks liek mroe than 10% off.

It may be black and white from a warranty standpoint but there is a lot of grey on the moral front IMO.

Poor form from On One and if the OP really came on to air his views without looking to shame OO into a replacement then fair play to him.

FTR, I have a Pompetamine frame. It's pretty good at doing what I want from it but it cost me £140 new. If it fell apart one day after the warranty expired I wouldn't be particularly upset. If I'd paid £800 for a frame I'd probably feel different though.

I'm not sure about the first bit as that surely would only apply for UK customers. The second bit seems to make sense but I'm sure they'll be certain conditions to it too.

I only had a quick look, but couldn't see an exemption under SOGA for exports.

My 2p...
- The failures of the frames would embarrass me if I was involved with selling or manufacturing them. In OnOne's postion I'd do all I could to sort them so that the customer is happy, regardless of warranty policies.

- Customer has a whinge on here. Suddenly Brant appears and say he'll look into it. Customer announces he has no intention of spending more money with them. OneOne (or Brant) basically tells the customer that in that case they're not interested in sorting it after all. Looks more like an attempt to save face publicly than any real concern for the customer who has already spent good money with them.

Struggling to see why the OP gets no sympathy or OnOne any credit in this.

I'm not sure I would class that as blackmail.

Blackmail would have been "replace my frame or I'll tell STW", what he did say was "you haven't replaced my frame, so I'm telling STW". Maybe that could be construed as a last ditch attempt to get some goodwill from them under duress, but really it's just a statement.

And really, it's a fine line, is "cough up a new frame or I'll take you to court" blackmail? Court procedings would be recorded and available for the public to read. So even if he had threatened to post on forums if he didn't get his way, it's just skipping the middleman. The result of posting on STW still relies on 'winning' popular opinion, if everyone said he was in the wrong O-O's reputation would be intact. As it is, oppinions seems to be that it's not crash damaged or had a hard life, it's a design/manufacturing issue. So some goodwill might be expected.

I only had a quick look, but couldn't see an exemption under SOGA for exports.

Did you see the bit where it states after 6 months it's up to the buyer to prove it was a fault of the product and also that Scotland has different Laws to England and Wales, if Scotland can I guess Finland certain will. However, I guess you mean the European Directive which states 2 years but as it's passed that then they are meeting that too.

Seems a shame they couldn't offer something else but looks like lethsj wasn't interested in a frame anyway and as they aren't going to offer a refund I'm not sure what he expected.

I feel let down by this thread.

How about we have a group hug, matey gets a bung, everyone's a winner, cushty.

Go on, I love a happy ending.

Already backed away from the blackmail bit. SO you're not getting me on that.

TINAS - I don't think we need a court case to know O-O customer service is pap. They did make a goodwill gesture - a pretty shitty one mind. A better one would have been get it sorted and send us the bill blah blah but we don't know waht the OP would have settled for.

OP, what would have been a satisfactory result to your warranty claim?

Just for ballance, I don't think there customer service is crap, whenever I've had to use it, it's been fine. But I don't send much back, a lot I've just written off as, 'it was a £3 pair of gloves, or £10 headset, what did I expect?'

If I'd paid £800 for a frame I'd probably feel slightly different. I'd excpect the same sort of CS as the bigger brands.

Did you see the bit where it states after 6 months it's up to the buyer to prove it was a fault of the product and also that Scotland has different Laws to England and Wales, if Scotland can I guess Finland certain will. However, I guess you mean the European Directive which states 2 years but as it's passed that then they are meeting that too.

I think the EU two-year limit refers to the right of a consumer to return goods without them having to prove the fault - arguably we're not compliant in the UK. Don't forget that the frame was purchased in the UK - as far as I can see, the SOGA applies because the frame was purchased in this country.

The funny thing here is that guess which frame I ride now before putting my Pivot LES together - On One Lurcher! I purchased it last year with very good price 299 euros (about £260) for a spare frame. If that breaks down after two years warranty I can assure that you will not see me moaning here - £260 vs. £800 makes quite a big difference; at least for me.

Also before this case happened (On One's feedback to my latest quality complaint) I was very seriously considering to order Planet X Track bike to my son.

So I was their loyal customer for some years (several orders).

Don't forget that the frame was purchased in the UK - as far as I can see, the SOGA applies because the frame was purchased in this country.

Now that's not true he ordered it from the UK but he's in Finland so isn't covered by UK Law is how I see it.

Now that's not true he ordered it from the UK but he's in Finland so isn't covered by UK Law is how I see it.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/can-i-return-an-item-bought-from-another-eu-country

"When you buy goods or services from a trader based in another EU country, [b]some of your rights could depend on the laws of that country.[/b]

Some consumer rights laws are the same across the EU, for example the Distance Selling Regulations, but others depend on the legislation of a particular country, for example the Sale of Goods Act. "

So, someone in Finland purchasing a frame from the UK should be protected under SOGA.

I'll not waste any more time on it then.

Cheers.

I find that comment absolutely appalling! I'm with the OP on this, he has every right to share his experiences of a product that's not fit for purpose.

I've never bought an On-One frame - although I've been a regular buyer of parts and accessories for several years - but on the basis of that comment, I won't be buying from them again and I would certainly dissuade any of my biking friends from buying from them too.

What an arrogant twunt!

What an arrogant twunt!

So, someone in Finland purchasing a frame from the UK should be protected under SOGA.

'Could' and 'Some' it's not for certain which is my point you can't quote to use the Sale of Goods Act as it may not be relevant.

the OPs previous comment did kind of make any attempts at rectifying the situation a bit pointless.

The OP gave On One the opportunity to sort it out to his satisfaction twice. The first time they fulfilled a legal obligation and sent him another crap frame. The second time they've washed their hands of it.

Personally, I'm thankful that their is a forum like this where people can share those sorts of experiences and help consumers like myself decide where to spend our hard-earned money.

Can't believe how many sycophants there are on here, eager to blow smoke up the arse of Brant!

WARNING! Someone hasn't had their dinner yet and are getting angry behind their keyboard.

No problem with Brant's comments over here. It may not look great, but it seemed obvious that the OP wasn't going to change his mind or be happy with the outcome so why waste time and money on it. Better to worry about the customers you can still keep than ones that are lost forever...

'Could' and 'Some' it's not for certain which is my point you can't quote to use the Sale of Goods Act as it may not be relevant.

The article was quite clear: EU law always applies, but there may be additional protection, if such a law exists in the country you purchased the goods from. The SOGA is one such law, which is why it applies.

Yeah, I wouldn't have phrased it like that probably, but I'd have been thinking the same as Brant. He offered to look into it and maybe sort the problem out, the OP continued to slag off On-One. That'd make me disinclined to go over and above the warranty terms as well.

That'd make me disinclined to go over and above the warranty terms as well.

Warranty terms do not necessarily cover legal responsibilities. I also note that On-One were given a chance to rectify the situation before the OP appeared here.

I'm sorry you feel like that, and it's a shame that you feel let down by our warranty terms. Obviously, if you would still like to discuss this, please contact me directly at.....

A more polite way to close it.

The OP has already had an crap experience with On One before he posted on here. He's already been told they won't do anything which they don't legally have to, but I'd be pissed off if I'd bought a frame that turned out to be such poor quality.

He posted on here to share his experience and warn others that On One frames are not fit for purpose. In doing so, he's convinced me never to touch one of their bikes with a bargepole, but Brant's arrogant and unprofessional response has convinced me to never buy any other parts or accessories from them ever again.

I'll not waste any more time on it then.
Cheers.

I find that comment absolutely appalling!

Really? How do you even make through each day?
🙂

I hope those hoping for their lifetime warranty on their Specialized know that they consider 5 years to be lifetime like most of the big guys...

I don't have any problem getting through the day Mark, last time I looked, "appalled" isn't a debilitating condition.

🙄

they consider 5 years to be lifetime like most of the big guys...

That's 2-and-a-half times better than On One's...

I can't comment on On One's warranty, never having owned one, but when it comes to warranty, in my experience Turner are arguably the go to company. They have been brilliant to deal with when I broke my 5 Spot. Regular communication, they paid for the postage of a new frame from the US, gave me the opportunity to chose another model - all good!

I'd also add ISON, Silverfish and 2Pure to the list of really good companies to deal with.

Cheers

Sanny

bencooper - Member

Yeah, I wouldn't have phrased it like that probably, but I'd have been thinking the same as Brant. He offered to look into it and maybe sort the problem out, the OP continued to slag off On-One.

Remember though that most people don't know who Brant is- to the OP he's just another dude posting on the thread, rather than it being a recognisable offer to fix things. If Brant doesn't make that clear to the OP, how is it going to make any difference? After all he's already exhausted all the channels On One have offered and came into the thread thinking "That's that done with, here's where we are".

After all he's already exhausted all the channels On One have offered and came into the thread thinking "That's that done with, here's where we are".

To be fair, OP didn't know who Brant was before they all got shirty. Perhaps if he knew who Brant was and that 'looking at it' meant that someone from On-One was involved, he may have toned things down a bit.

Edit, what Ben said!!!

Just to pick this up...

I've been involved in extended discussions with our customer service team this morning, about how we can handle similar situations better in future.

With regard to my "wasting time" comment, the OP indicated he was finished with us, and on that basis there's little point in persuing. However I do want to work with our faithful customers to give them extended value in the event of an out of warranty frame failure.

With regard to my "wasting time" comment, the OP indicated he was finished with us, and on that basis there's little point in persuing. However I do want to work with our faithful customers to give them extended value in the event of an out of warranty frame failure.

You say us, but the OP was unaware that you were related to On-One in a senior capacity. Maybe if you had made it clear who you were, and asked whether the OP would like to give you one more chance to rectify things, then the OP may have responded differently.

...or maybe not. Who knows.

Really? How do you even make through each day?

Perhaps by being polite to people and acting professionally in his job?

Bit of an over reaction statement to someone being "appalled". I was pretty appalled by the car that nearly ran me over this morning when it jumped through the red light, but I am gettign through the day ok.

Got to be a bit careful saying things like " not fit for purpose" about a product, in a public forum without suitbale and sufficient evidemce to back it up. One persons, one sided account of an incident, whilst unfortunate does most certainly not render the designs and manufacturing on an item as not fit for purpose.in addition the frames will have passed the relevant cen/en testing protocols.

I know it hinders your flair for dramtic histrionic posts, but do try and keep to the facts.

Bloke buys frame...frame fails within warranty period.....company fulfils its legal requirements. ..frame goes again outside of legal warranty period...bloke wants a magic fix...company give an offer...bloke not happy and sulks on line....lots of people with no idea of the legalities of warranty law add some clouding about how it should be in a fluffy non commercial world...and some gets sand in their vejayjay about the fact that all on carbon frames will kill you, destroy the planet and shag your misses when you are not looking

I love this place 🙂

Warranties don't extend when a replacement is provided.

No, but they should start afresh on the replacement, surely.

Kinda annoying that you speak to warranty department and they tell you to do one, pop up on social media or the right forum and it gets fixed (not just O-O, not by a long shot)

*he may have been joking

Also, the OP was a faithful customer until this situation changed his opinion.
Why not work with him like you would with all the rest?

Bit of an over reaction statement to someone being "appalled".

However I do want to work with our faithful customers to give them extended value in the event of an out of warranty frame failure.

By offering a very small discount on a replacement for an expensive frame that failed after little more than two years?

Faith works both ways...

If on-one, following 'extended discussions', have now concluded that they would handle this situation differently in future, why not reach out to this guy again? It's fairly obvious he wouldn't be spending any more of his hard-earned with on-one, if even you are conceding that the customer service wasn't ideal. So it's hardly an excommunication offence to say so in a post.

He's just an unhappy customer. Most businesses have them from time to time. Some of them have justified anger, some are undeserving, but it's instructive for everyone else how they get dealt with.

My spidey senses are telling me there is doings afoot behind the scenes.

However I do want to work with our faithful customers to give them extended value in the event

At that time when I sent my message, to which it has been referred here, I was not having a slightest idea, who this Bran is. Is he just one of STW's regular member or some head honcho of On One? He was not introducing himself to me nor he has not sent me any emails on behalf o On One.

With regard to my "wasting time" comment, the OP indicated he was finished with us, and on that basis there's little point in persuing. However I do want to work with our faithful customers to give them extended value in the event of an out of warranty frame failure.

You say us, but the OP was unaware that you were related to On-One in a senior capacity. Maybe if you had made it clear who you were, and asked whether the OP would like to give you one more chance to rectify things, then the OP may have responded differently.

+1 Jamie. Looked like a very empty post from you Brant. The OP didn't have a clue who you were so to slam the door again so quickly looks like a hollow gesture.

Perhaps by being polite to people

Hmmmm! Perhaps not given his attitude to something that didn't involve him towards another forum member.

Is it me or is On-Ones warranty department(and marketing, and web descriptions, and stock updates, and designing - I suspect he cleans the bogs and does the accounts as well) run by brant, on social media as the way of communicating?
.
I even found this picture of On-Ones company day out, with the whole staff team in attendance. 😉
[img] [/img]

At that time when I sent my message, to which it has been referred here, I was not having a slightest idea, who this Bran is. Is he just one of STW's regular member or some head honcho of On One? He was not introducing himself to me nor he has not sent me any emails on behalf o On One.

Brant is On-One, a guy called Dave set up Planet-X in the 90's, Brant was a magazine editor and wanted to make MTB's, I think he designed ther website in return for Planet-X setting up On-One, which he then ran from a shed in the bottom of his garden.

One day the shed caught fire, so Brant set up a company called shedfire which did design work, he left P-X and did some work for Ragely and Nukeproof amongst others (which were kinda like On-One and Titus, but owned by CRC/Hotlines).

He's now back doing stuff with P-X/O-O.

[i]I've been involved in extended discussions with our customer service team this morning, about how we can handle similar situations better in future.[/i]

Awesome, awaits email from Sue telling me she sourced the 'wee plastic bit' I need. It was my fault I lost it so I'll pay up 🙂

And below is proof positive that there are no Brant/On-One fanboys round here 🙂

[i]Brant is On-One, a guy called Dave set up Planet-X in the 90's, Brant was a magazine editor and wanted to make MTB's, I think he designed ther website in return for Planet-X setting up On-One, which he then ran from a shed in the bottom of his garden.

One day the shed caught fire, so Brant set up a company called shedfire which did design work, he left P-X and did some work for Ragely and Nukeproof amongst others (which were kinda like On-One and Titus, but owned by CRC/Hotlines).

He's now back doing stuff with P-X/O-O. [/i]

[i]reach out to this guy again[/i]

is this an American forum now?

we phone people, email or write them a letter in this country.

last thing I want is brant reaching out to (or around) me.

hopefully this incident will form a part of the ongoing Planet-X quest to improve customer service and responsiveness.

Reach out is an Americanism that actually makes sense - it means getting in touch in a conciliatory way, rather than shouting at him down the phone for five minutes. I can see why it hasn't entirely caught on in Yorkshire, mind you. 🙂

Perhaps if replacements received a fresh new full warranty period that might force manufacturers to sort out any inherent product design or manufacturing flaws?

The issue then though of course is how to identify whether the failure is from misuse and shouldn't be covered. Especially when you've got people willing to break things deliberately to try and exploit the possibility of a new frame. I guess that's possibly how the current legal position has come about, despite the sense many of us have that it often doesn't seem right.

I wasn't too impressed with Brant's flippant comment either given that he's known to represent the company and a forum is public. I don't care too much obviously, it's minor, but little by little the negatives mount up in a far more persistent way than the positives.

I can see why it hasn't entirely caught on in Yorkshire, mind you.

It doesn't really work if there's only one phone in the village.

Perhaps if replacements received a fresh new full warranty period that might force manufacturers to sort out any inherent product design or manufacturing flaws?

Naaa, if the magin was (say) 30%, then replacement frames are costing the manufacturer half the manufacturing cost (the other half being the original profit). And that's not including paying anyones wages to sell it in the first place or deal with returns.

Brant is On-One

I've been involved in extended discussions with our customer service team this morning, about how we can handle similar situations better in future.

And lolz at Gary_M

Am I in an alternative universe? People on the internet dictating that someone should give the OP a new frame FOC? Under what pretences? Why dictate that they should 'go the extra mile' because someone on a keyboard tells them its the right thing to do?

Balance folks, I've critised OO/PX in the past (on a jumper logo printed upside down) - but that was a clear 'basic' customer service response on what I feel should have been done. I worked for years in retail, have it in my veins and I don't think sending yet another frame is the right approach. Unless its a known QC failure point in a batch/design then you'd offer a different product as goodwill.

I'll reiterate, we've no idea how the OP stores his bike(s), where he rides, his build (fork length), etc etc so offering new FOC kit outside of (generous) 2yr warranty isn't above and beyond, it'd be daft. Especially as the chap then goes on to slag off the brand on a forum.

How many products on the high street that get bashed about/gritted up/power-washed and abused routinely come with a 2yr warranty?

FORGET Specialized (tossers). They aren't beyond reproach.

I'd remove the 'C' from FOC and explain what the acronym means to the OP.

(and this is coming from me who loves to wind Brant up and of course him and his 'hora clangers').

Perhaps by being polite to people

its not like mark has history is this area.
Anyone remember FFC?

 

Images of Brant sitting on the pot muttering to himself are now stuck in my mind.

I think you're thinking of Neil, Fruit and Tango and the suerstrar, KS customer services and warrenty departments.

I'll reiterate, we've no idea how the OP stores his bike(s), where he rides, his build (fork length), etc etc so offering new FOC kit outside of (generous) 2yr warranty isn't above and beyond, it'd be daft. Especially as the chap then goes on to slag off the brand on a forum.

How many products on the high street that get bashed about/gritted up/power-washed and abused routinely come with a 2yr warranty?

FORGET Specialized (tossers). They aren't beyond reproach.

I'd remove the 'C' from FOC and explain what the acronym means to the OP.

Nice and adult attitude from you! If you really look the pictures from my first message carefully enough it could be reasonable easy to understand that this is clearly a QC failure case (or actually two of those).

Below you'll see how my build was when it was still alive and kicking! And the bike was always stored in the warm storage building.

[img] [/img]

So do you know now enough? Or do you still want to teach me what FO means?

Good thread this one, Good thread. Thanks to all involved, improved my lunch hour.

Am I in an alternative universe?

I'd remove the 'C' from FOC and explain what the acronym means to the OP.

...and you were doing so well.*

*You wasn't really. No-one is stating the OP should have a FOC replacement.

"above and beyond/do the right thing"?

Oh and the bighitters have arrived. 🙄

QC failure case

Surely a QC item would fail well within the second case of 1.5yrs unless you only rode it a handful of times?

Anyone else notice the photograph showing a chain device fitted to the 'race' light frame..? Two, or two and a half years ago, that would be an unusual addition to this sort of bike and implies heavier use. I'm with Brant on this one. Duty has now been done and at least some responsibility lies with the OP.
Having once broken an Inbred frame (and taken it on the chin), I remain a happy enough buyer of O-O product. I'd not dream of putting the OP's carbon frame through the kind of use that I would a steel frame though. Those frames were light for a reason!
And I've had worse customer service than this from Silverfish over broken Cove frames- two broken Hustlers, now replaced by a G-spot that seems to finally be up to the harsh Scottish climate!

@ D0NK .... I'm not a 'chancer'. I was illustrating a point as to why warranties might not restart upon each replacement frame. If I bust a frame out of warranty, I would be jolly impressed with myself that I had actually ridden the bloody thing enough to break it.

I don't think anyone is telling On-One / Brant what they should or shouldn't do. People are just expressing some sympathy or empathy with the OP and suggesting that if the same happened to them, they too wouldn't be happy.

On the On One side - they can of course quite rightly stick to the absolute terms of the warranty. Or they can accept that doing so may not paint a particularly great product quality / customer service picture and see if they can find some way to keep that customer happy and to generate some good PR in the process.

None of us know all the factors that may or may not have contributed to the failure of the frame or whether those factors could be considered as reasonable or as unreasonable treatment.

There is no absolute right or wrong here but it would appear that there is an opportunity to come to some sort of arrangement that keeps all parties happy (or at least a happier than they currently are).

DB

duckman - Member
However I do want to work with our faithful customers to give them extended value in the event

Excuse my cheeky selevective cut and paste
Well as one of you loyal customers, I also need the little plastic barrel adjusters that fit into the top of the cnc brakes, I would happily pay for them as well.

I'll go have a look. If Sue tried, she would have tried. She's ace is Sue.

Anyone else notice the photograph showing a chain device fitted to the 'race' light frame..? Two, or two and a half years ago, that would be an unusual addition to this sort of bike and implies heavier use. I'm with Brant on this one.

You're not. I can see the OP's point. I think we could do better than offer just 10% off something, and I'm just working out a fair framework for doing that, to avoid people accidentally driving over frames because they fancy a new one (we've had it happen).

Perfectly fair to mount a chain guide on there. His bike looks awesome.

Looking are the photo, it all makes sense now. The frames broke because he was running a RoRo on the back and a RaRa on the front.... Very non-conformist and a certifiable way to make a carbon frame explode in front of your eyes. Brant will surely back me up on this.